What is the WWE?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Know what would be cool?

 

If they started off Smackdown with, say, right at the climax of a match, John Cena turning on Rey Mysterio and siding with JBL and the crowd cheering. Then, you get "2 hours earlier" and start the show off with JBL challenging John Cena to a tag match, where it would be Eddie/JBL vs. Cena/Rey, and what would lead to Cena turning on Rey and him and JBL being faces. (as an example of the concept at work)

[Brett Favre 0]

Memento?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It's been used a lot on TV and in movies. Never in wrestling, though. Just something to think about - outside the box type stuff. What can wrestling be? It can be sport, it can be shakespeare, it can be anything... and what ever it can be, somehow someway, the WWE ain't it. They're just floating around in Limbo. That's what this thread is for, to see how far we can take it, and where we want it to go.

[CanadianChick 0]

With all the superhero stuff going around, could a female superhero work in WWE? You know, sorta like Chyna, but hopefully better.

[Brett Favre 0]

How about 10 minutes of each wrestler's point of view throughout the night. What he does, says, and just make the show all about that wrestler for that amount of time. All this leads up the match at the end of the night, or up to the match the guy has.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

How about the WWE totally goes the TV route and starts focusing on different genres every months? Like, have Regals father die and the murderer turns out to be a WWE superstar, so he becomes a detective to find out who did it, and every match ends up giving him a clue, and every week for a month he gets closer and closer, and when he finds the killer, they have a match on PPV.

[Brett Favre 0]

Each year, wrestling would be like sports where there is a season and an offseason. During the season, it would be like a 64 man tournament (like the NCAA) with storylines brewing, wrestlers pulling for upsets to have an easier route to the championship, and each week there's like 2 matches. At the end when there is a winner, he becomes champ, and defends it the next year. That would be very sport like.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The superhero route for a woman would work best because it gives a "logical"* reason for why a smaller woman could beat a bigger man. Whether she is stronger, to where one punch could send a wrestler across the ring, or faster where the wrestler throws really slow punches and she moves around him and dodges it and they do some whacky production stuff that makes it look like she's going superfast for the home audience.

 

(*Logic in terms of the defined/proposed universe, not the current one).

 

A "wrestler POV" cam would be swank, and perhaps even a voice-over/monologue/"thinking" deal where we can hear his/her thoughts as they are backstage.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think it would be cool if they had this HUUUUGE month-long tournament that they focused-on all year round that took place, say, in November. It would be like the fucking Kumute in Bloodsport, where wrestlers from all over the world try to compete. The matches in every other month would be wrestlers trying to fight for a spot in the tournament where the winner would be granted immortal-life, or something like HIGHLANDER. Fuck yeah!

 

I also think the WWE should build their own arena, customized for wrestling.

[Brett Favre 0]

They can have different arenas in different regions. Each region has its own arena, where some arenas are home ring advantage (ex. HBK in Texas). And I like the idea of having qualifying throughout the year to enter this tourney.

[Guest Shadow]

What would a wrestling customized arena look like?

[Brett Favre 0]

There's many options. If you go with the region thing, each arena can have it's own identity. Crowds up close in one, further away in others. When it's up close, the crowd favorite/hometown guy would have more of an advantage. When it's further away, even when you're up against the hometown guy, you have a better chance because the crowd will not distract you as much.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think the ring would rise from under the ground. The seats would be much closer the ring and would be more elevated/bleacher-style. Fuck the hockey arena style of so many seats on the ground. It would be a lot like the sumo halls in Japan. The entrances would be much cooler too and more adaptable. And the ceiling would retract. And there would be lots of columns, like a fucking roman setting. And maybe each seat would have a voting panel, like Americas Funniest Home Videos, where fans can vote on shit.

[Ted the Poster 0]

Rudo ruined his own thread.

[Red Baron 0]

Rudo ruined his own thread.

Agreed.

 

He went from wrestling to something from Pokemon/Dragon Ball Z.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

No, Dragonball's Strongest Under the Heavens tournaments always took place on a simple elevated tiled white square. Fights went until someone passed out, gave up, or went out of the ring

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Eh, I wasn't getting much out of anybody cept for Shadow, so I pressed the abort button. People here just aren't thinkin on the right level...cept for Masked Man of Mystery; he knows the score. (Oh, and you guys certainly aren't helping!)

