The OAO RAW Thread for March 20, 2006

[Guest Princess Leena]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype that distracts from matches which, amazingly, are supposed to be the core of any wrestling program.

 

The goal is entertaining people. While the kids here may like Shelton for his ringwork, there wasn't any reason for the common fan to give a shit about Shelton... especially since he's more noted for blowing spots now than anything. Plus, he's probably the worst speaker on the roster. I agree the ethnic stereotype may have not been the best way to go... however, it did make people care what Shelton was doing. And he dearly needs that, since he's not capable of consistently putting on performances like the HBK Raw match, or MITB.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype

Oh well. I really think if people are easily offended, wrestling probably isn't the best hobby for them. The character is funny. Is it making fun of the sterotypical doting black southern mother? Probably. But so what? Do you think someone is the crowd is going "Gee Fred, that's what them coloreds are really like! Lets Lynch them!" No. Everyone who gets the joke is smart enough to see it as a joke, no different than the bowing asians, white trash, hillbillies, and siesta having Latinos.

Wrestling has a bad enough image without backward stereotypes being portrayed and people just meekly accepting it because 'it's wrestling'.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Art, you're not crazy. Count me in as not feelin' Mama.

[Hawk 34 0]

Let's be honest, the fanbase that the WWE attracts and caters to, aren't the most sophisticated and educated. WWE, demands that it's not a carnival act and yet, they use low-brow comedy and try to pass these idiotic brainfarts as satire.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Let's be honest, the fanbase that the WWE attracts and caters to, aren't the most sophisticated and educated. WWE, demands that it's not a carnival act and yet, they use low-brow comedy and try to pass these idiotic brainfarts as satire.

While the first part is accurate, the sad thing is that to most people wrestling is whatever they see on Raw or Smackdown. What they see makes wrestling look like a complete joke, and I take issue with that.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Not everyone can or will want to go out of their way to find decent wrestling elsewhere.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype

Oh well. I really think if people are easily offended, wrestling probably isn't the best hobby for them. The character is funny. Is it making fun of the sterotypical doting black southern mother? Probably. But so what? Do you think someone is the crowd is going "Gee Fred, that's what them coloreds are really like! Lets Lynch them!" No. Everyone who gets the joke is smart enough to see it as a joke, no different than the bowing asians, white trash, hillbillies, and siesta having Latinos.

Wrestling has a bad enough image without backward stereotypes being portrayed and people just meekly accepting it because 'it's wrestling'.

How is that any different from any sitcom you watch in prime-time? Hell, The Mom on "Everyone hates Chris" is Shelton's Mama minus 200 pounds and 15 years. Stereotypes are in no way restricted to "low brow wrestling" Some of the most popular shows ever are fool of flaming gays, neurotic Jews, drunken Irishman, unintelligible Asians stuffy Englishman, cowardly, obnoxious French, urban blacks, lazy Latinos and guineas. Why should wrestling be held to a higher standard?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype

Oh well. I really think if people are easily offended, wrestling probably isn't the best hobby for them. The character is funny. Is it making fun of the sterotypical doting black southern mother? Probably. But so what? Do you think someone is the crowd is going "Gee Fred, that's what them coloreds are really like! Lets Lynch them!" No. Everyone who gets the joke is smart enough to see it as a joke, no different than the bowing asians, white trash, hillbillies, and siesta having Latinos.

Wrestling has a bad enough image without backward stereotypes being portrayed and people just meekly accepting it because 'it's wrestling'.

How is that any different from any sitcom you watch in prime-time? Hell, The Mom on "Everyone hates Chris" is Shelton's Mama minus 200 pounds and 15 years. Stereotypes are in no way restricted to "low brow wrestling" Some of the most popular shows ever are fool of flaming gays, neurotic Jews, drunken Irishman, unintelligible Asians stuffy Englishman, cowardly, obnoxious French, urban blacks, lazy Latinos and guineas. Why should wrestling be held to a higher standard?

So, your defense is "well, everyone else is doing it"?

[Hawk 34 0]

Not everyone can or will want to go out of their way to find decent wrestling elsewhere.

 

That's not the point, HTQ is trying to make. He is saying the character of MAMA Benjamin doesn't do anything but accentuate the negative image that comes with America's image of professional wrestling. Instead of being creative or innovative for a change, they rely on using whatever cheap stereotype or negative persona they can to further the joke that they are. Knowing full well, that they have a fanbase that eats it up.

 

Instead of using their national spotlight to do something different, they just present the image even more. Using the weak WWE apologetic excuse "everyone else does it" doesn't mean anything.

 

Everybody loves Chris is done with quality writers and actors, it's designed to push those stereotypes. CSI (WWE's favorite reference point) uses instances of necrophila and whatnot to artistically tell a story. WWE uses those stereotypes and issues as a cheap way of using circumstances in a un-creative way.

