ECW: Is it the future brand of pro wrestling?

[iliketurtles 0]

We all know about the show on June 12th and whether or not the WWE can relive the special feel of ECW. Vince's promo on RAW clearly foreshadowed and hinted to that ECW is possibly being resurrected after One Night Stand. We clearly know that WCW lone, gone, and buried after 2001. But ECW has seemed to always stay popular, and Vince has known that for the longest time and is just recently making money off of it with the DVD, and now PPV and going all out with it. And he knows more than anyone that one main reason that wrestling is the way it is today is because there is no compeition, and the Raw vs. Smackdown thing isn't just belivable. So I lurk the question.

 

Will Vince go all out and start the ECW brand up, possibly before the end of the year? And especially after the situation with UPN, could it be possible he'll just can Smackdown all together? I mean, the Rock IS gone. Move all ECW guys on the ECW Friday Night show, and move all WWE guys to Raw or some thing.

 

I think if you look at it like this. If the ECW gets a buyrate on rate with other WWE PPVs, and considering the sales of all the merch. and the fact pro wrestling needs major compeition, Vince would be STUPID not to pull the trigger on this right now. Everyone was happy that Vince bought WCW cause they knew he'd do something with it when in fact he didn't. He bought ECW and didn't do much with it either, but it's still popular and he knows he can't bury it. What originally killed ECW was Heyman's mismanagement and lack of funds, as well as having no TV. With Vince being a marketing powerhouse, as well as having plently of money to do it up right, who knows. The thing that would kill ECW coming back is if it's not like the original style. Heyman would still have to run it. You'd still have to have ECW rules and all kinds of crazy ring styles.

 

Discuss away.

[zyn081 0]

I will give a better explaination some another time cause im in a rush to go out.

 

I dont think that the concept of ECW will be as valid today as it was then. Validity has nothing to do with popularity.

[Nightfall 0]

Even if Vince were to try to recreate a new ECW brand, I don't think many fans would accept it, as it would be just like the 'new' WCW. Everyone knew it was really just the WWE, and it seemed like WCW was just another stable within the WWE. Also, as everyone knows, if they moved an ECW branded show to Friday nights, it would die fast. Weekend nights do NOT work for wrestling, except for the rare special here and there. But not a weekly show.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

Heyman would actually have to be in charge for it to be taken seriously, and I can't see Vince giving him that much power.

[iliketurtles 0]

Also, as everyone knows, if they moved an ECW branded show to Friday nights, it would die fast. Weekend nights do NOT work for wrestling, except for the rare special here and there. But not a weekly show.

Well, Smackdown is on Friday Nights.

 

So yeah.

[iliketurtles 0]

When you see guys on Raw and Smackdown show up on each other shows, it was cool at first. You could even tell during the Rumble this year that the fans were into the competition. But ast you guys said, everyone knows Smackdown and Raw are both one in the same basically. They need to make two different organizations, not brands.

 

That's what's going to kill it if they do it. They aren't like the original, and they make it like it's one big company. Don't have the bullshit 'Raw Rewind' and 'Smackdown Rebound' or whatever stupid shit they do.

 

Have one WWE Champion. One WWE Tag Team Champion. Stuff like that, because people don't even know who are the champions anymore (Does Mick Foley on Raw in 2001 in Boston ring a bell?)

 

Having one WWE show on Monday Nights would FORCE the writing team to have better shows, to use talent more wisely and more effectively. No one would be able to control the show as much.

 

It would give a TON of guys an opportunity to go to ECW and do stuff there. All the cruiserweights, have the hardcore wrestling, maybe even some of the big names that would want to go do ECW. Look at Benoit, he'd probably be perfect if they did this because he's done everything he wanted to and when it comes right too it, he just wants to wrestle and go balls out. More opportunity for the guys that need the atmosphere of an ECW to make their way up. More opportunity for guys from OVW to not just be shoved and lost into the mix of the WWE when they could go somewhere like ECW, show off their skills, make a name, and see what happens from there.

 

They have the roster to do it. They have the staff to do it. They have the money to do it. They have the popularity to do it. They have the marketing and production to do it. The only problem would be is this WWE/ECW would be they would need to get more TV. I know they've got some 1 hour show on USA but whatever. That's a recap show anyways. When wrestling was going, they had the Monday Night Wars (which I really doubt will happen anytime soon), and there was at least 10 hours of wrestling on prime time/late night TV weekly. Though the business is down, they could definately afford more than the 5 hours of TV they'll only have come this fall.

 

And especially since Smackdown is now completely worthless now.

[Guest Brian]

I suspect this is an attempt to test the waters, based off the success of the DVD.

