WWE Vengeance Card

[cabbageboy 0]

How exactly is either Christian or Jericho on any sort of roll? I don't mean gimmick wise or in terms of heat, but in actual winning matches terms. Christian hasn't won a match in forever, Jericho has been jobbing his ass off in the IC division....so now both get a shot at the WWE title?

[krease 0]

On the note of what's going to happen with the titles wrt the draft, here's a little speculation:

 

PPV: Jericho wins the World Title from Cena

RAW: Big Show gets drafted to RAW

Smackdown: Jericho gets drafted to Smackdown

 

It does look a little like they're turning Smackdown into an ECW-2 roster, and this is a way to keep that going and not invent a new Smackdown title.

[Guest Mosaicv2]

Oh come on, everybody on this board would really like to see Victoria whip Hemme's no-talented ass. Admit it.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Oh come on, everybody on this board would really like to see Victoria whip Hemme's no-talented ass.  Admit it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would, I just don't think it is going to happen.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

- Triple H/Batista: Will be as good (not saying much) as their other bouts. Ends the feud, it seems. Who knows, Trips drug average performances out of NASH in a HIAC, so if they're feeling it, this should be average to good. Hot crowd as long as Trips doesn't make it a 30-minute "epic"...groan.

 

- Cena/Christian/Jericho: You people have been on the internet for the past half-year screaming "Christian needs to be a main eventer, World Title shot, etc.!" And for the past 2 and 1/2 years: "Push Jericho back to World Title status. His credibility is shot tho!" Now you've got them both in a World Title match...so enoy it. I think this will work well, let Christian (somewhat) and Jericho bring the attempted three-way workrate, and Cena add the heat. Should be good to very good.

 

- Edge/Kane. This will suck. It always does.

 

- HBK/Angle. First one was way overrated, and IMO, was about ***. This isn't about ARGUING STAR RATINGS THOUGH, so don't reply "Idiot! It was ****3/4 classic!" Anyway, this will probably be as long or a bit longer than the WM match. Which means maybe they can improve on some of the poorer things they did in that match (Shawn's ridiculously fake looking "back-into-ringpost" spot, too much on the ground and slow, the "desperation" superkick bullshit) and improve on what worked (Shawn tapping, bump into the table, both guys hitting trademark spots well, the mat sequences of actual wrestling, not just pathetic chinlocks for 34.95). Should be very good to great.

 

- Christy/Victoria - 6 minute segment. Probably will have a lot of energy. Means little for continuity, importance, etc. BTW, what does Victoria use as these music now? Bring TaTu back?

 

- Carlito/Shelton - Carlito has thus far been gold on the mic and poor-to-carryable in the ring. Still, 99 out of 100 fans would have taken Carlito/Shelton over Hassan/Shelton at Vengeance. This'll get 12-15 minutes, with Shelton over by DQ most likely. Won't be great. Should be slightly better than Raw.

 

So we've got:

 

30 minutes of "decent".

30 minutes of "very good-great".

15 minutes of "good".

12-15 minutes of "decent".

12 minutes of "suck".

6 minutes of "wasn't bad...just...pointless".

 

Okay, maybe you're not all assholes.

 

34.95 does not = 127-29 minutes of "decent-very good".

 

Basically,

 

Would you pay $35 for a commercial-less Raw that was "the Best Raw in Years" and had one title change, possibly a World Title?

 

If so, order Vengeance. I wouldn't.

[Karc 0]

- Cena/Christian/Jericho:  You people have been on the internet for the past half-year screaming "Christian needs to be a main eventer, World Title shot, etc.!"  And for the past 2 and 1/2 years:  "Push Jericho back to World Title status.  His credibility is shot tho!"  Now you've got them both in a World Title match...so enoy it.  I think this will work well, let Christian (somewhat) and Jericho bring the attempted three-way workrate, and Cena add the heat.  Should be good to very good.

 

Problem is, they aren't in the main event. They are in the midcard. I actually fear they might be curtain-jerking. Not one segment since Cena has been on Raw has been in the main event. Or past 10:15. Jericho and Christian have been nowhere near the top of any show for months. Given the build, the WWE title is nothing more than the IC title. Cena came off a bloodbath with JBL in the main event, and now all of a sudden, he's second-rate with jobbers? How many matches has Christian won in the last year? When was the last time Jericho was a credible main eventer? It's the number three match on the show (behind HBK/Angle and HHH/Batista, which both have taken up the main event time). We've seen Batista vs. HHH on the top of a PPV card for two months in a row, and on every Raw. And the buzz has been dead. Not buying the fued for a second.