 

WWE, at it's best did this. It took characters slightly based off real stereotypes and was creative with it and found a quality niche. When things get desperate for Vince, he relies on the negative images that damage the perception of wrestling, in America. (Steroids, racism, bad acting and hick fans).

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I wasn't disagreeing with him. He mentioned the fact that some people think pro wrestling=what they see on Mondays and Fridays. I merely pointed out that not everyone wants/can get RoH tapes or even TNA. I agree with him 100% on this particular issue though.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype

Oh well. I really think if people are easily offended, wrestling probably isn't the best hobby for them. The character is funny. Is it making fun of the sterotypical doting black southern mother? Probably. But so what? Do you think someone is the crowd is going "Gee Fred, that's what them coloreds are really like! Lets Lynch them!" No. Everyone who gets the joke is smart enough to see it as a joke, no different than the bowing asians, white trash, hillbillies, and siesta having Latinos.

Wrestling has a bad enough image without backward stereotypes being portrayed and people just meekly accepting it because 'it's wrestling'.

How is that any different from any sitcom you watch in prime-time? Hell, The Mom on "Everyone hates Chris" is Shelton's Mama minus 200 pounds and 15 years. Stereotypes are in no way restricted to "low brow wrestling" Some of the most popular shows ever are fool of flaming gays, neurotic Jews, drunken Irishman, unintelligible Asians stuffy Englishman, cowardly, obnoxious French, urban blacks, lazy Latinos and guineas. Why should wrestling be held to a higher standard?

So, your defense is "well, everyone else is doing it"?

You said it gives wrestling a bad image. Why? Its no different than anything else on TV.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype

Oh well. I really think if people are easily offended, wrestling probably isn't the best hobby for them. The character is funny. Is it making fun of the sterotypical doting black southern mother? Probably. But so what? Do you think someone is the crowd is going "Gee Fred, that's what them coloreds are really like! Lets Lynch them!" No. Everyone who gets the joke is smart enough to see it as a joke, no different than the bowing asians, white trash, hillbillies, and siesta having Latinos.

Wrestling has a bad enough image without backward stereotypes being portrayed and people just meekly accepting it because 'it's wrestling'.

How is that any different from any sitcom you watch in prime-time? Hell, The Mom on "Everyone hates Chris" is Shelton's Mama minus 200 pounds and 15 years. Stereotypes are in no way restricted to "low brow wrestling" Some of the most popular shows ever are fool of flaming gays, neurotic Jews, drunken Irishman, unintelligible Asians stuffy Englishman, cowardly, obnoxious French, urban blacks, lazy Latinos and guineas. Why should wrestling be held to a higher standard?

So, your defense is "well, everyone else is doing it"?

You said it gives wrestling a bad image. Why? Its no different than anything else on TV.

It might be no different, but it doesn't make it less wrong. Yes, stereotypes are all over other shows, but guess what? It's still cheap heat and an easy out for writers who can't write anything but paint-by-numbers nonsense.

[chaosrage 0]

So what if Mama is a stereotype? Their biggest star of the last decade was also a stereotype. This is the first time they're managed to make me care about anything Shelton did outside of a wrestling match. It's the first time that his entrance gets a reaction from me other than boredom, and that is it makes me laugh. She's funny and manages to be one of the few parts on Raw that's consistantly entertaining.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

No, it's a terrible ethnic stereotype

Oh well. I really think if people are easily offended, wrestling probably isn't the best hobby for them. The character is funny. Is it making fun of the sterotypical doting black southern mother? Probably. But so what? Do you think someone is the crowd is going "Gee Fred, that's what them coloreds are really like! Lets Lynch them!" No. Everyone who gets the joke is smart enough to see it as a joke, no different than the bowing asians, white trash, hillbillies, and siesta having Latinos.

Wrestling has a bad enough image without backward stereotypes being portrayed and people just meekly accepting it because 'it's wrestling'.

How is that any different from any sitcom you watch in prime-time? Hell, The Mom on "Everyone hates Chris" is Shelton's Mama minus 200 pounds and 15 years. Stereotypes are in no way restricted to "low brow wrestling" Some of the most popular shows ever are fool of flaming gays, neurotic Jews, drunken Irishman, unintelligible Asians stuffy Englishman, cowardly, obnoxious French, urban blacks, lazy Latinos and guineas. Why should wrestling be held to a higher standard?

So, your defense is "well, everyone else is doing it"?

You said it gives wrestling a bad image. Why? Its no different than anything else on TV.

It might be no different, but it doesn't make it less wrong.

You implied that it hurts wrestling's image further. I wasn't debating the pros and cons of it with you, I was asking how it would be this big blow to wrestling if no one cares about it in the mainstream.

[pochorenella 0]

Ratings news from 411mania.com:

 

- RAW on Monday did a 4.3 rating off hours of 4.1 and 4.4. That is up from a 4.1 last week.

