Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 18, 2005 OK, time for a new question: How would WCW's booking have been different in 2000 had Bobby Walker NOT sued them for racial discrimination? Much as I liked his work when compared to the rest of the WCW roster, I do not think they would have given Booker the strap at all if not for it. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shadow Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Some would argue that it's completely true that Booker T got the title merely to offset the racial lawsuit but if they only did the title change for that...why did they run with booker for another 8 months then in the main event/upper card? They could've gave him the title and taken it off around september and shuffled him back down but they didn't. I'm among those who simply believe it was a case of them wanting something different and that it was also convienent for them to put it on Booker with the whole lawsuit. Killing 2 birds with one stone if you will. also; if they merely wanted to put the title on a minority, why not Eddy Guerrero whom was just as over as Booker in 2000 and clearly a better worker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Some would argue that it's completely true that Booker T got the title merely to offset the racial lawsuit but if they only did the title change for that...why did they run with booker for another 8 months then in the main event/upper card? They could've gave him the title and taken it off around september and shuffled him back down but they didn't. I'm among those who simply believe it was a case of them wanting something different and that it was also convienent for them to put it on Booker with the whole lawsuit. Killing 2 birds with one stone if you will. also; if they merely wanted to put the title on a minority, why not Eddy Guerrero whom was just as over as Booker in 2000 and clearly a better worker. Umm, Eddy was gone in 2000? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shadow Report post Posted March 18, 2005 yes i totally neglected that part, okay what about rey mysterio then...or whatever. I still buy the idea that they wanted something shocking for that title switch and the fact booker was black helped their "case" in the lawsuit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 I think a more intriguing question is WHAT IF they were forced to rehire Bobby Walker and put the world title on HIM, and then Ted Turner had to become his butler....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shadow Report post Posted March 18, 2005 can the courts determine a wrestling promotions booking plans? D'lo Brown needs to sue now and get the title on him in WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BUTT 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 yes i totally neglected that part, okay what about rey mysterio then...or whatever. They never would have put the title on Rey. WCW didn't like the small guys any more than WWE does. They just didn't make them tone down their movesets. I think Booker would have sill won the title had the lawsuit not happened, assuming the Russo/Hogan situation still went down as it did. However, I think they may have gone a bit overboard with the "look at us, we're not racist" stuff during the period in August 2000 when all but one of their champions (Lance Storm) was a minority (Booker was World Champ, Elix Skipper was Cruiserweight, Norman Smiley was Hardcore, and Rey and Juventud were Tag Team Champs). By the way, how did you guys feel about the lawsuit? I don't think that WCW was really any more racist than WWE has been over the years, but the stuff Russo said was REALLY dumb and they shouldn't have been surprised that disgruntled ex-employees would try to sue over it. I think the greatest irony of the lawsuit was that it claimed that WCW wrestlers were portrayed as pimps, which was not only untrue (I guess they just confused WCW and WWF, and who wouldn't make that mistake?) but Hardbody Harrison, who was one of the wrestlers who sued WCW, was arrested last summer for forcing women into prostitution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted March 18, 2005 This whole topic gets brought up... and the first thing to flash through my mind is wonder what his "Quittin' Time" finisher was... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 the stuff Russo said was REALLY dumb and they shouldn't have been surprised that disgruntled ex-employees would try to sue over it. refresh my memory, what did Russo say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BUTT 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 This is from his Wrestleline interview with Ben Miller just before he joined WCW: BEN: This is something I've always wanted to see in American professional wrestling, have you guys, the TV writing team, ever thought of having the title like All Japan Pro Wrestling where there's no gimmick matches, no run-ins, no count outs, it's just two guys in a wrestling match. And not every match to be like that, because I know how it can get boring and monotonous, but just one title --- RUSSO: I'm going to tell you something right now that you will absolutely not agree with, but I've been a wrestling fan my whole life and I will live and die by this - it is hard enough, believe me I write this shit, it is hard enough to get somebody over. You will never ever, ever, ever, ever see the Japanese wrestler or the Mexican wrestler over in American mainstream wrestling. And the simple reason for that is, even myself, I'm an American, and I don't want to sound like a big bigot or a racist or anything like that, but I'm an American ... if I'm watching wrestling here in America, I don't give a shit about a Japanese guy. I don't give a shit about a Mexican guy. I'm from America, and that's what I want to see. Now there are the smart fans that love that type of shit, like you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Oh god, I remember that now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 They only put the title on Booker because of that lawsuit? Wow, I thought it was because they, I dunno, wanted to push someone new. Sillllllly me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted March 18, 2005 What if... Lex Luger had been put over Yokozuna strong and clean for the WWF title at Summerslam 1993 instead of the count out finish? Vince McMahon decided to go with a DQ finish in the SS97 match, never screwed Bret, and allowed Bret to do a retirement speech the next night on RAW? HHH had won the King of the Ring in 1996 instead of Steve Austin? