The RAW Thread for 05-02-05: Show Comments

[BorneAgain 0]

If he can hold it till July 12, he'll beat Rock's reign.

He's still got to get into January to break Honky Tonk Man's record though.

 

If there's any WWWFE record that's still reachable without changing history, it might be that one.

Yeah, unless WWE makes some major changes, I don't see anybody breaking that. Not that Shelton needs to, because being the longest running IC champion in over 15 years sounds pretty damn impressive.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Kane is not over at all.

HA! Maybe when he's got the human heat machine Lita with him, but Kane is consistantly one of the more over people on the RAW Roster. I do know though, that fans mark out whenever Kane and Batista have confrontations in Battle Royales.

Well, he does have Lita with him. And Kane right now is lower than Batista, HBK, Jericho and Benoit. Hell, with Lita there, Christian almost got cheered over him.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Christian has been getting cheered over John Cena... I think that's good enough to say he's more over right now than most people on both rosters.

[Guest Rrrsh]

He got cheered in smark heaven New York and in a foreign Country, where EVERYONE gets cheered who is known (see Angle)

 

Save those two times, he hasnt got cheered.

[Guest LooneyTune]

During Heat last night, the crowd chanted for Christian (quite loudly) during Tyson Tomko vs. Val Venis.

 

When did anywhere in New Hampshire become a smark heavy crowd or a foreign country?

[Promoter 0]

So, HBK or Benoit shouldn't win because the champion might not be cheered over them in a title match? If this is the case, they are right to put the title back on Triple H and not bother even try to push Batista as champion. If HBK and Benoit are more over than him what will happen if they put him in regular title matches that don't involve Triple H? That would have 3 guys who are better workers AND more over than the champion. Run HBK vs. Batista or Benoit/Batista and see what happens. It's leading to Batista/HHH anyways at Vengence. The same was said when Batista went up against Flair in Flair country and Flair was booed against Batista. They can't be too conservative and it won't kill Batista as champion to go over top guys like Benoit or HBK who will no doubt make him look like a super champion.

 

I still think this Christian love is short-sighted, but we'll see. So, Benji can top Rock's run as IC champion by July? Who else would like to see The Rock against Benjamin at SummerSlam?

[Guest Rrrsh]

During Heat last night, the crowd chanted for Christian (quite loudly) during Tyson Tomko vs. Val Venis.

 

When did anywhere in New Hampshire become a smark heavy crowd or a foreign country?

 

Yah, then he came out and got a decent pop. He didnt crack the Top 5 for Pops.

 

Christian is more over than Val, congrats.

[Guest Rrrsh]

So, HBK or Benoit shouldn't win because the champion might not be cheered over them in a title match? If this is the case, they are right to put the title back on Triple H and not bother even try to push Batista as champion. If HBK and Benoit are more over than him what will happen if they put him in regular title matches that don't involve Triple H? That would have 3 guys who are better workers AND more over than the champion. Run HBK vs. Batista or Benoit/Batista and see what happens. It's leading to Batista/HHH anyways at Vengence. The same was said when Batista went up against Flair in Flair country and Flair was booed against Batista. They can't be too conservative and it won't kill Batista as champion to go over top guys like Benoit or HBK who will no doubt make him look like a super champion.

 

I still think this Christian love is short-sighted, but we'll see. So, Benji can top Rock's run as IC champion by July? Who else would like to see The Rock against Benjamin at SummerSlam?

Dude, They are faces. Face vs Face matches are stupid for Face champs to begin with, let alone when the Champ is not established.

[Promoter 0]

May 2004

 

Battle in the Dessert

Location: Arizona

 

Chris Benoit defends the world heavyweight title against Shawn Michaels!!!!

 

Yeah, they will never have face vs. face title matches on free television for May Sweeps

 

Yep, they won't think about using Benoit or HBK to further Batista/HHH for the HIAC at Vengence like they used two babyfaces last year to further HBK/HHH in the HIAC at Bad Blood.

 

Fall of 2003

Goldberg defends his world heavyweight title against Shawn Michaels!!!

