Italian journalist shot

[Guest cosbywasmurdered]

Hell, this is the US military. If they wanted to kill her --- she'd be quite dead right now.

-=Mike

 

Unless your name is Osama that is.

[2GOLD 0]

Hell, this is the US military. If they wanted to kill her --- she'd be quite dead right now.

-=Mike

 

Unless your name is Osama that is.

 

I'm pretty sure if they got him in the open where they had to shoot him instead of dropping a bomb on him, they'd totally nail him.

 

Now if he's in the middle of the road and they try to drop a bomb on him, they'll miss and blow up a manure factory.

[Guest MikeSC]

I blame the "reporter" --- who, quite honestly, the US would have been wise to not even let inside of Iraq. After all, you didn't see Nazi sympathizers reporting from inside occupied Germany.

Does that really equate? If she was sympathizing with terrorists, why would they kidnap her?

For most of these "militants" a Westerner is a Westerner. For them at least, the difference between an Italian communist and a contractor from Kansas is so small as to be insignificance.

However, given their treatment of her, they clearly knew the difference.

-=Mike

It may seem that way, Mike, but I assure you its not the case. This is from personal knowledge from VERY reliable sources but...trust me she was not an unusual case except for its ending (that includes her ransom and the lack of communication between Italian and American officials).

Her treatment makes zero sense when compared to the British woman who was married to an Iraqi and who worked to help Iraqis for 30 years.

 

THAT woman, who helped Iraqis, was beheaded.

 

Why was Commie McShitwriter completely spared?

-=Mike

[Guest INXS]

It's now come to light that the car wasn't shot at for failing to stop at a checkpoint - they had gone through several checkpoints and were 700 yards away from the Airport when the car was shot at.

 

The suggestion that this was an elaborate hoax is absurd and falls in to the insane conspiracy drawer, hell, it's even more ridiculous than some of the suggestions that i've made on here.

 

The American military are a law unto themselves, that much is obvious.

[Guest MikeSC]

It's now come to light that the car wasn't shot at for failing to stop at a checkpoint - they had gone through several checkpoints and were 700 yards away from the Airport when the car was shot at.

No, it's not clear. Lenin Von Propagandist claims it is so --- but there is a SOP for American convoys in Iraq. When you're told to slow down, you SLOW THE FUCK DOWN.

The suggestion that this was an elaborate hoax is absurd and falls in to the insane conspiracy drawer, hell, it's even more ridiculous than some of the suggestions that i've made on here.

Yes, no question about why the captors --- for the first time EVER --- was nice to a prisoner should arise.

 

Or why she'd have NOTHING negative to say about the people who abducted her a month ago.

 

Or why she was giving directions to the cameraman during her taped "plea".

The American military are a law unto themselves, that much is obvious.

Hmm, the Italians didn't tell the Americans anything. The car didn't slow down when told to by troops who've actually had to deal with suicide bombers.

 

Yup --- it's all America's fault.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

From Corre Della Sera:

Il Manifesto, the U.S., and the death of Calipari

ERNESTO GALLI DELLA LOGGIA

 

In an Italy under shock at the death of Nicola Calipari, emotions are prompting people to say and write many things that perhaps in a few days may look overstated, if not embarrassing. Of course, the writer is the first to understand, and up to a point even share, what lies behind those emotions. Take the anguish of Giuliana Sgrena, abducted by the very people she thought she was defending. For one month, she was a hostage to fear and the unknown, then only one step away from death, saved at the last by the sacrifice of one of the men who freed her. We are well aware that the anguish was not merely hers. It was shared by her many close companions.

But when understandable emotion produces unequivocal, crudely polemical statements such as those we are currently reading in Il Manifesto newspaper, and which are echoed less assertively elsewhere, then it is permissible to put one or two - we think - not unreasonable questions.

 

We’ll begin with the crucial one, which is this: is it true, as the self-styled “Communist Daily” headline puts it, that the death of Nicola Calipari was a “preemptive” and therefore premeditated, homicide? Is it true, as Rossana Rossanda writes, that the Americans were shooting “to kill,” and that Calipari’s death was “an assassination?”

