The Minuteman Project

[Guest MikeSC]

So, any thoughts on Arizona's Minuteman Project, where citizens are guarding the border and reporting illegals crossing the border?

 

This infuriates Mexico (which is quite ironic, since they have their MILITARY posted on their Southern border to prevent others from entering Mexico) and the press seems to think that people who happen to dislike illegal immigration are nothing more than Klansmen.

 

Any thoughts on this?

-=Mike

[2GOLD 0]

So, any thoughts on Arizona's Minuteman Project, where citizens are guarding the border and reporting illegals crossing the border?

 

This infuriates Mexico (which is quite ironic, since they have their MILITARY posted on their Southern border to prevent others from entering Mexico) and the press seems to think that people who happen to dislike illegal immigration are nothing more than Klansmen.

 

Any thoughts on this?

-=Mike

 

Are they reporting or making citizens arrests?

Cause if they are just reporting, I'm perfectly fine with what they are doing. I've talked with quite a few Mexicans who really hate illegals, I mean hate them more than disgruntled white people hate them.

 

You haven't lived till you've heard a man who just got his citizenship say, "god damn illegals, always taking the jobs of us hard working Americans. Should send them all back to Mexico."

 

That was one of the few times I actually enjoyed doing news.

Most of the ones who are working hard to become legal citizens hate them because they give them a black eye. They usually just come to America, work for a bit and then leave like it's summer camp (I was told this by quite a few people, none of which were white people). And the ones trying to become citizens said it makes it nearly impossible for them to get work, which makes it next to impossible for them to become legal citizens.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

It's just reporting to the police from what members of the group have said. They've described it as a neighborhood watch kind of group.

[Guest SideFXs]

It's just reporting to the police from what members of the group have said.  They've described it as a neighborhood watch kind of group.

Yeah, but the Media is already using the term Vigilantes, to place the Minutemen in a negative light.

 

I don’t understand, getting them over there, when the government won’t protect or borders from terrorists. Something’s wrong.

 

Cheap labor and votes. This is why you can never rely on the government.

 

Politics.

[SuperJerk 0]

Are there any news articles someone can link to for more information?

 

The only legitimate complaint I can think of would be if these guys were either abusing suspected illegal immigrants, or if they are harrassing American citizens of Mexican descent, or Mexicans who are here legally.

 

Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with this, other than its a shame they even need to do it.

[Vyce 0]

the press seems to think that people who happen to dislike illegal immigration are nothing more than Klansmen.

 

That's a little broad but certain portions of the press - the usual suspects, of course - are portraying the Minutemen as if they're only a step up from a lynch mob, ready, willing and eager to brutalize the next dirty Mexican who dares step foot on this side of the border.

 

The idea of civilians patrolling the borders kind of makes me uneasy, but what can you do? Our government has shown that they absolutely won't do a goddamn thing to stop illegal immigration, and as soon as someone does suggest that measures be taken, half of the politicians (you know which ones) start crying about racial / ethnic discrimination, and the other half (you also know which ones) start talking about how these individuals are valuable members of our work force, illegal or not. It's a bit of a fucking show to require Canadians to present passports to get into this country and yet no one is doing a goddam thing about Mexico when we KNOW that some questionable individuals (read: terrorists) have come through down there.

 

All I know is, the politicians can only do this little tap dance for so long before someone gets pissed off and takes it upon themselves to handle the problem and voila, groups like the Minutemen pop up.

 

Goddamn, I just realized that Lou Dobbs has persuaded me to his side.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

The fact that the so-called American Civil Liberties Union is on the illegals side tells me all that I need to know about this situation. I say more power to the minutemen (and women)...

[LessonInMachismo 0]

The fact that the so-called American Civil Liberties Union is on the illegals side tells me all that I need to know about this situation. I say more power to the minutemen (and women)...

Proof that the ACLU's dwindling legitimacy is gone manifests itself in the fact that the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union is protecting the supposed liberties of those who are not AMERICAN, or not even IN America.

 

No, there are no abuses of chicanos, because these guys are like hanging out in the wilderness, reading magazines, waiting for border-hoppers to come their way.

[SuperJerk 0]

Proof that the ACLU's dwindling legitimacy is gone manifests itself in the fact that the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union is protecting the supposed liberties of those who are not AMERICAN, or not even IN America.

