Cooking With Wine

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'm a pretty decent "home cookin'" type cook. No gourmet, by any means, but I'm looking to add wine to my repertoire. I don't know thing one about vino, other than to avoid all the sulfite-laden "cooking wine" atrocities the grocery store keeps next to the vinegar.

 

I'm looking for some amateur sommelier on here to point me in the right direction for sauces, especially. Brian, I'm looking at you.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I know even less about cooking wines, but my girlfriend leaves bottles of them here sometimes. She typically uses them for pasta sauces and the like. Right now, I'm looking at a bottle of Ecco Domani Merlot delle Venezie. Nothing at all fancy (I think we got it at the grocery store for cheap), but I've never had any complaints with her food. I can ask her more if you want.

[MrRant 0]

Red wines work the best with pasta, beef and pork. I haven't dabbled much with white.

[Guest Brian]

Very simple, really. Deglazing is the best technique to start with for beginning chefs. Simply, brown something with protein (meat) in a pan (can't use non-stick) then use wine that matches it to scrape things to scrape out the fond. Don't use more than you need, so just enough to cover should work. After reducing to about half and making sure I get all the bits out, I usually flesh out with some stock and finish with butter and seasoning. The butter, au beurre, helps to thicken things out at the end (unsalted is always fresher) and help to add flavor.You can go without the stock and or the butter but the result is often rich.

 

I personally always like to build my stews with a base of red wine reduced with the fond scraped, resulting in jus. Brown meat, take out and set aside, brown vegetables in remaining oil, set aside and drain oil, add wine and deglaze, marinate meat and vegetable with the jus. Then everything goes back into pot, add enough stock to come up to about halfway to submerging the meat (this will always depend on what kind of cuts you use, as you want to recuce all the extra juice at the end of the cooking process). Simmer for hours on end. From what I've read about the science of it, one hour past the point of being done is kept at that temperature will melt away most of the connective tissue (ranging from two to three-and-a-half hours depending on size, but if you don’t bring it past a boil, you should be fine). The liquid should hover at about 185 or so degrees, at a nice simmer. Prolonged boiling will dry out meat, as wet heat can do that better than dry. The two following recipes the French prefer burgundy.

 

My favorite method for the above: boeuf bourguignon, which I’m sure is spelled wrong. I’ve seen about a half a dozen different ways of doing it, but the method is rather simple. Rather than oil, get a half pound slab of bacon and chop it into pieces, browning it for oil and saving the pieces for sauce. Then grab some stewing beef in 1-inch cubes (sirloin is okay, but the cheap stuff is fine), about 3 lbs., and season it with salt and pepper, then dredge it lightly in flour. Brown, set aside. Take some pearl onions (you can buy them fresh and boil and peal them, but frozen will save a ton of work if you just drain them) and brown those. A half lb. or so of mushrooms, crimini, get browned next. All the browned ingredients in a bowl, and the pot gets deglazed (most recipes call for as much as a bottle of wine followed by equal parts stock after jus is reduced, which to me is a lot to reduce at the end, as half of that can do the job fine but you’ll have to eye things and judge based on how much you need to cover the meat). Thrown in a tablespoon or two of tomato paste. Everything goes back in after the stock is added , along with a bouquet garni (generally a few sprigs of thyme and parsley with a bay leaf and peppercorns in cheesecloth), and bring to a boil then reduce to a simmer until the meat tears via fork.

 

Coq au vin is basically the same procedure with chicken and red wine, though without stock. Both recipes sometimes use a small amount of carrot, onion, celery and garlic during the browning, but other than garlic there isn’t a whole lot of a flavor. Chicken should take forty minutes of simmering.

 

Sauce with wine work good. Beurre blanc is excellent on seafood; at the Oceanaire they have a stuffed dover sole with crab, shrimp meat and fromage blanc (or some other young, soft, and not too strong cheese) and finish it with beurre blanc. 1/3 cup of white wine (champagne works well if you substitute lime), 1/3 cup water, and 3 shallot minced get reduced down by about a quarter at a boil, reduce heat to a simmer, a tbs. of heavy cream, and two sticks of softened butter is slowly stirred in on and off the heat. I’ve done the same way with a cup of wine and a quarter cup of lemon juice, but most people find it too sour (My mom and I love it, and I think it complements the sweetness of the seafood, especially lobster) and it needs more butter both to stabilize because of the acidity and thinness of using more liquid, and to flavor. Salt and (white) pepper at the end. There’s a whole line of master sauces that are based on wine; good stock and wine with some shallots and thyme reduced to a near syrup; if the wine is quality, the sauce makes a good stand alone, and I like to serve it with prime rib or stakes with some reduction of balsamic vinegar (if you’re balsamic is high quality and already pretty syrupy, you can skip the reduction) to cut through the richness of the sauce.

