Just how good could Marty Jannety have been

[Guest LooneyTune]

Since 1989 I've always thought Jannetty carried the team. Unless I was a smark when I was in Kindergarten (especially when I thought wrestling was real back then). The only year I liked Shawn as a silly mark was in 1996, and that was because everyone and their mother was gone. I've always hated pretty boys who acknowledge it, and he's one of the most over-rated wrestlers I've ever seen.

 

Now from when I was a smark to the present, I enjoy most of his matches, but still don't think he's anywhere near the best wrestlers list, and his backstage politics label him "Dickhead".

[Guest krazykat72]

The story Marty tells is that htey got pissed that they were being paid considerably less than other teams for a commercial. Shawn pissed and moaned and they decided that they would quit, so Marty called Patterson and gave notice for the team. Vince decided to let them leave rather quickly (after the Survivor Series 91 PPV, I think), rather than job them out, which Marty thought was pretty decent of him. Marty tells Shawn that he gave teh notice and Shawn starts flipping out and saying, "He let us quit?" as though he could not believe that Vince wouldn't beg a JTTS tag team to stay. So, Shawn calls Vince and tells him that Marty is crazy and that Shawn did not have anything to do with it. So Shawn got he push and Marty got pretty much nothing.

 

I don't know how true that is but it's what Marty says.

That's remarkably similar to Michaels' story.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Some Guy 0]

Does HBK included double crossing his partnner and friend in his version?

 

Looney Tune, if you enjoy most of his matches why do you bitch about them so much?

[Guest LooneyTune]

Enjoy as in "fun match" not enjoy as in "oh my god best match ever! (cums on screen 56 times)".

[Guest krazykat72]

Does HBK included double crossing his partnner and friend in his version?

There's the same story about being paid less for some sort of appearance (where the Rockers were paid for the two of them, what one wrestler was paid).

He said Jannetty was really upset about it and told Shawn they had a job waiting in WCW and that Marty had given their notice for them. When it turned out there was no job waiting for them (or one that was drastically less than they were expecting), Shawn went to Vince, said he didn't want to quit and it was time to move on.

Basically, Shawn provided rationale for his part in the break up.

As I said before, both of them had some substance abuse and other problems (particularly Jannetty, as he was fired soon after) at the time, so I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Some Guy 0]

Once again this according to Jannetty but he claims that he was not brought back as quickly as planned after the Barber Shop incident because he got arrested for assaulting an officer after the cop threw his date on the ground and he got 6 months house arrest. I know that he had drug issues as well and coke was involved in the arrest story as his date, who was under age was being removed from the club they were in after an altercation had put her coke in Marty's pocket so she wouldn't be caught with it. After Marty grabbed the cop adn got arrested he was searched and they found it but th egirl admitted that it was hers.

 

Enjoy as in "fun match" not enjoy as in "oh my god best match ever! (cums on screen 56 times)".

 

Fair enough.

[Guest LooneyTune]

I think he meant was Shawn responsible for Marty being fired right after the Rumble in 1993, because he blamed the match entirely on Marty because of (personal demon here), when neither man looked to be having a good night. (Vince was told that the matches on house shows were excellent, so he was expecting something better than good)

 

Edit: Whoops, wrong speculation story.

[Guest MikeSC]

I think he meant was Shawn responsible for Marty being fired right after the Rumble in 1993, because he blamed the match entirely on Marty because of (personal demon here), when neither man looked to be having a good night. (Vince was told that the matches on house shows were excellent, so he was expecting something better than good)

 

Edit: Whoops, wrong speculation story.

The house matches WERE amazingly good. Really. Like Hennig v Michaels, it's astonishing how much worse the PPV was than the house show matches.

 

Please note how much better Michaels v Jannety on RAW was.

-=Mike

[Guest krazykat72]

I think he meant was Shawn responsible for Marty being fired right after the Rumble in 1993, because he blamed the match entirely on Marty because of (personal demon here), when neither man looked to be having a good night. (Vince was told that the matches on house shows were excellent, so he was expecting something better than good)

 

Edit: Whoops, wrong speculation story.

That Rumble match is underrated too.

It's not as good as RAW, but it was a really good match.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[chaosrage 0]

The house matches WERE amazingly good. Really. Like Hennig v Michaels, it's astonishing how much worse the PPV was than the house show matches.

 

Please note how much better Michaels v Jannety on RAW was.

    -=Mike

Janetty said they were fine tuning their matches for weeks and had it down so perfect, the house show match they had on the night before the Rumble was the best match he had ever had. He called it the greatest experience in his career. Then at the Rumble, WWF decided that day to put Sherri in the match and according to Marty, it threw the entire rhythm of the match off. They had to set up new spots and it wasn't what they had been doing.