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianGuitarist 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2005 Vince McMahon decided to go with a DQ finish in the SS97 match, never screwed Bret, and allowed Bret to do a retirement speech the next night on RAW? HHH had won the King of the Ring in 1996 instead of Steve Austin Nothing. Same as now. Bret would have left, albeit in better terms. HHH would be, well, on top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2005 I don't know about that the screwjob, and the follow up interview with Vince McMahon the following Raw, was a paramount in the growth of the Mr.McMahon character. Brett screwed Brett cemented Vince has someone the audience loathed. Not that it wouldn't of happened, but one can never tell if he would of been has hated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 19, 2005 Vince McMahon decided to go with a DQ finish in the SS97 match, never screwed Bret, and allowed Bret to do a retirement speech the next night on RAW? WWF World Title is demeaned beyond words as the World Champion chose to walk away. WWF business would have been damaged as heel McMahon would have been unable to feud with Austin. It would've been, to be generous, the worst possible business move. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 19, 2005 Eddie Guerrero being one of the most over guys in WWE at the moment makes Russo look even worst (if that's possible) for saying what he did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 19, 2005 In regards to the initial post, I DO think Booker would've been WCW World Champion if the lawsuit never happened. The lawsuit MIGHT have been a factor, but I think that WCW would've had to put the belt on him at some point. You know, I've always wondered what would've happened if Booker T had joined the WWF instead of Ahmed Johnson. He was superior to Ahmed in EVERY respect and would've been massively over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 19, 2005 In regards to the initial post, I DO think Booker would've been WCW World Champion if the lawsuit never happened. The lawsuit MIGHT have been a factor, but I think that WCW would've had to put the belt on him at some point. You know, I've always wondered what would've happened if Booker T had joined the WWF instead of Ahmed Johnson. He was superior to Ahmed in EVERY respect and would've been massively over. He wasn't ready to be a solo at that point, I don't think. And Ahmed's appeal was that he, at the time, had an unGodly physique. If Booker went to the WWF, he would never won the World Title, honestly. Ever. As for Russo's comments --- Rey's constant heat should have disproven his thesis nicely. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 19, 2005 He wasn't ready to be a solo at that point, I don't think. And Ahmed's appeal was that he, at the time, had an unGodly physique. If Booker went to the WWF, he would never won the World Title, honestly. Ever. Maybe, but I still think he would've done better than Ahmed with the push. As we all know, Ahmed's physique didn't last too long and his constant injuries kept him from sustaining a push. Then there's the fact he couldn't work OR talk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianGuitarist 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Here's one that got brought up on the WWE board. What if Taker hadnt been hurt at WM10? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Here's one that got brought up on the WWE board. What if Taker hadnt been hurt at WM10? Was Taker actually hurt? Wasn't he just taking some time off before coming back to feud against Underfaker in the summer? What about the Luger one? Do you guys think he would have been able to get over if he didn't "choke" in the Summerslam match against Yoko? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Some Guy 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Yes, I think that Luger would have gotten over more than he did if he won the title from Yoko at SS. IMO, with that type of push anything less than the taking the strap at the end of it woudl be a huge let down. WWF built Luger up huge with the "Lex Express" and all that shit and basically promised the world that he would take the belt and they didn't deliver on the promise. I think that Russo would have put the belt on Booker no matter what. Russo said shit about Mexican and Japanese workers, not black guys. Booker deserved the belt and would have gotten it anyway. The recism lawsuit was crazy. Walker claimed that he was being discriminated against because he was being paid less than white wrestlers like Ric Flair. RIC FLAIR! A fucking 16 time world champion being paid more than a jobber? Must be racism. Plus Booker and Stevie Ray were making way more money than they were worth to the company in 98 and 99. I think Stevie made like $750,000 or some such inflated figure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted March 22, 2005 In regards to the initial post, I DO think Booker would've been WCW World Champion if the lawsuit never happened. The lawsuit MIGHT have been a factor, but I think that WCW would've had to put the belt on him at some point. You know, I've always wondered what would've happened if Booker T had joined the WWF instead of Ahmed Johnson. He was superior to Ahmed in EVERY respect and would've been massively over. About the same thing for a few reasons: 1. Booker wasn't quite ready to be a singles guy yet 2. He ultimately would've hit the glass ceiling because black guys just aren't given much of a chance in the WWF. He would've gotten further up the card but never past I.C. Title leve. Also note that Russo was one of the bookers for TNA when Ron Killings got the belt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Stevie Ray was making $850,000 pa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 2. He ultimately would've hit the glass ceiling because black guys just aren't given much of a chance in the WWF. He would've gotten further up the card but never past I.C. Title leve. If Ahmed wouldn't have been so injury prone, he definitely would have had a run on top Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted March 22, 2005 I would doubt it. He was far too limited as a worker to ever carry a main event especially with HBK and Hart in full political mode. Plus Johnson in general is an idiot and would've fucked up somewhere down the road. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Some Guy 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Wasn't Ahmed tentatively planned to take the strap off Taker at the Canadian Stampede PPV had he not gotten injured again and replaced by Vader? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Some Guy 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 My bad, I think I may have picked that up from "useless moron" useless moron Scott Keith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