 

I think an entire RAW where guys are transformed into sock puppets would work.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I'd like to see WWE return to the wrestling emphasis like the NWA had. Characters were there, but it looked like they also had rankings. The weight classes should be emphasized, as previously mentioned, with the option for a cruiser to go heavy ala Jushin Liger or a heavy to go cruiser ala Matt Hardy. This can actually give you new babyfaces as say, Rene Dupree decides to cut weight and learn the cruiser style and he can be humbled by early losses to heel cruisers who use their speed advantage or for a Paul London to have to use his speed against the Undertakers of the world. Screw the mainstream audience, the marquee says wrestling and that should be empahsis. People flocked to wrestling shows back in the day and if you put together a good enough product they still will. If John Cena wants to do rap CDs, let him, but this can be used in story as he won't be training as much while recording so he may suffer losses. Kill the dumb gimmicks like Matt Morgan's. Who cares that he "stutters?" Characters like Cena's current one, JBL's, etc. are much better suited to wrestling purposes. As for people like Ultimo Dragon who can't really speak English, play up how WWE is the biggest wrestling promotion in the world and while he's glad he held 9 belts once, he wants to prove himself against what should be the very best in the world. I'd also like to see tournaments like King of the Ring and America's X Cup. Putting the best of each dountry or area together can be used for storyline as well as say Cena and JBL don't trust each other, and there is tension between them backstage and in the ring, they start working together for the pride of the USA and whatnot.

[iggymcfly 0]

If you want to know what "direction" the WWE's going in right now, its basically that of a traditional 80's NWA-style wrestling promotion, but with lots of good matches on TV. That's it. There's no fancy new concept or marketing slogan. They're not trying to be anything "different." They're just trying to work as a basic, classic, wrestling promotion.

 

That's what's up with the traditional face/heel roles, nine month title reigns, and rather simplistic character development. Really, if they want to improve business, they don't need any gimmicks, and they don't need any catchy slogans. What they need to do is write decent feuds, and have a little bit of character development.

 

For instance, when HHH loses the World Title clean to Batista at Wrestlemania, it should affect his character. It should make him paranoid and angry, and he should be desperate to try to take Batista down. Instead, the writers got lazy, and they're just like "well, let's have HHH talk about hitting the Pedigree, and then have Batista kick out. That will get him over. Twice a year, they'll write a decent feud for a few months, and the rest of the time, they're just lazy as fuck.

 

It's not just HHH either. They're doing the same thing with JBL on Smackdown. He was the longest reigning champion since 1996, so they job him out in ten minutes, and then have him win a tournament to get another title shot. It just makes no sense. Their shows aren't that bad, but if they can't write decent main event feuds, business will remain mediocre.

 

Oh, and NO ONE wants to see murder angles on WWE television. I didn't even like the "Who ran over Austin" angle.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Ive actually brought this exact point up in other forums, and its clear that there are limited ideas when it comes to presenting a different product.

 

I believe they will never generate huge business by focusing heavily on the wrestling aspect. If you look at the down periods in the business, it generally coincides with the heavier emphasis on the in-ring product.

 

The two major booms happened under the Hulkamania run, which featured very little good wrestling, and focused more on creating cartoonish characters. And again in the Attitude era which featured a lot of TV, and short matches. Granted we did get a lot of good wrestling in the latter era, but the focus was definately on the stuff going on outside the match itself.

 

I think the way to answer this question is to understand who the WWE fanbase really is. Ive always thought, they hooked kids in the 80s, lost those kids in the eraly 90s (kids were high school age) and then the NWO and the Attitude deal brought those same fans from the 80s, only now they presented a product that appealed to those kids who were now well into their teens.

 

If you go by that logic, which I'll admit could be faulty, then their fanbase is currently in the 20s. The idea of DX/toilet type humour doesn't appeal, and they're well beyond the cartoon characters being worth paying to see (wel, except Hogan).

 

I think with the two brands, they should definately work to make them appear very different. Maybe make RAW the more serious show, leave guys like HHH there, and dont necessarily just focus on wrestling, but just make it more serious. On SD, it would be a little more kid friendly, its on at an earlier time, and they could feature guys with more character. Not saying we need clowns and plumbers again, but guys like Hurricane and Rey would be a good fit for what I'm talking about.

 

At least that way they could appeal to a broader base.

 

However, I really dont think that would actually do very much to improve business, it would probably just maintain what they currently have. In order to reaally get new fans, they need to re-invent what wrestling is. Both the 80s and 90s booms happened in part (I believe anyway) because they made wrestling different. So if you were a person who haden't watched wrestlign in some time, you would pass by and go "hey that looks different". Until that happens, I dont think wrestling will ever gain in popularity like it did before.

 

Wish I had a better answer, but I just dont.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Exactly. The Cena/JBL feud has potential if they do it right, but they won't because they're WWE. This is a classic man of the people vs high society, and the focus is on a spinnign belt and a rap CD. The tournament shouldn

t have happened, really, it should be JBL going right back after him. This Eddie/Rey thing will also blow up in their faces because both of them are so over and they won't screw with Eddie's T shirt selling ability so they won't change him that much. WWE writers suck, man.

