Good lifting plan?

[randomguy 0]

Dama you need to relax dude.

 

The most important thing is to stay motivated, stick with it, eat well, etc.

 

I've never been the type to put together a solid plan. I don't have some elaborate scheme, and I'm not trying to get a perfect physique so I can go out and win Mr. Olympia. But I'm strong for my size, look trim and pretty ripped, have abs, etc.

 

From your other postings it sounds like your diet is pretty suspect, and if you are trying to slim down that is a real problem.

 

---

 

If you want to avoid "gym muscles" (muscles that look good but are not really good for anything) there are bunch of things to do. Use your muscles in new ways. Mix up your routines. Do wind sprints, do long-distance running. Try a new thing every so often.

 

A lot of guys are "country strong" because they use their bodies in real ways. If you are going to Judo throw someone or powerbomb someone or whatever that isn't just your biceps or your quads or whatever, it's you entire body working in unison.

 

Muscles have to learn to work together. Your body is a machine you have to learn how to drive.

 

Using a machine to target a very specific area is something you do if you want to be a body builder or if that area needs serious help. The problem with isolation is that your muscles don't learn to work together and you don't learn how to pilot your body.

 

The reason people are saying use free weights, do dead lifts and presses and pull ups etc, is that those require muscle group coordination.

 

My advice is come up with a core routine that works major muscles groups and add some variety to that.

[EricMM 0]

Which is my entire freaking point.

 

DRH is going off like some fool weight lifter.

 

Guess what, Dama SAID he wanted to gain strength, not become a body builder. If he had said he wanted to be a body builder, I would have given him different advice, or perhaps no advice at all, since body builders are frankly stupid.

 

The reason you have to work an awful lot on your calves to get them big is because they are freaking TINY muscles. The only way to get them big is to be HEAVY. Work them costantly with being heavy. Machines can in no way substitute for that. If you only weigh 150, you'll have thinner calves than someone at 170.

 

Also, every time you run, you're exercising your calf muscles. And you're also exercising your flexors, and I think quads. Isolation exercises are only reasonable if you need to isolate muscles, and the last thing martial arts are is isolation. You're frankly wasting your time and misusing your muscles if you're using your biceps and triceps as lifting muscles.

 

You really really really need to figure out what you are going for here. If you are going for strength, exercise the major muscle groups to exhaustion using 8-12 reps of the heaviest weight possible, up to 3 sets. If you are going for endurance in anything, do THAT THING. IF you are looking for definition, cut your fat, and DO isolate, because definition comes from having large biceps and triceps and so on. But that doesn't build strength, or really up your metabolism, because they are insignifigant muscles in the grand scheme of your body.

 

And as others have mentioned, it's an artificial and unnatural motion. The biceps is not a natural lifting muscle, it is an auxillary and stabilizing muscle while your back does the lifting. Ditto the tricep with your chest press, for instance. That's what it's SUPPOSED to be doing.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Matt Hughes said if he had to work just three muscle groups, it would be the back, legs, and shoulders.

 

He also said Judo is essentially useless, so maybe you shouldn't listen to him.

[Damaramu 0]

Maybe he meant that b/c most Judo is really difficult to do without a gi?

 

Anyway I see what you're saying. And I hate doing biceps and triceps anyway so I will probably take your advice.

I know one thing. My back and dorsi muscle got one HELL of a workout doing the seated row yesterday because today it's sore.

 

Hey what's a good exercise for the lower back? Or will that get worked out doing other things and because the rest of my back is getting a workout doing the seated row it'll be ok?

[Guest wildpegasus]

The thing about the machines that make them so evil is that they force you in one direction and from that comes injury.

[EricMM 0]

Yes your back is getting a work out doing other things. Any time you're keeping your upper body straight while running, dancing, swimming, you're exercising your upper back. If you want more strength there, do the thing where you lock your legs and do reverse sit ups, maybe eventually with a weight.

 

I would say abs and lower back are the one area of your body where going past 12 to 15-30 reps is fine, because your core is so dependant on ALWAYS being used, you need endurance there.

 

After you do dips or pushups or bench presses or however, you're doing chests, you'll notice your triceps are flexed. Ditto backs and biceps. Do not worry you're working your whole body.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah but I can never seem to feel the bench press in my chest. Just my arms. Ditto for the seated row. And I'm doing the row exactly as directed. I even had someone at the gym show me how to do it right.

 

What about the lower back? I assume the row works it but what else is a good exercise for it? Aside from the reverse sit ups thing.

 

Since I'm still playing around with things I think next time I go in I'll concentrate heavily on my chest, back, and shoulders. I'll still do my leg exercises(they do get worked with everything else i do though) and then maybe some curls with light weight but if I don't get around to working the biceps and triceps then I won't worry too much.

