The OaO NFL Draft 2005 Thread

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I agree with you on Rodgers, YPoV, it was probably the best pick they could have made at that point. Rodgers sits behind Favre this year and is immediately the starter next.

 

I really hope that Ronnie Brown makes the biggest impact, hard to say really as the Dolphins STILL need a QB. Unless Brock Berlin can be anything. Does anyone have a clue about this guy? I honestly can't remember seeing him play at all.

 

The more I think about it the more I like the Lions drafting Mike Williams. While I do still think they are fools not to take Rodgers, with the addition of Williams they are pretty much set on the offensive side of the ball. People have said all along that if Harrington had the weapons then he would be able to show how talented he really is. This is his put up or get out year. If he can't get it done with the guys he has around him now he can't get it done period. One other pick I liked a lot Sunday was the Lions taking Dan Orlovsky (sp?). I have a feeling he will be their starter sooner rather than later.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I don't see why Donahue assumed a 2nd pick AND LT should be considered good value for Travis Henry. I like Henry just fine, but solid RB's just aren't THAT rare. I'd take an LT OR a 2nd round pick --- but expecting both? Tom was bloody insane.

 

BTW, who the heck are the backup QB's for Buffalo?

      -=Mike

Especially with the number of quality RBs in the draft this year. He really should have jumped on that trade with Arizona when he had the chance.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Wow I'm shocked Damaramu managed to make the focus of this thread to be about Jason White. Shocked. Really. Didn't see it coming.

Hey I've tried repeatedly to bring up Mark Clayton. But there's no controversy there. Everyone knows he rules and will be good. With White there is controversy and a better discussion.

I mean with Clayton I just say "He's awesome and will be a solid NFL player" and everyone says "I know."

You're acting like bringing up OTHER OU football players makes you look any better.

 

I still like the Rodgers pick for the Packers. When you have a potential #1 drop down to 24, your QB was actually thinking of retiring THIS Year, and that draft pick has the chance to learn under one of the best, it's not too bad. They couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an immediate impact player anyway, might as well go for the most important offensive position. What would a guy like Dan Cody have done for you this year? Not that great, certainly not enough to pass up on a guy like Rodgers who might be able to do so much more for the future. Unlike VX, I'm not sold on guys like Craig Nall.

 

Stupid Bills didn't get rid of Henry when they had the chance, now they might get nothing for him. They were being offered what they needed, a LT and they STILL didn't take it. Sometimes Tom Donahoe can be a real moron.

I don't see why Donahue assumed a 2nd pick AND LT should be considered good value for Travis Henry. I like Henry just fine, but solid RB's just aren't THAT rare. I'd take an LT OR a 2nd round pick --- but expecting both? Tom was bloody insane.

 

BTW, who the heck are the backup QB's for Buffalo?

-=Mike

One of the backups is Kelly Holcomb.

[Damaramu 0]

So are they throwing JP Losman out their in Buffalo? I mean how much experience has he had? He didn't get to practice at all last season did he?

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Pretty sure he has 0 NFL experience, he broke his (leg, arm?) last year and never had a chance to get any game time. Yes, they are planning on throwing him to the wolves. Pretty stupid when you consider that Buffalo plays in the toughest division in the NFL...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

He played a game against New England and threw an INT I think, or fumbled I don't remember.

 

Hey, he has a strong arm and is pretty mobile. They say if he stayed in College another year he would have been a good candidate to be the top pick in this year's draft. Whether that means last year's draft was deep or this year's shallow, I don't know.

 

He has two *potential* pro bowlers at wideout, a great RB, and too bad they didn't get a LT because that would have made the transition real easy for him.

[Damaramu 0]

I really hope that Ronnie Brown makes the biggest impact, hard to say really as the Dolphins STILL need a QB. Unless Brock Berlin can be anything. Does anyone have a clue about this guy? I honestly can't remember seeing him play at all.