 

Seriously, if they wanted to outshine the ECW shows (which is the entire reason this thing is happening the way it is), they needed fresh feuds, with good promos, where the matches didn't really matter but were decent and the buildup meant everything. That's a basic rule of pro wrestling. Good matches with no heat don't sell nearly as well as good buildups to a decent blow-off. There's a reason many people here are less than enthused about what looked like a good card.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Bleh. If this was a joint brand PPV, I'd be there front row, but since its brand-only, I'm not really interested at all, the card could have been so much better, but as usual, WWE loves to rushjob. I'll probably just wind up getting nosebleeders.

 

Edit: The WWE Championship match should have stayed Cena / Christian, IMO.

[zyn081 0]

Bleh.  If this was a joint brand PPV, I'd be there front row, but since its brand-only, I'm not really interested at all, the card could have been so much better, but as usual, WWE loves to rushjob.  I'll probably just wind up getting nosebleeders.

 

Edit: The WWE Championship match should have stayed Cena / Christian, IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I concur.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Vengence would be an interesting place to turn Benjamin heel if they're sending him to Smackdown. Just gave him snap on Carlito and reveal his gangsta side. They've done a good enough job of showcasing his rough youth via his vignettes so it wouldn't be impossible for Benjamin to turn and cut a promo talking about how he thought he'd buried the street side of him but Carlito winning like a bitch made him smarten up and realize that he's gotta start doing things differently.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Since we're talking about people being sent to wherever, how long does the draft go on for? I thought it was a month, but I haven't really been able to pay attention much because my personal life has been real busy as of late.

[TheFranchise 0]

Next week only. Each brand has two picks each for the last show.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Ah, thanks for that.

 

Anyway, the card seems entertaining enough to me. I don't think Cena's reign is really doing as well as everyone thought it would be, but I can't imagine him doing the job. A screwover switch seems possible to me, although obviously others disagree.

Angle/Shawn, regardless of predictability, should be a good match.

The HIAC interests me in seeing who takes the big bump.

 

The show doesn't seem THAT thrilling to me, but it's a PPV with an Angle match and I just happened to move into town this week, so I'm going anyway.

[Dangerous A 0]

I might as well throw in my $.02, eh? (like any of you care)

 

 

WWE Title Match

Hell in a Cell

Triple H Vs Batista

 

Match wise, this will probrably not be good. Batista really needs to win this, especially if he is moving to SD as is the rumor.

 

World Title Match

Triple Threat

Christian Vs John Cena Vs Chris Jericho

 

Cena needs to step out of the way and let Christian and Jericho take him by the hand and hopefully pull a ***+ match out of him. In ring, it's possible, but Cena needs to let it happen. No way he loses the title unless WWE wants to cut his legs off as the only person with star quality in the last year, which wouldn't be a surprise from this creative bunch of geniuses.

 

Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle

 

This should technically be good, but there is not buildup whatsoever, so I expect it to not be anywhere near as good as their WM match. If HBK wins here, I would really like it if they have a third match at Summerslam, perhaps 2 out of 3 falls, to finish the feud.

 

 

Kane Vs Edge

 

Match will be bad. Could be memorable if Matt Hardy was to show up. Since that isn't happening, this whole thing will suck. The problem with this match is, what are the concequences? If Edge win, then what? If Kane wins, then what? The outcome is insignificant, so the heat for this will be minimal.

 

IC Title

Shelton Benjamin Vs Carlito Caribbean Cool

 

Speaking of not building matchups for ppv, here is a prime example. I like LOTC idea of Shelton losing again, going gangsta on CCC, and then jumping to SD, hopefully to feud with Benoit. Since this is WWE Creative we are dealing with, they'll probrably have Shelton lose, keep him on Raw. Not have anything for him to do for the next 2 months, then when he shows up finally and gets a minimal pop, Creative will scratch their heads as to why isn't Shelton getting over. As for Carlito, his strength is the mic, not in ring. So they'll probrably cancel the Cabana, have him wrestle long, business exposing matches, and then wonder why he isn't getting over. [rant over]

 

Victoria Vs Christy Hemme

 

Since WWE doesn't care about how the women are presented, why should I? I don't, especially these 2. Since I'm not watching the show anyways, I'll go ahead call my shot that at least 70% of you are taking a piss or food break during this drivel.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I kinda care.

