The Ontario College Strike

[Red Baron 0]

Okay, maybe I'm in the small small minority here, but since this does affect me as an Ontario College student, all Ontario colleges are on strike because of a labour dispute (duh). With the Liberal government wanting to increase tution by 5% (roughly $150).

 

Anyways I had to vent on this, and will probably discuss about more random bumblings about this strike, that seems to be worthless in a way.

[2GOLD 0]

Okay, maybe I'm in the small small minority here, but since this does affect me as an Ontario College student, all Ontario colleges are on strike because of a labour dispute (duh). With the Liberal government wanting to increase tution by 5% (roughly $150).

 

Anyways I had to vent on this, and will probably discuss about more random bumblings about this strike, that seems to be worthless in a way.

 

We might need some more details. Got any links to some stories about it? I can't see people wanting to go on strike over 150 dollars. That seems rather, well stupid.

[Red Baron 0]

Two links:

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...60308/20060308/

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...60308/20060308/

[2GOLD 0]

The teachers only do six classes per week and they want a raise with no additional classes or workload? The hell?

I could understand if it was like six a day or something, but six classes a week?

 

I must really be missing something here. The increase in tutition doesn't sound too bad, between 100 and 200 dollars, but the rest of this still comes off as very stupid.

[Red Baron 0]

The problem is its not the Teachers per say, its the Teachers managament that want to do this. These people are being the real assholes that are delaying school, but also I'm thanking them so I can finish my report on the The damage of Lake Erie to the Ecosystem.

[SuperJerk 0]

I thought this was an article about college professors. College professors are not teachers.

[Red Baron 0]

I thought this was an article about college professors. College professors are not teachers.

 

Um, yes they are. Its completly different here than in the States.

[2GOLD 0]

The problem is its not the Teachers per say, its the Teachers managament that want to do this. These people are being the real assholes that are delaying school, but also I'm thanking them so I can finish my report on the The damage of Lake Erie to the Ecosystem.

 

Wow, tough report. Did you get assigned that or pick it for yourself?

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Phone call with my dad yesterday:

 

Me: "God damn unions. This is gonna fuck my buddy Scuba over"

 

Him: "Yeah, I don't have much pity for them. Took away our hockey last winter, it'll be a while before I can pity em. That's where you went to school, how much teaching actually took place?"

 

M: "Well, the co-ordinators of my program were there a lot, maybe 35-40 a week. But of the eight or ten teachers I had throught college, I'd say well more than half were there maybe 25 a week, if that. But two were there 40 a week

 

H: "That's what a person is SUPPOSED to work in a week!"

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I guess it is different in Canada. Professors aren't supposed to be teaching 40 hours a week in the U.S. Half your job is teaching and advising students; the other half is writing articles/books and publishing. Do Canadian professors not concern themselves with publishing/scholarship/etc.?

 

I ask because, really, the self-aggrandizing "gotta publish!" mentality is exactly why I'm not going for a Ph.D. here.

[SuperJerk 0]

I thought this was an article about college professors. College professors are not teachers.

 

Um, yes they are. Its completly different here than in the States.

 

Wait a second...you're saying that in Canada of all places, colleges hire teachers (people trained in learning psychology and lesson design) to teach their college classes instead of people with doctorates in their specific field (who basically just stand up and talk for an hour without any regard to whether they're making any sense or not)?

[Justice 0]

I really can't weep for you, because my own tutition (Being at a mini-Ivy private school) is going up around $2,000. Sorry. :-\

[CanadianChris 0]

There's a difference here between colleges and universities. Universities are what you'd normally think of as "college." Colleges teach mainly trades and diploma programs.

[Red Baron 0]

You do have teachers that are doctors and such. My law teacher is actually a Mayor. I have another teacher that is a tourism director in the Niagara Region.

 

Our colleges is completly different than the United States colleges. Colleges here are more of a hands on training instead of theordy. People come here to learn how to make wine, culinary/chef training, journalism, broadcasting, trave/tourism marketing, event planning, construction, auto, law/police/fireman/EMS, etc. You'd be surprised how many people apply to college after graduating from University, and also you'd be surprised how many jobs would take a college grad over a university grad.

[Red Baron 0]

The problem is its not the Teachers per say, its the Teachers managament that want to do this. These people are being the real assholes that are delaying school, but also I'm thanking them so I can finish my report on the The damage of Lake Erie to the Ecosystem.

 

Wow, tough report. Did you get assigned that or pick it for yourself?

