WCW wrestlers acquired by old WWF in 2001

[IWD 0]

I've scouted the web quite a bit, but haven't managed to come across anything yet.

 

Does anyone know where I could find a list?

 

Cheers.

[CanadianChris 0]

Booker T, Diamond Dallas Page, Chris Kanyon, Buff Bagwell, Torrie Wilson, Lance Storm, Sean O'Haire, Mike Awesome, Chuck Palumbo, Stacy Kiebler, Shane Helms, Shannon Moore, Mike Sanders, Hugh Morrus, Billy Kidman, Elix Skipper, Chavo Guerrero Jr, Shawn Stasiak, Jamie Noble, Kaz Hayashi, Jimmy Yang and Mark Jindrak.

 

Some of them never made it onto WWF TV (Elix Skipper, Kaz Hayashi, Mike Sanders) or didn't last very long (Bagwell), but their contracts were all bought by the WWF.

[Black Lushus 0]

any reason why they didn't try to go after established stars to at least attempt to make the Invasion work? guys like Hogan, Sting, Nash, Goldberg, Stiener? Yes I know they eventually got most of them, but why not right away? Did they have those deals where they could sit out their current contracts for however long and still get paid?

[CanadianChris 0]

any reason why they didn't try to go after established stars to at least attempt to make the Invasion work?  guys like Hogan, Sting, Nash, Goldberg, Stiener?  Yes I know they eventually got most of them, but why not right away?  Did they have those deals where they could sit out their current contracts for however long and still get paid?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was the main sticking point. All of those wrestlers were getting paid way more by AOL to sit at home and do nothing than they would have had they accepted a buyout from the WWF.

[Black Lushus 0]

In other words, Invasion failed even before Vince could fuck it up?

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Any reason Johnny Stamboli doesn't show up on that list?

[Fökai 0]

How was HE the only guy that wasn't cut out of the guys that went to HWA?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

In other words, Invasion failed even before Vince could fuck it up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. Vince fucked it up by running with the angle anyways.

[LoRisk 0]

I'm pretty sure DDP wasn't one of the guys who was originally picked up. I think he took a buyout a few months later.

 

Stamboli...I don't remember seeing him on the list of guys who were picked up, so he was probably signed a little while later.

 

The Wall and Evan Karagias were also among the guys picked up, but neither ever made TV.

 

Yang was actually released, too, but they signed him again after a match he had with Tommy Dreamer on Heat.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

How was HE the only guy that wasn't cut out of the guys that went to HWA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because he had a good look, was strong, and was pretty athletic.

[Fökai 0]

How was HE the only guy that wasn't cut out of the guys that went to HWA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because he had a good look, was strong, and was pretty athletic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He was a walking antique, though. The only time he ever stayed relatively healthy was the summer of 2003...and even then he got injured again.

 

They could've at least done something with Skipper, or play off of the popularity of Mike Sanders.

[Guest MikeSC]

In other words, Invasion failed even before Vince could fuck it up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not like the guys were big draws since 1998 anyway.

 

Vince handled Invasion as well as it could be handled. He was just stuck with a company lots of people loathed laden with talent too green for the position they were in.

 

This wasn't nearly the level of NWA fucking over UWF.

[Dangerous A 0]

In other words, Invasion failed even before Vince could fuck it up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not like the guys were big draws since 1998 anyway.

 

Vince handled Invasion as well as it could be handled. He was just stuck with a company lots of people loathed laden with talent too green for the position they were in.

 

This wasn't nearly the level of NWA fucking over UWF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I have to disagree. Once Vince booked the Invasion to be a total squash by WWE and fans picked up on it, that's when the ball rolled downhill. The huge Invasion PPV buyrate shows people were interested in the concept, but after that show, once they portrayed all the WCW and ECW players as second rate citizens and pushed Stone Cold and the McMahon kids as the puppet masters, the thing fell flat on it's face.

[Fökai 0]

So why they'd shit on Booker/Bagwell, then?

 

The WWF and WCW were horribly bi-polar in how they worked a match. They needed stars to get the initial Invasion over, because it would take time for the WWE-bred fans to even be reconditioned to workers like Booker or Page.