 

Onion and garlic chopped. Saute over medium low, then bring up to medium high. Add ground beef, salt and brown (1 lb.). Just a quarter cup of red wine and let reduce slightly. Add 1 14 oz. can of tomato sauce and one small can of tomato paste (no idea on size). Fill up tomato sauce can with water, then simmer meat (reducing heat to low) with lid on. Add parsley and finalize seasoning at end (if acidic, a little sugar, a nice pinch or two of red pepper flake adds body, a little parmesan can be grated in, thyme works well). Basically a ragu.

 

So aside from the sauce, the basic thing to do brown meats and then use the wine to lift off the flavor (fond). The “marinade” portion is not essential but I find the acidity cuts through the beef in stews, which is a reason why I sometimes add a splash of balsamic vinegar once it comes out of the browning. You can do pan sauces by reducing amount of wine, adding some shallot or garlic, parsley, and monte au beurre. You can reduce and build bases for stews. The method is very versatile, and as long as the meats are relatively matched, there are a ton of possibilities. I tend to use reds with beef. If I have a spicy red, I match it with chicken. White wine goes well with seafood (saute garlic and prawns, add a touch of win wine slight reduction, finish with parsley and butter, serve on a loaf of country bread) especially for sauce (see beurre blanc), veal and chicken (pound out a breast, layer with fresh sage and then prosciutto, flour then refrigerate to set up the prosciutto side, then brown prosciutto side first, once browned remove, and finish pan sauce with equal parts white wine and stock to lift fond and then a small amount of chopped sage, butter to thicken, salt and pepper). White wine does great with tomatoes (most tomato sauces call for it) because of the acidity and not too much of a body. Be weary because reds can sometimes over power the meat. I generally avoid using wine with pork, as I’ll just stick to sweet stuff. You can do most everything with other flavorful liquids, but wine just makes things so rich.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Marvins 9 Rules of Cooking with Wine

#1 Most important Rule: sadly this may not agree with your wallet: Don't cook with something you wouldnt actually drink straight up, which basically means stay the fuck away from the boxed stuff. Im not saying you can only cook with the $20+ a bottle stuff, but if it tastes bad out of the bottle, it probably isn't going to get any better by cooking it.

 

2nd and almost equally important rule: Do not cook with aluminum or cast iron when cooking with wine as the acids react with the metal.

 

The 3rd most important rule only applies if you have a gas stove. Never pour the wine in the pot/pan while its over the flame unless you want to try and burn your house down.

 

4th rule: contrary to popular belief, the alcohol never completely cooks off no matter how long you cook it. There can be as much as 5% of the alcohol left in a dish after 4 hours of cooking. Granted, it wont be much, but there will still be alcohol left.

 

5th rule: There is no such thing as a good cooking wine. See rule #1 for further clarification. If you want proof, try to drink the stuff straight. Lots of added salt. Blech. The stuff is cheap for a reason.

 

6th Rule: You can marinate foods in wine and get some of the same flavor as cooking in the wine. But you wont be able to drink it, so you might as well cook with it to get more flavor and not waste expensive wine.

 

7th rule: Red wine = red meat, some poultry and red sauces. Dry White wine = pork/seafood/some poultry and cream sauces Sweet White Wine = desserts

 

8th rule: dont bother trying to cook with Champagne (unless its going in a dessert). Its gets nasty when cooked and its more expensive than a bottle of white wine.

 

9th rule: Don't act like Julia Child and drink the piece of bottle of wine left over while you're cooking..

 

My favorite dish is Chicken Marsala. Pretty simple...Coat 4 chicken breasts with seasoned flour (add salt/pepper and whatever else you want to add) and cook them in a little bit of oil in a large pan until they are done. Then you remove them from the pan and deglaze it with 1/2 cup of marsala wine and 1/2 cup of chicken stock. When that is hot, add some lemon juice and 1/2 cup of sliced mushrooms (any kind). Let that cook until the mushrooms get soft and the sauce is slightly thickened (reduced), and then return the chicken to the pan and reheat the chicken for another 10 minutes. Serve by removing the chicken and ladling a bit of the sauce over it. Really simple dish that requires just a few ingredients, practically no time (under 1/2 hour) and tastes wonderful alongside some pasta and carrots..

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Awesome. Thanks guys.

 

7th rule: Red wine = red meat, some poultry and red sauces. Dry White wine = pork/seafood/some poultry and cream sauces Sweet White Wine = desserts

 

This right here is the primary thing I was looking for.

 

If cast iron and nonstick are no-go for deglazing, should I try to find some commercial stainless steel pan? The only thing I have close to that is an annihilated nonstick saucepan, as I do everything in nonstick and my trusty cast iron skillet I inherited.

 

I actually use a lot of bacon just for the fat, as opposed to tons of butter and other oils. I like the taste, and I don't have to season as much. Cuts down on extraneous salt, plus if it's good smoky bacon, it makes the meat taste nice.