The "American" in ACLU stands for what country the organization is located in, not what nationality the organization is only supposed to care about.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

There's not a lot of coverage on major news outlets about this because it's largely a non-story at this point, but this article covers the complaints thus far registered. Excerpted:

 

TUCSON, Arizona (AP) -- Three volunteers patrolling the border for illegal immigrants were being investigated after a man told authorities he was held against his will and forced to pose for a picture holding a T-shirt with a mocking slogan.

 

The volunteers said they were members of the Minuteman Project -- a monthlong effort that has people from around the country fanned out along the border to report undocumented migrants and smugglers. Law enforcement officials have said they fear the project will lead to vigilante violence.

 

Border Patrol agents called in deputies from the Cochise County Sheriff's Office on Wednesday afternoon to report that an immigrant was detained by three men who identified themselves as project volunteers.

And later in the article:

Except for Wednesday's incident, Border Patrol officials said the volunteers have remained peaceful. However, they have continued to unwittingly trip sensors that alert the agency to possible intruders, forcing agents to respond to false alarms. Authorities said volunteers' footprints have also made if difficult for agents to track illegal immigrants.

They really shouldn't be detaining anyone in any capacity, as big a problem as border-hopping might be. Observation's okay, but seizure isn't the proper channel. Right now they seem pretty harmless, but if they generate too much interference for the actual Border Patrol, they should pack up and leave it to them again.

[Guest Brian]

The fact that the so-called American Civil Liberties Union is on the illegals side tells me all that I need to know about this situation. I say more power to the minutemen (and women)...

Proof that the ACLU's dwindling legitimacy is gone manifests itself in the fact that the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union is protecting the supposed liberties of those who are not AMERICAN, or not even IN America.

 

No, there are no abuses of chicanos, because these guys are like hanging out in the wilderness, reading magazines, waiting for border-hoppers to come their way.

Actually, they're from the AMERICAN land mass, which makes them just as much AMERICAN as you and me. We don't own that title.

[Vern Gagne 0]

The shirt read: "Bryan Barton caught an illegal alien and all I got was this T-shirt."

 

I want a t-shirt like that.

[Guest Brian]

Would the economy even be able to function without illegals?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Would the economy even be able to function without illegals?

You'd just pay a nickel more for a head of lettuce or an additional dollar for a steak dinner.

 

The "American" in ACLU stands for what country the organization is located in, not what nationality the organization is only supposed to care about.

 

Odd, because if that really was the case then I'm sure we'd hear more about the ACLU's efforts to keep State and religion separate in places like China. But hey, why should they worry about petty things like gulags when the Hicktown U.S.A. school district calls its winter recess "CHRISTmas vacation"?

 

Actually, they're from the AMERICAN land mass, which makes them just as much AMERICAN as you and me. We don't own that title.

 

They're from the NORTH AMERICAN land mass. Now, I know the ACLU supports the North American Man Boy Love Association, so I can see why you would think the way you do regarding the ACLU and geography...

[Guest MikeSC]

Proof that the ACLU's dwindling legitimacy is gone manifests itself in the fact that the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union is protecting the supposed liberties of those who are not AMERICAN, or not even IN America.

The "American" in ACLU stands for what country the organization is located in, not what nationality the organization is only supposed to care about.

Seeing as how they don't seem terribly active in Mexico or Canada --- yes, the American in ACLU is the country, not the continent.

They really shouldn't be detaining anyone in any capacity, as big a problem as border-hopping might be. Observation's okay, but seizure isn't the proper channel. Right now they seem pretty harmless, but if they generate too much interference for the actual Border Patrol, they should pack up and leave it to them again.

Seeing the bang-up job the Border Patrol has done to date --- if the mass influx of illegals didn't generate interference, there is no way they can.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

The "American" in ACLU stands for what country the organization is located in, not what nationality the organization is only supposed to care about.

 

Odd, because if that really was the case then I'm sure we'd hear more about the ACLU's efforts to keep State and religion separate in places like China.

You guys really misinterpreted my post.

 

I was talking about the ACLU not caring about the nationality of people who are subject to US law.

 

Of course they're not going to try to apply the US Bill of Rights to the Chinese government. I thought that was kind of a given.

 

 

I swear to God, 90% of the arguements around here are over semantics.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

I swear to God, 90% of the arguements around here are over semantics.

You mean like this?

 

Actually, they're from the AMERICAN land mass, which makes them just as much AMERICAN as you and me. We don't own that title.

 

But we know how that organization thinks...they WANT illegals to come in. They think the Minuteman Project's presence there is bad, period.

