The OAO RAW thread - 11/07/05

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

I was listening to Figure Four Daily and they brought up a good point about logic gaps in the heel ref match tonight (and almost all heel ref matches that have ever existed) They said that Masters had a bear hug on either Cena or HBK and that Davairi asked whether the guy wanted to submit. Why did he even ask him? Why didn't he just lie and say that he submitted? He's a heel ref. His whole intent and purpose is to help the heel team cheat and win. What better way to do that then lie about whether a face submitted in a submission hold? The one time this worked was when Bret Hart was in the sharpshooter at Survivor Series in 97 and Vince said "ring the fuckin bell". Worked like a charm.(and yes, I'm taking into account Vince wasn't the "official" referee, but he supercedes them because he's the fuckin owner) Note to wrestlers in the heel ref matches in the future. No submissions unless that is the finish. It's a huge logic gap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. This is a problem that I've wanted to discuss concerning heel refs or even heel authority figures. If the whole idea is to cheat to win, that opens up a huge slippery slope. Why not DQ the face as soon as the match starts by "seeing" a foreign object, or something else related. Why even try to be fair? Also, something that's bothered me (from a feud standpoint) with the vince vs. austin fued is why drag it out? Why didn't vince just strip the belt from austin. This applies to all authority figures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That would be anti-climatic. Things are dragged out to give the fans a pay-off at the end.

[Guest Fishyswa]

I don't see the problem with submissions, they want the guy to get hurt, he's likely to get hurt in a submission. It'd be better to have him pretend he didn't see a guy tap or hear him give up, but it's not the type of logic gap that's insulting.

[Guest *KNK*]

Looks like WWE did some damage control by reminding people that Kurt is the heel (I loved that promo he cut, very powerful stuff) although I wonder how long they can strech it with Cena, unless they do some tweaking with his character, this roadblock isn't going to last for long.

 

I was extremely pissed they did not give Rob Conway the IC title, I was totally expecting HHH to cost Flair the match and its fucking bullshit that God damn Carlito is on the RAW team and not Shelton!!!

 

Only Show that didnt include any sort of SS match is 1998...

 

2002

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jeff Hardy, Bubba Ray & Spike Dudley beat Rosey, Jamal, & Rico (14:22) in an "elimination tables" match.

 

 

-Close enough.

 

I just should've clarified that 1998 is the only show to not have an elimination tag match.

[Guest *KNK*]

Ok, I've watched all the way up to the main event tag, but I have some questions and I'd appreciate if someone can give me "logical" answers to.

 

 

When did Bischoff get the power to start making Smackdown matches? Aren't Bischoff and Long feuding? Why would Long agree to have a Raw guy wrestle his champion? This entire scenario makes no logical sense from a feud standpoint.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm assuming that Bischoff already requested that Smackdown take EDGE off his hands to teach him a lesson and Long, was still angry about Edge "invading" SD, that he liked the idea of Batista killing Edge.

 

 

All Long has to do is say "I just wanted to My champion kill Raw's boy". It's almost logical enough to work.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah, I just assumed Bischoff cleared it with Teddy offscreen. I doubt Long would mind having a cross promotion main event for his show this week, most likely with his guy maiming an injured Edge.

 

Smackdown has looked much better than Raw in this feud thus far. The main problem with the whole scenario is this: What difference does it make? It almost has to be booked even so that neither side is shown to be a jobber show. Almost reminds me of the NWO Hollywood vs. Wolfpac angle.

 

Having heard the rumor of Cena losing the title at WM to HHH I have to wonder....how is that a good idea? You're going to have your main face hold the title for a year and then have him lose it to a heel on the big show. That makes zero sense.

[hyperchord24 0]

Having heard the rumor of Cena losing the title at WM to HHH I have to wonder....how is that a good idea?  You're going to have your main face hold the title for a year and then have him lose it to a heel on the big show.  That makes zero sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The belt that cena wears around his waist is HHH's world title. It doesn't have to make sense, HHH just wants it back and that's all there is to it.

[Guest SavageRulz]

I was actually glad the WWE stopped the Cabana crap for Carlito and is trying to focus on his in ring performance.

