Cena or JBL?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Total record: 18-4-1 (two losses were handicap matches, another had Orton going over to build Summerslam, last one had La Resistance going over to pop the Quebec crowd).

 

Record against Evolution in any form: 12-2 (one match handicap, other had Orton going over to build Summerslam).

 

You don't see a problem with this?

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

Even though you don't enjoy it, judging by his reactions, more than immature 13 year olds find it funny. It might seen stupid on paper, but it works.

That's my point. The older fans are retards with no taste.

By that, you mean the loyal fanbase who've been there the whole time?

I mean the retards who cheer for him as a face, and the retarded face things he does to be "cool".

[what 0]

Anyone who says Benoit was presented strongly must not have watched must Raw last year.

 

It was undenyable when the focus for the Benoit/HHH Vengeance match was on Eugene not on Benoit that he was being booked as a second tier champion.

[Guest Ransome]

If both challengers don't win, WrestleMania will be a disaster.

Again, it would be bad business for both to win. JBL's title reign is approaching 10 months (!), and they need to continually hammer home the point that ending the reign is a big f'n deal. It would simply be a waste to give it away in the middle of WM. Sure, they changed titles midcard with Savage at WM 8, but he had already been an established star and former world champ, while this would be Cena's first major win - they'll only get one shot at to get it right. It has to be on a night where the spotlight is *solely* on Cena; can you imagine his first title win ending with Michael Cole's whiny voice saying "Oh my! John Cena is our new world champ!" and then seeing the video package for the Triple H-Batista match, at which point the viewers realise what they've watched was only a temporary distraction for the 'real' main event?

 

I realise, of course, it would suck for the live crowd on WM night when Cena gets pinned, but they've booked themselves into a bit of a corner with this one. They're going to have to be creative. Ideally, Cena would emerge from this match stronger than before and with an even greater hunger for the title.

 

As exhaustingly often as they've used the main event run-in lately, external interference from the Cabinet is gonna have to play some part in the WM match. Cena could realise he was brash to take on the entire stable at once, and proceed to spend the following weeks dismantling each member of the Cabinet one by one. Finally JBL is then left to face Cena alone, without any of the help he has relied on for every other main event, and be swiftly defeated.

 

Either way, they've botched the rest of JBL's reign, so they can at least try and salvage the end of his reign by using it to greatly elevate Cena. To do that, they have to be patient, even if they crowd at WM reacts against it.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Even though you don't enjoy it, judging by his reactions, more than immature 13 year olds find it funny. It might seen stupid on paper, but it works.

That's my point. The older fans are retards with no taste.

By that, you mean the loyal fanbase who've been there the whole time?

I mean the retards who cheer for him as a face, and the retarded face things he does to be "cool".

 

Dude, you're proving me right with each post. You and a lot of the internet refuse, kicking and screaming all the way, to enjoy things that might actually MAKE MONEY and DRAW FANS, which are the two manifest functions of everything in a wrestling program, just because YOU don't like or understand it. As I said, it's really a matter of thinking relatively and opening your mind instead of pissing and moaning about things that are helping prolong the financial and practical health of your pastime of professional wrestling, something you presumably enjoy greatly or else you wouldn't be here. I'm tempted to just use the quick (and most correct) fix and say "buncha white boys don't get it," but this is a problem that extends to way more than Cena's current character.

 

Whether it's genius storylines and ****+ emotional matches or dumb shit and garbage brawls, I'm for anything that will draw. It shows that they're doing something right and leaves the door open for other things being done correctly and a general blossoming of product quality again if all the pieces fall into place. Still, before the other things can add on, you have to have that first bit that draws interest and eventually money. Cena's showing some ability to do what others have failed to do, so I'm all for him being put into the position he is now, and I'm damn sure for anything that will further enhance his character and in turn make fans more interested in him. What's going to grab a casual viewer (the true lifeblood of a boom period), seeing a couple'a guys having a 20-minute technical tour de force (nothing wrong with that at all) or some dude ripping a guy apart with a freestyle rap, spinning his belt ("A SPINNER WRESTLING BELT? Holy shit dude, keep it here, I've gotta see this guy"), and then beating him with a few signature moves that play to the crowd like nuts?

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

Of course he draws fans and can make a fuckload of money. But his fans are retards. I watch WWE as a comedy/wrestling show. Cena isn't funny, and sucks as a wrestler.

 

You and a lot of the internet refuse, kicking and screaming all the way, to enjoy things that might actually MAKE MONEY and DRAW FANS

I don't refuse anything. I agree he'll make money and draw, but why should I enjoy something that bores me?

