TO: Eagles would be 7-0 with Favre as QB

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah, 80-yard bombers at the onset of a game, or 10 yard hitch-outs that T.O. turned into 80-yard TDs. Have YOU watched much football, buddy? I watch practically every single game on Sunday for at least the past decade or so, whether it's my team or not. And I'll say the same thing, and I know I'm not alone in this sentiment: MCNABB'S ARM STRENGTH SUCKS. Read the scouting report on him coming out of college. Watch last year's Super Bowl with passes routinely falling short of his receivers because when Donovan's forced to throw long passes on a regular basis. His arm wears out faster than any other quarterback I've seen play in the league.

 

Read back to any thread last year, I've been saying it even since then. Eagles receivers, particularly T.O., get a tremendous amount of YAC, and that's inflated Donovan's passing numbers. That's just the way their offense works. But great arm strength does not equal a great QB. Just ask Jeff Blake, or hell, even Michael Vick who has all the arm strength in the world but doesn't use it as much as he should. T.O. is right to call out on Donovan's arm strength, which is why a ridiculously pass-happy offense doesn't work well for the Eagles, as this year's proven. Why do you think his completion percentage sucked his whole career until Owens came into town? He lacks the zing to put the ball consistently to his receivers.

 

Maybe you haven't REALLY been watching "every single Eagles game" since he was drafted, because you'd have to be fucking blind not to notice his passes go all over the place once he gets past 20-25 attempts. Sometimes it doesn't even take that long.

 

EDIT: Wow, that was maybe a bit longer and harsher than expected. *sigh* I think I just extended this idiot thread's life another couple pages by accident.

[Fökai 0]

T.O. is right to call out on Donovan's arm strength, which is why a ridiculously pass-happy offense doesn't work well for the Eagles, as this year's proven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ding.

 

Owens should call for the firing of Andy Reid if they lose this week. It'll be glorious to watch.

[the pinjockey 0]

Actually, IMO, it isn't McNabb's arm strength that is the problem. He just has a problem throwing the deep ball. He can put it up, but rarely is the ball not 3-5 yards ahead of the receiver. He also has a problem putting touch on the ball for shorter passes. He had started to correct the problem over the last year before regressing a little lately, but before then everything was a laser.

 

And again, before judging what he was before Owens got to town, remeber who he used to throw to.

[Guest Vitamin X]

All I know, and that this was quite evident in the Super Bowl (although the whole vomiting thing may have played into him being sick and not being really at full-strength) is that when he has to laser balls to receivers, especially late in games, the passes seem to hit the dirt in front of his receivers.

 

And don't get me wrong, I don't think McNabb's a bad quarterback. He's definitely one of the better ones in the league, and he's a hell of a leader. But his arm doesn't immediately jump out at you, it's like Vick where he's a hell of a good runner as well (and he hasn't done a lot of that either recently, probably because of the hernia), but unlike Vick, has much better throwing instincts and vision. Vick's essentially a running back with a cannon for an arm, McNabb's has an average arm with legs and makes great decisions (which is an advantage he'd have over Favre, definitely).

 

And again, before judging what he was before Owens got to town, remeber who he used to throw to.

 

This is a good point, but he had a good tight end, a great receiving back (two of them really if you count Westbrook as well as Staley), and.. yeah, Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell. Most QBs have done more with less or equal, witness Eli Manning and how well he's doing with the Giants (and no Plaxico doesn't count as a great game-changing receiver). With David Patten's disappointing performance in Washington, it's stands to reason that Brady and the offense made his receivers better as well, not the other way around.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

He once had the arm strength to get most of those passes through ... now he only has the arm strength to get some through, but most are picked off or batted down.

 

Not really. This is the best season of his entire career in terms of completion percentage, his current season high is 65.4 in 2003. He's always thrown lots of interceptions. The most interceptions he's had in a year was 24, way back in 1993. He's never thrown for under 13 in a year with Green Bay. Back in the late 90s he was throwing for 20+ Ints a year. He's liable to hit that this year again, but other than this year, he's only thrown for 20+ once since 1999. He still throws for 30+ TDs more often than not. This is far from his worst season at the half-way point, that still belongs to either 1993 or 1999. The one part of his game that has fallen off as he's gotten older is that he no longer runs. He used to be good near 200+ yards and a couple of TDs rushing a year in his prime. Of course, when he was doing that he was also eating a lot more sacks too.

[the pinjockey 0]

I can see, if you use the gopher balls in the arm strength arguement, why you would say that he has a weak arm then. I just always attributed that to no touch and shitty accuraccy, but if you put it in the other column then I would not argue with you there.