Yep, they will never do this face vs. face stuff because it's stupid. I mean we are in 1985.

 

Of course, no one has even thought about the possibility of HHH COSTING Batista the world title to create the HIAC match either.

 

 

I must have also been dreaming when I saw a babyface vs. babyface match between HBK and Benjamin on RAW TONIGHT!!!!!

 

JBL vs. Kurt Angle was heel vs. heel, but it didn't seem to stop them from running an angle about Kurt Angle being an American hero and JBL being a corrupt American that led to a title match on television. No. No. No.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Benoit and Goldbergs matches vs Michelas were OK because Beniot and Goldberg were the most over on the brand and were established. Even tho it was both their first reigns, their both veterns and had massive fan bases. The Batista is still green and got the belt two months after his face turn.

 

 

He needs to be protected here.

[Promoter 0]

Oh, I know what you are saying here, but look at what they've done in the past. They are NOT protecting Batista the way they should. Benoit was the champion last year, but he was not the top man on RAW. It was HHH and his feud with HBK. The same damn thing with Goldberg. He was the champion, but it was still all about HHH even when the man wasn't on the show. The wwe uses Shawn Michaels for highly publicized title matches for champions in the short term for tv matches. He was used in this way against Goldberg and Benoit. He is high profile enough to take the loss and not be tarnished. They are making Benoit to be the same thing now. Look at the booking and tell me it's not HHH they are protecting with Batista unable to kick out of the pedigree and whatnot. The star is still Triple H even though he is jobbing to JR and Benoit recently. It's Batista screwing him instead of just flat out beating him.

 

John Cena is the guy they are protecting and promoting in conferences as the next big star. Benoit most likely won't job to Kane because it would hurt HHH(not that I agree with this, but THEY think like that). Edge can possibly go over HBK and then I can see them having Edge topple Batista. Remember a few months back Batista couldn't beat Edge on RAW. However, how likely would it be for them to have Edge/Benoit again in another contender's match in the finals when they just did a whole feud based on that? They won't job Edge in that scenario because it weakens him, however he can job to HBK due to their past storyline about HBK screwing him out of title matches. The big picture. I know it sometimes doesn't seem like they have big pictures, but I think they do for main events.

[Guest Desperate Housewife]

I hope you are all eating your words after HHH Jobbed. The treatment the guy gets on this board is nothing short of vile.

 

 

"Oh they're all lining up to job to HHH"

 

 

And etc, etc.

[Guest Lawlerm]

He carried Nash to a **** match at an In Your House.  That says something.

Because having a great match with your best friend is really hard to do.

True, I mean you only have to watch the Hogan v Beefcake Starrcade main event to prove that theory...

 

[Guest LooneyTune]

But Hogan was about 6 years past his prime, and Beefcake was Beefcake. They did have some good (for their standards) matches during Beefcakes early WWF days in 1984-85.

[RedJed 0]

WWE is on a real roll lately. WrestleMania was f'n great wrestling for sure, and the Raws/Smackdowns since then have been interesting and full of decent to good matches consistently, with a sollid change lately of the old formula of WWE matches (kick/punch/closeline/highspot) out the window, thanks to guys like Steamboat and DiBiase, I assume, helping wrestlers lay out matches lately and after a few months here, the wrestlers are really getting used to this more well laid out formula and they are now in some cases clicking on most cylanders. This has helped the product tenfold to me - even if the storylines at times lag, there is still a solid in-ring product right now for sure.

 

Anyway what to say about Raw last night - the tournament idea, which sounded boring on paper, ended up delivering BIGTIME and this might be best tournament on free TV by the time all is said and done if further matches continue to deliver like this. Benjamin-HBK had one of the best matches on a Raw show in years. Also, Jericho and Edge tore it up and Benoit beats HHH with the sharpshooter?!! Consider me so shocked and surprised by that finish I thought I was legitimately hallucinating.