 

I have always pitied the fools that spend hours on their biceps and then they do like one exercise for everything else(and don't even do legs) and then leave.

[randomguy 0]

When I do bench presses I feel it in my shoulders (I go down really low, I feel the shoulders at the low point) and triceps, not in my chest. But the next day I can feel it in my chest.

[EricMM 0]

You pity those fools but then you foolishly focus on your calfs, so...

[Damaramu 0]

Because I was told they were hard to add mass too and I thought they were a pretty important part of leg strength.

Besides I pity the way they are only doing bicep curls so that they can be like "look at my guns!" while the rest of their body is neglected. Nobody walks up and lifts there jeans and goes "Look at these guns on my legs! Yeah!" That's not why I'm doing it.

[Guest DRH 502]

All I know is...i've got muscles, and I know how I got them.

 

 

 

Best advice, go walmart. You can get a nice set of pecs there for pretty cheap...they've had calves on sell up there for a while now.

[Damaramu 0]

Really? How much?

 

Anyway I have the workout plan I'm going to work on all layed out and I'll give it a shot on my next lifting day. And I put down the calf raises, bicep curls, and tricep extensions as optional because I'll only do them if I have time or feel like it. I'm hardcore concentrating on my chest, back, and shoulders. I'm doing stuff for legs but they get a ton of workout running and doing kickboxing.

 

It sucks only being able to lift on Tuesday and Thursday and having kickboxing Monday and Wednesday. It means that I don't really get much muscle workout Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Oh well I can still run.

 

Also does anyone know a lot about dieting? On that website I've been using it said not to use low calorie diets because if you go too low then your metabolism will slow down and you'll pretty much be back where you started.

[Angle-plex 0]

Low card diets leave you flat and your workout and strength will suffer as a result, unless you are taking steroids.. For cutting you keep carbs about 1g per body weight, maybe a little more I think.

[Guest DRH 502]

I would have given him different advice, or perhaps no advice at all, since body builders are frankly stupid.

 

I felt the need to point the ignorance of this statement out. Carry on.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I would have given him different advice, or perhaps no advice at all, since body builders are frankly stupid.

 

I felt the need to point the ignorance of this statement out. Carry on.

 

Yeah, I take offence to that statement too. You should be especially careful when you say stuff like that EricMM because there have been things in this thread that you have said which are flat out wrong.

 

Please don't take that the wrong way or anything. A lot of people have mistaken viewpoints on training and diet.

[EricMM 0]

I do think it is stupid to build your body for appearance instead of strength, or pure machine strength with no endurance or stamina.

 

So sue me.

 

And, Dama, your calves will be fine. They may never ever get massive, but thats not their function. Again, as I said, you should never ever be lifting weight with your calves solely, so don't focus on them solely. Thats my point.

[Guest DRH 502]

I'm a country boy. I work for a living. I pack lumber all day. I guarentee unless you are like 250 pounds of pure muscle that I have WAY more practical and useable strength than you. I can put a 300 pound steel beam on my shoulder balanced and walk around with it. Why do I need to lift for strength? I've been doing that shit my whole life, working since I was 12. I have all the strength in the world. Strength doesn't equal muscle. I lift to gain muscle, I work a man's work to make myself strong.

 

I'm Matt Hughes' illegitamate son. Thread over.

[Damaramu 0]

I'm Matt Hughes' illegitamate son. Thread over.

 

He does look like an odd cross between Matt Hughes and Vanilla Ice.....

[randomguy 0]

Why are you trying to add mass Dama?

 

If you are doing martial arts the last thing you want is a bunch of mass that doesn't do anything but look good.

 

And I agree with Eric - body building is pretty fucking lame in general, it's not about strength or athleticism or anything, it is purely looks. The only reason to train like a body builder is if you don't want to be strong or have endurance but just want to look ripped. Because that's what body-building is - purely visual.

 

For someone looking to do martial arts training like a body builder is beyond dumb.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Why are you trying to add mass Dama?

 

If you are doing martial arts the last thing you want is a bunch of mass that doesn't do anything but look good.

 

And I agree with Eric - body building is pretty fucking lame in general, it's not about strength or athleticism or anything, it is purely looks. The only reason to train like a body builder is if you don't want to be strong or have endurance but just want to look ripped. Because that's what body-building is - purely visual.

 

For someone looking to do martial arts training like a body builder is beyond dumb.

 

sighs

[Guest DRH 502]

Thats just bullshit puny little girls who aren't man enough to pack on muscle say to justify their lack of a decent build. Keep on keepin' on, scrawns.

[Angle-plex 0]

What's wrong with wanting to look good in the first place?

[randomguy 0]

My point is that "packing on muscle" is not an end in itself, especially if you are trying to do martial arts.

 

There is nothing wrong in wanting to look good, but not everyone has looking good (in the body builder way, which is highly subjective) as their primary goal.