 

After the match, Vince told them he was very disappointed and it wasn't even close to what he expected. Marty said he was surprised, he thought it was so-so, not as good as they were doing, but not that bad. Then he ended up getting released over it because Shawn told that Vince Marty was drunk. Heh, I don't know how they managed to patch up all that bad blood.

[strummer 0]

I believe Meltzer gave the Rumble match either **** or ****1/4. But I think Dave often overrated good matches from late 80s/early 90s WWF because there were so few of them at the time.

[Guest Loss]

Funny enough, Jannetty was considered the better worker than HBK.  Marty could have probably been a better rival for Bret Hart in the 90's than HBK was.  Michaels was only able to get himself over in *his* matches, not the other guy.  Marty could work as enhancement talent or as the top dog in the ring.  That is crucial in getting a program over with fans.  You have to be able to work either side of the coin.  HBK could never do that and still can't. 

 

There's really just no telling how far or how big Marty could have gotten if he had kept his head on straight and stayed clean and sober.  The sky was the limit.

I don't know about Marty working a top program with Bret, he had little to no charisma and couldn't cut heel promos. Yes he was a better, much smarter worker, but I don't know if he would have gotten as over as Shawn did

Shawn has still never really learned to do a good interview, and he's been a top star for years. Who's to say Marty, booked the same way Shawn was, couldn't have accomplished the same thing.

[Guest MikeSC]

Funny enough, Jannetty was considered the better worker than HBK.  Marty could have probably been a better rival for Bret Hart in the 90's than HBK was.  Michaels was only able to get himself over in *his* matches, not the other guy.  Marty could work as enhancement talent or as the top dog in the ring.  That is crucial in getting a program over with fans.  You have to be able to work either side of the coin.  HBK could never do that and still can't. 

 

There's really just no telling how far or how big Marty could have gotten if he had kept his head on straight and stayed clean and sober.  The sky was the limit.

I don't know about Marty working a top program with Bret, he had little to no charisma and couldn't cut heel promos. Yes he was a better, much smarter worker, but I don't know if he would have gotten as over as Shawn did

Shawn has still never done a good promo, and he's been a top star for years.

I think Shawn has done some really good promos, honestly.

-=Mike

...I did like his promo with HHH and Coach setting up the Rumble '04 match...

[strummer 0]

I always thought his barber shop promo was great stuff. Plus, on From the Vault DVD, check out his promo from Challenge about the WM 10 Ladder Match

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Funny enough, Jannetty was considered the better worker than HBK.  Marty could have probably been a better rival for Bret Hart in the 90's than HBK was.  Michaels was only able to get himself over in *his* matches, not the other guy.  Marty could work as enhancement talent or as the top dog in the ring.  That is crucial in getting a program over with fans.  You have to be able to work either side of the coin.  HBK could never do that and still can't. 

 

There's really just no telling how far or how big Marty could have gotten if he had kept his head on straight and stayed clean and sober.  The sky was the limit.

I don't know about Marty working a top program with Bret, he had little to no charisma and couldn't cut heel promos. Yes he was a better, much smarter worker, but I don't know if he would have gotten as over as Shawn did

Shawn has still never really learned to do a good interview, and he's been a top star for years. Who's to say Marty, booked the same way Shawn was, couldn't have accomplished the same thing.

Yay let's rewrite history in order to make Shawn the prick look bad.

 

Bull****, Shawn's always been a good promo man as a heel. His DX promos were awesome. As a face he gets bland, but he was NEVER known as bad on the mic and saying it now just continues to prove to me that people can't look at Shawn without a hidden agenda, can't give the man props for what he's done because of 'backstage stuff'.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Stupid Sherri... she kinda did ruin the rhythm of the match with her envolvment. Still was a good match, but I gotta agree, both Raw matches were much better.

[Guest Loss]

Yay let's rewrite history in order to make Shawn the prick look bad.

 

Bull****, Shawn's always been a good promo man as a heel. His DX promos were awesome. As a face he gets bland, but he was NEVER known as bad on the mic and saying it now just continues to prove to me that people can't look at Shawn without a hidden agenda, can't give the man props for what he's done because of 'backstage stuff'.

History is not being rewritten, but some of us are able to at least let go of our childhood idols and start looking at them fairly for the sake of discussion. Shawn has never done an interview that made me want to see a match. He's been a part of some great angles and he's a good actor, but he's no Flair, Austin, Rock or even HHH honestly.