 

Can we really subscribe to the picture painted by Ms Rossanda of arrogant Yankee roughnecks, beardless and/or whisky-soused, complying with the “American maxim, ‘shoot first, ask questions later?,’ and obeying without objection the order ‘when those Italians arrive, eliminate them’?” Must we really trust Giuliana Sgrena’s feelings when she tells us that her abductors were very probably right when they told her, “the Americans don’t want you to go back,” adding her own comment that they - the Americans again - “don’t want our work to show what Iraq has become with the war, despite the so-called elections.” (As if the U.S. media publishes whatever the Pentagon says or, if that’s how things stand, as if all American journalists were also in mortal danger; as for the Iraqi elections that shouldn’t be called elections, what does Ms Sgrena think they should be called?).

 

To continue, what might be the “information” in Ms Sgrena’s possession that, according to her life partner Pier Scolari, could justify an assassination by the Americans determined not to see it published? Finally, are we really to believe that the Italians’ car was hit by “400 bullets, a storm of projectiles” (Mr Scolari)? Are we really to believe Giuliana Sgrena when she says that she personally picked “handfuls of bullets” off the seat, but that, in this premeditated rain of fire from an armored vehicle against an automobile with no armor plating, only one passenger actually died?

 

To us, at least, these look like reasonable questions. It seems to us equally reasonable to wonder in conclusion that if Washington had been determined that the Italian journalist should die, why - for her and our good fortune - did she survive? What caused the plot to abort? And why were two Italians actually left alive to bear witness to the attack? Let it be clear that it is quite possible that each of these questions has a satisfactory answer. But if that is the case, we hope that today, when heads are cooler, politicians and commentators from all parties will devote their attention to finding those answers. Because if we want to engage in a trial of strength with the U.S., we certainly can, but in the knowledge that it will not be won for us by emotions and strong words.

 

English translation by Giles Watson www.watson.it

http://www.corriere.it/english/editoriali/...ia/070305.shtml

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

And more:

Italy didn't plan safe escape for hostage

 

By Rowan Scarborough

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

 

Italian security forces failed to make arrangements for safe passage out of Iraq for a freed Italian reporter, whose car was fired on by U.S. troops, killing intelligence agent Nicola Calipari who brokered the reporter's release, according to an internal Pentagon memo.

 

The memo says checkpoint soldiers are trained to deal with erratic speeding vehicles whose drivers ignored warnings -- a profile that matches the Army's version of events in Friday night's shooting.

 

  The memo says more than 500 American troops have been killed on the streets and at checkpoints in Iraq. Mistaken shootings of civilians resulted in "few deadly incidents" since the U.S. started checkpoints in March 2003, according to the memo.

 

    Meanwhile, the White House dismissed as "absurd" the stated suspicion of the reporter, Giuliana Sgrena, who said the United States tried to kill her because it opposes negotiations with terrorists to free hostages. Miss Sgrena, a reporter for the Italian communist newspaper Il Manifesto, provided no evidence.

 

    "It's absurd to make any such suggestion that our men and women in uniform would deliberately target innocent civilians," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan adding: "We regret this incident. We are going to fully investigate what exactly occurred."

 

    Maj. Gen. William G. Webster Jr., who heads the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, yesterday completed the "commander's preliminary inquiry." He has decided to conduct a more extensive inquiry, called a 15-6 for the regulation that authorizes it. Gen. Webster will name one officer to head the probe.

 

  A U.S. official said that of all the cars that passed through the checkpoint that night, the reporter's vehicle was the only one fired upon.

 

    "Something that car did caused the soldiers to fire," said the official, who asked not to be named.

 

    The shooting occurred at night at a checkpoint on a notoriously dangerous road that links Baghdad to the international airport.

 

    The incident has put a spotlight on "friendly fire" episodes that occur with some regularity in Iraq when motorists fail to heed warnings to stop at roadside checkpoints and are fired on by American troops who fear that the vehicle might be a weapon. Cars and trucks are a common weapon in suicide bombings and drive-by shootings.

 

    The soldiers did not know that Miss Sgrena and Italian agents were headed in their direction on the way to the airport for a flight back to Italy.

 

    An internal Pentagon information memo states, "This is war. About 500 American service members have been killed by hostile fire while operating on Iraqi streets and highways. The journalist was driving in pitch-dark and at a high speed and failed, according to the first reports, to respond to numerous warnings. Besides, there is no indication that the Italian security forces made prior arrangements to facilitate the transition to the airport."

 

    The left-leaning Italian newspaper La Repubblica reported yesterday that Mr. Calipari decided not to use available escort protection from the elite commandos who protect Italy's Baghdad embassy.