[the pinjockey 0]

On his radio show, TO said that Dawkins confronted him about the comments, but when TO showed him the transcript and told him the comments were taken out of context Dawkins was cool with him ("Dawk's got my back.")

 

I pray to ever loving god that this is not the case. Where in his comments is it taken out of context that he calls the Eagles classless? He says Favre is considered a warrior, plays through injuries, knowledgable about the QB position, which would put them in a better situation. How is that not indirectly saying McNabb does not have those things since they are in the bad situation? If Dawkins is buying this shit, the team really is lost.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Why should TO be "Keyshawned"?

 

It's the media that gives TO the attention, and why he says stupid things like this.

 

I'm sure all his teammates just laugh at everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A good team laughs this off. A team with high expectations that is struggling gets very mad and resents the guy for mouthing off.

[Damaramu 0]

As an Eagles fan I'm fed up with this TO bullshit. They need to trade him and build some young recievers......and maybe a decent run game to. That could help ya know.

[the pinjockey 0]

They can't trade him since the deadline has passed. And they won't be able to trade him in the offseason, because everyone knows they are just going to cut him.

[Guest Vitamin X]

They could just cut him.

 

Imagine the ego damage!

 

And, this would be interesting, but the waiver wire rules would determine that of all the teams that put claims to him, the one with the worst record gets him. Green Bay's in a precarious position with the receiver position. So maybe T.O. can have Favre as QB. And watch as Brett whips his ass over some bullshit Owens would say later on.

 

If anything, it'd make watching the rest of the Packers' season interesting for me.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

What would they even get in return for TO, a 2nd round pick? Look what happened with Moss, the most talented receiver in the game went for a 1st round pick and a scrub linebacker. Philly would be lucky to unload him for a 1st, but that means they are stuck with no wide receivers yet again.

 

Edit: Pinjockey said what I was trying to say already.

[Guest]

I've already read through some doozies in this thread, so I'll address two of them.

 

Yep, he's getting Keyshawned very soon.

PLEASE. That only happens on a team that is going nowhere, and the Eagles definitely aren't in that situation yet. You'd think the Eagles were a 1 or 2 win team with what you guys are saying. They are going to be in the playoff hunt to the end, and no matter what TO says, they have to stick it out with him. He's by far their best reciever and probably their only deep threat. To say that he's getting Keyshawned is asinine.

 

As an Eagles fan I'm fed up with this TO bullshit. They need to trade him and build some young recievers......and maybe a decent run game to.

Despite the fact that you can't trade anyone after the deadline, no wide reciever in the NFL will ever be traded for more than a high first round pick. It could never happen. The problem with the run game isn't Westbrook, it's Andy Reid and the playcalling.

[Damaramu 0]

I wasn't saying that they should trade him this season.........they should see if they can ransom someone for a ton of draft picks or another decent wide reciever or maybe a pounding running back.

[Guest]

They could never trade him for more than 2 picks, and only one would maybe be a first rounder. He's not exactly young.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The problem with the run game isn't Westbrook, it's Andy Reid and the playcalling.

 

No, it's both. Westbrook isn't a pure running back, his talents are suited more for catching the ball. Reid is simply utilizing his best abilities, although he probably should be a TAD more balanced. I heard on ESPN the other day that Philadelphia this season have had a worse pass/run ratio than the Marino Dolphins, the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf, and the Elway Broncos pre-Davis (hey, there was that hyperbole Steve J. Rogers was talking about!). Green Bay has more of a reason to go pass-heavy with their playcalling, and even they try to get their 2-3 yards a carry their shittty o-line can push, but they point is, they do at least try to keep it at least a little balanced.

 

I won't argue with Reid's playcalling though, I have nothing but admiration and respect for the guy, probably the best coach in the league behind Bellychick.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

This is a good point, but he had a good tight end, a great receiving back (two of them really if you count Westbrook as well as Staley), and.. yeah, Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell. Most QBs have done more with less or equal, witness Eli Manning and how well he's doing with the Giants (and no Plaxico doesn't count as a great game-changing receiver). With David Patten's disappointing performance in Washington, it's stands to reason that Brady and the offense made his receivers better as well, not the other way around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Eli has a Top 5 runningback in Tiki Barber, whom is also a deadly recieving threat more so then Staley was. Burress and Toomer is better then any WR McNabb has had aside from of course T.O., and as good as Chad Lewis was, I don't think he's better then Jeremy Shockey.

