This week in the NBA

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Isiah is being forced to try to get into the playoffs and build at the same time. Obviously it isn't working right now.

 

Look, when he first got here, he needed to get into the playoffs. The owner wanted him the playoffs. Obviously that wasn't working out either, so he traded for Curry, is keeping Frye (he could have traded him for Odom, Artest or Harrington or whatever if he wasn't rebuilding). He is rebuilding, just without the cap. Like I said, it's Francis replacing Crawford.

 

He inherited a playoff team that he quickly turned into the worst team in the NBA. It's been said before, all the Dolans care about is making that $1.7 million each night.

[Brett Favre 0]

But if they trade for veterans, the rookies won't get those minutes anymore. See the problem? The Knicks have to go one way or the other.

 

Getting Francis isn't going to take away minutes from anyone.

 

And the Dolan stuff, getting to the playoffs gets them more money. And Isiah didn't inherit a playoff team.

[Guest]

That's not the point i'm trying to make that. That future stuff is what you believe, but not every NBA team, and like I said 20+, don't have a "franchise" player, like you say the Knicks don't.

And those 20+ are the ones that struggle to make it to the playoffs every year and can't win a title. The only exception in the history of the league is Detroit. That's probably the only team ever to win a title without a Hall of Famer in the lineup, and I don't see that ending any time soon.

 

You don't think that getting Francis takes minutes away from Robinson?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

And trading for either Odom, Artest or Harrington would have done nothing for the team either. Odom puts it on cruise control when he's not the focus of the team. Harrington's contract is up at the end of the year. Artest probably would have murdered someone if he was put in that situation. There aren't any good trades out there for this team because they don't have tradeable pieces.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

But if they trade for veterans, the rookies won't get those minutes anymore. See the problem? The Knicks have to go one way or the other.

 

Getting Francis isn't going to take away minutes from anyone.

 

And the Dolan stuff, getting to the playoffs gets them more money. And Isiah didn't inherit a playoff team.

 

They made the playoffs the year that Isiah got there, didn't they?

[Brett Favre 0]

Only 7 teams have won the title the past 25 years. You have to crawl before you can walk. Just like the other teams, we'll be searching for that guy. And no, there isn't one pattern to follow, so don't say that you need cap space or this or that. You can be lucky like the Pistons too, who knows.

[Guest]

The Pistons traded for everyone's underpaid garbage that was tossed aside. That's the exact opposite of what the Knicks are doing. They're taking the overpaid garbage.

 

When I was talking about titles, I meant ever, not just the past 25 years. Hall of Famer's don't come out of nowhere, at least not recently.

[Brett Favre 0]

But if they trade for veterans, the rookies won't get those minutes anymore. See the problem? The Knicks have to go one way or the other.

 

Getting Francis isn't going to take away minutes from anyone.

 

And the Dolan stuff, getting to the playoffs gets them more money. And Isiah didn't inherit a playoff team.

 

They made the playoffs the year that Isiah got there, didn't they?

 

Because of the Marbury trade. They were close to last when he came.

 

The Odom, Harrington, and Artest stuff is nonsense. You're not telling me Artest isn't a star player? And Odom and Harrington aren't solid young SF/PFs? If he were really really trying to win now, don't tell me he wouldn't trade for them, because he would, as would any other team.

[naiwf 0]

Frye is still getting his minutes. Larry Brown is acting like a douchebag with David Lee; that's the only problem. Nate is still getting his minutes.

 

If Isiah wasn't serious about rebuilding, Nate, Lee, and Frye would be Pacers or Lakers by now.

 

Right, and the Knicks would have gotten back Artest or Odom, which is BETTER than having Marbury 2.0 aka Steve Francis.

 

The Knicks aren't giving up Robinson, Lee, or Frye in the proposed deal.

 

Francis will end up playing 35+ minutes a night. When Steph gets healthy, he too will play 35+ minutes a night. That leaves at most 25 minutes per night for the rest of the guards on the Knicks line up. If they're going to completely block Nate's minutes for the next three years, they have no need for him. With Jalen Rose clogging up minutes at the three and Lee and Frye not being able to play the center spot, how much better will those three get? The answer, is not much better, and of course when Isiah realizes this he'll end up trading at least Lee and Nate as packages with Taylor or Malik Rose to a team looking to dump a bad contract and a useless low 1st round draft pick.