Berlin? He was the QB at Miami. So he's not far from home but seriously he was no good at Miami. Except maybe that game against Louisville. Who knows though.......has anyone just been absolutely AWFUL in college and just sucked hard and then become an NFL star? I'm not talking about mediocre I'm talking about a huge nobody that sucked.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Wow I'm shocked Damaramu managed to make the focus of this thread to be about Jason White. Shocked. Really. Didn't see it coming.

Hey I've tried repeatedly to bring up Mark Clayton. But there's no controversy there. Everyone knows he rules and will be good. With White there is controversy and a better discussion.

I mean with Clayton I just say "He's awesome and will be a solid NFL player" and everyone says "I know."

You're acting like bringing up OTHER OU football players makes you look any better.

 

I still like the Rodgers pick for the Packers. When you have a potential #1 drop down to 24, your QB was actually thinking of retiring THIS Year, and that draft pick has the chance to learn under one of the best, it's not too bad. They couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an immediate impact player anyway, might as well go for the most important offensive position. What would a guy like Dan Cody have done for you this year? Not that great, certainly not enough to pass up on a guy like Rodgers who might be able to do so much more for the future. Unlike VX, I'm not sold on guys like Craig Nall.

I see a hell of a lot of potential in Nall, and count in the fact he's displayed much of the same mobility and arm strength that Favre has when he's been put into games, not to mention already learning about 2 1/2 years under him, and he's worth a shot. There were several other players available in various defensive positions that they could have taken.. Marlin Jackson, Shaun Cody, Kevin Burnett were all still available. One of the more particularly frustrating things was that Green Bay had barely scouted him, by all reports.. They were just going off the consensus everyone else had on Rodgers. Not like that would have mattered much with Sleeping Sherman, but it was totally unexpected because they had been looking at a defensive player with their first pick with ALL the losses they had on that side of the ball (and the fact that they only just re-signed Hannibal Navies after the draft probably clues in that they were looking to get an impact OLB, possibly someone like Thomas Davis if they had the chance to trade up), then all of a sudden someone who a lot of people were looking at as the best QB in this draft (including myself... although this draft was pretty weak at the position) just falls to them and they went eh, why not. Look at their whole draft and tell me if any of these picks seem to make sense:

 

Round Overall Player/Notes 

 

1 24  QB Aaron Rodgers, Cal

 

2      51  S/CB Nick Collins, Bethune-Cookman

 

2      58  WR/KR Terrence Murphy, Texas A&M

 

4    115  S Marviel Underwood, San Diego State

 

4    125  LB Brady Poppinga, BYU

 

5    143  C/G Junius Coston, North Carolina A&T

 

5    167  CB Micheal Hawkins, Oklahoma

 

6    180  DE Mike Montgomery, Texas A&M

 

6    195  WR Craig Bragg, UCLA

 

7    245  LB Kurt Campbell, Albany

 

7    246  G Will Whitticker, Michigan State

 

When Nick Collins was taken, there were still a ton of much better players at his position they could have taken. Most of these guys all came from smaller schools as well, with the exception of Michael Hawkins, Bragg, and Rodgers of course.

"It sounds silly to keep repeating myself," Thompson said from the media auditorium at Lambeau Field, just minutes after the selection of Rodgers. "We really and truly wanted to take the best football player on the board, and we felt like he was the best football player on the board."

 

Exactly how high Rodgers rated on the Packers' draft board, Thompson wouldn't reveal. However, he did note that the Packers wouldn't have taken a quarterback at the 24th spot had Rodgers, and presumably Smith, been off the board by the time Green Bay was on the clock.

 

"He was up pretty high, pretty close to the ceiling there," Thompson said. "You kind of let the draft and the board just work. If things fall a certain way, then you have a decision to make. In this particular case it fell a certain way where the decision was really pretty easy."

There's proof right there.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

All that means is that they didn't consider Jason Campbell/Charlie Frye etc as better than any of the other available players.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Yeah they made a value pick, and that's the best situation for Rodgers since with the drop a lot of pressure is off and he also gets to adapt slowly into the NFL, on account of the fact that he has an ironman playing ahead of him. The upside to drafting a QB for the future since you know you will need one definitely is more important than drafting a defensive starter that might not even make an impact his rookie year, as few do. This was the right pick.