 

On that note, who did you all think was believeable enough to head the Invasion with Booker on a star-power scale? Waiting around for guys like Steiner, Hogan and Nash, even in a restricted role that kept them out of the ring, would've done wonders for the angle.

[CanadianChris 0]

So why they'd shit on Booker/Bagwell, then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because it was a horrible match and everyone knew it.

[Guest MikeSC]

In other words, Invasion failed even before Vince could fuck it up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not like the guys were big draws since 1998 anyway.

 

Vince handled Invasion as well as it could be handled. He was just stuck with a company lots of people loathed laden with talent too green for the position they were in.

 

This wasn't nearly the level of NWA fucking over UWF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to disagree. Once Vince booked the Invasion to be a total squash by WWE and fans picked up on it, that's when the ball rolled downhill. The huge Invasion PPV buyrate shows people were interested in the concept, but after that show, once they portrayed all the WCW and ECW players as second rate citizens and pushed Stone Cold and the McMahon kids as the puppet masters, the thing fell flat on it's face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, MOST of the talent was far too green to be used as top-tier guys. They simply were. Sean O'Haire may have had potential (nothing but potential, apparently), but he was not close to being ready for TV. If he was WWE prospect, he'd have been in OVW for another year or so before he appeared on TV.

 

The WWE could've broken the bank to sign guys like Steiner, GB, Hogan, Nash, et al --- and it would've been a fiasco.

 

Remember how well they drew when the WWE DID bring them in? That would've been the case in 2001 as well.

 

The Invasion gave us some good matches, but WCW was so vastly inferior that the angle couldn't work. It'd be like expecting a Mexicools v whomever the fuck HHH will end up working with angle to work.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Again, MOST of the talent was far too green to be used as top-tier guys. They simply were. Sean O'Haire may have had potential (nothing but potential, apparently), but he was not close to being ready for TV. If he was WWE prospect, he'd have been in OVW for another year or so before he appeared on TV.

 

Judging by WWE's track record of calling prospects up, I don't think so.

[Dangerous A 0]

So why they'd shit on Booker/Bagwell, then?

 

They didn't stand a chance from the moment this thing was a go. Didn't matter if they had a bad match (which they did) or a good one, the crowd, who paid to see WWF Raw, didn't want the show to end with Nitro.

 

The WWF and WCW were horribly bi-polar in how they worked a match. They needed stars to get the initial Invasion over, because it would take time for the WWE-bred fans to even be reconditioned to workers like Booker or Page.

 

On that note, who'd did you all think was believeable enough to head the Invasion with Booker on a star-power scale? Waiting around for guys like Steiner, Hogan and Nash, even in a restricted role that kept them out of the ring, would've done wonders for the angle.

 

 

You are correct in that there was a styles clash. It wasn't like they couldn't work though it though. Guys in the WWF lockerroom were not going to let newbies from "down south" show them up or take their spots, so they claimed they couldn't work. It might've taken some time, but less time than you think.

 

The Alliance definitely could've used the star power of Hogan, Flair, etc, but it like they couldn't have forged ahead without them. The Invasion buyrate proved that. There was interest in the feud with mostly midcard players. Once people caught on that this wasn't even a competition and just a glorified squash, the angle tanked. The feud had zero hope when they decided to not put over any of the WCW/ECW guys. All the positions of power in the Alliance were actually WWE guys. (Austin, Angle, Steph, Shane) My thing is, they didn't even try with any of the WCW guys.

[Fökai 0]

So why they'd shit on Booker/Bagwell, then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because it was a horrible match and everyone knew it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or a match in a WWE-dominated region with a tweener and midcard joke act that no one was willing to buy?

 

Neither have these big, flashy moves that the fans will pop for. Nobody, at that time, knew their finishing manuevers or knew the build to them. No one cared for their taunts, either. No one exactly understood their roles in the match or in the angle, either.

 

And we, the WWF fans, are supposed to care about them?

[Fökai 0]

Once people caught on that this wasn't even a competition and just a glorified squash, the angle tanked

 

Give me a counter roster for Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Angle, Kane, Big Show and Jericho.