[Kizzo 0]

I can see this happening......Smackdown is a dead brand...and UPN is putting the FINAL nail in the coffin(airing on Fridays this fall).....after the contract with UPN ends next year.....where are they going to put Smackdown.......the NBC Universal deal only covers 4 hours of programming....RAW(2 hours), and 2 recap shows(1 hour each)......

 

If they do decide to renew with Smackdown(in which it would be on Fridays)....I can see Vince replacing Smackdown with "ECW".......or they could drop one recap show and have ECW use one of those time slots...

 

They have options.....lets see what they come up with..

[Angle-plex 0]

No - It had a chance to be if they played their cards right, but it was all ruined Monday on RAW after Vince publicly announced that he is the real owner of ECW, followed by the Benoit/Tajiri WWE Hardcore Match that was supposed to be a preview of what we will see at One Night Stand. Wow that was stupid.

[tominator89 0]

I could see One Night Stand being a resurrection of the ECW brand name. If RVD leaves with the World Title then I'd be more willing to believe that it is happening.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

I'm ashamed at the lack of people at the very least taping Velocity and Heat, let alone watching it. I figure ECW late night on Saturday or Friday night where it wouldn't be that censored would do a decent 1.5-2.5 rating. No more, and probably a lot less as time goes on. It would have to go on late at night, period.

 

FX is currently the only network I know of that takes a few risks with their programming department. Comedy Central ofcourse has their uncensored saturday nights/sunday morning at 1am, but I don't think they'd run ECW. Anyway, FX is about the only station that would run ECW how it has to be booked. Rebellion, anti-establishment, a big fuck you to everyone and everything. This isn't the only thing ECW is known for, but the lack of the edgy storylines would not make it ECW.

 

You could make the argument that edgy storylines in the year 2005/6 wouldn't be similar to the edgy storylines of the 90's. I agree to a point. However this is very much a devil in the details thing, and I would think you'd still need certain spots that WWE/advertisers don't want to show during primetime.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Everyone was happy that Vince bought WCW cause they knew he'd do something with it when in fact he didn't.

 

What fucking world were/are you living in??

 

Why would Vince do what he's not doing in the WWE (dangerous moves, no rules, etc) with ECW? There's reasons, you know, for them not doing that in the WWE. Injuries and raising the bar on fan expectations being the big two. If Vince wanted to improve his product in-ring by not limiting his wrestlers, he would have done it already.

[Dark Age 0]

So, basically, what this topic boils down to, is that you went to end the brand split? Then my answer is a firm no.

[reign 0]

The ECW(in a no SD! world) and WWE Raw rosters would need to be large and yes we would need more tv time for the two brands and with the right matches and some damn promoting on the big Monday and Friday(?) shows the weekend shows might do better. My only fear is that we would miss out on seeing more talent...especially the current SD! midacrd with Haas,the CWs,etc.....my personal delight would be an angle so that we at least get some mileage out of an ECW/WWE feud with Vince watching from the sidelines for a while as Heyman plays EB and Vince's game of "raiding" talent..I'd like to see Rey and the entire CW roster under Heyman..if they kept ECW seperate from Raw Vince could take over SD! and they could all three duke it out again in a worked wrestling war...

[Guest Brian]

Everyone was happy that Vince bought WCW cause they knew he'd do something with it when in fact he didn't.

 

What fucking world were/are you living in??

 

Why would Vince do what he's not doing in the WWE (dangerous moves, no rules, etc) with ECW? There's reasons, you know, for them not doing that in the WWE. Injuries and raising the bar on fan expectations being the big two. If Vince wanted to improve his product in-ring by not limiting his wrestlers, he would have done it already.

Shit, he won't even let the cruiserweights wrestle.

[Guest Deadbolt]

Ugh. I think everyone here is taking all of this too far. All of this "ressurection" talk is simply to get people hyped for the ECW PPV and after its all set and done no one will ever mention anything about ECW brand on RAW or SD!. It'll just be forgotten. There's no way ECW can be coming back.

[Slickster 0]

With the sustained enthusiasm fans have had for ECW since 2001, I think Vince sees that ECW is unlike WCW, AWA, SMW, etc. in that people still hold it in a very high regard long after its demise.

 

How many fans have EVER chanted 'W-C-W!' or wear WCW shirts to events? How many fans fantasize about WCW's return?

 

I think that it's obvious that the fans want ECW back. I mean, their DVD is in the top 2 of all-time WWE DVD releases. The episode of 'Byte This' that focused on ECW was the most-watched in the 6-year history of the show. The ECW reunion on the 7/9/01 RAW is still talked about as one of the best segments in the last five years.