 

Kinda both. I do live in the area where a nickel plant contaminated a good spot of the lake. Also I do have many articles about bringing in other species from other areas damaging the fishing business.

[SuperJerk 0]

You do have teachers that are doctors and such. My law teacher is actually a Mayor. I have another teacher that is a tourism director in the Niagara Region.

 

Our colleges is completly different than the United States colleges. Colleges here are more of a hands on training instead of theordy. People come here to learn how to make wine, culinary/chef training, journalism, broadcasting, trave/tourism marketing, event planning, construction, auto, law/police/fireman/EMS, etc. You'd be surprised how many people apply to college after graduating from University, and also you'd be surprised how many jobs would take a college grad over a university grad.

 

In the US, we call those community colleges.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Y2Jerk, you really seem to have it in for professors. I know you do secondary school teaching, but dag, yo.

[SuperJerk 0]

I hate the presumption that because you know enough about a subject to have a Ph.D. in it, that all you have to do is get up and talk for an hour and you've done your job. They don't understand that its not enough to simply give the material, but they also bear some responsibility to present it in a way that is conducive to learning. (To be fair, this is the problem a lot of high school teachers have.)

[I like Forums 0]

hey Red Baron do you go to Niagara College? If so I'm guessing Glendale Campus?

[2GOLD 0]

Well, the teachers union near me has officially pissed me and my family off.

 

About two years ago, our district approved two refs for two new high schools that rose our taxes to a near breaking level but not enough to cripple anyone. It took two or three tries just to approve it after some extreme comforts were removed from the budget (they wanted a giant swimming pool in the school, not gonna happen). It wasn't that anyone didn't WANT to give them the money, it was we couldn't come close to affording to give them the money they were asking. Well, this newest one they announced two weeks ago WILL do exactly what we all fought hard to avoid last time. They want a pay increase that'll cost us about .15 cents on every 100 dollars on the assessed value of your home. Needless to say, NO ONE in the county and barely anyone in the state can afford it except for the god damn teachers asking for the raise.

 

The max wage where we live is 14 dollars an hour, if you are one of the lucky few to nail down a job like that. Hell, I had one for about 11 dollars an hour and that's considered good money around here. Small state, most corporate jobs up state, tourist county blah blah. This is the third raise they have asked for, the residents agreed to the first one that simply put the teachers in a tax bracket way above everyone else in the county and was what nearly killed the district from getting the schools in the first place but that wasn't enough. Now they want to be the highest paid people in state to the point the district can't afford to pay them.

 

Look don't get me wrong, I think teachers do deserve money (some more than others, some of em deserve a pay cut for being lazy jerks). But if a district economy cannot afford to give it to them, you can't give it to them. We are a small district that has to support 7 schools (soon to be 9, with frickin AIR CONDITIONING which is going to drive up taxes even MORE in two years, something ELSE the teachers complained for) and they are asking for this insanity. The pay increase ref has pissed everyone off and has the teachers crying they don't make enough (which is bull in this case).

 

They make 50,000 a year in our district, a good 12,000 above the next highest wage. I'm starting to see why some people hate some teacher's unions. Some teachers are underpaid, but these freaks are over the line where we live. Driving up the taxes like this in the district is going to end up doing one thing, costing them a job from cost cutting measures when people start moving (which has already started to happen).

 

And for those asking, "Why won't the state increase their wages?". Fat chance. The state is already dealing with crazed increase demands from the upper counties.

[Red Baron 0]

hey Red Baron do you go to Niagara College? If so I'm guessing Glendale Campus?

 

Correct.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I hate the presumption that because you know enough about a subject to have a Ph.D. in it, that all you have to do is get up and talk for an hour and you've done your job. They don't understand that its not enough to simply give the material, but they also bear some responsibility to present it in a way that is conducive to learning. (To be fair, this is the problem a lot of high school teachers have.)

I've absorbed more knowledge from some of my professors than most of my teachers. Luck of the draw, I guess.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Damn 2Gold... teachers (elem & HS) would love to be in that kind of situation in my home county, which is the lowest paid county in the state of Maryland. The highest paid is somewhere on the west side of the bay I think (not Baltimore, though).

[SuperJerk 0]

I hate the presumption that because you know enough about a subject to have a Ph.D. in it, that all you have to do is get up and talk for an hour and you've done your job. They don't understand that its not enough to simply give the material, but they also bear some responsibility to present it in a way that is conducive to learning. (To be fair, this is the problem a lot of high school teachers have.)