[Dangerous A 0]

Once people caught on that this wasn't even a competition and just a glorified squash, the angle tanked

 

Give me a counter roster for Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Angle, Kane, Big Show and Jericho.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can't really. In hindsight, you aren't going to counter that roster. However, they gave no one on the Alliance side a chance. Even RVD, who was as big a styles clash as they come, was getting over huge to the point they couldn't hold him out of one Main event (No Mercy) and they still wouldn't even attempt to get him over. Thing is, this was booked to be a squash from pretty much the get go. I'm not even saying they did it out of malice, but they couldn't or wouldn't even try with the Alliance guys and they weren't about to let any of them get over by hook or by crook. Were some of them green and a styles clash? Yes. But none were ever in a position to be anything except background for Steph and Shane. It was doomed to fail. The angle should've never have gone forward in the first place. It'd be one thing if they would've tried and it failed, but the chance was never there. It'll always be could'a, would'a, should'a. in regards to the Invasion angle.

[Guest MikeSC]

Vince TRIED to make WCW the faces. That was the initial plan and it tanked immediately because of how much the fans booed the very first match.

 

The angle had to be changed, dramatically, from the first day.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I still have to say this: "Death of WCW" was right about this...

 

WCW did an invasion by WWF angle better than WWF did an invasion by WCW angle.

[Guest MikeSC]

WWF was far closer in terms of competitive balance with WCW at the time than WCW was with WWF at the time of Invasion.

 

It'd be like griping that Vince "dropped the ball" if he tried an AWA invasion in 1989.

[Golgo 13 0]

As far as the 'WCW 24' package is concerned, I actually used to have it written down somewhere, but threw it out. Thankfully, I found a Q&A at Pro Wrestling Insider from April of last year.

 

As said, DDP came along later, as did Booker T, Kanyon, Bagwell, and Torrie. As I recall, both DDP and Booker had to accept contract buyouts. Booker pretty much jumped ship right away, while DDP waited it out a bit, but soon followed suit. Kanyon and Bagwell were waiting a short time for their contracts to expire. Likewise, Kidman and KroniK, who also signed around the same time, had to wait it out in some form or another. I doubt WWF ever really had designs on picking up Bagwell, but when his contract came up they probably figured, 'Why not?'

 

Torrie was already a free agent, having already been fired by WCW when they purged the women's roster months before the buyout, leaving Stacy as just about the only woman left.

 

Here's the list from PWI:

 

Mike Awesome

Hugh Morrus (Bill DeMott)

Lance Storm

Chavo Guerrero Jr.

Shawn Stasiak

Johnny the Bull

Shane Helms (Hurricane)

Shannon Moore

Evan Karagias

Chuck Palumbo

Sean O'Haire

Mike Sanders

Mark Jindrak

Elix Skipper

Allen Funk (Kwee Wee)

Lash Larue

The Wall

Kaz Hayashi

Jimmy Howard (Jamie Noble)

James Yun (Jimmy Yang, now Akio, who was released and later returned)

Miss Hancock/Stacy Keibler

Reno

Sam Loman (Kid Romeo)

Jason Boils (EZ Money)

[ChrisMWaters 0]

WWF was far closer in terms of competitive balance with WCW at the time than WCW was with WWF at the time of Invasion.

 

It'd be like griping that Vince "dropped the ball" if he tried an AWA invasion in 1989.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Still...you're gonna tell me that, if by some chance Vince had allowed the WCW guys to act like Hall and Nash did when they first came to WCW that the invasion wouldn't have worked?

 

...well, at the very least it would have been better than what happened.

[Dangerous A 0]

WWF was far closer in terms of competitive balance with WCW at the time than WCW was with WWF at the time of Invasion.

 

It'd be like griping that Vince "dropped the ball" if he tried an AWA invasion in 1989.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's a very good point.

 

Here is a question. If WWE had brought in the big names (Goldberg, Hogan, Steiner, Flair, Sting, whoever) do you still think they would've booked the squash that they did? Or was WCW's rep so far gone that it wouldn't have mattered who lead the Invasion, it would've tanked? From what I gather, you (and for the most part others) say that the Alliance side had nothing to offer, therefore we get what we got. (which still doesn't seem right to me) However, if the guys who were identified more closely with WCW were brought in from the start, do you think they would've done business differently? I don't think they would.