 

    Instead, he rented an inconspicuous pickup trick to recover Miss Sgrena, wrote La Repubblica's top investigative reporter, Giuseppe D'Avanzo.

 

    "In Iraq, the United States makes the rules and the Italian ally also must respect them. If it wants to break them, it must do so with a double game and some crafty tricks," Mr. D'Avanzo wrote.

 

    Italian magistrates have opened an inquiry into the killing and are arranging for the truck to be flown to Italy for examination by ballistic experts, judicial sources said. The magistrates also have obtained from the U.S. military the cellular phone that Mr. Calipari was carrying when he was shot.

 

    Analysis of calls logged on the cellular phone might allow investigators to determine the speed at which the vehicle was traveling when U.S. troops opened fire on it, the sources say.

 

    Mel Sembler, U.S. ambassador to Italy, reiterated Washington's position in a 45-minute meeting with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi last night, diplomatic sources said.

 

    Robert Maginnis, a retired Army officer and military analyst, said Rome should have done a better job coordinating Miss Sgrena's exit once the Italians negotiated her release.

 

    "It seems to me that the Italian secret service considers this a James Bond movie in Baghdad," Mr. Maginnis said. "They're driving around at night picking up a journalist who has been kidnapped and pretending they can get through a phalanx of checkpoints along the deadliest road in all of Iraq without being detected, much less shot up."

 

    The Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which last week resumed command of Baghdad

operations after participating in the 2003 invasion, said the soldiers had warned the approaching car repeatedly before opening fire.

 

    According to the division, the patrol attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050308-121240-1847r.htm

-=Mike

[Guest Cerebus]

I blame the "reporter" --- who, quite honestly, the US would have been wise to not even let inside of Iraq. After all, you didn't see Nazi sympathizers reporting from inside occupied Germany.

Does that really equate? If she was sympathizing with terrorists, why would they kidnap her?

For most of these "militants" a Westerner is a Westerner. For them at least, the difference between an Italian communist and a contractor from Kansas is so small as to be insignificance.

However, given their treatment of her, they clearly knew the difference.

-=Mike

It may seem that way, Mike, but I assure you its not the case. This is from personal knowledge from VERY reliable sources but...trust me she was not an unusual case except for its ending (that includes her ransom and the lack of communication between Italian and American officials).

Her treatment makes zero sense when compared to the British woman who was married to an Iraqi and who worked to help Iraqis for 30 years.

 

THAT woman, who helped Iraqis, was beheaded.

 

Why was Commie McShitwriter completely spared?

-=Mike

There are more people kidnapped than you know Mike and not all of them are executed. The British social worker you mentioned was also critical of the invasion of Iraq but that didn't save her when they wanted to chop her head off to make a point.

[Guest MikeSC]

I understand that not all of them are executed.

 

I have very little reason to believe that any of them, outside of Castro Von Propagandist, were treated quite nicely by them.

-=Mike

[Vyce 0]

It's now come to light that the car wasn't shot at for failing to stop at a checkpoint - they had gone through several checkpoints and were 700 yards away from the Airport when the car was shot at.

 

The suggestion that this was an elaborate hoax is absurd and falls in to the insane conspiracy drawer, hell, it's even more ridiculous than some of the suggestions that i've made on here.

 

The American military are a law unto themselves, that much is obvious.

Ah, the old INXS rears his head.

 

I was concerned, because it looked as if earlier on in this thread, INXS developed an unusual (for him) sense of rationality, where he realized that this woman's story wasn't completely on the up and up, but he has thankfully resorted back to his usual irrational bias / hatred for all things American.

 

All is once more right with the world.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Let's ignore this loon's raving and ranting about how Americans are pigs and focus on the real issue: What communication breakdown happened that caused these people to not know that Italy was sending a car with a government agent inside? Was it an error in their side, someoen forgot to tell somebody? Did they just not tell us entirely, or did they tell us and someone on our side forgot to send the word (the same scenario as the first one but in our chain?)

[Guest Cerebus]

I understand that not all of them are executed.

 

I have very little reason to believe that any of them, outside of Castro Von Propagandist, were treated quite nicely by them.

-=Mike

It depends on what you mean "treated well" If you mean not tortured and raped then I guess you might consider her having been "treated well." My guess is she was treated no worse and no better than most western kidnap victims in Iraq. She obviously wasn't physically harmed, or if she was she hasn't said anything about it.