I've absorbed more knowledge from some of my professors than most of my teachers. Luck of the draw, I guess.

Not everyone learns the same way. Some people can pick up everything they need from listening. Some people can pick it up from reading. Some people need to do something with the material.

 

Like I said, most professors really don't seem to care if anyone learns in their class or not, thus shifting the entire responsibility for learning away from the professor (the person getting paid to teach) to the student (the customer). When high school teachers do this, they're considered bad teachers and politicians run on platforms to "hold them accountable" in order to maske sure the students are learning. College professors are almost expected to do it this way.

[Red Baron 0]

God damn unions. Fuck 'em, seriously.

 

Insult trading to the Government getting in (which is basically fucking useless here in Ontario).

 

Each day it looks like that our semester is going to be cancelled.

[bob_barron 0]

I ran into some of the striking teachers outside a building at Ryerson. I really wanted to run them over with the thing I was using to deliver papers.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Your tricycle?

[Guest heyimbro]

So glad I graduated last year.

 

And even then, in my first year (2003-4), we were about 6 hours away from a strike as well. It's really sad; teachers, at least in my program, had it quite well pay-wise as well as the teacher to student ratio.

 

I tried arguing my point that teachers union abuses their abilties to screw up hundreds of thousands students years' to make a statement, but it's hard considering I'm usually arguing against the child of 2 teachers.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I hate the presumption that because you know enough about a subject to have a Ph.D. in it, that all you have to do is get up and talk for an hour and you've done your job. They don't understand that its not enough to simply give the material, but they also bear some responsibility to present it in a way that is conducive to learning. (To be fair, this is the problem a lot of high school teachers have.)

I've absorbed more knowledge from some of my professors than most of my teachers. Luck of the draw, I guess.

Not everyone learns the same way. Some people can pick up everything they need from listening. Some people can pick it up from reading. Some people need to do something with the material.

 

Like I said, most professors really don't seem to care if anyone learns in their class or not, thus shifting the entire responsibility for learning away from the professor (the person getting paid to teach) to the student (the customer). When high school teachers do this, they're considered bad teachers and politicians run on platforms to "hold them accountable" in order to maske sure the students are learning. College professors are almost expected to do it this way.

It certainly is weird the way it shifts like that. I think I've always learned best by some combo of listening, discussion, and reading. So if I pay attention to my lectures, discuss the material after class with him, and do further reading on my own time, I excel. When they bogged me down with worksheets and mandatory study guides (which I never understood the reasoning for) and all that piddling bullshit, my grades dropped because I didn't give a shit and I had to coast on essays, exams, and participation. This basically breaks down to great grades in English and social sciences and shitty math grades.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Both University and College have their pros and cons, which I can attest to cause I've been in both. I find they complement each other very well, at least they do in regards to my field of study. Where one lacks, the other fills in the gaps, and an increasing amount of students are taking both for that reason (going from graduating University to College for a year or two) It's been said before, but it's true, College is more practical and hands-on. The business admin cirriculum is heavily influenced by outside businesses so it can accurately reflect the reality and what is needed to participate in the work force. I'm sure the Universitys are like that too, but this is moreso, and it's a lot more up-to-date, imo.

 

College teachers have a much heavier workload, though, and get paid less for it. In college, for the most part, teachers have one-on-one interaction with the students and *gasp* even know their name. I gave one of my teachers a bunch of MMA tapes and CD's cause his nephew was into it, we also had a discussion about the early days of UFC with Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock. They also have to put up with a lot more shit, in terms of marking and also dealing with students, both in class and out. The workload in College is much heavier than in Universities. In University I hear people complain about writing 8-10 page essays when it College is was more about writing 25, 60, 100 pages. But that wasn't theory stuff, this was business plans, marketing plans, proposals, etc. You know, actual relevant stuff.

 

But then again, those teachers don't have to have the same amount of qualifications as a University Professor. I think I only had one teacher in College that had a PhD. Most were teaching what they were teaching because they had a background in it, which is also the case with profs. So I guess you get paid what you are worth.

 

In general, I think I've learned more in University, but I did more in College. University is more intensive when it comes to a learning/class ratio, as you rarely ever cover the same thing twice, whereas College is a bit slower. But while I never felt that I was learning something useless, a lot of the stuff I learned in Uni never felt useful. I still have a ways to go, but thus far, everything we are learning we aren't learning how to solve. It's more identifying problems, why the problems are happening, and the theory behind it, and less how to deal with the problems and solve them. College was more about solving the problem and the alternatives to choose from.