[Taker666 0]

Then comes the sport aspect of it.  From the sound of the way I want the writing, it may sound like it would be a 30/70 thing... and it is.  There shouldn't be so many matches on RAW.  There's no point to them and they force the writing team to come up with lame reasons why the match is happening and it takes the importance off of wins.  PPV's are where the matches should happen, because in the end it's what the fans ultimately want to see and they should have to pay to see it.

(more later)

but the WWE is a Pro-Wrestling Company. your saying the only way fans will be able to see any kind of wrestling at all is by paying for it?. If there arn't any matches on Raw or SmackDown than there will be no reason for fans to attend the events or watch their programs. taking away matches on a wrestling show is really a dumb idea IMO. might aswell not have a ring on the shows than.

You're a bit of a fucking idiot, aren't you?

and judging by some of the bullshit you came up with in this thread, your calling me a fucking idiot?

 

so I misread your post. calm fucking down. I didn't go down that path with you, don't go down that path with me.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Bad Television.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Every post you have made in this thread has been bad. And there's a difference between misreading and not reading a post, had you actually read my post you would have figured out what I meant even if you had misread a line or two. Fuck off.

 

The WWE being "old school" right now is laughable, and IMO is just another word for directionless and basic. If they were being "80's NWA" right now, then why does the DIVA search still exist? What's the deal with Kane and Lita? If they're being old school, they sure aren't being consistent with it.

 

That poor HHH having to do what the writers tell him... oh wait, he doesn't. He came up with that dumbass storyline himself. Why can't HHH just crumble after a loss and go away for a while? Why would he become paranoid anyways? Don't you become paranoid when you have the power since you feel everyone wants what you have?

 

My point isn't to do murder angles, my point is to create a WWE where murder angles would be accepted and would "work". But missing the point isn't anything unfamiliar...eh?

 

I defend this forum from people who say this place is full of dumbasses, but goddamn if it ain't a hard job.

[what 0]

Then comes the sport aspect of it.  From the sound of the way I want the writing, it may sound like it would be a 30/70 thing... and it is.  There shouldn't be so many matches on RAW. There's no point to them and they force the writing team to come up with lame reasons why the match is happening and it takes the importance off of wins.  PPV's are where the matches should happen, because in the end it's what the fans ultimately want to see and they should have to pay to see it.

(more later)

but the WWE is a Pro-Wrestling Company. your saying the only way fans will be able to see any kind of wrestling at all is by paying for it?. If there arn't any matches on Raw or SmackDown than there will be no reason for fans to attend the events or watch their programs. taking away matches on a wrestling show is really a dumb idea IMO. might aswell not have a ring on the shows than.

You're a bit of a fucking idiot, aren't you?

and judging by some of the bullshit you came up with in this thread, your calling me a fucking idiot?

 

so I misread your post. calm fucking down. I didn't go down that path with you, don't go down that path with me.

IZZ PRO WRESTLER LIKE BABY RUFF?

 

You shouldn't be telling anyone about bad posts ever, dude.

[Ravenbomb 0]

every OTHER show has "Previously, on *insert show name here" bits before their episodes, why not Raw?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

YES.

 

JR would be great doing that in his non-JR voice. Or if they get Majel Barrett to do it, that would be sweet!

[Guest Ransome]

However, I really dont think that would actually do very much to improve business, it would probably just maintain what they currently have. In order to reaally get new fans, they need to re-invent what wrestling is. Both the 80s and 90s booms happened in part (I believe anyway) because they made wrestling different. So if you were a person who haden't watched wrestlign in some time, you would pass by and go "hey that looks different". Until that happens, I dont think wrestling will ever gain in popularity like it did before.

I agree, and I think a gradual transition to a more athletic-based in-ring product would be as good a change as any. They seemed to tease this direction by having Brock vs Angle mainevent WM XIX and bringing up their NCAA history, but nothing much has eventuated since then. I'd like them to try ditching the 'sportz entertainment' and emphasising the 'sport', a no-frills wrestling promotion in the same vein as ROH. That's not to say it can't be comedic or can't have some half-naked girls in the background, but the drama and serious nature of the matches should be brought to the forefront. People still talk about Bret Hart vs Steve Austin at WM 13 because the intensity feels 'real', and I think they should try and emulate that degree of reality in today's main events.