 

So far I've just experimented with a $10 dollar bottle of white wine I got at the grocery store. I knew about the "Use wines you can drink" rule of thumb, so I gave a little to my girlfriend, and she didn't gag or make a face or say anything objectionable, so I tried it in beef stroganoff. Turned out pretty nice, even though it's red meat. I figured a white wine since it's a cream-sorta sauce.

 

Now what I need to know is this:

 

What wine is worth a damn and easy on the wallet?

[Guest Brian]

I like big strong red personally; Chile does fine and some of their good stuff usually falls under the radar in terms of pricing IIRC. California's picked up some quality in the last ten or so years, but the price has gone up as well. I think the new game is in Australian and that's the stuff that is how and getting priced highly. Some Italian wines are excellent, and alot of people don't think of Italy when it comes to wine, so those are usually in the moderate price range.

 

The problems with non-stick is that the fond doesn't stick around. Can you get your hands on a dutch oven? The best thing to do when searching for pans is to find people who are unloading their stuff: restaurants going out of business and garage sales, though the latter is a little iffy at times.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Right, but a lack of fond can only mean that all those little flavorful chunks are still on the meat, right?

 

Also, how bad would a wine sauce turn out that was prepared in a cast iron skillet?

[Guest Brian]

Iron oxide and the wine produce a nasty chemical reaction and metallic taste.

 

The thing is about fond is the fond gives you a rich, caramelized stuff. And you need that stuff as a base for your sauce. The drippings left over in the pan will nearly replace what the French call a glace de viande, which is something like a reduction of stock by four and also achieved at the end of each step in making stock [the only way to achieve glace de viande or demi glace (1/2 reduction) is with homemade stock, which makes pan sauces such a great tool].

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Great thread. I'm making a go at replacing too much take-out with cooking for myself more often over the next few months, and this stuff will be a big help.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Awesome. Thanks guys.

 

7th rule: Red wine = red meat, some poultry and red sauces. Dry White wine = pork/seafood/some poultry and cream sauces Sweet White Wine = desserts

 

This right here is the primary thing I was looking for.

 

If cast iron and nonstick are no-go for deglazing, should I try to find some commercial stainless steel pan? The only thing I have close to that is an annihilated nonstick saucepan, as I do everything in nonstick and my trusty cast iron skillet I inherited.

 

I actually use a lot of bacon just for the fat, as opposed to tons of butter and other oils. I like the taste, and I don't have to season as much. Cuts down on extraneous salt, plus if it's good smoky bacon, it makes the meat taste nice.

 

So far I've just experimented with a $10 dollar bottle of white wine I got at the grocery store. I knew about the "Use wines you can drink" rule of thumb, so I gave a little to my girlfriend, and she didn't gag or make a face or say anything objectionable, so I tried it in beef stroganoff. Turned out pretty nice, even though it's red meat. I figured a white wine since it's a cream-sorta sauce.

 

Now what I need to know is this:

 

What wine is worth a damn and easy on the wallet?

 

I was trying to figure out what you meant byannihilated but I figured that you meant warn out..

 

Anyway..Im not a really big wine drinker myself (and I like white wine more than red..) but I am always hearing about the wines coming out of Australia as being a good value.

[Guest Brian]

I think demand is changing the Australian market, though I'm not sure. Australia puts out good Chiraz (known as Syrah just about everywhere else) which I like more than Merlot personally, because I feel Merlot (and a good deal of domestic wines) are more boquet.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

How about using liquor?

 

I assume the process is generally the same, but what goes with what?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I can however make a wicked beer batter.

[Guest Brian]

Beer batter is good, brandy also does great with de-glazing (a bunch of French dishes use Brandy against really strong flavors), you can pull off a vodka sauce using the same basic techniques of deglazing chicken.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I assume the cooking time would be a little longer, or the heat a bit higher to burn off the higher alcohol content though, right?

[Guest Brian]

I think chemically, once the alcohol turns to vapor (simmer), it's done, but you can always flambeejust to make sure, but it'll change the sauce.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I made a dandy last night with some sauteed tilapia. Went great with noodles.

 

As simple as it gets, just a dry white, and a little butter.

[EricMM 0]

yeah what about the whole thing where they get the pan alight?

 

it looks awsome...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

That's just liquor and fire.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I can however make a wicked beer batter.

 

Mind giving out the secret?

[BruiserKC 0]

When making chicken Marsala I do use the actual Marsala wine as opposed to the cooking version.

 

I do use sometimes wine also when I marinate steaks. A cabarnet sauvignon works wonders...I got best results when I used a Kunde or Dry Creek Vineyard version. And both are usually available for $15-20 a bottle.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I can however make a wicked beer batter.

 

Mind giving out the secret?

 

Super easy. 1 egg, a can of beer, a cup of flour, paprika, salt, black pepper, and red pepper.

 

Mix your egg and beer, and add it gradually to your dry ingredients. The spices are to your taste. I like mine spicy, so just play with it. I rarely measure ingredients or follow recipes closely.

 

Dredge your fish in flour lightly, hit it in the batter, and fry it in hot oil.