PRIDE - Final Conflict

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

I'm so fuggin excited for this show. MIRKO! FEDOR! FINALFUCKINGLY!

 

I got the Opening MW GP show...wasn't overly impressed when the three opening fights were boring as hell (To their credit. Arona, Igor and Nakamura DID try...), and skipped the second round despite wanting to see it.

 

However, there was no fucking way I was skipping the finals. Shogun v.s. Alistair, Silva v.s. Arona, Mirko v.s. Fedor, Yoshida v.s. Abbot.

 

This show is STAAACKED.

 

Anyone else primed for this mofo?

[Guest Brian]

Can anyone link me up to the Wanderlei/Shogun video on MMAWeekly?

[Styles 0]

I'm so stacked, I'll likely be avoiding most sites that cover MMA for a few days since in perfect timing I'm going back to college on Sunday (no PPV) so will be ordering and taping the show at home and having it sent by mail.

 

Picks:

 

Werdum

Vovchanchyn

Yoshida

Silva

Shogun

Silva

Fedor

[AboveAverage484 0]

Can anyone link me up to the Wanderlei/Shogun video on MMAWeekly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=417

 

There ya go.

[Guest Brian]

Spoilers:

 

Igor vs. Nakamura

Round one came off strangely. There was a lot of passing guards and half guards and some reversals, so it looked good, but aside from a heel hook attempt by Nak and some rib shots from Igor, it didn't seem like much damage was being done.

Second round was a lot of the same. Igor blocked two shoots and took control. Nak almost had a kimura but couldn't hold on.

Nakamura by unanimous decision.

 

Wanderlei vs. Arona

Arona looks to have his chin out, but Wandy doesn't capitalize on it and Arona is able to score the takedowns. Wandy pulls guard twice it looks like, neither time Arona able to pass but he tries and puts in some shots. Wandy gets a yellow card for the first time, second time in guard the round ends. Looks to be Arona's.

Second round was Arona, pretty dominant it seemed. He was landing stuff both tanding and on the ground. Takes the unanimous decision. Wanderlei is human.

 

If Shogun loses, I'm out for the night.

 

Shogun vs. Overeem

Overeem was dominating early but lost it all when he went for a guillotine. Totally gassed it seems. Shogun took control of the fight from there, eventually getting mount and reigning down for a TKO. Said to be excellent.

 

Werdum vs. Roman

Werdum rules the ground and locks in a slick triangle for the win in the first.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

SHogun is the most explosive fighter in MMA today. Just...holey crap did he own Arona HAARD.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm sorry.

 

Did Shogun just.

 

Win.

 

The.

 

Whole.

 

Thing.

 

???

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

It appears so...Arona didn't seem to realize he was having his brains beat in.

 

*WHACK*

"..WTF was that?"

*WHACK*WHACK*WHACK*

"...Help me.."

*WHACK*WHACK*WHACK*WHACK*

*dead*

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Shogun out-wrestled Arona. Shogun had an OMAPLATA on Arona. Shogun out-struck Arona.

 

That's right.

 

Arona was SHPWN3DGUN!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

This is Shoguns coming out party. No more Japanese filler fights, it's time for him to step up and knock Jacksons head off. I think this guy is the dark horse of the tournament. He's a wilder version of Silva, and Jacksons problem in his 2 fights with Wanderlei was trying to contain the madness. Shogun by Murderizing. RD 1

 

- RRR (Apr 22 2005, 04:52 PM)

 

You're crazy.

 

- YPOV in response.

 

Hey RRR, wanna make an avatar bet on Rampage/Shogun?

 

I love my avatar, so I don't plan on losing it!

 

Rampage wins, you get an avatar of my choice, Shogun wins, you pick me an avatar. Loser sports the avatar for two weeks.

 

BTW, you are 0-2 against me, 

 

- BR4L

 

I think that match is happening soon. RRR is about to go 0-3 if EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER THAT PICKED RAMPAGE is correct.

 

- YPOV

 

Holy Crappin Crap. Shogun might just win this thing 

 

- RRR (Jul 18 2005, 05:11 PM)

 

Go Arona~! I think he can definitely hold Silva down for the 2 rounds. I have a feeling the refs will be more than happy to stand them up early, though. Still, he's my pick to not only upset Wanderlei but win it all.

