Vince McMahon Not Happy With Joey Styles

[Black Lushus 0]

but if we ignored you, Matt, who would we make fun of?

[Matt Young 0]

Wildpegasus, Carnival, DoCock, or Damaramu, most likely.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You went too far with the Gilmore Girls line. TOO FAR, DAMMIT.

[SuperJerk 0]

Have you ever heard Goldberg announce? There is very little the product itself has to do with the nuances and lil touches Goldberg puts in his commentary.

I assumed he was the guy who calls the UFC matches. You're saying he's a color commentator. Maybe I was listening to someone else. Regardless, I don't see the point of criticizing the play-by-play guy for calling play-by-play.

[Matt Young 0]

You went too far with the Gilmore Girls line. TOO FAR, DAMMIT.

 

I've actually never seen the show, but I have been enjoying Buffy after seeing a couple episodes this week. Somehow, I never watched the show before.

 

As for Goldberg, I believe he is the play by play guy, but I haven't seen enough UFC to know for sure, or to say if he's any good or not.

 

I personally don't mind Jim Ross, but I've been liking Styles a hell of a lot better, so I hope they don't remove him.

[Kizzo 0]

I think Joey Styles does better when he is working by himself or just one person....

[SuperJerk 0]

Have you ever heard Goldberg announce? There is very little the product itself has to do with the nuances and lil touches Goldberg puts in his commentary.

I assumed he was the guy who calls the UFC matches. You're saying he's a color commentator. Maybe I was listening to someone else. Regardless, I don't see the point of criticizing the play-by-play guy for calling play-by-play.

 

Okay...I've got UFC on right now. If Mike Goldberg's one of the guys calling what's on right now...I don't know. It sounds to me like two guys sitting on their couch talking about what they're seeing on TV. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I'm not horribly impressed by the announcing at all.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Well gee, your minutes worth of experience listening to Goldbergs commentary must give you much more insight into his abilities than my experience of listening to just about every fight he's called for the UFC. I never said that his commentary was mind-blowing or the best ever, it's just much better than Joey Styles'. My suggestion, and this goes for several people in this thread, make a list about what makes for a good lead announcer, because it seems a lot of people think it's just calling the right moves.

[Kizzo 0]

Well gee, your minutes worth of experience listening to Goldbergs commentary must give you much more insight into his abilities than my experience of listening to just about every fight he's called for the UFC. I never said that his commentary was mind-blowing or the best ever, it's just much better than Joey Styles'. My suggestion, and this goes for several people in this thread, make a list about what makes for a good lead announcer, because it seems a lot of people think it's just calling the right moves.

 

I agree...its not just about calling the right moves....

 

But to answer your question about what makes a good lead announcer.....well that's easy...just listen to any broadcast that had Gorilla Monsoon.......he knew the moves...sold the product(even if it sucked)...had the emotion....all features a lead WWE announcer needs....

 

Suprisingly enough......Michael Cole has some of those qualities now....I think his time with Paul Heyman really paid off....back in 02 and 03...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

There's also shilling, throwing to various segments, reacting to unforeseen events, finding a place for fluff and knowing when to get down to business, keeping the chatter going and avoiding dead air, and also doing research and throwing in some enhancement material.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Am I the only one who didn't think much of Monsoon?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Meltzer didn't like Monsoon either, and yall are fuckin crazy. Monsoon was tremendous. The crazy medical lingo, "the ______ one", and he managed to get over holds as simple as a sleeper by explaining how they work and what they're effects are. Meltzer said that Monsoon kept putting himself over and putting the wrestlers down, but I think that's a load of hooey. I think part of what helped my understanding of wrestling psychology as a kid was Gorillas commentary.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

For those that think Styles can't tell a story or shill the product, I urge you to check out any of the ECW PPVs from 2000. His interaction with Joel Gertner and with Don "Cyrus" Callis made the two pairs (either one) my favorite commentary team of all-time, and the emotion he showed when The Network tried to kill ECW (or anytime in 1998/1999 when he was calling a Dudley Boyz match) was just as good as when JR would scream "BAH GAWD" every five seconds. In fact, it was even better, because Joey is usually a calm PBP guy.