 

At least with Artest you have a bonafide lockdown defender and a guy who can score 15-20 a night. Yes he's a fucking lunatic, but he's likely better now than Frye will ever be. Instead of making a smart trade and maximizing what they have, the Knicks will take an undersized combo guard making obscene money and shunt Nate to garbage time minutes before trading him in a year or two for Jalen Rose's replacement because God knows that a 20-25 pick and 18 million in returning contracts will be too enticing for Isiah to pass up.

[Brett Favre 0]

The Pistons traded for everyone's underpaid garbage that was tossed aside. That's the exact opposite of what the Knicks are doing. They're taking the overpaid garbage.

 

They got lucky. Without Boston getting involved in the 3 way, no way Sheed becomes a Piston. They sure as hell didn't expect Ben to be a star and neither did we. And the trade for Rip was basically trying to get rid of Stackhouse.

[Guest]

That's why I said that they are the exception to the rule. They didn't take any bad contracts to get in their position.

[Brett Favre 0]

Francis will end up playing 35+ minutes a night. When Steph gets healthy, he too will play 35+ minutes a night. That leaves at most 25 minutes per night for the rest of the guards on the Knicks line up. If they're going to completely block Nate's minutes for the next three years, they have no need for him. With Jalen Rose clogging up minutes at the three and Lee and Frye not being able to play the center spot, how much better will those three get? The answer, is not much better, and of course when Isiah realizes this he'll end up trading at least Lee and Nate as packages with Taylor or Malik Rose to a team looking to dump a bad contract and a useless low 1st round draft pick.

 

At least with Artest you have a bonafide lockdown defender and a guy who can score 15-20 a night. Yes he's a fucking lunatic, but he's likely better now than Frye will ever be. Instead of making a smart trade and maximizing what they have, the Knicks will take an undersized combo guard making obscene money and shunt Nate to garbage time minutes before trading him in a year or two for Jalen Rose's replacement because God knows that a 20-25 pick and 18 million in returning contracts will be too enticing for Isiah to pass up.

 

Francis will play as much as Crawford is playing now, so Nate won't lose minutes.

 

Frye and Lee aren't SFs, so Frye is still getting his, and like I said, Larry Brown doesn't like David Lee. Stephen A. Smith said it's a Larry Brown thing that i'm not going to explain right now.

 

The point isn't whether or not Artest would help the team, the point is that Isiah is sticking to the plan of keeping the younger players.

[Brett Favre 0]

That's why I said that they are the exception to the rule. They didn't take any bad contracts to get in their position.

 

The Pistons did it their way, the Spurs did it theirs, the Pacers are successful with theirs, maybe we'll be fortunate with our way.

[Guest]

Then Francis will get pissed off if he doesn't play 35 minutes a game. They'll be forced to give him more minutes.

 

The Pacers never won a title, and the Spurs had one bad year due to injury that set them up for years to come.

[Brett Favre 0]

Okay, so the Spurs got lucky. Like I said man, all Championship teams didn't different ways, so did all successful teams like the Pacers.

[Guest]

What is your measure of success? Is it getting to the Finals, getting to the playoffs, or winning a title?

 

I'm not satisfied with anything less than a Larry O'Brien Trophy, and New York shouldn't be either.

[Brett Favre 0]

Same here, my point is, there is no one way to get there.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

That's why I said that they are the exception to the rule. They didn't take any bad contracts to get in their position.

 

The Pistons did it their way, the Spurs did it theirs, the Pacers are successful with theirs, maybe we'll be fortunate with our way.

 

You will not be successful this way. Wait, what exactly is your way? Francis, Marbury, Curry, Rose and whatever else are not going to win you a championship. Channing Frye could turn into Tim F'n Duncan and this team wouldn't be good. You know why? They have no flexibility. They have no way of adding role players or specialty guys off the bench because Isiah is too busy spending $125 million on the world's shittiest Rotisserie team.

[Guest]

But there are ways not to get there, correct?

[Brett Favre 0]

You seem to think Nate and Lee are going to be great roleplayers, so there's two right there.

 

Like you guys said, we can't do shit to find franchise players with late round picks, so there are your role players right there.

 

And everyone gets the MLE in the NBA, so there's another one right there.