 

I can't comment on the rest of the draft, I was just speaking in terms of their first pick.

[Guest Vitamin X]

... therefore proving my point that Rodgers was an impulsive pick more than anything, going for value over need which is not what you should be looking for for a team that's lost so much in free agency and is completely falling apart.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I predict that Favre will finally have the major injury he's never had in his career and Nall will start and keep the offense rolling, therefore making Rodgers expendable.

[Guest El Satanico]

The problem with drafting solely for need, is that you will start reaching on players that shouldn't be drafted as high.

 

If there's two or more players that are close in value, then yes go for the need.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah but doesn't Brett Farve do a lot of things technically wrong? I mean from what I've heard the only person that can do what Brett Farve does is.......Farve. I mean is Rodgers really learning much about being a great NFL QB when Farve supposedly has this unorthodox style that's technically wrong.

 

I get this technical stuff from this show they had where all of his former coaches were talking about that.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Hey, Dama made a good point. That's actually what I was going to say, but kept forgetting. The only person who can do the things Brett Favre does is Brett Favre. He'll often times force throws into double coverage when he knows better than to do that (and still zing it in there because of the arm strength), he'll hold on to the ball and slip away from tacklers forever and bomb it out to someone instead of looking for a short dump-out gain, and he'll even play with a concussion (and still get a touchdown).

 

I think it'll end up largely a case of "do as I say, not as I do", because Brett can play conservatively when he feels like it, but a lot of how he plays is also on instinct and emotion, and sometimes it goes against his better judgment. His dropbacks and throws are PERFECT, though.. Rarely in the NFL do you see as perfect a spiral being thrown by anyone else not named Manning, Brady or Culpepper, and maybe only Culpepper can throw it as nicely while on the run (ok, I'll give Vick that credit as well and McNabb too). I was watching video of Aaron Rodgers though, and I was gacking at the zip he put on the ball in college, practically none of the throws I saw stayed stable in the air, all of them were wobbly to some point, and this was his highlight film.

[Guest MikeSC]

So are they throwing JP Losman out their in Buffalo? I mean how much experience has he had? He didn't get to practice at all last season did he?

They believe he has all of the tools to be really good. He does have a solid RB to take the load off of him, but he might be a better option than Bledsoe, who was never that great when it came to making quick reads.

  ... therefore proving my point that Rodgers was an impulsive pick more than anything, going for value over need which is not what you should be looking for for a team that's lost so much in free agency and is completely falling apart.

However, there is a huge plus in taking value over need. You can trade away talent you may not need (the Lions selection of Mike Williams was a very smart choice, for example). You may not be able to trade a player you needed at draft time who is just not that great.

-=Mike

[Guest Vitamin X]

  ... therefore proving my point that Rodgers was an impulsive pick more than anything, going for value over need which is not what you should be looking for for a team that's lost so much in free agency and is completely falling apart.

However, there is a huge plus in taking value over need. You can trade away talent you may not need (the Lions selection of Mike Williams was a very smart choice, for example). You may not be able to trade a player you needed at draft time who is just not that great.

-=Mike

Trading a player would involve having to sign the first round choice to a big first-round contract as well. Not to mention he's a quarterback, so he'll basically just be taking up cap space that could very realistically have been used on a defensive squad that still needs quite a bit of help.

 

Very rarely have I ever been a fan of rebuilding a franchise around a quarterback though, I've always been more for drafting big on defense and on the line and acquiring some veteran skill players, THEN drafting impact players on offense. The Packers' roster situation is also a mess with their starting TE and starting WR on contract holdouts, as well as a defense full of holes, while only being a couple million dollars under the cap, so it's possible that the 11 draft picks they made won't even be able to sign with the team...

 

And again, it's like I said, drafting a QB when there was no need for one right away instead of building a team that desperately needs bodies on defense and in the trenches is silly. Aaron Rodgers is the best they could find? What about next year? There's always talented sleeper QB's they could pick up any year. Rodgers isn't even going to have any trade value until he's signed, and who wants to trade anything worth something for him? I mean, unless Sleeping Sherman controls GM duties in other teams, of course.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I'm only skimming this garbage at this point in the thread...