 

But that's the worst possible thing they could do for him. Talking is his strong point. In the ring he's totally exposed.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No he isn't. He just hasn't had a chance to show what he could do in the ring because the WWE doesn't allow people with talent to show skills. If they can talk, then they continue to let them talk and the wrestling becomes secondary and that shouldn't be the case with Carlito. He was twice the wrestler in OVW than he is in the WWE but hasn't been given the time to show it at all because Stephanie has a hard on for people that can talk.

 

I mean look at Masters, should he be cutting promos? No, that's why he keeps getting a mouthpiece. Is he bad in the ring? Yes, but he has shown signs of improving, but he lacks completely with the mic. Give him the mic a couple more times and let him prove people wrong or get him a manager.

 

With Carlito the opposite is the case. He has strong mic skills and average wrestling skills, but the WWE continues to throw him in the Cabana to cover what he lacks in wrestling. If they did the same thing to the Rock, he would have been hosting Late Night with Duane instead of staring in action films.

 

If you haven't seen Carly Colon in OVW, get some tapes, I'm sure you will be shocked at his matches with some of the talent that is now wasting away on Heat and Velocity.

[Guest SavageRulz]

I was actually glad the WWE stopped the Cabana crap for Carlito and is trying to focus on his in ring performance.

 

But that's the worst possible thing they could do for him. Talking is his strong point. In the ring he's totally exposed.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No he isn't. He just hasn't had a chance to show what he could do in the ring because the WWE doesn't allow people with talent to show skills. If they can talk, then they continue to let them talk and the wrestling becomes secondary and that shouldn't be the case with Carlito. He was twice the wrestler in OVW than he is in the WWE but hasn't been given the time to show it at all because Stephanie has a hard on for people that can talk.

 

I mean look at Masters, should he be cutting promos? No, that's why he keeps getting a mouthpiece. Is he bad in the ring? Yes, but he has shown signs of improving, but he lacks completely with the mic. Give him the mic a couple more times and let him prove people wrong or get him a manager.

 

With Carlito the opposite is the case. He has strong mic skills and average wrestling skills, but the WWE continues to throw him in the Cabana to cover what he lacks in wrestling. If they did the same thing to the Rock, he would have been hosting Late Night with Duane instead of staring in action films.

 

If you haven't seen Carly Colon in OVW, get some tapes, I'm sure you will be shocked at his matches with some of the talent that is now wasting away on Heat and Velocity.

[Guest JMA]

Maybe Cena wouldn't be as exposed if he stayed out of matches on free TV. He could wrestle mostly on PPVs and house shows, like Hogan used to do. Then again, that type of thing probably wouldn't work today.

[cabbageboy 0]

I actually saw Carlito in person at an OVW taping and can safely say he was shitty there too. Same old boring headlocks and restholds, zero credible maneuvers, etc. Mark Magnus (Hassan) was also on that taping and made zero impression on me either. So of course they bring up both guys and push them.

 

Mind you, when I wondered about the HHH/Cena thing I'm not saying I even object to HHH beating him for the title. Lord knows Cena is stale as all shit. I mean we'll have a face (in theory) holding the title for a long time and then have the heel chase him down at WM. Personally I'd just have Cena drop it to Angle, use Angle as a transition guy to HHH at the RR, then have Cena chase the title at WM. The only big problem is that Cena's face heat is dwindling and I'm not sure fans would get behind him wholeheartedly.

[Guest Leelee]

Don't think while watching wrestling. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why should I give Vince what he wants, when he chooses not to give me what I want, ie a quality product?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, relax.

 

One can be so picky about nearly every type of match there is... like why do wrestlers hurry to enter the ring during the Royal Rumble, and why don't they just roll out under the bottom rope and hang out with the announcers until there's 1 guy left.

[Guest Fishyswa]

Or why don't wrestlers bring a gun to harcore matches, and just shoot there opponent in the leg? There's no rule against hurting a guy too much.

 

Better yet, why not just drive a car to the ring and run him over? And when a guy get's thrown to the ropes how come he doesn't just stop!?!?

 

Some questions don't need to be answered when it comes to fiction.