 

- Deft

 

Oh, I couldn't really remember that fight since I only watched it once, I'll have to go back and check it out. And rewatching the Rampage fight, I'm less and less impressed with Shogun's standup It just seemed sloppy at times, and his Muay Thai technique isn't as sound as Alistair's. Rampage with a broken rib was just a sitting duck for most of those strikes. I might just go with Overeem by KO in their fight.

 

- BR4L (not learning his lesson)

 

If Chuck can KO Overeem, Shogun will go through him like a hot knife through butter.

 

- RRR (Jul 20 2005, 01:55 PM)

 

- To me, this (Nog/Rua) is the match which decides the entire tournament. If one guy beats the other, then it proves he can take any other guy in this tournament. Both guys are capable on their feet and on the ground, with Shogun being better standing and Noguiera being a Noguiera. Shogun is crazy, and Nog ain't. Chute Boxe vs. BTT. Fuck yeah.

 

- RRR (Jun 5 2005, 05:36 PM)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The man is a killer. An absolute killer.

 

- RRR (May 2 2005, 01:25 PM)

 

If the BTT guys are going to beat Shogun, it will either be by decision or late-in-the-fight submission. Shoguns jiujitsu 2 years ago was very impressive, I can't imagine how much he has improved since then. You are underrating it.

 

- RRR

 

[cartman mode]Also, Shogun's jiu-jitsu is hyah, while Arona and Rogerio's jiu-jitsu is HYAH[/cartman mode]

 

- BR4L

 

I'll just say this: All the steroids in the world won't make Shogun's punches any more accurate nor his takedown defense any less poo/Chute Boxe-esque.

 

- Lei Tong

 

In all seriousness, I think Overreem poses a big problem since he's rangey and is very technical, as opposed to Shogun who is sloppy. I also think Overreem is better on the ground than Shogun, which really isn't that impressive.

 

- YPOV (May 3 2005, 01:13 AM )

 

I'm ready for Shogun to lose, just to see you hop off of his bandwagon. Lil' Nog and Arona could handle him, I believe. Silva could too, Vovchanchyn and Overeem on the other hand, I don't know, and he would be way too much for a broken down Sakuraba to handle.

 

- BR4L (May 1 2005, 07:25 PM)

 

I don't bandwagon jump BR4L. Shogun beat that lil pussy-ass bitch loser Rampage and he'll destroy everyone else.

 

I've liked Shogun for a while now, since he debuted in PRIDE at least, it's more of a Flavour-of-the-month than Bandwagon jumping.

 

I think Shogun could take Silva, Igor and Alistair. Silva has a weak chin, as shown against Sak, Hendo, and Hunt. It's just with them, they didn't really capitalize on it like Shogun would. Shogun is a killer, IMO even more so than Wanderlei or his brother. Silva would be lunch meat against Shogun. Igor and Alistair would be out grappled on the ground by Shogun, easily, and I think would have lots of trouble with him standing.

 

The Other Nog is iffy, and Arona is the best bet. But Arona went to a decision against Ninja, and Shogun is better than his brother. Aronas wrestling could get Shogun on the ground, but I don't think he could keep Shogun there (Shogun did very well against Babalu on the ground) and the rules in PRIDE better favour Mauricio than the IFC, stand ups would be easier to get, so he could inflict more damage. Rua is one of the most entertaining fighters out there, it would be a shame if they paired him up with either guy in the next round just because they'd try to ride him out for a decision. I stand by Shogun winning the tournament, if him beating Rampage didn't teach you guys anything, then whomever he faces next hopefully will.

 

The UFC needs to get a hold of Shogun, or Ninja. The UFC fans love the knees, and they'd bring em in spades. Put em up against a can, let them get an impressive win, and build from there. Liddell vs. Either would be awesome.

 

- RRR

 

Ugh. I'm so sick of Shogun. A broken rib and cans doesn't impress me. He's exciting to watch and has potential, sure. I've just had enough of his bandwagon and want him to lose. Hopefully his TD defense has improved since the Babalu fight or he could be in for a long night against Arona, Rogerio, or Saku.

 

- Deft

 

I don't see him getting past the second round if he faces either of the BTT guys, which is what is most likely going to happen.