 

but Donahoe didn't expect anywhere near that much for Henry.

 

He just didn't want LJ Shelton and his 3 million dollar contract, since he BLOWS.

 

HE said they would have taken a 3rd round for Henry...but no one offered that much. He's hurt all the time afterall.

 

 

On Losman: He was practicing half way through the year and got into 4 or 5 games at the end during garbage time, mostly just handing off and practicing playcalling and shit.

 

They seem very prepared to hand him the team since Bledsoe pooped the bed again. #1 special teams, #2 Defense (and this year they actually took the ball away), Willis running for 13 TDs and 1100 yards in 11 starts, Evans catching another 9 TDs as a rookie...and the offense still ranked at the bottom and they missed the playoffs again.

 

No one. And I mean NO ONE. was a downgrade at QB at this point. Hell...Bledsoe got sacked LESS last year than ANY YEAR OF HIS CAREER...and he still sucked.

 

God...have fun Dallas.

[Guest Vitamin X]

And to think Bledsoe was taken over Favre in the `91 draft...

[lomasmoney 0]

That's amazing since Bledsoe was drafted in 1993

[Guest Vitamin X]

Oops. Nevermind.

 

It was Todd Marinovich and Dan McGwire that were drafted ahead of Favre. Drew Bledsoe was drafted ahead of someone much better than he was though, I seem to remember that....

 

EDIT: Mark Brunell and Trent Green, maybe?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I think Trent Green was taken after him...but he was practically taken last in the draft IIRC.

[Guest Vitamin X]

222nd out of 224, yep.

 

In fact, that 8th round ended up pretty damn solid. Aside from Trent Green, there was also WR Troy Brown to NE at 198, DE Chad Brown at 199, P Craig Hentrich (I know, but he was a damn good punter) by the Jets at 200, LB Jessie Armstead by the Giants at 207, LB Lamont Hollinquist by the Redskins at 212, SS Blaine Bishop by the Houston Oilers at 214, and QB Elvis Grbac (anyone remember him? The guy Green replaced?) at 219.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Holy shit, that's a solid fucking round right there. No outright HOF members, but all solid starters that still play in the NFL, well mostly. They all had good careers though.

[iggymcfly 0]

I actually think that Rodgers was a very good pick, and not because of that "value over need" garbage either. The fact is that Brett Favre is washed up. He's already slipped to the point where he's no more than an average quarterback. He's got one more year left, or two at the absolute most, and the Packers are smart to pick up a QB at a time when they won't have to throw him directly into the fire.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I actually think that Rodgers was a very good pick, and not because of that "value over need" garbage either. The fact is that Brett Favre is washed up. He's already slipped to the point where he's no more than an average quarterback. He's got one more year left, or two at the absolute most, and the Packers are smart to pick up a QB at a time when they won't have to throw him directly into the fire.

I agree.

 

I've been saying it for 3 years now...so I agree.

[Guest Vitamin X]

If Favre is "washed up" now, then he was never that great a QB to begin with. His numbers lately have been as good or better than all but his MVP years, and he still has the arm. He's still arguably a top 5 QB, and if not, certainly in the top 10. We already had this discussion during last season, though.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Numbers are fine and all...but the guy who used to go out and make the plays when they needed to be made...now floats INTs 8 yards passed his recievers.

[tominator89 0]

However, there is a huge plus in taking value over need. You can trade away talent you may not need (the Lions selection of Mike Williams was a very smart choice, for example). You may not be able to trade a player you needed at draft time who is just not that great.

This is true. As a Philly fan, it would seem as though we can't get a single thing for Freddie Mitchell.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Numbers are fine and all...but the guy who used to go out and make the plays when they needed to be made...now floats INTs 8 yards passed his recievers.

He's always done that, though.. Holmgren was the man who was able to keep him under control from making such boneheaded plays, but he still made him.