[CanadianChick 0]

When I was younger, I always wondered why in Royal Rumbles guys wouldn't just choke a guy until he went unconscious and then toss him out.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I've always wanted to see a heel just get into the match, and hug the bottom rope the entire time until it's down to the final four.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Cause while they were doing that somebody would run up and choke THEM.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"I've always wanted to see a heel just get into the match, and hug the bottom rope the entire time until it's down to the final four."

 

Didn't Road Dogg do something like this one year?

[razazteca 0]

I've always wanted to see a heel just get into the match, and hug the bottom rope the entire time until it's down to the final four.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didnt Larry Zybrisko do that to win the AWA title back in the 80's?

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

"I've always wanted to see a heel just get into the match, and hug the bottom rope the entire time until it's down to the final four."

 

Didn't Road Dogg do something like this one year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yea, I remember that...I think it was the '99 rumble...I THINK...

[Mecha Mummy 0]

I was actually glad the WWE stopped the Cabana crap for Carlito and is trying to focus on his in ring performance.

 

But that's the worst possible thing they could do for him. Talking is his strong point. In the ring he's totally exposed.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No he isn't. He just hasn't had a chance to show what he could do in the ring because the WWE doesn't allow people with talent to show skills. If they can talk, then they continue to let them talk and the wrestling becomes secondary and that shouldn't be the case with Carlito. He was twice the wrestler in OVW than he is in the WWE but hasn't been given the time to show it at all because Stephanie has a hard on for people that can talk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What about the 10+ minute matches he repeatedly had with Shelton Benjamin of all people that were STILL completely sub-par?

 

Yea, I remember that...I think it was the '99 rumble...I THINK...

 

It was the '00 Rumble and I cracked up at that one.

[Downhome 0]

I've always wanted a battle royal to end where it's just two guys in the ring, with one still waiting to come out, then right as the last guy is walking out to the ring, the two in the ring end up tossing each other out, and by the time #30 (or whatever the final number is in the match) makes it to the ring, he's already the winner once he steps through the ropes.

 

It might be too cheap for say, a Royal Rumble, but it would be cool to see on a TV show. Have the two guys in the ring be these huge favorites, and the last guy coming out a huge underdog that no one ever thought had a chance.

[Guest *KNK*]

I've always wanted a battle royal to end where it's just two guys in the ring, with one still waiting to come out, then right as the last guy is walking out to the ring, the two in the ring end up tossing each other out, and by the time #30 (or whatever the final number is in the match) makes it to the ring, he's already the winner once he steps through the ropes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That happened this weekend at a SHIMMER show where Jimmy Jacobs came out last and no one was left in the match.

[Guest *KNK*]

I also want a RR where no one gets eliminated and it basically becomes a 30 man battle royal from there. Just to see how the crowd would handle that.

 

I also want #1 and #2 to be blood enemies and they work all night tossing everyone out to keep the match to themselves.

[Downhome 0]

Wow, nice timing. I'll have to track that down, but I don't even know what SHIMMER is or who JJ is.

 

For a match like these, there are so many different things that people could come up with to happen during it, to end it, etc... but we usually just see the few ideas rehashed all the time.

 

It's sad really.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I also want a RR where no one gets eliminated and it basically becomes a 30 man battle royal from there.  Just to see how the crowd would handle that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't know how the crowd would handle it, but if you want to see what it'd look like to an extent, look at the WrestleMania 14 tag team battle royal.

 

There were 30 men involved there via 15 teams.

[Guest *KNK*]

Wow, nice timing. I'll have to track that down, but I don't even know what SHIMMER is or who JJ is.

 

For a match like these, there are so many different things that people could come up with to happen during it, to end it, etc... but we usually just see the few ideas rehashed all the time.

 

It's sad really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you not know who Jacobs is? Man, that makes me sad. SHIMMER is a all-female group that has actual good workers.

 

The opening match for their show last weekend was a all-male "come as you are" battle royal that was complete comedy. Everyone save for one guy didn't wear wrestling gear, comedy bits included Austin Aries walking out and zipping up his pants and walking to the ring promptly getting tossed out and rushing to back to finish his "job" and Claudio taking a nap in the corner with a pillow.