 

Of course, it would require a total overhaul of their current ideology, and it won't instantly draw, but they need to be taking risks if they'll ever progress, rather than resorting to the quick-fix late-80s style gimmicks like retarded wrestlers, stuttering wrestlers and poetry-writing monsters.

[Guest Brian]

The WWE is the McMahons. It's their vision over doing what's good for the company; it's their stubborn ways that dictate how business gets done; it's their family that loves to hog the screen and the spotlight; it's their family that owns the top spot (through the son-in-law); it's their family that's re-writing the history of the company. And that history will center around the McMahons too, in some fashion or another. As long as the WWe exists, it's going to be a McMahon-oriented product, and it's never going to evolve past that. And they will continue to acknowledge that.

 

Is that the answer you wanted?

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Great topic, really interesting stuff from Rudo and Shadow. I don't get the comparison at all in regards to whoever compared modern WWE to 80's era NWA, but I might have somehow missed the zombie, the dancing homosexuals (though I guess the Dynamic Dudes may count), the diva search and the 37 yearly pay-per-views that the NWA used to promote.

 

There really is no answer to the question "Who is the WWE" right now. The best answer would probably be that it is a company clinging to concepts of the last boom period thinking that all it will take is a new star or two to bring the ratings and attendance back to record levels.

 

The problem, as I have said countless times, is that it isn't the actors that are holding WWE back, it is the play. What has really changed since the WWE was doing great business?

 

The presentation? No. Same entrance set, same ring style, same graphics theme. If I put in a video of Raw and watch the introduction to the show, it's pretty tough to tell if it is from 1999 or 2005. It's Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler talking over a warzone type setting with red, black and silver color themes with a giant screen in the background.

 

The television format? No. A combination of backstage segments, in ring promos and world class matches. The formula is tired.

 

The vibe? No, it's still very much attitude inspired.

 

When you hear WWE talk, you hear that they are looking for "The Next Rock", "The Next Goldberg" and "The Next Steve Austin" when they mention Randy Orton, Batista and John Cena respectively. You get the feeling that they think painting my number and plugging these guys into the roles of departed stars is going to turn business around. When they do this though all they do is set their young talent up in shoes that they could never hope to fill. In 1995 it was all about "The Next Hogan" and it nearly put WWE out of business. WWE shouldn't be concerned with the next Rock, they should be concerned with the first John Cena, and the first Batista, and the first Randy Orton. They push these old fossils like Hogan and Austin and then wonder why the crowd is too exhausted too even cheer John Cena, who's being counted on to carry the company into the future.

 

The thing that kills me too is that WWE has under their contract the kind of minds that would stand a better chance at turning WWE around than anyone on the planet, but they won't even utilize their brains. If I were starting a promotion from scratch, I could not think of any two people that I would rather have on my side than Jim Cornette and Paul Heyman. Personal differences aside, this is a dream team. You've got Jim Cornette, who's rooted in tradition and single handedly turns one of the greenest rosters in the country into what regularly gets votes from Observer voters as the best weekly wrestling television program on the planet. On the other hand, you've got the progressive Paul Heyman who understands the need for a drastic change in the way wrestling is presented, but needs someone like Jim Cornette to ground him just as Cornette would need Heyman to keep his ideas from being polarizingly old fashioned. On top of that you've got Vince McMahon to oversee the operation, and two guys in Eric Bischoff and Ric Flair who despite criticism have had some incredible ideas over the years. With these kinds of minds under the WWE umbrella, it's just shocking that Stephanie McMahon and some comic book geek seem to weild the most creative power.

 

If you look at wrestling in America since around the mid 80's, nothing has become popular until it did something dramatically different with the way wrestling was presented. The Mid-South got SMOKINGLY hot when it started presenting a modern style of slick television with early sports-entertainmentish elements. The WWF got hot when it truly went national and presented a child friendly, cartoonish "Rock n' Wrestling" style. Smokey Mountain got hot when it brought back to the territorial style with modern elements. ECW brought Japanese elements and adult storylines to the table and became a cult phenominon. When WWE was nearly dying from sticking to the cartoonish mold for too long, they had no choice but to make a change and their newly found "Attitude" saved the company and led it to the most prosperous period ever.

 

John Cena and Batista aren't going to make wrestling surge in popularity on their own. Some sort of drastic change in the presentation and feel of the company needs to be the vehicle for these two men to build off of. The problem is, the envelope was pushed so far during the last boom that that route is now dead. The new styles in cruiserweight and lucha that had never been seen in a major American promotion until the Monday Night Wars were a help to WCW, but there is nothing like that today waiting in the wings. Hardcore wrestling was a novelty that is thankfully dead, but there are no novelties waiting to replace it. WWE had balls, and things like the Super Bowl ad they ran did a lot for them. Vince McMahon was invincible, and then the XFL ruined that image.