 

I think that if this show does well (which it is already on track to do), then I would not be surprised to see the ECW brand resurrected and given that Sunday night slot on USA. 'WWE Tonight,' my ass.

[cabbageboy 0]

I voted yes on this simply for wishful thinking. Frankly it is opening up Pandora's Box to just have an ECW PPV and then proceed to do nothing of note afterwards. What I envision is Heyman bringing in a faction of ECW guys to torment Bischoff on Raw and what could erupt is a full scale war for Raw supremacy. I don't really see how SMDN fits in here, since storywise the Long administration has nothing against ECW. Thus why would they try and take over the show?

 

Whether they planned it or not this ECW PPV is going to change the entire direction of at least Raw. They have already gone too far with this thing to stop now without angering a large amount of fans. Make no mistake, Bischoff bringing his guys to get killed on the ECW show will have repercussions on Raw. Will Bischoff be pissed and try to punish the ECW participants there on Raw? This is the opening volley of a major feud I think.

 

I'm not sure ECW will ever be its own show again per se, but it has to still exist in some nebulous form as a loosely affiliated group of wrestlers who answer to Paul E. Thus, Heyman could have his hands on both Raw and SMDN as a sort of agent for a shitload of wrestlers.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

With the sustained enthusiasm fans have had for ECW since 2001, I think Vince sees that ECW is unlike WCW, AWA, SMW, etc. in that people still hold it in a very high regard long after its demise.

 

How many fans have EVER chanted 'W-C-W!' or wear WCW shirts to events? How many fans fantasize about WCW's return?

 

I think that it's obvious that the fans want ECW back. I mean, their DVD is in the top 2 of all-time WWE DVD releases. The episode of 'Byte This' that focused on ECW was the most-watched in the 6-year history of the show. The ECW reunion on the 7/9/01 RAW is still talked about as one of the best segments in the last five years.

 

I think that if this show does well (which it is already on track to do), then I would not be surprised to see the ECW brand resurrected and given that Sunday night slot on USA. 'WWE Tonight,' my ass.

Those people want the ECW of the 90's back. ECW under Vince would be stocked w/ WWE guys, and would most likely feature WWE "hardcore" matches. That's not what the people who chant "E-C-W", the people buying the DVD's, the people ordering the PPV want, and when they don't get it, they'll stop watching it.

 

The only way to get it to work would be to totally divest WWE from it (save for financing), and let someone like Heyman be totally in control. Vince will never do that, not to mention that USA Network would never even allow a "real" ECW from going 100% hardcore.

 

They'll be better off milking the nostalgia and selling DVD's than they would be by bringing back ECW.

[Guest Ransome]

Those people want the ECW of the 90's back. ECW under Vince would be stocked w/ WWE guys, and would most likely feature WWE "hardcore" matches. That's not what the people who chant "E-C-W", the people buying the DVD's, the people ordering the PPV want, and when they don't get it, they'll stop watching it.

 

The only way to get it to work would be to totally divest WWE from it (save for financing), and let someone like Heyman be totally in control. Vince will never do that, not to mention that USA Network would never even allow a "real" ECW from going 100% hardcore.

 

They'll be better off milking the nostalgia and selling DVD's than they would be by bringing back ECW.

I agree. ECW (or at least, Vince McMahon Presents ECW) is only going to work in the short term. But still, part of me wants to see ECW return full-time, just because its such a 'Cinderella story'; ECW deserved a better farewell than they got when they fizzled out in 2001. As Slickster said, ECW has that 'mystique' that WCW, for example, never had. Nonetheless, I doubt that WWE are truly going to harness (or even realise) the potential they have on their hands right now.

 

It will all depend on what goes down on June 12th.

[dubq 0]

Jesus Christ the liberal use of the word "brand" [when it comes to wrestling] makes me sick.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well using "promotion" or "federation" isn't exactly accurate since this ECW would be owned by Vince really.

 

The reason ECW has nostalgic fans is that I think ECW still had something to say as a promotion. I mean did WCW REALLY have anything left to say or offer by 2001? There was no feud or payoff or much of anything that WCW had that could have meant much, whereas ECW pointed towards some things in the last PPV that I was really looking forward to seeing (RVD at long last getting the world title vs. Rhino, the New Impact Players, etc). The promotion flamed out quickly after being dicked by TNN, whereas WCW slowly petered out to the point where no one cared.

[The Decemberists 0]

People may chant ECW both in the past and now and no one ever chanted WCW.