 

I couldn't really care less about "backstage shit", and I say that EVERY SINGLE TIME this same topic comes up and it's getting old. People seem to think the only reason anyone can find flaws in Shawn is because of his attitude, but there are other glaring flaws that his fanboys gleefully overlook because they marked out for him growing up. His DX promos were funny and entertaining. He was a fantastic heel during this time period because he knew how to get under fans' skin. He was not, nor has he ever been, someone who could sell a match by hyping it up on the mic, which is what makes a great promo.

 

The closest things I've seen to good Shawn promos either had him making insider references that went over the heads of the majority of the audience, or had him using so much profanity that they couldn't even air the things uncensored on cable.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

History is not being rewritten, but some of us are able to at least let go of our childhood idols and start looking at them fairly for the sake of discussion. Shawn has never done an interview that made me want to see a match. He's been a part of some great angles and he's a good actor, but he's no Flair, Austin, Rock or even HHH honestly.

 

I couldn't really care less about "backstage shit", and I say that EVERY SINGLE TIME this same topic comes up and it's getting old. People seem to think the only reason anyone can find flaws in Shawn is because of his attitude, but there are other glaring flaws that his fanboys gleefully overlook because they marked out for him growing up. His DX promos were funny and entertaining. He was a fantastic heel during this time period because he knew how to get under fans' skin. He was not, nor has he ever been, someone who could sell a match by hyping it up on the mic, which is what makes a great promo.

 

The closest things I've seen to good Shawn promos either had him making insider references that went over the heads of the majority of the audience, or had him using so much profanity that they couldn't even air the things uncensored on cable.

I respectfully disagree. I thought his DX promos DID help sell his feuds with the Undertaker and Bret Hart big time. I thought even some of his promos with Chris Jericho before their Wrestlemania match were good. I thought his barbershop promo when he turned on Marty Jannety was great, I thought his promos for Austin were great, including where Mike Tyson joined DX.

 

 

Promos are really opinion based, I like some HHH promos that everyone else seems to hate, so I can see where we differ here. Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match and theirs no evidence to the contrary. For me it's got nothing to do with being a fanboy, I'm a Shawn Micheals fan but I know and acknowledge his shortcomings, just going by my personal opinion and stuff I've heard for the last 10 years, I've never heard any kind of consenus that Shawn was BAD on the mic, he had a natural charisma and unlikeabliity about him as a heel that carried his promos. If your saying he isn't the league of Flair/Austin/Rock/HHH which are some of the best promo men of all time (maybe not HHH), than that's fine, but my point is I've never thought Shawn was bad on the mic to a point where people should point it out as a weakness.

 

I'd like to see some particular examples of a guy doing a promo that single handedly 'sold a match', that's rare in itself and if Shawn doesn't possess that than that's fine, but I would think only a few guys do and certainly not Marty Jannety. Marty was a bland face and an even blander heel.

[Guest Loss]

Promos that have sold a match:

 

* Chris Jericho's "I am not a joke" speech delivered to the Rock on the Smackdown before the 2002 Royal Rumble

 

* Chris Jericho's side-by-side comparison of a young Jericho and a young Michaels going into Wrestlemania XIX

 

* The Hogan/Rock confrontation before WM X-8

 

* Bret Hart's stuff going into Wrestlemania XII, talking about his strategy for beating Shawn

 

* Ric Flair's tirades against Eric Bischoff going into Starrcade '98, where he vows to kill him if he gets his hands on him

 

* Hogan's promos building his matches with Sting, Piper and Savage in 1996 and 1997 -- just amazing stuff that he never really got the credit for that he deserved

 

* Mick Foley's stuff leading into his retirement match with HHH

 

* Flair's stuff headed into Starrcade '83

 

* Flair's stuff headed into his match with Hogan at SuperBrawl IX ("Do not train yourself for a cosmetic appearance. You are not going on a talk show, you are not promoting your latest movie, you are facing a man who many have called the greatest who has ever lived.")

 

It's been said by others before, but a great interview contains three things:

 

Motive

Intent

Hype

 

Shawn could do entertaining interviews that made me laugh and got his character over, but you are 100% right that this sort of thing is subjective. In HBK's defense, interviews shifted away from hype and became more of a way to be funny and cute when we entered the Russo era, and Shawn was as much a victim of that as anyone else.

[Some Guy 0]

I thought Shawn's DX promos helped sell any match he was in if for no other reason then you wanted someone to kill the guy fo being such a fucking jerk.

 

The back and forth semi-shoot stuff that he Bret did throughout 97 helped sell the Survivor Series match.

[Guest cosbywasmurdered]

Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match

 

If Shawn was good at selling a match maybe he wouldn't have been one of the worst drawing Champions of all time.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I like how he says promo's are opinion based, and then promptly cites an alleged lack of 'facts' supporting the anti-Shawn promo argument as somehow proof that that point of view is wrong.