 

Long story short, it's going to be pretty damn hard.

 

The way I would like to see WWE retooled to turn things around is as follows, and I'm not saying some of these things would be best for me as a fan, but I think that as business moves for WWE they might work:

 

-The World Title is defended only on pay-per-view. Title defenses mean nothing these days. No one has to earn one. Why should anyone care that Edge has a title shot whenever he wants it when Christian didn't even win the ladder match and is getting one before him. A Hulk Hogan title defense, or even a Hogan appearance, used to be a major deal. A JBL title defense was a weekly occurence. Being the champion should give a guy the right to rest, and scout his opponent. A title defense used to be a draw in itself, these days a major fued has to be involved or else it is meaningless. Defend the titles ONLY on pay-per-view.

 

- Ax the midcard belts and bring back the television title. Bring it back to its roots, and have it defended every week on television. Use it as an investment in a young star WWE has faith in like the NWA did for Sting, Arn Anderson, The Great Muta and Steve Austin. Implement a provision where ten successful defenses automatically grants the champion a World Title shot.

 

- Bring back time limits. What do you do to prolong a fued? Or feature a world class match without having to job out a strong wrestler? It's easy, bring back the time limit.

 

- Bring back jobber matches. People complain and complain that this would never work, but it is necessary in my opinion and the more wrestling starts to revert back to the slower, old school style, the more practical this becomes. It's just not smart to have a roster comprised entirely of stars and feature ten matches in prime time a week where someone has to job and look weak. It's counterproductive and keeps the entire roster in neutral because as one part gets stronger from a win, another must always get weaker from a loss. Jobbers are essential these days, especially in the cases of debuting talent. Matt Morgan killed some scub on Smackdown and looked tremendous. If he would have fought a Smackdown star, he would have been obligated to give them a bunch of offense and had a weak debut. The Heart Throbs had no one to debut against but Regal and Tajiri, and as a result came in with a whimper, selling the entire match and losing. Christian going three minutes with a competent jobber and putting them away with the Unprettier would be great television, and he could cut a promo afterwards after barely breaking a sweat. With a limited amount of guys on each roster, WWE is going to burn out every possible combination of matches if they don't start putting on 4-5 jobber matches a week. There's a thousand ways to make a jobber match interesting, and though internet fans will bitch and moan it's going to make pay-per-views seem a hell of a lot more important and if ratings slip a tenth of a point or so, who cares, it won't cost WWE any money and the increase in PPV interest would pay off substantially.

 

In terms of presentation, I think that WWE needs a drastic overhaul. Something that makes fans who tuned out a couple years ago flip by the show now and say "Damn. This is some new shit". Entrances are cool now, but they need to seem even more epic than they already do. It's a minor detail, but I was watching an old Great Muta match from 1989 and an old Hogan match from 1985 recently, and one thing that was really cool that they don't do anymore is have the wrestlers walk to the ring surrounded by like 8 security guys in yellow shirts clearing the way. Maybe that is outdated, but I wish they would bring the rails closer to the aisle like they used to with the security entourages coming to the ring to give it more of a boxing/legit sport feel. I'm a huge fan of Pride and the sets that they use, and I think WWE could use that and should incorporate a new color theme for Raw. I love the idea of a huge white entrance and a white ring with white ropes. Again, perception that something new is happening is very important, and I think something as simple as this could at least make a lot of old casual fans flipping by give the product a few minutes to convince them that something new has been done. Another thing I liked that they don't do anymore is dimming the entire arena but the ring during a wrestling event.

 

I would also like to see wrestling take more of a Hollywood style approach. The cinematography during major matches leaves so much to be desired and has remained virtually unchanged for 20 years. I have no idea how it could be done, but a feud playing out like a movie would be fantastic. Rocky is the perfect example of how wrestling should strive to be. If WWE could harness the emotion and underdog appeal of the film and it's hero in a fued, it would be the biggest thing in a long time. WWE actually did this remarkably well in the Brock Lesnar fued with The Rock. The promo packages leading into that fued were some of the best work WWE has ever done. In a way, they were shot like scenes out of a Rocky film. They were raw, passionate training videos explaining how hard both men were working and how hard they were pushing themselves to be at the top of their games come the night of Summerslam. The two men never laid a single finger on eachother on eachother until the night of the fight, and the result was one of the most memorable WWE title matches of the last ten years and the creation of a new megastar. WWE needs many more of these types of builds instead of two guys in the ring on microphones blabbing on and on and on about nothing.

 

There are some other things I wanted to add, but it's 5:30am so I'll finish this in the morning.