[Art Sandusky 0]

You just said you don't want to enjoy it because it's boring to you. I think that's a refusal.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

You just said you don't want to enjoy it because it's boring to you. I think that's a refusal.

I don't refuse he'll make money and draw.

 

"You and a lot of the internet refuse, kicking and screaming all the way, to enjoy things"

 

I can't help that I have good taste. I'm not gonna make myself like something that sucks.

[Art Sandusky 0]

You refuse to enjoy him despite his ability to make money and draw, which is a oft-used reason to not like people. Then you mask your inability to understand the character by saying you have good taste. This probably means that you think wrestling is very serious business and crafting cerebral material with sensational matches will lead to a new golden era, which it won't.

 

Whatever, I'm not going any further. This'll get worse (and turn into a tired smark/anti-smark argument) before it gets better.

[alfdogg 0]

And I'm sure that would have nothing to do with your use of the term "smark nerds" twice on the last page of this thread!

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

You refuse to enjoy him despite his ability to make money and draw.

Why should I like someone because of that?

 

Then you mask your inability to understand the character by saying you have good taste.

I do understand it. It's still retarded, just like John.

 

This probably means that you think wrestling is very serious business

HA! I never take wrestling seriously. It's just...a TV program.

 

crafting cerebral material with sensational matches will lead to a new golden era, which it won't.

I would be happy if Snitsky .VS. Heidenreich, main evented WrestleMania.

[Secret Agent 0]

If Cena did win everyone would think Batista is about to loose anyway, so i think they'd be surprised to see Dave win as well.

 

Anyway, the Cabinet could just beat the holy hell out of Cena backstage, before the match making him fairly easy for JBL to beat without a problem.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

They could still have Cena win earlier and put him in the spotlight at the end of the show by having him and Batista celebrate their Title wins together(like Benoit & Eddie last year), with the theme being that the "new generation" has arrived.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Oooooooh, I like that. Have Orton and Benjamin and Haas and the young dudes come out and celebrate. Then have Undertaker (as the biggest face that's part of the old guard) come out and raise their hands or whatever, pointing at them and saying they're #1 and all that, just to hammer it home.

 

I'd like it even more if they actually followed through with such a symbolic statement and kept the philosophy going.

[iggymcfly 0]

You know what would be awesome? If Cena won the title in the middle of the show, Batista won the real main event, and then when Cena came out to celebrate, Batista just powerbombed the shit out of him because he's tight like that.

 

I'd mark out hardcore for that. I mean if Smackdown's gonna be the B-show, they might as well just go all the way with it.

 

I can just hear JR in the background: "That egomaniacal bastard John Cena tried to steal Batista's spotlight, but Batista powerbombed him straight to hell!"

[Si82 0]

You know what would be awesome? If Cena won the title in the middle of the show, Batista won the real main event, and then when Cena came out to celebrate, Batista just powerbombed the shit out of him because he's tight like that.

 

I'd mark out hardcore for that. I mean if Smackdown's gonna be the B-show, they might as well just go all the way with it.

 

I can just hear JR in the background: "That egomaniacal bastard John Cena tried to steal Batista's spotlight, but Batista powerbombed him straight to hell!"

That would be awesome.

 

However, I doubt JR would do that. It always seems to me that Michael Cole and Tazz are the guys who bash the competition, in this case Raw.

 

Take the Royal Rumble from 2004 when Brock Lesnar came in an gave Goldberg the F5. Tazz started going on about how Goldberg deserved it and "big ups" to Lensar. What exacly had Goldberg done to deserve it?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

You know what would be awesome? If Cena won the title in the middle of the show, Batista won the real main event, and then when Cena came out to celebrate, Batista just powerbombed the shit out of him because he's tight like that.

 

I'd mark out hardcore for that. I mean if Smackdown's gonna be the B-show, they might as well just go all the way with it.

 

I can just hear JR in the background: "That egomaniacal bastard John Cena tried to steal Batista's spotlight, but Batista powerbombed him straight to hell!"

That would be awesome.

 

However, I doubt JR would do that. It always seems to me that Michael Cole and Tazz are the guys who bash the competition, in this case Raw.

 

Take the Royal Rumble from 2004 when Brock Lesnar came in an gave Goldberg the F5. Tazz started going on about how Goldberg deserved it and "big ups" to Lensar. What exacly had Goldberg done to deserve it?

Had the unmitigated gall to make fun of Lesnar at SSeries and earlier that night in the backstage segment at the Rumble.