 

See, that's what makes the moments when Styles flips out better: they're spaced out. If he were to get emotionally involved into EVERY SINGLE MATCH, then they wouldn't stand out. But I specifically remember certain ECW moments when it was so obvious that he was tied up in the action and selling the story, such as, oh...the entire Heat Wave '98 show and his partnering with Douglas until the main event.

 

So say Styles does nothing but call the moves is to underrate him entirely. He calls the moves, he puts the WORKERS over, and when the time comes he shills the HELL out of the event and the story.

[Lei Tong 0]

...doing research...

 

"Bonnar trains in jiu jitsu under the LEGENDARY... *looks at cheat sheet*... CARLSON GRACIE!"

 

Goldberg sucks, but so do 99.9% of MMA anouncers.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Goldberg relative to most wrestling announcers is well above them. Goldberg brings up history and past bouts as well as personal information and other tidbits about the fighters, which is a helluvalot more than you see in wrestling. It's hard to find a good announcer, period, for anything and its a job with several subtle nuances that tend to get overlooked because of lil goofs like that or because of their cliched lines and delivery. Why people want someone with encyclopedic knowledge while overlooking and undervaluing the ability to, you know, do the job of a lead announcer is beyond me.

 

And you liked Jeff Osbourne for fucks sake!

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I'd take Joey Styles for pro wrestling and Stephen Quadros for MMA, myself. Heck, I'd love to hear Quadros and Bas calling pro wrestling, that'd be all kinds of fun

[SuperJerk 0]

Goldberg brings up history and past bouts as well as personal information and other tidbits about the fighters, which is a helluvalot more than you see in wrestling.

 

Nope. That doesn't describe Joey Styles or any other wrestling announcer at all.

 

Here's a whacky question: would Goldberg have been able to do all these magical things you claim he can with a product he has no knowledge of?

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Per Rudo's request:

WHAT MAKES A GOOD LEAD ANNOUNCER

• The knowledge of the names of the moves being performed.
• The ability to focus on the match in front of you and nothing else.
• The ability to, first and foremost, put over the talent in the ring.
• Gelling with the color commentator.
• Putting over the product as a whole.
• Quickly coming up with good excuses for botched spots/moves.
• Selling the story of the match.
• Selling the psychology of the match.
• Making it clear which end of the face/heel spectrum you are on (in most cases the lead announcer is meant to be a face).
• Explaining why each move is being done.
• Not putting yourself over at the expense of the talent (ie. not talking through promo's).
• Educating the fans listening at home about the product.

There's only a few things on this list I don't see Styles constantly doing, and that's incredibly forgiveable given the WWE product itself.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Nope. That doesn't describe Joey Styles or any other wrestling announcer at all. rolleyes.gif

 

Oh, so Joey has referenced matches from 1999 in his commentary in 2005? I can't recall him doing that. Joey has made comparisons of one match with another match and putting over both in the process?

 

Here's a whacky question: would Goldberg have been able to do all these magical things you claim he can with a product he has no knowledge of?

 

Goldberg would do research. He said that in an interview with The Law. He talked about how he announced for a beach volleyball game and before the gig he tried to learn everything he could about it, and he would have done the same for wrestling.

 

The ability to focus on the match in front of you and nothing else.

 

So if you have a jobber match on right now that really has no bearing on whatever PPV is coming up or any big match coming up in the show, the announcer should ignore all that big stuff and not bother to hype it up, or not continue to sell something that already happened in the show, and just keep his focus on the jobber match?

 

And how come you didn't list "Selling the PPV?" or "Selling the Big Match?" or "Selling the Impact of an Angle" or shilling in general?

[Kizzo 0]

I'm starting to think this is a bunch of BS...this whole report...

 

Why would the WWE sign him to a mulit year contract....if they didn't like the job he was doing....

[SuperJerk 0]

Nope. That doesn't describe Joey Styles or any other wrestling announcer at all. rolleyes.gif

 

Oh, so Joey has referenced matches from 1999 in his commentary in 2005? I can't recall him doing that. Joey has made comparisons of one match with another match and putting over both in the process?

 

That's a pretty poor counter-argument to limit it to just matches from 1999.

 

I don't know if he's referenced matches specifically from 1999, but he has referenced matches from years passed. I don't sit down and write down what year each match Styles or other announcers reference matches from.