 

But more people watched WCW, and more people spent money on WCW. That is what's important, not a bunch of hardcore's chanting initials.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that even if Vince did bring back ECW, and somehow there was an ECW TV show again (be it on USA or another network), the whole thing would be potentially so badly booked and "WWE-ized" that people wouldn't watch it, and eventually Vince would have to pull the plug. Then he could finally say that he really did beat every other promotion, and it would just be WWE forever I mean, does anyone really believe that they actually learned from their mistakes with the Invasion angle?

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I mean did WCW REALLY have anything left to say or offer by 2001?

A legit cruiser division, some new guys on top (i.e. Booker T), some new guys in line for pushes (i.e. O'Haire, Helms), variety in how guys were allowed to perform.

[Slickster 0]

With the sustained enthusiasm fans have had for ECW since 2001, I think Vince sees that ECW is unlike WCW, AWA, SMW, etc. in that people still hold it in a very high regard long after its demise.

 

How many fans have EVER chanted 'W-C-W!' or wear WCW shirts to events? How many fans fantasize about WCW's return?

 

I think that it's obvious that the fans want ECW back. I mean, their DVD is in the top 2 of all-time WWE DVD releases. The episode of 'Byte This' that focused on ECW was the most-watched in the 6-year history of the show. The ECW reunion on the 7/9/01 RAW is still talked about as one of the best segments in the last five years.

 

I think that if this show does well (which it is already on track to do), then I would not be surprised to see the ECW brand resurrected and given that Sunday night slot on USA. 'WWE Tonight,' my ass.

 

Those people want the ECW of the 90's back. ECW under Vince would be stocked w/ WWE guys, and would most likely feature WWE "hardcore" matches.

 

You should at least do some calisthenics before jumping to conclusions like that: you might hurt yourself. Why would WWE deliberately sabotage a moneymaking brand like ECW? If they were going to sabotage ECW, they wouldn't have given it its own PPV and brought back fan favorites to work on it, much less had Dreamer and Heyman book the entire show. They would have killed it like the WCW Invasion by putting it on free TV and had JR and Vince give ECW zero credibility. The 'ECW rules' match was crappy, like the last 'ECW rules' match between Raven/Angle. Both times they were booked by the regular WWE writers and intended to be a Cliffs Notes of how 'extreme' ECW can be. This makes the marks/casual fans who never saw ECW want to watch the show, while the more hardcore ECW fans who know better can wait for the PPV to see some classic feuds revitalized.

 

 

The only way to get it to work would be...let someone like Heyman be totally in control. Vince will never do that,

 

Except that he is doing just that for this PPV. I don't expect a new ECW to run crucifixion angles and have Kimona streaptease on cable television, but I am confident that restoring ECW as a company under WWE control would be a can't-miss financial opportunity for the WWE.

[cabbageboy 0]

Oddly enough it might be easier to get ECW some TV time now than it was for Vince to secure WCW a timeslot back in 2001. The problem then was that WCW was such a huge turd financially. They were hemmoraging money, the ratings were crap compared to the peak, and they also didn't really have anybody still under contract (a problem which killed the Invasion).

 

ECW presents far less problems. It'd be a cheap looking show by definition, it's just the ECW style. I'm sure they could draw 3000 or so fans to shows (in fact I'd bet ECW house shows would outdraw a standard Raw or SMDN house show). Also, Vince could show TV execs the DVD numbers on how well the ECW DVD sold.

 

As far as what WCW had to offer, yes I agree that the cruiser stuff was good near the end, but a promotion simply can't be defined by how good its cruisers are. People lay down money to see the heavyweight division, it's just a sad truth. Also, by early 2001 Booker's main event push was waning...he'd already been conclusively jobbed out to Scott Steiner and the idea was to build a big Steiner/Goldberg match. Thing is, Goldberg lost that goofy career match and thus that scenario was killed dead. What I meant about WCW not having anything to offer is that even if they did the big Steiner/GB match it still had no ability to draw flies. There was no match on the horizon for WCW, no interest from the fanbase. WCW had run its course as a promotion, they'd fucked over the fans too many times and killed off the interest of all but the diehards.

 

ECW always felt like it was shut down at an inopportune moment. As in not quite getting the TV deal they needed, not quite getting to do the RVD/Rhino world title feud which would have led to RVD winning the title at long last. I'm telling you, an ECW on USA with a popular champ like RVD would have been a viable alternative.

 

I remember that time very well. The last ECW PPV left a sort of To Be Continued vibe, as it faded out with an RVD/Rhino confrontation. ECW left you wanting more. WCW's last PPV I seem to remember being pretty good wrestling wise, but there was utterly no direction and most of the guys were trying hard to impress Vince and little else. When it was over I didn't feel saddened or anything....WCW had earned their fate.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

.  Comedy Central ofcourse has their uncensored saturday nights/sunday morning at 1am, but I don't think they'd run ECW. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

EXTREME COMEDY WRESTLING!