 

Dama is an overweight dude (no offense) trying to shape up and do various MMA stuff. Training like a body builder for that is retarded.

 

You can sigh all you want. Adding mass for the sake of adding mass is purely aesthetic. For a martial artists it's pointless unless you are trying to move above your natural weight class or something like that.

 

Body building is all about looks, not about athleticism or endurance or strength. There is no athletic test involved, there is no athleticism on display. For all their muscles body builders don't actually have to lift anything or show any real strength to win, and in fact super-strong people usually looking nothing like body builders. Body building is judged based only on appearance. That's the way it works.

 

If you want to work out to look like a body-builder fine, that's your choice. There is nothing inherently wrong like that. But if your goal is something other than "look like a body builder" then training like a body builder is misguided.

 

Edit: Looking at your (DRH) myspace pics you are a bit bulkier than I am but I am more cut, especially in the chest and abs but also the arms to some extent. We actually look pretty similar even in the face. Sadly I also have somewhat fat looking cheeks, which is very annoying.

[Damaramu 0]

Dama is an overweight dude (no offense) trying to shape up and do various MMA stuff. Training like a body builder for that is retarded.

 

Hey I'm working on it! I have a spinach salad for lunch nearly everyday now and usually chicken and veggies for dinner.

 

Last summer I fit comfortably into a 3x shirt. Then over the winter it was a 2x that was a big snug.

The other day I went to try on a 2x and a friend remarked "That shirt is way too big for you" So I tried on an XL. And it was like a light shining from the heavens as I tried it on and it fit more perfect than any t-shirt ever.

I don't know if I can ever wear a large though b/c my shoulders are already broader than a barn.

[Guest wildpegasus]

My point is that "packing on muscle" is not an end in itself, especially if you are trying to do martial arts.

 

There is nothing wrong in wanting to look good, but not everyone has looking good (in the body builder way, which is highly subjective) as their primary goal.

 

Dama is an overweight dude (no offense) trying to shape up and do various MMA stuff. Training like a body builder for that is retarded.

 

You can sigh all you want. Adding mass for the sake of adding mass is purely aesthetic. For a martial artists it's pointless unless you are trying to move above your natural weight class or something like that.

 

Body building is all about looks, not about athleticism or endurance or strength. There is no athletic test involved, there is no athleticism on display. For all their muscles body builders don't actually have to lift anything or show any real strength to win, and in fact super-strong people usually looking nothing like body builders. Body building is judged based only on appearance. That's the way it works.

 

If you want to work out to look like a body-builder fine, that's your choice. There is nothing inherently wrong like that. But if your goal is something other than "look like a body builder" then training like a body builder is misguided.

 

Edit: Looking at your (DRH) myspace pics you are a bit bulkier than I am but I am more cut, especially in the chest and abs but also the arms to some extent. We actually look pretty similar even in the face. Sadly I also have somewhat fat looking cheeks, which is very annoying.

 

I feel sorry for you. You are misguided on almost everything.

 

P.S. -- Anyone who's ever picked up a weight in any shape or form is a bodybuilder.

Anyone who trains intensly over a short period of time is also a bodybuilder such as a sprinter or a gymnastic person.

There are tons of super strong people who like bodybuilders -- Look at Olympic lifters, Bruce Lee or Franco Colombu.

You can't gain mass without gaining strength.

If bodybuilders didn't have to lift anything than why are they lifting stuff? and trying to increase their poundages?

Why do I get sick at the squat rack all the time for than?

Bodybuilding has increased my ability to work hard physical labour all day, my wind and my endurance.

 

 

WP -- Still wondering how Frank Shamrock managed to beat Ortiz by outendurancing him in the ring DESPITE HAVING A SUPER BODYBUILDING PHYSIQUE. That means Ortiz who wasn't as built as Shamrock should've been able to outendurance him, outpower him and beat him singlehandidly before the 2 minute mark. I'm so, so confused.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Thats just bullshit puny little girls who aren't man enough to pack on muscle say to justify their lack of a decent build. Keep on keepin' on, scrawns.

 

I wonder if everyone here goes home and cries to Mommy at the sight of a bicep or quadricep forming on their body. Men are supposed to want to be strong and to look strong. It is 100% natural to do so

 

Do you guys like look at a physique like Sylvester Stallone has and honostly think it'd be disgusting to have a physique even half that built? Oh noooooooooo Mommy, I'm started to get a V Taper. Time to put a gun to my head. I mean, it's natural for girls not to want to have a V Taper, high strength levels or big muscles and that's terrific but if you're a guy why on earth would you not want to do so?

[CanadianChick 0]

Thats just bullshit puny little girls who aren't man enough to pack on muscle say to justify their lack of a decent build. Keep on keepin' on, scrawns.