 

As for Edge and Kane I see Kane going over but Edge laying him out after the match to get his heat back.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Vengence would be an interesting place to turn Benjamin heel if they're sending him to Smackdown. Just gave him snap on Carlito and reveal his gangsta side. They've done a good enough job of showcasing his rough youth via his vignettes so it wouldn't be impossible for Benjamin to turn and cut a promo talking about how he thought he'd buried the street side of him but Carlito winning like a bitch made him smarten up and realize that he's gotta start doing things differently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Problem is, Shelton will be cheered for his moves anyways.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

He'd modify his style into a more rugged type while still keeping the coolness. The announcers would put over the fact that if he isn't beating you on the mat or in the air then he's pounding the fuck out of you with his fists of fury.

[Guest Zarock]

Best case scenario for HHH v. Batista is mediocre with Batista making an "Unexpected, totally shocking comeback against all odds.". HBK vs. Angle will probably be above-average at best, but nothing too spectacular. I expect HBK will win like pretty much everyone else. The triple threat match is the only match that I'm still unsure about. The way I predict it is either:

 

A) Cena wins in a very unspectacular way (FU on Christian with Jericho out of the ring).

 

or

 

B) Cena lands the Five Knuckle Shuffle on Christian during a ref bump, Tomko interrupts, FU on Tyson, Jericho catches Cena afterwards with a clothesline out of nowhere and makes him tap with the Walls of Jericho.

 

Regardless, it's probably going to be forgettable, C+/B- at best.

 

Kane v. Edge is going to be super-lame. Kane will more than likely squash Edge for the first few minutes, then Edge'll do his typical briefcase smash for the win. Carlito vs. Benjamin is only going to be watchable if Shelton's gotten over that fall he took on RAW (which will more than likely happen) and Carlito's usually funny reactions (ok, they're funny to me at least). Cheap win by Carlito, or the possible KO by Carlito's newly appointed RAW back-up (the only really viable options are Masters and well, Snitsky) during a ref bump. I'm not going to touch the Victoria v. Christy match with a ten-foot pole unless I'm a promised a seriously wicked looking Widow's Peak.

 

All in all, I'm not going to order it, although I'll probably rent it just for the Carlito match (I'm a serious mark for him, even if his cowardly heel wrestling style is lame at times).

 

((On a side note, has anyone seen CCC's matches in the WWC? I figure if he's won the biggest title ever more then five times, it probably wasn't through illegal pins and hosses doing his dirty work.))

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I just hope they don't make the 10th HIAC the 5th Iron Man match like they did at Bad Blood last year with HHH / HBK.

[Dangerous A 0]

There is no way HHH and Tista are going longer than 25. I don't think Tista can physically go longer than 20-25 minutes max. If anything, I think they should cut to the chase and just have a 12-15 minute, brutality-on-a-stick fest as opposed to the usual HHH I-want-to-tell-a-story-thon that usually ends up in HHH and whoever telling a lame ass story.

[Angle-plex 0]

WWE Title Match

Hell in a Cell

Triple H Vs Batista

-The Hell in the Cell stipulation was only added to make this feud seem better than it actually is. If Batista beat Triple H...so what? The whole storyline since WM has been "Can Triple H finally beat Batista?", so look for him to either get the win, or have Batista win, go to Smackdown, and then we get another "epic" Triple H title feud with Cena.

 

World Title Match

Triple Threat

Christian Vs John Cena Vs Chris Jericho

-Christian is no good in the ring. Cena is no good in the ring. Jericho hasn't done anything memorable in the ring since vs HBK at WMXIX. Should be a forumula "One guy gets tossed out of the ring while the other two fight" triple threat match. Don't care who wins.

 

Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle

-The Wrestlemania match was dissapointing. This one has no buildup, and I can't see what the "story" or psychology of the match is going to be, so it will probably just end up looking like a video game match, with a lot of false finishes (so people can say that the match is good) and HBK getting the win.