 

Yo momma's so fat *slap* *kick* *punch*

 

Yeah! Well yo momma's so ugly *chairshot*

 

Where the Punchline REALLY HURTS!

[Guest Brian]

Oddly enough it might be easier to get ECW some TV time now than it was for Vince to secure WCW a timeslot back in 2001.  The problem then was that WCW was such a huge turd financially.

 

And ECW wasn't? How many times did Vince keep it from going belly-up? How did it end? Don't remember stories of people not getting paid?

 

ECW presents far less problems.  It'd be a cheap looking show by definition, it's just the ECW style.  I'm sure they could draw 3000 or so fans to shows (in fact I'd bet ECW house shows would outdraw a standard Raw or SMDN house show).

 

Consistently, at those prices, and on tour? You're dreaming.

 

Also, Vince could show TV execs the DVD numbers on how well the ECW DVD sold.

 

He could also show them the ratings they got.

 

ECW always felt like it was shut down at an inopportune moment.  As in not quite getting the TV deal they needed, not quite getting to do the RVD/Rhino world title feud which would have led to RVD winning the title at long last.  I'm telling you, an ECW on USA with a popular champ like RVD would have been a viable alternative. 

 

Based on what?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You should at least do some calisthenics before jumping to conclusions like that: you might hurt yourself. Why would WWE deliberately sabotage a moneymaking brand like ECW? If they were going to sabotage ECW, they wouldn't have given it its own PPV and brought back fan favorites to work on it, much less had Dreamer and Heyman book the entire show. They would have killed it like the WCW Invasion by putting it on free TV and had JR and Vince give ECW zero credibility. The 'ECW rules' match was crappy, like the last 'ECW rules' match between Raven/Angle. Both times they were booked by the regular WWE writers and intended to be a Cliffs Notes of how 'extreme' ECW can be. This makes the marks/casual fans who never saw ECW want to watch the show, while the more hardcore ECW fans who know better can wait for the PPV to see some classic feuds revitalized.

 

You should at least do some calisthenics before jumping to conclusions like that: you might hurt yourself.

 

Ok, that was a good one.

 

Why would WWE deliberately sabotage a moneymaking brand like ECW?

 

Because if the PPV does too well, then a lot of ego's are going to get flattened, and a lot of questions are going to get asked. It's vital for the insecurities of a lot of people in WWE that ONS doesn't do that well, if it does well at all.

 

If they were going to sabotage ECW, they wouldn't have given it its own PPV and brought back fan favorites to work on it, much less had Dreamer and Heyman book the entire show.

 

First, neither Dreamer nor Heyman are booking the entire show. It's a WWE run show written primarily by WWE people with primiarily WWE talent. Some ECW guys are working the PPV, and while the matches involved could be good to great, the chances aren't high that WWE are going to let non-WWE guys steal the show on what is, in reality, a WWE PPV.

 

They would have killed it like the WCW Invasion by putting it on free TV and had JR and Vince give ECW zero credibility.

 

If making it clear to everyone that the extreme rebels are owned by the very person who they were portrayed as fighting against hasn't killed the angle, it's put it on life support. They didn't even allow for the illusion of this being a rebel production with rebel talent. It's already been made quite clear that this thing is only happening because Vince is being gracious enough to allow it. This venture already has major credibility issues to it.

 

The 'ECW rules' match was crappy, like the last 'ECW rules' match between Raven/Angle. Both times they were booked by the regular WWE writers and intended to be a Cliffs Notes of how 'extreme' ECW can be. This makes the marks/casual fans who never saw ECW want to watch the show, while the more hardcore ECW fans who know better can wait for the PPV to see some classic feuds revitalized.

 

If the matches were, even by your own admission, crappy, why would anyone want to see a PPV whose very flavor was hinted at with those crappy matches ?

 

And why would any mark or casual fan want to see a PPV that's been promoted with WWE Hardcore-Lite action, when they've seen the same level of 'hardcore' on WWE TV for the last six years ? Maybe if the matches had some ECW level of hardcore action, it might attract a few people, but it hasn't, so it won't, because it's nothing that they haven't seen already.

 

As for the hardcore ECW fans, they, like most people, have already realised that this PPV won't be anything like the ECW they remember, because it's not ECW. It's a WWE PPV with WWE talent writen by WWE writers. that just happens to have a few ECW names added to it.