[chaosrage 0]

History is not being rewritten, but some of us are able to at least let go of our childhood idols and start looking at them fairly for the sake of discussion. Shawn has never done an interview that made me want to see a match. He's been a part of some great angles and he's a good actor, but he's no Flair, Austin, Rock or even HHH honestly.

His promo when he turned heel after Summerslam97 was better than anything HHH's ever done. So were most of his promos in DX.

[chaosrage 0]

Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match

 

If Shawn was good at selling a match maybe he wouldn't have been one of the worst drawing Champions of all time.

He didn't do so bad as a heel, did he?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match

 

If Shawn was good at selling a match maybe he wouldn't have been one of the worst drawing Champions of all time.

He didn't do so bad as a heel, did he?

Heat wise, he was great as a heel. Drawing wise, not that hot. The three December 1997 to February 1998 PPV's with him on top (while he didn't actually wrestle at the Feb PPV, nobody knew he wasn't going to show up until the last minute, so he can be credited/blamed for his part in the buy rate) all trailed what WCW did for their PPV's in those respective months.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

I like how he says promo's are opinion based, and then promptly cites an alleged lack of 'facts' supporting the anti-Shawn promo argument as somehow proof that that point of view is wrong.

Actually you seemed to misunderstand. How was I using 'lack of facts' to prove that point of view wrong? Thier is no proving that wrong because it's opinion based. When your talking about promos you can't prove someone else's opinion wrong all you can do is give your own opinion. I said that going by my personal opinion and everything I had heard over the last 10 years from other fans I had never gotten the impression that Shawn was bad on the mic. I wasn't stating it as a fact or even using it disprove how he feels about Shawn as a promo man because that's impossible.

 

I KNOW Shawn was a hated heel in DX, and alot of that was because in his promos he was coming off as super obnoxious and unlikeable, and he was getting alot of promo time in those days also.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Talking about Shawns heel work from 1997...

 

Am I the only one who doesn't like his matches with Undertaker from Ground Zero and Bad(d) Blood? Both are 20+ minutes of Undertaker beating him up, Shawn bouncing around like a ball... and thats just about it. 20 minutes of punching and Undertaker no selling.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I like how he says promo's are opinion based, and then promptly cites an alleged lack of 'facts' supporting the anti-Shawn promo argument as somehow proof that that point of view is wrong.

Actually you seemed to misunderstand. How was I using 'lack of facts' to prove that point of view wrong? Thier is no proving that wrong because it's opinion based. When your talking about promos you can't prove someone else's opinion wrong all you can do is give your own opinion. I said that going by my personal opinion and everything I had heard over the last 10 years from other fans I had never gotten the impression that Shawn was bad on the mic. I wasn't stating it as a fact or even using it disprove how he feels about Shawn as a promo man because that's impossible.

How was I using 'lack of facts' to prove that point of view wrong? 

 

Well, this kind of hints that you don't think their views have merit:

 

Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match and theirs no evidence to the contrary.

 

So what was that meant to do, if not knock their viewpoint ?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Talking about Shawns heel work from 1997...

 

Am I the only one who doesn't like his matches with Undertaker from Ground Zero and Bad(d) Blood? Both are 20+ minutes of Undertaker beating him up, Shawn bouncing around like a ball... and thats just about it. 20 minutes of punching and Undertaker no selling.

GZ was overbooked into the ground. Most of the match took place before the bell even rang. and then you had about six ref bumps, a screw job finish, and almost no action in the ring.

 

BB is grossly overrated. The first half of it is just a squash match, and the second half is a slow brawl to build up to Shawn taking the bump off the cage. Add to that his blade job, and you've got a match that is nowhere near his supposed classic that people pimp it as.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match

 

If Shawn was good at selling a match maybe he wouldn't have been one of the worst drawing Champions of all time.

He didn't do so bad as a heel, did he?

Heat wise, he was great as a heel. Drawing wise, not that hot. The three December 1997 to February 1998 PPV's with him on top (while he didn't actually wrestle at the Feb PPV, nobody knew he wasn't going to show up until the last minute, so he can be credited/blamed for his part in the buy rate) all trailed what WCW did for their PPV's in those respective months.

December- Main evented against Ken Shamrock, why would anyone expect that to draw?

 

January- Main evented against the Undertaker, but the main draw on the show as always is the Royal Rumble.

 

February- Didn't wrestle, the main attraction in this match again was Steve Austin.

 

Correct me I'm wrong but WCW was still very hot at this time and was having its biggest ppv ever in Starcade 97. I don't really think you can put the blame on Shawn for not taking away viewers from WCW at that particular time.

 

From January on really Austin was the main draw and focal point of the show.