 

Kane Vs Edge

-Horrible. Couldn't pay me to watch this trainwreck. Don't care who wins.

 

IC Title

Shelton Benjamin Vs Carlito Caribbean Cool

-Why should I care? CCC is horrible in the ring. Should have as much heat as their RAW match (or, zero).

 

Victoria Vs Christy Hemme

-Don't care.

[Guest The Fuckin Show]

The ppv looks very good to me. I will be really looking forward to HBK / Kurt part 2 which could be the biggest match in wrestling history

[Guest seth86]

I think Christian might pin Jericho to win the title and then jump to Smackdown. That way Cena can claim that Christian's never pinned him and not lose his momentum and they can probably have a match at Summerslam. Only problem with this scenario is that Jericho gets buried and stays on raw.

[Guest The Fuckin Show]

I would had rather seen Christian vs John Cena one on one. If Christian was to win the title this Sunday it would be a hue shock and a very great night. I belive Christian can carry the company. Im sure he will not get pinned if he is to lose which means he could carry on with bragging rights.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

1) Hunter and Batista are going long, as in at least 25 minutes. It doesn't matter that Batista doesn't have the ability to go that long, it doesn't matter that Hunter doesn't have the ability to carry Batista for a match that long, and it doesn't matter that having a match that long will require Batista to sell for a great deal of time, which is exactly what people DO NOT WANT TO SEE out of him. Hunter is into having long matches whether it's the best thing for business or not.

 

2) John Cena is not losing this Sunday, much less by submission, and anyone who thinks that is happening is an idiot.

[cabbageboy 0]

Did I just read HBK/Angle II could be the biggest match in history? Ha, it's barely even been mentioned on the shows, it's literally there so Angle can return the job to Shawn. If they wanted to do some really ballsy booking they could just have Kurt win it again, and then Shawn can keep coming after him. Not like either of these guys has anything to do after this.

[krease 0]

He'd modify his style into a more rugged type while still keeping the coolness.  The announcers would put over the fact that if he isn't beating you on the mat or in the air then he's pounding the fuck out of you with his fists of fury.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"beating the fuck out of him with his fists of fury" translated into JR-speak:

 

"BAW GAWD! Damn that Shelton Benjamin! The match is OVER! Somebody needs get down here and help <insert victim name here> before Shelton KILLS him! Come on, enough is enough! There's already blood everywhere!"

[Guest Ransome]

People are clearly uninterested in Vengeance because it's coming off the heels of ECW. Vengeance is, of course, normally a single-brand show where nothing of note happens. This year, however, they've raised the standard to include blowing off the biggest Raw feud of the year, tossing a potential MOTYC (in Angle/Shawn), and including *three* of Smackdown's most interesting stars on it. Maybe if Vengeance had taken place before ONS, people might actually be looking forward to it.

 

That said, I'm not in the least interested in seeing Vengeance 2005, except maybe a DVD rental in a few weeks time.

 

On a sidenote, check out Jericho's Vengeance history. Vengeance 2005: Most likely, pinned by John Cena. Vengeance 2002: Pinned by John Cena. Vengeance 2001: Pins the Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin back to back.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The problem Vengeance has coming after ONS, and it would have it even had it taken place before ONS, is that comes across as more of the same old shit we've long since tired of. It's a problem that is systemic of the general failure of WWE to hit the next 'boom period'; the same people on top, and the people that are catching on being successfully buried in manners of varying subtlety.

[zyn081 0]

WWE Title Match

Hell in a Cell

Triple H Vs Batista

-The Hell in the Cell stipulation was only added to make this feud seem better than it actually is. If Batista beat Triple H...so what? The whole storyline since WM has been "Can Triple H finally beat Batista?", so look for him to either get the win, or have Batista win, go to Smackdown, and then we get another "epic" Triple H title feud with Cena.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It would have been even lamer if Batista-HHH III was a normal match without a stipulation like their 1st 2 were.

 

I think Christian might pin Jericho to win the title and then jump to Smackdown. That way Cena can claim that Christian's never pinned him and not lose his momentum and they can probably have a match at Summerslam. Only problem with this scenario is that Jericho gets buried and stays on raw.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

SD only has 3 draft picks left. I keep on hearing the same 5 people mentioned. 5 into 3 just doesnt go.