What if....

[TNABaddboi 0]

There's a thread in the WWE forum asking what would have happened if Shawn Michaels never hurt his back in 1998. I thought it'd be interesting to look at what most people consider to the the first turning point in TNA...Raven/Jarrett I at Destiny in April 2003. Its interesting since they are now clearly building to the one on one rematch they never had and it was easily the most anticipated match in TNA. It had the weird build of the heel chasing the face, which predictably had the affect of turning the face behind Raven. Everyone knows the story....allegedly Raven was supposed to go over, but his initial contract lapsed and he hadn't sign a new one, TNA balked at putting the title on an "uncontracted" worker and changed the finish. Raven didn't end up missed a day and the booking of the match, which had Jarrett overcoming interference from half the TNA locker room, pissed off the fans so much trash was thrown in the ring (not in a good way) and interest in the product turned down til AMW/XXX put on that killer cage match.

 

Raven's arrival marked the first time (and maybe only so far) that a single new arrival sparked interest in TNA, but that finish singled-handedly killed off the Nashville crowd and all the interest Raven's arrival created. So what if it didn't happen?

 

I think that if Raven went over in that match, the big winner would have been AJ Styles. It was clear that they were planning to put AJ on top eventually (the first match with Jarrett in February 2003 was testing whether he could work the ME style) and hindsight being 20/20, I think if Raven beat Jarrett and stayed heel (a dicey proposition I know), Styles would have been the one to dethrone him. I think Raven was getting face pops because he was opposite Jarrett, who's face run should have ended around the Styles match. So anyway, face Styles beats heel Raven, and isn't hamstrung by Russo trying to create heel heat and cheapening his first run (no way AJ, TNA's biggest piece of homegrown talent, should have held the belt the first time as a heel). Of course, we would have been robbed off the awesome AJ/D'Lo series and Styles would have still played Jarrett's bitch eventually, but I honestly think TNA would have been better off if the finish went as planned. AJ's first reign would certainly have been more memorable and maybe he wouldn't be viewed as the Jericho of TNA's ME event scene now.

 

IIRC, Jarrett/Raven drew TNA's highest paid gate ever (maybe bested by VR, but that's it). I think that if they didn't piss off the Nashville fans, they could have had a chance to continue to draw paying fans in Nashville. At that moment, the fanbase there, which was just getting used to paying for TNA, was killed because they didn't get what they wanted. It wasn't even a delayed gratification deal. They just never got it. TNA, which promoting itself as listening to the fans, totally ignored what the fans clearly showed they wanted that night. Raven didn't win the belt for another 2 years. He only flirted with the ME occasionally after that, always playing second fiddle to the never-ending Jarrett/Russo feud that only Jarrett and Russo cared about. I don't even think TNA could draw in Nashville now if they ran Raven/Jarrett II there. Of course, part of that was the way they left Nashville without really announcing they were leaving, but that's another discussion entirely. Thoughts? Will we see a repeat at Bound for Glory?

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

If we see a repeat at BFG, expect almost all interest in TNA to die until Samoa Joe wins the World title. Raven was the hottest thing TNA had going for it, since it was obvious to just about everybody that the guy could work enjoyable matches, cut great promo's, and was horribly misused everywhere but ECW (where he was given creative freedom, which he was given a little in TNA)...so why put Jarrett over? A contract dispute. Raven screwed himself by not signing the deal, since if Jarrett went over, the whole Extreme Revolution gang (Sandman, New Jack, Saturn, Justin Credible) wouldn't have been punked out after murdering Jarrett, but rather little interference would've happened, and it probably would've gone to either a draw or Jarrett going over after a ton of interference against Raven.

[Guest Coffey]

I dunno, it's a tough call. I assume people would rally behind Raven like they were until they got tired of him. Fans are fickle. Eventually, the bandwagon would stop. I assume AJ would've won the title again eventually. The only difference is maybe Abyss would've got a reign in their somewhere. That's how I see it.

 

Raven was a hot commodity at the time though. I think TNA missed the boat.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I'm always in favor of Raven getting a world title reign

 

I lost track of TNA for a while, but I heard he won the title, does he still have it?