 

- YPOV

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

The Highlight of the night had to be Arona holding on to Silva and smack talking to him right before he got up, only to have Silva go "C'mon man, don't do that." Then seeing him get KTFO was better.

 

Wanderlei Silva proved that he's a one dimensional fighter, and I would put him at the bottom of the top five were I to make such a list.

 

Fedor could have KO'ed Cro cop on the feet, but I guess he wanted to play it safe and take it to the ground.

 

Shogun is the man at 205 in PRIDE, though PRIDE fucked themselves over with the matchmaking, considering that Silva is technically third in the Company, yet is the champion. Fucking retarded. How do they work out the situation now? My only guess is to have Silva defend his belt as its own entity and have Shogun's GP Belt be its own title as well.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I think he'd beat both Couture and Rampage in a rematch, although it wouldn't be nearly as dominant as yesterday. Anybody care to disagree?

Me, on Apr 3, 2004.

 

Rampage and Couture destroyed Chuck the first time around, nothing in his performance last night showed that he'd be able to beat them again as Tito never once pressed the fight towards him nor did he do any counter punching.

 

Simply put, the reason why Liddell lost against Randy and Quinton was because they were better strikers. Period.

You, right after.

 

The Chuck bandwagon rides on~!

 

For the record, I'd love to see him fight Shogun, that would be a crazy fight. While Horn isn't the best fighter out there, the way Chuck dismantled showed that his fight against Randy was no fluke; he knows how to stick to a gameplan, which was the key in beating Randy and won't gas out while doing it. Of course Randy probably won't do what he did last time, try to strike for the clinch, but honestly, what else could he do? Shogun however, is fucking nuts, and maybe that would throw Chuck off of his gameplan. It might happen, since Shogun technically isn't PRIDE's champion.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

In addition to Fedor not wanting to take chances on the feet disappointing me, him taking too many chances on the ground also disappointed me. Just stick to the sidemount guy, he kept going for full mount and failing, giving up guard. He doesn't seem to show patience and let things happen, he tried to force his way onto full mount and against someone as athletic and strong as Cro Cop it didn't work.

 

Maybe he needs to go to BTT and learn from Noguiera

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

To say that one loss makes Silva at the bottom of the LHW top five is well...uh...weird. Silva went FIVE YEARS without a single loss in the weight class. Arona did not submit him, he did not KO him. Arona won by decision, and hardly exposes Silva's one dimensional-ness.

 

Arona is the best ground fighter in PRIDE's Middleweight division, if not in PRIDE. No one has ever beaten him down there. Just because Silva couldn't escape doesn't mean it exposed him. Arona's even went on record already saying that Silva's guard was so good he couldn't pass, or attempt any type of submission. That hardly tells me he was exposed.

 

When Silva has lost by a KO or submission, we'll talk about losing him from #1 or #2, until then...No way does this make him any lower ranked.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Fedor also beat Crocop only using his left hand mostly. His thumb injury on his right hand was still there and you could see him ground and pounding Crocop with his just his left hand.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

To say that one loss makes Silva at the bottom of the LHW top five is well...uh...weird. Silva went FIVE YEARS without a single loss in the weight class. Arona did not submit him, he did not KO him. Arona won by decision, and hardly exposes Silva's one dimensional-ness.

 

Arona is the best ground fighter in PRIDE's Middleweight division, if not in PRIDE. No one has ever beaten him down there. Just because Silva couldn't escape doesn't mean it exposed him. Arona's even went on record already saying that Silva's guard was so good he couldn't pass, or attempt any type of submission. That hardly tells me he was exposed.

 

When Silva has lost by a KO or submission, we'll talk about losing him from #1 or #2, until then...No way does this make him any lower ranked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Silva did NOTHING on the ground. He did what Anderson Silva usually does, tie someone up and maybe go for a futile submission, hoping for a standup. A black belt in BJJ should be trying a lot more, or look a lot better. I think we can all agree that he's a shitty wrestler.

 

Shogun and Arona would have to be better then him. Right? How could you argue that they wouldn't? That makes him three. If Arona was able to ground and pound him like that, I'd hate to see what Randy Couture would do to him. Chuck Liddell is obviously going to be ranked better, due to solid wins over top competition and good showings. Hence why I'd put him at five.