[Guest Cerebus]

Let's ignore this loon's raving and ranting about how Americans are pigs and focus on the real issue: What communication breakdown happened that caused these people to not know that Italy was sending a car with a government agent inside? Was it an error in their side, someoen forgot to tell somebody? Did they just not tell us entirely, or did they tell us and someone on our side forgot to send the word (the same scenario as the first one but in our chain?)

Segerna was released thanks to her ransom being paid by a wealthy Italian industrialist against US policy not to pay ransoms to release kidnap victims. It is VERY plausible that this is the reason that Italian intelligence kept things hush-hush, its a diplomatic pain. Of course, a man is dead thanks to avoiding a relatively minor diplomatic snafu, but its not the first time and you can be sure it won't be the last.

[Guest MikeSC]

Let's ignore this loon's raving and ranting about how Americans are pigs and focus on the real issue: What communication breakdown happened that caused these people to not know that Italy was sending a car with a government agent inside? Was it an error in their side, someoen forgot to tell somebody? Did they just not tell us entirely, or did they tell us and someone on our side forgot to send the word (the same scenario as the first one but in our chain?)

Who knows why?

 

Why did they choose an inconspicuous vehicle over an Italian security vehicle?

 

Why did they not stop when ordered to do so?

 

There are a ton of questions.

 

And she is using this event --- where blaming the US is shaky at best --- to slam the US.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Just so you guys know the picture Mike has was mistakingly posted as the car they were in but it was actually the car she was kidnapped in. Here are pictures of the real car:

 

 

 

 

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

 

The funny thing is I think there's even less damage on this car than the one that the media incorrectly used at first.

[Guest INXS]

Well, Italy are now demanding that the US punishes the killers....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4328551.stm

 

Italy's foreign minister has demanded the US "identify and punish" those responsible for the death of an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq.

Gianfranco Fini said the US and Italy had different versions of what happened to Nicola Calipari, who died under US fire while escorting a freed hostage.

 

The US says shots were fired because the vehicle was speeding and did not heed troops' warnings for it to stop.

 

But Mr Fini said the car was travelling at no more than 40km per hour.

 

Calipari had also made "all the necessary contacts" with US and Italian officials about the hostage's release and the journey to the airport, he added.

 

The incident has intensified the already strong Italian opposition to the country's military presence in Iraq and put intense pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government to find answers.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

That's hilarious coming from Italy since they intentionally didn't inform the U.S. of what they were doing.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, Italy are now demanding that the US punishes the killers....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4328551.stm

 

Italy's foreign minister has demanded the US "identify and punish" those responsible for the death of an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq.

Gianfranco Fini said the US and Italy had different versions of what happened to Nicola Calipari, who died under US fire while escorting a freed hostage.

 

The US says shots were fired because the vehicle was speeding and did not heed troops' warnings for it to stop.

 

But Mr Fini said the car was travelling at no more than 40km per hour.

 

Calipari had also made "all the necessary contacts" with US and Italian officials about the hostage's release and the journey to the airport, he added.

 

The incident has intensified the already strong Italian opposition to the country's military presence in Iraq and put intense pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government to find answers.

Calipari and the Italian press might want to get their stories straight.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Just so you guys know the picture Mike has was mistakingly posted as the car they were in but it was actually the car she was kidnapped in.  Here are pictures of the real car:

What the hell is a fairly recent Lexus doing out in Iraq?

 

I can't even tell what model it is for some weird reason. Grill resembles an RX, headlights and body style resemble an LS.

[Guest MikeSC]

Just so you guys know the picture Mike has was mistakingly posted as the car they were in but it was actually the car she was kidnapped in.  Here are pictures of the real car:

What the hell is a fairly recent Lexus doing out in Iraq?

 

I can't even tell what model it is for some weird reason. Grill resembles an RX, headlights and body style resemble an LS.

So, the AP used a picture of a MORE damaged car than was actually there? Classic.

 

It really does make her story sound like BS.

-=Mike

[2GOLD 0]

One mild hole in the windshield?

The driver side window was gone, but it could have just been rolled down for all I know.

 

If the soldiers working the check point get in trouble for this, it's major bs. They did their job. Check point means stop. The car didn't stop, they fired.

 

This woman is full of it.

[Zorin Industries 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4333839.stm

 

Now even Berlusconi himself is saying he dosen't believe the US accounts, its hard to keep straight what the actual facts are here.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

The U.S. account by far is the most accurate at this time. Her story has changed at least 3 or 4 times while the U.S. story has been completely consistent. I think this is Italy trying to take the attention off of the fact that they paid millions to terrorists and then caused this whole situation by not telling the U.S. what was going on.