 

- Saturday Night's Main Event finished with a 3.1 rating off hours of 2.8 and 3.4. As reported, this rating was a huge disappointment as WWE was hoping for a rating around the 5.0 mark. RAW, which airs on cable, actually drew more viewers than SNME which aired on NBC.

 

- AM RAW did a 0.6.

 

I think last week's rating was actually a 4.2, but I may have to check that. Anyway, a slight rise on the next-to-last week before Mania.

[BruiserKC 0]

Stereotypes have been a part of wrestling, TV, movies...forever. The good (and bad) of characters are exaggerated to entertain us. Been that way since day one. I think it's funny how just a month or so ago everyone seemed to love Shelton's mama. And now the gimmick is crap because Vince crammed it down our throats (much like Eugene was presented a couple of years ago).

 

Speaking of Vince...it smells of desperation that Vince will step into the ring with Cena. This is obviously his last chance at trying to turn the boos to cheers, that Cena is the next incarnation of Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[Promoter 0]

Or it could be the first signs of another Mcmahon/Helmsley Era being repeated when Vince gets crushed by Cena and has his son in-law take the belt for the family at WrestleMania just like WM 16. All the HHH should get the belt back and Cena should lose rants all over the net by Cena haters better know what they are asking for with this one.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

What are the odds that the last shot we see @ Mania is HHH, Vince, Shane and Steph all in the ring together?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Okay, so I shouldn't be shaking my head at all when WWE declined using Shelton's real mother because she was well-spoken and educated. Allrighty then.

 

I really should have noticed who the two people were that thought Mama was an okay character and never responded.

[Guest Princess Leena]

Or, Shelton's mother is not an actress, never on TV before, etc... but, because some guy on the internet says that's the ONLY reason she wasn't accepted, it's TRUE!

[Art Sandusky 0]

The wrestlers and their managers are generally lacking in stage training of any kind. What's your point, that they shouldn't be on Raw and Smackdown each week?

 

And using the "just because some guy on the internet says it, it MUST be true!" sarcastic response only comes into play whenever people disagree with it.

[Downhome 0]

I can't believe people are actually saying that WWE should be more PC. If there weren't stereotypes in wrestling, how many characters would we actually have? Hell, over the entire history of wrestling, and all other forms of entertainment, how many characters would we have missed out on if there weren't stereotypes?

 

Would you rather Mama Benjamin be more like Clair Huxtable?

 

I don't have a problem with the character at all, I just don't think that she was needed at all, and I have never really seen the point in it.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Yeah, arguing the quality and nature of the character is completely missing the point in the first place: Why the fuck was it even created?

 

And about the "what would wrestling do without stereotypes" question, what do other forms of entertainment that don't languish 50 years behind the rest of society do? They, shock of shocks, actually put time and effort into the players in their drama/comedy/whatever. We always bitch about one-dimensional characters in wrestling and wish there was more depth to storylines and their participants, but for some reason this gets a pass?

[Downhome 0]

Out of all of the things that are worth complaining about having to do with WWE right now, Mama Benjamin should be down near the bottom of the list. I don't see what the big deal is at all.

[Hawk 34 0]

Out of all of the things that are worth complaining about having to do with WWE right now, Mama Benjamin should be down near the bottom of the list. I don't see what the big deal is at all.

 

Mama Benjamin, is just another example of what is actually wrong with the company.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Out of all of the things that are worth complaining about having to do with WWE right now, Mama Benjamin should be down near the bottom of the list. I don't see what the big deal is at all.

 

Mama Benjamin, is just another example of what is actually wrong with the company.

I wouldn't have a problem with the character if it wasn't such a stupid over-the-top stereotype. Would it have been that hard for them to have the character be someone just like his real mother, and simply act like an actual mother?

[Downhome 0]

I take it you hate Stone Cold Steve Austin also, right?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I take it you hate Stone Cold Steve Austin also, right?

No, but he could draw money. Mama Benjamin couldn't draw shit.

 

Not to mention that Steve Austin is pretty much the same person as Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[Downhome 0]

What exactly does all of that matter? The Stone Cold character is just about the most stereotypical character in wrestling history. The entire problem here is that Mama Benjamin is a stereotype, right?

 

Or are you saying that a stereotypical character is fine as long as it draws money?

 

Or how about a more recent character, like Finlay? He couldn't hardly be anymore of a stereotype, but most people here love the guy.

[Hawk 34 0]

The main problem with Mama, isn't that she is a negative stereotype but rather that she is a poorly writen character. That's the problem with the WWE, among alot of other things. The fact that a paint by numbers storyline between two girls is the best storyline that they have is considerably jarring.

 

Instead of using Mama as a chance to be innovative as well as creative or just decent, she plays up stereotypes for no reason other then the fact WWE can't find the time to do that anymore and would rather stick to conventionality and write Mama like she has been written.