 

If the WWE keeps this up, the summer months are going to be good, not to mention that I am really anticipating this ECW ppv and hell, even the next Smackdown ppv. The ppv on Sunday was also very good which has already been covered. Benjamin has had two of his best matches ever the last two shows, as his match with Jericho on the ppv was **** material and the match with HBK was even better. Give him another year or so and this guy is going to be huge if the WWE allow him to run with the ball.

 

How is this possible - I'm enjoying the heck out of the WWE product consistently lately??!!! Every week when I think Raw is going to be the shits, it isnt.

[Promoter 0]

I agree fully that the wrestling seems better. The shows seem a bit tighter as well as the time flies. They might have found a nice mix by having hollywood writers along with guys like Steamboat and Dibiase helping with the matches. I don't know about anyone else, but HHH has been much more entertaining this year than usual and even when he won the elimination chamber match in January it was good booking. It might also help that the guy doesn't have crappy wrestlers like Nash and Moon Man Scott running around where he has to ty to pull solid matches out of them. Another thing is Gerwitz isn't the head writer for raw right now either. Smackdown is also a lot better than it was last year at this time.

[RedJed 0]

The only real issue I had with Raw last night was Christian jobbing out pretty quickly to Kane. With the way Christian has been getting over on the mic, he needs big wins to build up a move over to Smackdown - not being portrayed as "second rate" to the top Raw guys going into that, is key. Christian at the very least should been penciled to get to the finals if you ask me, if not have been winning this whole tournament.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Benjamin vs Michaels was so good that I had to stay up for the replay and keep it on pernament tape which is something I hardly do in the WWE anymore (except Benoit matches of course). I loved the rollup sequence as it had so much merit here as that was how Benjamin beat Jericho the night before.

 

Nice stuff. Michaels mostly staying in control until the end where Benjamin starts to pour it on until he gets caught by the veteran in one of the best looking finishers ever. From anywhere. Michaels was real good at the end too looking down at Benjamin just putting over what they went through.

 

The nip up spot ruled. Benjamin's all "Yeah, I can do that too."

 

 

 

 

Benoit vs HHH was also strong with Benoit putting on a really great performance legit scaring me with his concussion selling. The match was too short, got hurt by a commercial break and the ending was ruint by interference but besides that the work was really strong.

 

I'm really looking forward to Benoit vs Kane next week since their last match on Raw was so great. That's going to be tough to beat but we'll see what happens.

[Promoter 0]

This is just pure speculation, but could Christian jobbing out like that be the RAW creative making sure their side looks superior when Christian jumps to smackdown? (if he is)

 

I think the rumour was that only two guys will know who is moving, but I think it's obvious the staff must know Christian is moving. This might sound like propaganda because it's all the same company, but didn't they send Heyman home for listening on a RAW meeting? It could be they are doing this to Christian, so when he jumps to smackdown and feuds with Cena it makes Cena look inferior as champ when Christian couldn't even get a title shot in the tourney.

[RedJed 0]

This is just pure speculation, but could Christian jobbing out like that be the RAW creative making sure their side looks superior when Christian jumps to smackdown? (if he is)

 

I think the rumour was that only two guys will know who is moving, but I think it's obvious the staff must know Christian is moving. This might sound like propaganda because it's all the same company, but didn't they send Heyman home for listening on a RAW meeting? It could be they are doing this to Christian, so when he jumps to smackdown and feuds with Cena it makes Cena look inferior as champ when Christian couldn't even get a title shot in the tourney.

Thats kind of what I am thinking - the WWE title has been portrayed as second rate for awhile now and I think they will continue to do this post-draft as well with Christian "jobbing out' on the way to SD. I think they are thinking of it like if a guy is about to turn, sometimes they do some serious jobs on the way out, but this is a little different - you can't groom a contender for a top tier belt by having him lose when you are, at the same time, building him. The the portrayal of the WWE title v. gold belt is just how it is - even the announcers flat out always seem to say the gold belt is way more prestigious than the WWE title (well at least Jim Ross clearly makes a point of saying that). Hell, go back to Royal Rumble - Batista eliminating Cena says it right there, as well as the placement of the gold belt title matches v. WWE title on the big WWE ppvs the past few years.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I hope you are all eating your words after HHH Jobbed. The treatment the guy gets on this board is nothing short of vile.