[TNABaddboi 0]

  I'm always in favor of Raven getting a world title reign

I lost track of TNA for a while, but I heard he won the title, does he still have it?

 

Yeah, he won in June and has held it since. He's only defended it once, defeating Abyss, but he's defending it against Rhino next month.

[Ravenbomb 0]

awesome, hopefully he has it when they debut on Spike

[TNABaddboi 0]

All signs point to him having it when they debut on Spike, because it seems that they are building to the rematch between him and Jarrett to headline they're major PPV (which is a couple of weeks after the debut), but considering the history of Jarrett and them debuting on TV (see the FSN debut), he might not have it long.

[Michrome 0]

It's hard to see Jarrett having another long reign, since he has beaten everyone. Raven, on the other hand, can at least do some interesting title defenses post Jarrett. Brown, Daniels, Dudleys, Nash, and a couple others could at least keep Raven busy for a while, but I guess it all depends on where they're going with Joe. If they want to push Joe to the top title, then a build to undefeated Joe vs. Raven could actually be something really worth watching, even if the actual match sounds terrible.

[Magus 0]

It's pretty common knowledge that Jarrett/Raven I was ruined by Jarrett winning. Therefore, common sense tells us that Raven should win at BFG. I don't know if they're going to go with the "loser leaves" stip, though. Raven could easily have some good defenses against Nash, Daniels, and a few others until they can rebuild Monty Brown and hand the title off to him.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

It wasn't the fact that Jarrett went over Raven at Destiny, it was the fact that he did so AFTER BEING COMPLETELY FUCKING MURDERED WITH A DOUBLE SUPERKICK CON-CHAIR-TO, A BUNCH OF SINGAPORE CANE SHOTS, NEW JACK BEATING HIM DOWN, AND RAVEN HITTING THE DDT 3 TIMES (ONE OF WHICH HAD JARRETT WITH HIS HANDS CUFFED BEHIND HIM). Then, Sabu comes in, hits a chairshot on Raven, and BAM! Jarrett wins with The Stroke.

 

If Jarrett won after little-to-no interference from the Extreme Revolution, or won after the "Traditionalists" came out and beat down Raven (AMW, Styles, Lynn, and some of the other faces), then I wouldn't care too much, but as it is that match buried Raven and hurt his credibility as a serious World title contender for a long time.

[Guest JebusNassedar]

If we see a repeat at BFG, expect almost all interest in TNA to die until Samoa Joe wins the World title.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Joe's never winning the world title.

 

No one in the heavyweight division is willing to bump and be there for the fury that is Vader Hashimoto.

 

Joe works regularly with EVERYONE in the X-Divison, and they're used to it and wont complain.

 

Joe/Abyss was the most dull shit when it happened in IWA MS.

 

So, get ready for the three year X-Division Title Reign. He's never gonna be in the heavyweight division.

 

And that's a good thing, actually. Every good junior division has a bully. Joe is the ultimate bully. So while everyone wants Joe with the NWA title, just give it up. It's not logical. The matches will be bad, they wont want him to talk (which pisses me off so bad), and he wont have anyone to feud with but Styles. Whooooo. I don't want to see that much Joe/Styles.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I can't see TNA not eventually putting the World title on Joe if he stays there long enough. Because, in a year's time, the World title scene will probably have changed a little bit (hopefully, and this is a BIG HOPEFULLY, Ron Killings will have gotten back into the title picture, ditto Styles), and I highly doubt that Raven, of all people, wouldn't be willing to do some sick bumps to get a guy with talent over.

 

Jarrett? Yeah, wouldn't be up for the stiffness and big bumps, but mostly because he likely can't dish it back out to Joe.

Raven? Ummm, his career was MADE off of hardcore brawling involving a few big bumps per match, so I doubt he wouldn't take on Joe.

Rhino? There'd be concern about his neck, but see "Raven."

 

Who else is there in the World title scene? I could see Styles, Daniels, and hopefully Killings getting into it within a year's time, and I doubt Killings wouldn't at least bump for Joe, so yeah. Plus, isn't Joe one of the guys that works stiff but doesn't hit hard anywhere on somebody that would cause injury?