 

 

Here's a whacky question: would Goldberg have been able to do all these magical things you claim he can with a product he has no knowledge of?

 

Goldberg would do research. He said that in an interview with The Law. He talked about how he announced for a beach volleyball game and before the gig he tried to learn everything he could about it, and he would have done the same for wrestling.

 

You've got to be kidding me.

[Si82 0]

Why would the WWE sign him to a mulit year contract....if they didn't like the job he was doing....

Because they were desperate for a new announcer after the Coach experiment went wrong? Or maybe it's becuase it's WWE and logic does not apply.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

My question is...why did they hire Joey Styles if they didn't want him to commentate like Joey Styles? They should've just brought back Jim Ross if that's the style they wanted.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

My question is...why did they hire Joey Styles if they didn't want him to commentate like Joey Styles? They should've just brought back Jim Ross if that's the style they wanted.

He was the only option they felt they had left. Ross isn't coming back unless something major happens. They think he's too old and was part of the reason ratings and business is down.

 

I'm starting to think this is a bunch of BS...this whole report...

 

Why would the WWE sign him to a mulit year contract....if they didn't like the job he was doing....

 

It's not BS. They signed him because they felt they had to and they feel they can either teach him how to do things their way or just let him go if he doesn't learn to do things their way.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

The ability to focus on the match in front of you and nothing else.

 

So if you have a jobber match on right now that really has no bearing on whatever PPV is coming up or any big match coming up in the show, the announcer should ignore all that big stuff and not bother to hype it up, or not continue to sell something that already happened in the show, and just keep his focus on the jobber match?

In my opinion? Yes. That was one of the biggest gripes I always had with Jim Ross: Val Venis could be wrestling Matt Hardy in the middle of the ring, the two of them having a decent little match, and he'd talk nonstop about HHH or The Rock or Steve Austin. It irritated me because it's basically telling the fans to not give two shits about anybody not in the main event, which is a bad thing to do when trying to get new people over. I don't care if it's a jobber exhibition match, the match should be put over as if it belongs on the show because somebody obviously booked it to be a part of the show and not a dark match. If a match, on paper, doesn't sound like it deserves to be televised, then put it on as a dark match. But if you plan ahead of time to put it on-air? Then you best believe that I feel the commentators should talk about that match.

Bringing up past events on the show during another match that has zero effect whatsoever on what's going on currently is bad announcing, IMO. Referencing to past events on the same show, or even events prior, to put over the current match is fine, but to ignore it is wrong. To put it into an analogy, it's like talking about an ex-girlfriend when you're with your current girlfriend: it shouldn't be done, and if it is to be done, it should be done VERY sparingly.

And how come you didn't list "Selling the PPV?" or "Selling the Big Match?" or "Selling the Impact of an Angle" or shilling in general?

Those would fall under the "putting over the product."

[Carnival 0]

Wildpegasus, Carnival, DoCock, or Damaramu, most likely.

Shut your cocksucker matt!

 

I'm offended I'm mentioned in the same breath as those posters!

Well DocOck is cool....

I don't have an opinion of WP....

But not Dama, damnit!

[Downhome 0]

PWInsider (audio) is reporting that as soon as Joey Styles walked through the gorilla position after calling the Rumble, Vince grabbed him and pulled him to the side and had a 15-20 minute "animated one-sided conversation" with him, once again bashing him and getting on to him about how he calls a wrestling show.

 

Kevin Dunn is the main guy behind Styles, but Vince just doesn't get his style at all and hates it.

 

I thought Styles did a great job with the Rumble, especially the Edge/Cena match, but like the guys on PWInsider said, he called it like a wrestling match, instead of focusing more on the sports entertainment aspect.

[snuffbox 0]

Joey Styles needs to disrespect Eddie Guerrero more.

[hyperchord24 0]

What's the gorilla position?

 

I also noticed that during all the non-wrestling segemnts and especially during Vinnie Mac's promos, Joey doesn't say a word.

 

When he first started, he used to call the initial lock-up and collar and elbow tie-up. I didn't know that's what it was before Joey called it. I don't hear him call those anymore.

[snuffbox 0]

What's the gorilla position?

 

The area right behind the curtain/entrance ramp. It is named for Gorilla Monsoon...who would be yelled at alot by Vince if he were announcing today.