 

See...the worker program that the Bush administration pushed allows guest workers to come in legally, and we can keep tabs on them. Illegals want to come in, work six months to a year and then bounce out after having saved up a ton of money by living six people to one apartment. Keep in mind that these illegals are using someone else's identity to work, and that fucks the real person over. I think the MMP is trying to show that stopping border-hopping CAN be done.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Maybe if these people cared so much, they'd volunteer for the Border Patrol?

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Maybe if these people cared so much, they'd volunteer for the Border Patrol?

Join the BP on the predication that they care?

[SuperJerk 0]

I don't think the Border Patrol is ALLOWED to do its job correctly, so joining would be a futile gesture.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

What I mean is that if they're truly interested in the issue they'd make it their responsibility by seeking employment in the BP. Then you have more badges and regulations, and less cowboy law enforcement and the harassment that's bound to come with it.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Of course they're not going to try to apply the US Bill of Rights to the Chinese government.  I thought that was kind of a given.

Forget the U.S. Bill of Rights -- how about protesting throwing someone in jail for reading a Bible in their house?

 

Oh, wait. Little Bobby came into 5th period Math class with a Trapper Keeper featuring a picture of Jesus on the cover -- SIC 'EM BOYS.

 

I don't think the Border Patrol is ALLOWED to do its job correctly, so joining would be a futile gesture.

 

Agreed...

[2GOLD 0]

What I mean is that if they're truly interested in the issue they'd make it their responsibility by seeking employment in the BP. Then you have more badges and regulations, and less cowboy law enforcement and the harassment that's bound to come with it.

 

Badges?

The MMP don't need no stinkin badges.

[Guest MikeSC]

What I mean is that if they're truly interested in the issue they'd make it their responsibility by seeking employment in the BP. Then you have more badges and regulations, and less cowboy law enforcement and the harassment that's bound to come with it.

The US gov't, Bush included, doesn't WANT the BP to do its job. Period. Why would you join them if you actually want to make a difference?

You guys really misinterpreted my post.

 

I was talking about the ACLU not caring about the nationality of people who are subject to US law.

Except they're arging for Constitutional protections for people who are not covered under the Constitution.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The US gov't, Bush included, doesn't WANT the BP to do its job. Period. Why would you join them if you actually want to make a difference?

That's a seperate issue, and one that needs to be resolved in ways other than having a bunch of self-appointed supervisors using their own methods.

 

Look, I suddently turn into an iron-hearted conservative when the subject of illegal immigrants comes up. But I think having a bunch of crackpots with questionable judgment sitting at the wall isn't a great idea. Part of that is because I have a mental image of a bunch of assorted hick types, some less sober than others, staking out positions and rambling on about "sending Jose back to where he should be." However, at least an equally large reason for my position is because I honestly believe it's far from great policy, and should be discouraged.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

What I mean is that if they're truly interested in the issue they'd make it their responsibility by seeking employment in the BP.

Couldn't we say this about any protest group?

 

If those dirty pseduo-hippies really wanted to have the Evil Empire that is the United States forgive third-world debt/end sweatshops, they'd get a haircut, work their way up the corporate ladder/government and enanct legislation to forgive the debt/eliminate Nike shops in China...

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Couldn't we say this about any protest group?

No, because protesters are too lazy to actually do the work. These guys are at least proving themselves able.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

But they spend all that time making those "NO BLOOD FOR OIL" posters -- that must account for something...

[Guest MikeSC]

The US gov't, Bush included, doesn't WANT the BP to do its job. Period. Why would you join them if you actually want to make a difference?

That's a seperate issue, and one that needs to be resolved in ways other than having a bunch of self-appointed supervisors using their own methods.

 

Look, I suddently turn into an iron-hearted conservative when the subject of illegal immigrants comes up. But I think having a bunch of crackpots with questionable judgment sitting at the wall isn't a great idea. Part of that is because I have a mental image of a bunch of assorted hick types, some less sober than others, staking out positions and rambling on about "sending Jose back to where he should be." However, at least an equally large reason for my position is because I honestly believe it's far from great policy, and should be discouraged.

"Questionable judgment"?

 

If somebody is crossing the border where they catch them, they are already breaking the law since there are designated locations for border crossing.

 

If the BP won't or can't do its job, I feel it's incredibly patriotic for citizens to do it, free of charge.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

You guys really misinterpreted my post.

 

I was talking about the ACLU not caring about the nationality of people who are subject to US law.

Except they're arging for Constitutional protections for people who are not covered under the Constitution.

Many people believe that the US government should follow its own rules whether it is dealing with actual US citizens or not.