[Guest Brian]

I'd still be leery of putting Arona ahead of Wanderlei because of a two-round victory over him. Arona showed way too many holes in his stand-up and I'm surprised Wanderlei was too afraid of a take-down to capitalize aggressively like Shogun. I don't even know if I'd rank Arona over Nog. Shogun, yeah, he showed all the tools in one night. Randy, I think Randy could match up with anybody, and despite liking Chuck and Wanderlei, I'm really hard-pressed to rank either of those two ahead of Randy. I don't know, I don't really like ranking anyone; I'd rather just log-jam Shogun, Wand, Chuck, and Randy at the top and call them a top four rather than try to differentiate between them; any of them could probably beat each other.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

That's fair, but at this point it's too much of an assumption to say Silva would beat Arona again. He lost to him pretty soundly, and while he did some stupid things, things that if he were to change he might beat him next time, in this fight he didn't do anything he needed to win and was essentially outclassed. You can even say Arona got the better of the fight on the feet since that low kick was pretty nasty.

 

Unless Wand proves himself again in another fight with Arona, I would have to say that Arona is the better fighter between the two.

[cameron chaos 0]

I guess Arona never forgot that incident a couple of years ago and while Wand was confident that he would beat Arona, Arona made sure that when the fight came around he was capable of handing Wand his ass.

 

Considering Wand was counting on a Shogun vs Axe Murderer final, I guess it rang true that a fighter should always take each fight on as if it were his last. I think Arona was completely unprepared for Shogun as he figured he'd got the biggest test in the undefeated champion and Chute Boxe leader out of his way and then the next thing he knew Shogun was flying towards him ready to kill.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

One win or loss does not make or break you. Wanderlai Silva went on the single most impressive winning spree in the history of MMA, and you want to move him from #1 because he lost by DECISION? Madness.

 

Ricardo Arona beat Wanderlai, I won't or can't denie that...but what happens in the GP doesn't mean it will happen in a regular fight. Fighters try to conserve their energy for the next round, and you could tell Silva was playing it safe for the most part. You cannot tell me that the fight would have went Arona's in a regularly scheduled fight because you can't. Fifteen minutes is five less then twenty, and Silva has a reputation of going balls out if he thinks he's losing.

 

That said, Arona won the fight dominately, and should be in the top three for this. He did what no one else could, but at the same time it was ONE VICTORY. Arona has never looked as impressive as he has lately, but that one victory was completely overshadowed when he got OWNED by Shogun.

 

Shogun...I'd put him at #2. He's what? 9-0 in PRIDE? Thats highly impressive. The problem is, is until Silva is beaten for that title belt he's carried for the last four or whatever years, he'll be #1 in my eyes...If they fight, I think Shogun could take out Silva, but that fight will probably never happen inless Shogun & Ninja leave Chute Box, so it's a rather moot point.

 

Edit: I should mention that I think everyone knows Silva's BJJ claims are blown out of preportion now. Silva's never shown any great ground skills beyond how to contain someone. He's like Mirko in that regard. No offense, just the ability to HOLD a bastard there. He's even mastered his own technique for getting up. The "Get the yellow card for stalling...then go for KO" technique. He even tried it against Arona...Didn't work.

[Guest Brian]

People dropped Randy over one loss.

 

Rethinking things, I might drop Wand out of that first tier, and move him into a second tier of Arona, Ortiz, and Lil Nog. It's so hard to say, but I was reading some stuff at DVDVR and you have to think that if Arona had so much control on the ground, does it vindicate Ortiz's victory over Wand?

 

I think the relationship between Wand and his ground game would be more similar to Belfort's problems and black belt status.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Silva seems pretty hesitant against great grapplers. He gave Yoshida so much respect standing by keeping his distance and picking his shots. He did the same to Arona, who has SHIT defense. His head was up, he never checked a single leg kick - Silva didn't capitalize, Shogun did. Arona simply had the paper to Silva's rock and GnP'd a victory. He does, however, have beautiful legkicks. Which has me wondering if he trains all offense and no defense... he must stand infront of a mirror all day shadow boxing...

 

Shogun is a better fighter than Wanderlei, and I think that's pretty safe to say. Wanderlei only has better punches, however it seems he only throws them against Stationary targets like a Kanehara, Tamura, or Sakuraba so that doesn't really affect anything. Shogun is more aggressive, he's wrestling and submissions are worlds better, and over-all standing I think he takes it too, on account of his aggression.