 

 

---

 

Either we'll get there or we won't. Same shit with every other team man, it's not like every other team in the NBA is doing everything correctly. As of right now only the Pistons and Spurs are because they've won the last two titles.

[naiwf 0]

Then Francis will get pissed off if he doesn't play 35 minutes a game. They'll be forced to give him more minutes.

 

The Pacers never won a title, and the Spurs had one bad year due to injury that set them up for years to come.

 

How do you know Stevie Francis would complain about something? [/sarcasm]

 

As has been stated numerous times, having a GOOD PLAN is paramount to success. Trading for 30something guys with bloated contracts that already play positions you have youngsters at is counterproductive. Draft picks don't matter when they aren't top 5 and can't see any time on the court because you have to play the guys making $8 million plus annually. The Knicks team of today is not any better than the team Isiah inherited and I can say that because in a weak ass Eastern conference we are 14-37 and on pace for the worst record in the history of the franchise. Oh yes, and our reward for this magnificent season is that the Bulls will probably end up with the # 1 overall pick because that's exactly what the worst case scenario would be. Period. End of story.

[Brett Favre 0]

If you like to observe things so narrow mindedly, than sure whatever. The Pistons were in the middle of the pack for a while, and they got lucky. If we were a team full of 35 years, I'd probably agree, but we're not, so I look forward to seeing Frye and Curry together. Francis ain't taking away their minutes.

[Guest]

You seem to think Nate and Lee are going to be great roleplayers, so there's two right there.

 

Like you guys said, we can't do shit to find franchise players with late round picks, so there are your role players right there.

 

And everyone gets the MLE in the NBA, so there's another one right there.

 

 

---

 

Either we'll get there or we won't. Same shit with every other team man, it's not like every other team in the NBA is doing everything correctly. As of right now only the Pistons and Spurs are because they've won the last two titles.

If the Knicks tank next year, I'll say that they're on their way to doing it correctly.

 

Do they have their 1st round pick then?

[Brett Favre 0]

They aren't tanking next year if they're getting Francis, and they will not if they have a record worse than Chicago's.

 

I'm exhausted.

 

BTW, the Darko deal is officially done if it wasn't already.

[naiwf 0]

You seem to think Nate and Lee are going to be great roleplayers, so there's two right there.

 

Like you guys said, we can't do shit to find franchise players with late round picks, so there are your role players right there.

 

And everyone gets the MLE in the NBA, so there's another one right there.

 

 

---

 

Either we'll get there or we won't. Same shit with every other team man, it's not like every other team in the NBA is doing everything correctly. As of right now only the Pistons and Spurs are because they've won the last two titles.

If the Knicks tank next year, I'll say that they're on their way to doing it correctly.

 

Do they have their 1st round pick then?

 

The funny thing is that the Knicks aren't trying to tank this year, and yet we still have the 2nd worst team in an NBA that has the Hawks, Bobcats and Raptors involved. Cena's Writer is starting to sound like a guy who would blame himself if his girlfriend cheated on him every night of the week. He wouldn't even be upset enough to say anything bad about her because he'd hold steadfastly to the belief that she can change. It's beyond me how anyone with a functional brain can say that a team paying out over $100 million dollars for a 14-37 record is on the right track.

[Guest]

Someone should make a Knicks thread. We keep clogging this one every week.

[Brett Favre 0]

I'm not happy about this year, but if the players eventually "get it" (Larry Brown stuff) by the end of the year, it'll be good for next year. We weren't going to win any titles this year, so getting the players to play together by the end of the year is a bigger goal. I guess i'm a glass half full guy.

[Guest]

The organization's already not happy with Brown for his ripping of players, so I don't even know if he'll be around next year.

 

I think that would be a good thing.

[Brett Favre 0]

Brown is a bit of a hypocrite. He was pissed that Marbury didn't tell him straight up that he won't play till after the All-Star break (Brown found out from other people), yet he keeps dissing players out in front of the media.

[Gert T 0]

Don't get me wrong, I think Carmelo, Bosh, Wade & Hinrich (sp?) will be better players than Darko, but I wonder where each of them would be at developmentally if they were on the Pistons. I think each would be further due to them having more experience and exposure before the draft.

 

Interesting stat on NBA.com, the Top 5 from the 2003 draft excluding Darko are all in the Top 15 in scoring.