 

I kind somewhat agree with you about Tom Brady, but I think he was good system, and had a great runningback Corey Dillion(Although his best days in my opinion was suck on a shitty team in Cincy), Deion Branch, and Troy Brown(Both whom espically Brown in his prime underrated WR) and always had very good Tight ends. But it's true, his offense support doesn't stick out.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

If Philly trades him they should get another WR in the prime of his career like a Chad Johnson, Hines Ward, Marvin Harrison, or even if T.O. wants to play with Farve ship him off for Javon Walker.

[Guest]

About Westbrook, here are carry totals for the games this year.

 

12 against Atlanta

15 against SF

13 against Oakland

9 against KC

6 against Dallas

10 against San Diego

13 against Denver

 

That's not very many carries at all. Now with his yards per carry in a season where he got a few more carries.

 

In 2004, the Eagles went to the Super Bowl, right? Brian played in 13 games, had 177 carries, 812 yards and rushed for 4.6 yards per carry. That isn't a big number of carries or yards, but that is a good number for yards per carry. This shows that when the Eagles do decide to run the ball, that Westbrook definitely is a viable option at RB.

[Guest]

If Philly trades him they should get another WR in the prime of his career like a Chad Johnson, Hines Ward, Marvin Harrison, or even if T.O. wants to play with Farve ship him off for Javon Walker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one will trade another WR for TO. Teams would like to have a tandem if possible, and I don't think that any of those guys or those organizations would trade for TO.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Plus TO is like 32. No one will give up a 26 year old WR for him, especially not an elite receiver like Chad Johnson or Javon Walker.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Plus TO is like 32.

Don't tell us, tell him

[Fökai 0]

The Niners are willing to offer a third-rounder for him.

[the pinjockey 0]

I heard on ESPN the other day that Philadelphia this season have had a worse pass/run ratio than the Marino Dolphins, the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf, and the Elway Broncos pre-Davis

 

The Eagles are far and away the pass happiest team of all time. Ray Didinger (HOF writer and works at NFL Films) looked into it and, IIRC, he could not recall any team approaching 70% pass:run ratio, while the Eagles are approaching 80%.

[therealworldschampion 0]

Did Andy hang out with Mike Martz or Steve Spurrier this offseason or something?

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

T.O. is just like 50 Cent: whenever his name starts to slip out of the media limelight, he invents a new beef to prop it back up. Also like 50, he seems to be more interested in showing off his muscles than actually doing his "job".

[Guest Vitamin X]

About Westbrook, here are carry totals for the games this year.

 

12 against Atlanta

15 against SF

13 against Oakland

9 against KC

6 against Dallas

10 against San Diego

13 against Denver

 

That's not very many carries at all.  Now with his yards per carry in a season where he got a few more carries.

 

In 2004, the Eagles went to the Super Bowl, right?  Brian played in 13 games, had 177 carries, 812 yards and rushed for 4.6 yards per carry.  That isn't a big number of carries or yards, but that is a good number for yards per carry.  This shows that when the Eagles do decide to run the ball, that Westbrook definitely is a viable option at RB.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I looked at the stats, and they looked alright, but even last year Westbrook was being used much the same way he is this year. I like to think of Brian Westbrook as the best damn third-down back in the league, because realistically speaking, he can't, down-for-down, run the ball consistently well. I'm going off of what I've seen, not necessarily the stats. Again, I trust Reid's judgment in how he feels Westbrook should be utilized, there's obviously a reason they don't trust Brian to run the ball more.

 

T.O. is just like 50 Cent: whenever his name starts to slip out of the media limelight, he invents a new beef to prop it back up. Also like 50, he seems to be more interested in showing off his muscles than actually doing his "job".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's wrong. Again, say what you will about T.O., but he still has a tremendous work ethic and does do his "job" exceptionally well, second to maybe only Randy Moss today. He's just, as shown below, something of a malcontent:

 

Man, how do I find these pictures of athletes. First the Kobe one, now this..

[iggymcfly 0]

Breaking news on ESPN:

 

The Eagles just suspended Terrell Owens indefinitely for the comments he made about McNabb.

 

This throws quite a wrench into things as it actually magnifies the conflict, and it does so at a point in the season where they're pretty much stuck with him for better or worse.

 

I think this might end up ruining the Eagles' whole season.

[Guest]

I'll eat my words. This makes them into a 8-8, 9-7 team that will be fighting for the last playoff spot.

[Slayer 0]

Man, how do I find these pictures of athletes.

The same way you found your av