 

I ran out on to the street, I ran down the street, and I was yelling "WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!" when Shogun smashed Aronas face in. I was so happy seeing Fedor win, and Shogun winning in that manner just put me over the top. The swings I experienced watching the show were insane - going from REALLY happy to REALLY scared. It was quite the sight.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

I'm not saying Wanderlai is the best fighter in the world or anything. I'm saying it's unfair to drop Silva from #1 or #2 when he has not been beaten by anything other then a Decision in years. Thats my major statement.

 

The Couture comparison doesn't hold up, because Randy got KO'd. Silva went to a decision, there IS a difference.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Arona never once made any attempt to finish Silva, be it standing or on the ground. The decision victory was clearly his plan from the start as he was quite obviously scared shitless of Silva. If Silva had thrown the flurry at him in the first round that he threw within the last 40 seconds of round two we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I can only assume that Silva figured he'd be fighting Shogun and knew he'd be in for a war.

 

I think they should do Silva vs Shogun for the belt and give Arona a shot against the winner. Arona didn't win the GP, he comes second. While I agree that he deserves the chance to prove that him beating Silva wasn't a fluke I think Shogun deserves the chance to prove he's championship material even more.

[Guest Brian]

My point is is that there's anumber of fighters who can probably shut down Silva in a similar fashion, because he seems to fear the takedown. Ortiz, like I said earlier and like he has done before, will be happy throwing elbows and chipping away. And Couture?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Wandy is all about the knees and punches while in close and in the clinch and Coture doesn't seem to fear getting hit if he's going in for a takedown so I'd be very interested to see how that match would end up. I think if Randy chose to stay on his feet eventually one of those knees or punches would put him to sleep. I'd still take Wandy's punching power over Randy's dirty boxing.

 

Hey, Wandy and Randy. Now it REALLY has to happen.

[Guest Brian]

Wandy is all about the knees and punches while in close and in the clinch and Coture doesn't seem to fear getting hit if he's going in for a takedown so I'd be very interested to see how that match would end up. I think if Randy chose to stay on his feet eventually one of those knees or punches would put him to sleep. I'd still take Wandy's punching power over Randy's dirty boxing.

 

Hey, Wandy and Randy. Now it REALLY has to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think Randy will bring the game-planning, and it'll change how we think the fight will go. Which is part of why I'm surprised he lost to Chuck. I think the clinch would be really interesting and really dependent on where they hold the fight, because Randy does a good job of creating/drawing in space in the clinch as well as controlling his opponents weight, arm position, and neck. I think Randy can be knocked out again, and standing up does leave that open, but how aggresive will Wand be with someone who can take him down.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I guess Arona never forgot that incident a couple of years ago and while Wand was confident that he would beat Arona, Arona made sure that when the fight came around he was capable of handing Wand his ass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What incident do you speak of?

[cameron chaos 0]

I guess Arona never forgot that incident a couple of years ago and while Wand was confident that he would beat Arona, Arona made sure that when the fight came around he was capable of handing Wand his ass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What incident do you speak of?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Arona is motivated for fights other than his long-awaited bout with the Middleweight Champions, “We were in a restaurant in Japan about 4 years ago and the atmosphere between Wanderlei and me turned bad. Since then, we and our gyms have been rivals. There’s nothing emotional about it now, though. We’re both going to fight as professionals. Of course, we are still rivals, though. It’s good motivation. Rogerio lost to Shogun and I’ve beaten Ninja, so I’d like to beat Shogun, too.”

 

Credit: PRIDEFC.com

 

Apparently Arona didn't say hello to the Chute Boxe table at the time, Wand found it to be rude and said something to Arona as he walked by and the scene almost became unpleasant until the Noguiera brothers intervened and calmed the situation down. Both camps sat back down finished their meals in peace however they've had it in for one another since. They almost got into it at the weigh ins when they were having to stand close for a promo picture as well.

 

According to Brazilian journalist Marcelo Alonso:

 

"The two fighters stared down for about 5 seconds while the excited audience buzzed. Suddenly Wanderlei said: 'I'll break you up tomorrow' and Arona answered looking him in his eyes: 'We are going to see tomorrow in the ring'.