[Guest bigm350]

From May, the main focus of Raw was Hunter and HBK. From mid-June to SummerSlam the main focus was Hunter and Eugene. In both cases, those storylines were treated as the most important thing, and given top billing. Benoit, for all the wins he got, was either treated as a bit player in those scenarios, or given his own little deal that was presented below the 'real' stars'. Even when Benoit was put with Orton it was never presented as the most important thing on Raw.

 

Any World Champion treated in such a manner won't draw, because he isn't the person being put in the position to draw.

 

What don't people get about such a simple concept ?

This makes perfect sense to me. Even when HHH wasn't the champ, he was still the featured guy on Raw. Anybody who would argue this hasn't been watching Raw, or keeping up with the current product.

[Guest Brian]

Take the Royal Rumble from 2004 when Brock Lesnar came in an gave Goldberg the F5. Tazz started going on about how Goldberg deserved it and "big ups" to Lensar. What exacly had Goldberg done to deserve it?

Well, he is Goldberg.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Take the Royal Rumble from 2004 when Brock Lesnar came in an gave Goldberg the F5. Tazz started going on about how Goldberg deserved it and "big ups" to Lensar. What exacly had Goldberg done to deserve it?

 

He punked out Lesnar in both interview segments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cena definitely. He's the most over face on the show now, why the hell not? I have a feeling Dave's getting fucked over at Mania to the chase the title into Backlash.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Take the Royal Rumble from 2004 when Brock Lesnar came in an gave Goldberg the F5. Tazz started going on about how Goldberg deserved it and "big ups" to Lensar. What exacly had Goldberg done to deserve it?

 

He punked out Lesnar in both interview segments.

 

 

 

 

I already said that.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Of course he draws fans and can make a fuckload of money. But his fans are retards. I watch WWE as a comedy/wrestling show. Cena isn't funny, and sucks as a wrestler.

 

You and a lot of the internet refuse, kicking and screaming all the way, to enjoy things that might actually MAKE MONEY and DRAW FANS

I don't refuse anything. I agree he'll make money and draw, but why should I enjoy something that bores me?

That sounds exactly like what I was saying years ago about RVD.

[Promoter 0]

I'm in the camp that feels Cena and Batista have to win. I think some are starting to latch onto JBL's title reign because it's finally something different in terms of its length. They made JBL have this long reign for a reason and that is to put Cena over. It was already rumoured that Vince wanted JBL to reign until SummerSlam and also wanted Rock vs. JBL at Mania(which is contradicting that contract b.s. imo). They pushed the plans up for Mania. Add in the fact that it was originally planned for Orton and Cena to switch brands alledgedly.

 

As for Triple H doing two straight jobs at Mania, all I have to say is the man thinks long term and I bet he gets a monster win at next year's event. Then you have to consider the rumoured matches of Orton/Taker and Hassan/Hogan where both veterans might job and you can't have Triple H retaining in the damn main event. That will SPOIL Mania in fans' eyes. It worked in 2000 because it was the element of surprise and quite frankly they needed Triple H to become a star with Big Show flopping, Foley retiring , and Rock leaning towards hollywood. You see sometimes the HHHate is not warranted and that instance it wasn't.

[Guest Brian]

Personally, I'm kinda bored, and it does nothing for me. I like Bradshaw's schtick and his promos, but as champ, he doesn't really cut it. I really don't see him as credible. I think that's his flaw, holding the belt but never establishing himself. The effort is there.

 

We'll have to see with Cena. Cena needs edge to his character. He canget by with being a cliched wrestler, but he needs something to get him in. I think there's a good deal of fans willing to accept him, but I still feel that he has something lacking.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I think there's a good deal of fans willing to accept him, but I still feel that he has something lacking.

Wrestling ability?

[Australian Pride 0]

From a money perspective I'll say Cena. He needs the title on him for whenever his movie is released, and to see if he is an actual draw in his own right.

 

From an entertainment perspective It'd be JBL, no doubts.

[cbacon 0]

I'd like to Cena's reign last another 4 years. That'd be amusing

[Guest Brian]

I think there's a good deal of fans willing to accept him, but I still feel that he has something lacking.

Wrestling ability?

You can get by WITH limited ability. Good pacing has covered up a lot of other main eventers, some of whom get virtual blowjobs on the net. It's a character flaw I'm looking at.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

BTW to whoever said Cena and Batista should celebrate together, this is a bad idea and the only way that this would work is if Batista just looked at Cena like "Who the hell are you to come out here now during my moment?" and proceeded to powerbomb Cena through hell.

[Guest Brian]

So Smackdown can be reaffirmed as being second-rate?