 

I wonder if everyone here goes home and cries to Mommy at the sight of a bicep or quadricep forming on their body. Men are supposed to want to be strong and to look strong. It is 100% natural to do so

 

Do you guys like look at a physique like Sylvester Stallone has and honostly think it'd be disgusting to have a physique even half that built? Oh noooooooooo Mommy, I'm started to get a V Taper. Time to put a gun to my head. I mean, it's natural for girls not to want to have a V Taper or big muscles and that's terrific but if you're a guy why on earth would you not want to do so?

 

I agree with your sentiment, but you're coming off like a total douchebag. Work on that. Working out, to me, is a combo of attaining strength and looking good. There is nothing wrong with looking good.

 

For the record, I honestly can't stand the whole huge muscle body builder look on guys. Give me lean and cut anyday.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Thats just bullshit puny little girls who aren't man enough to pack on muscle say to justify their lack of a decent build. Keep on keepin' on, scrawns.

 

I wonder if everyone here goes home and cries to Mommy at the sight of a bicep or quadricep forming on their body. Men are supposed to want to be strong and to look strong. It is 100% natural to do so

 

Do you guys like look at a physique like Sylvester Stallone has and honostly think it'd be disgusting to have a physique even half that built? Oh noooooooooo Mommy, I'm started to get a V Taper. Time to put a gun to my head. I mean, it's natural for girls not to want to have a V Taper or big muscles and that's terrific but if you're a guy why on earth would you not want to do so?

 

I agree with your sentiment, but you're coming off like a total douchebag. Work on that. Working out, to me, is a combo of attaining strength and looking good. There is nothing wrong with looking good.

 

For the record, I honestly can't stand the whole huge muscle body builder look on guys. Give me lean and cut anyday.

 

Give me an example of lean and cut.

 

I'm sorry to anyone if I offended them.

 

 

Thhe huge bodybuilders people all see on TV are genetic freaks all pumped up with roids/growth hormone/insulin/diuretics whatever else who've taken things way over the limit. Because they're dieting themelves down to an extremely low fat percentage they look unhealthy and the package comes off as gross to many. It's not a good representive of what bodybuilding can do.

[randomguy 0]

WP is clearly a gimmick poster with a homo-erotic fixation with Rocky and a pre-pubecent cartoon boy, so I find it hard to take anything he says seriously. The guy is clearly either a troll or plain f*cked in the head.

 

I especially find his putting down of "girly men" amusing given that the guy is a total wuss who practically vomits if women even look at him.

 

---

 

Anyway I've said what I want to in this discussion. If you want to look huge and ripped do that, if you want to be good at kickboxing choose an appropriate program. (Hint: probably not the same program) Very few kickboxers look like Mr. Olympia, for a reason.

 

Give me lean and cut anyday.

 

I am trying to actually lose weight now for exactly that reason. I'd much rather be lean and cut than big personally.

 

 

Because they're dieting themelves down to an extremely low fat percentage they look unhealthy and the package comes off as gross to many. It's not a good representive of what bodybuilding can do.

 

You do realize that that *is* competitive bodybuilding right?

 

If by "bodybuilding" you mean "working out with weights" then I don't think we disagree all that much. I am talking specifically about excersizes that are mainly to look a certain way rather than being done mainly for real practical benefit.

 

You talk about having a v-shape or having quads or taking your picture with the right lighting conditions - those are aesthetic goals. A lot of great athletes do not have a v-shape at all. Having aesthetic goals is fine, but that's what they are. Looking like a V doesn't in itself make you athletic or strong or good at any particular physical activity.

 

Male gymnasts usually have a very pronounced V shape. Male basketball and football players? Not so much. I'm trying to concentrate more these days on actually *being* athletic rather than just looking like it.

[Guest wildpegasus]

WP is clearly a gimmick poster with a homo-erotic fixation with Rocky and a pre-pubecent cartoon boy, so I find it hard to take anything he says seriously. The guy is clearly either a troll or plain f*cked in the head.

 

I especially find his putting down of "girly men" amusing given that the guy is a total wuss who practically vomits if women even look at him.

 

I've trained for 17 years, different ways, exercises and techniques while at the same time working all sorts of different physical labour off and on. I've gone through a lot of variables. On top of that, I've read a million articles from various authors.

 

Yes, working out with weights = bodybuilding

 

I'm just upset because there's been some total misconceptions (including your last reply) in this thread. I could go on for hours but I think I'm going to vacate this thread which is what I was trying to do initially because I knew this would happen.

 

 

 

Damaramu -- one piece of advice is to make sure you don't forget about opposing body parts because that can lead to injury. Make sure to work your back and chest, quads and hamstrings, delts and rear delts etc. You might also want to work on your rotator cuffs since they can eventually become a weak link