[2GOLD 0]

Yet the US will shrug, say "Fine, we did it" and punish soldiers who did nothing wrong in the honor of 'good international relations'.

[Guest MikeSC]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4333839.stm

 

Now even Berlusconi himself is saying he dosen't believe the US accounts, its hard to keep straight what the actual facts are here.

Berlusconi, respectable as he may be, is wrong.

 

Her story doesn't even begin to make sense.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

UPDATE TIME:

Hostage Shot By US Was Careless - Italian Minister

12/03/2005

Phil Stewart

Italy's justice minister urged former hostage Giuliana Sgrena on Friday to stop making "careless" accusations after being shot by US forces in Baghdad, saying she had already caused enough grief.

 

Sgrena has repeatedly suggesting US soldiers shot her on purpose and said on Friday she had little faith in a joint investigation by Italy and the United States into the "friendly fire" incident.

 

"She has created enormous problems for the government and also caused grief that perhaps was better avoided," Justice Minister Roberto Castelli told reporters in Bologna.

 

Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was shot dead by U.S. forces as he shielded the newly freed hostage while taking her to the airport.

 

Sgrena herself said in interviews this week that had she been more cautious in Baghdad, she perhaps would not have been kidnapped in the first place.

 

The award-winning war reporter, who works for Communist newspaper Il Manifesto, was abducted as she conducted interviews outside Baghdad University and held for a month.

 

Many Italians have been irked by her descriptions of her kidnappers. She said they were not killers and that she may have over-dramatised her videotaped appeal from captivity for Italy to withdraw its 3,000 troops from Iraq.[/]

 

She sobbed in the video and begged her family and the government to do something to save her life.

 

"Sgrena, I think, should perhaps be more careful. She has said a load of nonsense, speaks somewhat carelessly and makes careless comments," Castelli said.

 

The US army says Sgrena's vehicle sped toward the checkpoint outside the airport and ignored warning shots, an explanation rejected by Rome and the car's driver.

 

Italy's centre-right government, while rejecting any hint that the shooting was intentional, has until now largely refrained from directly criticising Sgrena.

 

Sgrena has told ANSA news agency she does not expect official inquiries into the incident to produce results "because we know how they end up".

 

She also complained of being treated unfairly.

 

"I feel like I'm being accused for being kidnapped and then saved," Sgrena said, speaking from a Rome hospital, where she is undergoing treatment for her injuries.

http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11965-4190767,00.html

And...

Sgrena operation 'kept from US'

US forces might not have known that slain Italian secret agent Nicola Calipari was in Iraq to secure a hostage's freedom, Italian papers say.

 

Calipari was killed by US troops' fire while escorting journalist Giuliana Sgrena by car to Baghdad airport.

 

But the press quotes an Italian general who liaised between US forces and Italian intelligence as saying he did not know Calipari was on a rescue bid.

 

His report is now in the hands of Rome prosecutors investigating the killing.

 

According to newspaper La Repubblica, Gen Mario Marioli helped the two Italian secret service agents obtain a special badge from the coalition forces on their arrival in Baghdad.

 

But Gen Marioli, who is the coalition forces' second-in-command, reportedly was unaware that the officers were on a mission to free Ms Sgrena, and so the information he passed on to US officials was incomplete.

 

Fatal coincidence

 

Gen Marioli's testimony is crucial because he is the man who was keeping the US forces informed of the car's arrival before the fatal shooting, in which a US patrol killed the secret service agent and injured Ms Sgrena and a second officer.

 

Gen Marioli's version, as reported by the papers, also contradicts a reconstruction by the Italian government and Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who said the US military had been advised that Ms Sgrena was on board the car.

 

The US military have said they had no knowledge of the rescue mission.

 

Meanwhile, it has emerged that the US had set up makeshift checkpoints along the road to the airport the night of the fatal shooting because the outgoing US ambassador, John Negroponte, was travelling on the same road.

 

Italian media have been speculating that Italy might have deliberately kept the mission wrapped in secrecy because the US did not approve of the ongoing negotiations with the kidnappers.

 

The US-led coalition has launched an investigation into the shooting with the participation of Italian officials.

 

The inquiry is led by Gen Peter Vangjel, and is expected to take up to four weeks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4341387.stm

-=Mike