 

"Oh they're all lining up to job to HHH"

 

And etc, etc.

Yes, because one job means Raw is no longer being built around Triple H.

 

How about you actually wait for the follow up, and see where this is heading. It makes for a nice surprise that he tapped out to Benoit, but unless it means Triple H stepping aside and not being in the most pushed issue on Raw, nothing has really changed.

[Taker666 0]

This is just pure speculation, but could Christian jobbing out like that be the RAW creative making sure their side looks superior when Christian jumps to smackdown? (if he is)

 

I think the rumour was that only two guys will know who is moving, but I think it's obvious the staff must know Christian is moving. This might sound like propaganda because it's all the same company, but didn't they send Heyman home for listening on a RAW meeting? It could be they are doing this to Christian, so when he jumps to smackdown and feuds with Cena it makes Cena look inferior as champ when Christian couldn't even get a title shot in the tourney.

Thats kind of what I am thinking - the WWE title has been portrayed as second rate for awhile now and I think they will continue to do this post-draft as well with Christian "jobbing out' on the way to SD. I think they are thinking of it like if a guy is about to turn, sometimes they do some serious jobs on the way out, but this is a little different - you can't groom a contender for a top tier belt by having him lose when you are, at the same time, building him. The the portrayal of the WWE title v. gold belt is just how it is - even the announcers flat out always seem to say the gold belt is way more prestigious than the WWE title (well at least Jim Ross clearly makes a point of saying that). Hell, go back to Royal Rumble - Batista eliminating Cena says it right there, as well as the placement of the gold belt title matches v. WWE title on the big WWE ppvs the past few years.

I heard plenty times Tazz and Cole put over the WWE title as the most prestiges prize in the bissniess. right now, I think both the WWE title and World title are treated equally. all the top Superstars of SmackDown were all trying to go after the gold and for the past couple of weeks, Cena has been pushed harder as World Champion than Batista has been. more airtime, louder pops, more matches, his new CD. Raw has the whole tournment thing going to. but it still feels like its still all about Triple H.

[Carnival 0]

I hope you are all eating your words after HHH Jobbed. The treatment the guy gets on this board is nothing short of vile.

 

 

"Oh they're all lining up to job to HHH"

 

 

And etc, etc.

If somehow Triple H is not in the main event of the next RAW PPV...then i will eat EVERYONE'S words for them.

[HurriShane 0]

Did the ending of the HHH vs Benoit match remind anybody else of a match between Rock vs Benoit from summer of 02? With HHH as the Rock and Batista as the Brock

[Lord of The Curry 0]

No.

 

Batista is not Brock, HHH is not Rock.

 

BTW, all the people in this thread acting like HHH's job meant something can eat a bowl of dicks.

[HurriShane 0]

No.

 

Batista is not Brock, HHH is not Rock.

 

BTW, all the people in this thread acting like HHH's job meant something can eat a bowl of dicks.

I mean like it had the same ending with Rock/HHH in the crossface and Brock/Batista standing right there making sure that he taps.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Without looking back through the thread, I'll say that Im pretty sure we'll get Kane vs Edge in the finals just so they can have Edge and Lita on the screen at the same time.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Without looking back through the thread, I'll say that Im pretty sure we'll get Kane vs Edge in the finals just so they can have Edge and Lita on the screen at the same time.

They had them on screen together during a backstage segment. Edge confronted Lita and Victoria, and Vic mouthed off at him.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Nah. That'll be a semi, maybe have Lita turn on Kane then and side with Edge.

 

Finals are gonna be Benoit vs HBK or Benoit vs Edge.

[Guest Gary Busey]

One thing I noticed about Benoit winning was after the bell rung, he was never seen on camera again. They cut back and forth from HHH and Batista until they faded to black, with Chris (and his hard fought victory) fading into the background as the focus was on "Batista screwed HHH!" instead of "Benoit persevered!"

 

It makes sense, because they are continuing the feud, but still.