[Fökai 0]

Here is a question. If WWE had brought in the big names (Goldberg, Hogan, Steiner, Flair, Sting, whoever) do you still think they would've booked the squash that they did? Or was WCW's rep so far gone that it wouldn't have mattered who lead the Invasion, it would've tanked?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The workers they brought in for the Invasion weren't believeable enough to take on the entire promotion. The reason the nWo worked in that regard was they teased dissention in the WCW ranks, while only focusing on the main eventers by taking them out with the entire stable. When did you ever see a 1-on-1 beatdown by the nWo? Anyway, it's a toss-up as to whether they could've successfully booked the Invasion that way. I mean, it's not just three wrestlers picking on two guys. It's nearly twenty workers, not including the ECW stable, there to represent the WCW. If you're going to do a gang warfare angle that's basically 'promotion versus promotion', you've to be ready to counter the mega-stars like Austin, Rocky, Angle, Taker and Helmsley. The WCW and ECW, with the paper-thin rosters they were given, each had a single guy that could stand toe-to-toe with them in crowd reaction, and that's Booker and Van Dam. The writers, at that stage, had no choice but to pair them together, which was the deathknell for the angle.

 

I'm absolutely positive that a charge led by either Goldberg or the Outsiders and Hogan would've changed the minds of every fan out there. If the writers booked the nWo to AID the Invasion stable against the WWE, I think we know how it would've played out differently.

 

EDIT: Van Dam and Dreamer could've joined the WCW ranks simply because they despised the WWF, or they could've slowly recruited their followers from the Titan side until it was believeable enough for ECW to stand on its own away from the two promotions.

[Dangerous A 0]

The WCW and ECW, with the paper-thin rosters they were given, each had a single guy that could stand toe-to-toe with them in crowd reaction, and that's Booker and Van Dam. The writers, at that stage, had no choice but to pair them together, which was the deathknell for the angle.

 

 

Agreed on the paper thin rosters. However, the death knell for the actual ECW/WCW unification was Stephanie being announced as the storyline owner of ECW. Whatever ECW mutant fanbase that was interested quickly tuned out because none of them were buying into Steph as ECW's owner.

 

 

Anyway, it's a toss-up as to whether they could've successfully booked the Invasion that way. I mean, it's not just three wrestlers picking on two guys. It's nearly twenty workers, not including the ECW stable, there to represent the WCW. If you're going to do a gang warfare angle that's basically 'promotion versus promotion', you've to be ready to counter the mega-stars like Austin, Rocky, Angle, Taker and Helmsley.

 

Good point. Another reason they shouldn't have gone through with the angle in the first place.

 

 

I'm absolutely positive that a charge led by either Goldberg or the Outsiders and Hogan would've changed the minds of every fan out there. If the writers booked the nWo to AID the Invasion stable against the WWE, I think we know how it would've played out differently.

 

This is where I part company with you because I don't think the McMahons have it in them to let people from the competition, even if they really aren't competition anymore, go over in any way shape or form. Even if the intention would be to have WWF go over in the end (which is what the plan should be) they wouldn't let the invaders go over in the beginning as they should to heat the feud up.

 

Basically, I don't think the McMahons can successfully do an interpromtional war type angle because they want too much control and won't let anyone but their guys over. That's not to say they don't do other angles and feuds well because they aren't the top promotion in the world without some measures of success, but the very nature of the McMahon's wouldn't allow for the Invasion to be successful IMO.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Basically, I don't think the McMahons can successfully do an interpromtional war type angle because they want too much control and won't let anyone but their guys over ...but the very nature of the McMahon's wouldn't allow for the Invasion to be successful IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

McMahon has never done an interpromotional angle the right way, because he can never, and will never, allow stars that he didn't create to look superior to his own talent. It didn't matter that he owned WCW and they were his talent; he didn't create them, so they couldn't be any good, right? That terrible Booker/Bagwell match didn't help, but WCW were behind the eight ball going in.

 

And I find the statement that Vince handled the Invasion as well it could have been to be one of the most stupid and idiotic things I've ever heard.