Marvel's Civil War

[Scroby 0]

Does anyone else think Spider-Man's gonna switch sides soon? I can't believe that he of all people would go along with cloning.

He has

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Yeah, Iron Man goes on a Nazi rant in the Negative Zone and tells Peter he's sending him away to take care of stuff, but "as long as MJ and May are with ME, they'll be safe", pretty much saying "Screw you, I know you're gonna turn, go ahead and do it and you'll never see them again" without actually saying it. So Spidey secretly wakes up MJ & May and tries to escape IM's HQ, but he spears him through a wall at the end, and the fight will continue into the next issue.

 

I know I shit on Civil War after #4, but Cable/Deadpool was so far, my favorite Civil War issue, because it was INTELLIGENT and went right to the root of the problem of superhero police, and this week's ASM was really great too, as we got to see Reed's real reason for joining IM.

[SuperJerk 0]

Iron Man's characterization through all of this has been the most bizarre, with Reed Richards being a close second.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Yeah, they must be SPACE PHANTOMS, Marvel's answer to Crab People.

 

You know what would be cool? When Spidey goes to meet up with and join the anti-Registration side, they don't believe him and kick his ass.

[ZGangsta 0]

I know I shit on Civil War after #4, but Cable/Deadpool was so far, my favorite Civil War issue, because it was INTELLIGENT and went right to the root of the problem of superhero police, and this week's ASM was really great too, as we got to see Reed's real reason for joining IM.

At first I wasn't thrilled that Cable/Deadpool was going to be crossing over with Civil War but it's been really great.

 

So is Spiderman losing the Iron-suit now?

[Justice 0]

Ponch: You sound like Reed took them up there so he could do live animal testing on them.

 

In reality, they all agreed to go onboard (sneaking on after the Man cut their funding), and they thought they'd be fine.

 

And that's extreme in a completely different fashion. Taking a risk with willing participants that you yourself are participating in is different than cloning Gods and doing something you know is wrong (As evidenced by his little HUAC story) is something completely different. Cloning Thor, a close friend and ASGARDIAN FUCKING GOD seems slightly beyond that in terms of moral problems.

[Special K 0]

So is Spiderman losing the Iron-suit now?

 

They're apparently going to run a storyline called "back in black" after Civil War, where he goes back to a black suit. (presumably not the symbiote) ostensibly to help tie in to SM3

[ZGangsta 0]

So is Spiderman losing the Iron-suit now?

 

They're apparently going to run a storyline called "back in black" after Civil War, where he goes back to a black suit. (presumably not the symbiote) ostensibly to help tie in to SM3

Saw an interview with Quesada where he claims that it absolutely has nothing to do whatsoever with a movie tie in. If you believe him...

[SuperJerk 0]

Is Cable really joining Iron Man's team?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

The "Jack O'Lantern" character that is being used with the other villains to track Cap's team down...is a girl. Did not know that. And Venom is The Scorpion? Ok.

[teke184 0]

The "Jack O'Lantern" character that is being used with the other villains to track Cap's team down...is a girl. Did not know that. And Venom is The Scorpion? Ok.

 

AFAIK, the deal with Venom is that Eddie Brock had cancer and died from it. (The cancer stimulated adrenal glands or something, which is why the symbiote didn't burn out his body when it bonded with him.)

 

Scorpion ended up with the symbiote as part of some huge plot involving a Sinister Twelve or somesuch.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

So I read. Marvel Knights storyline. Not to go off-topic, but could someone tell me if the story was any good?

 

The ending with Norman Vs. Peter atop a bridge with MJ's life in the balance, and a brainwashed Doc Ock attacking Norman, helping the police, sounds a little convoluted.

 

But SINISTER TWELVE? That's kinda neat. Except for, you know, Boomerang.

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

The "Jack O'Lantern" character that is being used with the other villains to track Cap's team down...is a girl. Did not know that. And Venom is The Scorpion? Ok.

 

AFAIK, the deal with Venom is that Eddie Brock had cancer and died from it. (The cancer stimulated adrenal glands or something, which is why the symbiote didn't burn out his body when it bonded with him.)

 

Scorpion ended up with the symbiote as part of some huge plot involving a Sinister Twelve or somesuch.

 

Eddie didn't die from the cancer after he sold the suit to a mobster Eddie gave the money to a good cause to make up for all the bad things he's done and then he tried to kill himself by sliting his wrists but, he survived and is in the hospital.

 

And as for the suit the mobster gave it to his weak son to make him a man. After the kid got the suit he crashed Peter's high school reunion and Spider-Man beat the kid so bad that when the new Venom was in mid jump the suit said he was weak and left him in mid air and then the kid fell to his death.

 

But, with Spider-Man 3 coming out you can bet they'll have Eddie become Venom again.

[pochorenella 0]

So I read. Marvel Knights storyline. Not to go off-topic, but could someone tell me if the story was any good?

 

The ending with Norman Vs. Peter atop a bridge with MJ's life in the balance, and a brainwashed Doc Ock attacking Norman, helping the police, sounds a little convoluted.

 

But SINISTER TWELVE? That's kinda neat. Except for, you know, Boomerang.

It was merely ok, IMO. They tried to somewhat ground Peter/Spidey more into reality as he faced more difficult decisions when his enemies resorted to more extreme behaviors. IIRC Eddie Brock didn't die from the cancer, rather he slit his wrists and they said he "probably wouldn't last the night." If he did indeed survive after that I have no idea so if anyone knows please post it here. The symbiote then bonded to Gargan/Scorpion with no other explanation that he wanted to be a big-time villain.

 

Ponch: You sound like Reed took them up there so he could do live animal testing on them

Sorry if it came out that way. Of course Reed didn't put a gun to their heads and forced them to go, but the fact remains that he somewhat knew what would happen to them and he didn't tell them (I believe this was a storyline years ago), so basically they were guinea pigs to him. That, my friend, is disturbing behavior. Then again, he's a scientist, so he probably feels it's within his rights in the name of science.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

You know, I'm all in favor of a "Maximum Carnage" 90's style throwdown with Cloak, Dagger, Cap, and Spidey Vs. Venom & friends in CW #5. Idiot Spider-Man will probably wear the metal spidey suit (filled with tracers) to Cap's hideout, BAM, pumpkin bombs galore.

[teke184 0]

Ponch: You sound like Reed took them up there so he could do live animal testing on them

Sorry if it came out that way. Of course Reed didn't put a gun to their heads and forced them to go, but the fact remains that he somewhat knew what would happen to them and he didn't tell them (I believe this was a storyline years ago), so basically they were guinea pigs to him. That, my friend, is disturbing behavior. Then again, he's a scientist, so he probably feels it's within his rights in the name of science.

 

That storyline was in the Fantastic Four / X-Men crossover after Mutant Massacre.

 

 

Apparently, Dr. Doom created a fake journal in which Reed had supposedly mused about the possibilities of the radiation on them.

 

Only Franklin's premonitions about the journal kept it from being taken completely at face-value and, by the end of the storyline, was revealed to be a fake.

[JasonX 0]

The "Jack O'Lantern" character that is being used with the other villains to track Cap's team down...is a girl. Did not know that. And Venom is The Scorpion? Ok.

 

Nope; Bendis, in one of his regular "taking a shit on continuity" moments of assholeness, declared in Secret Wars IV that the female Jack O'Lantern (McGuire Beck, Mysterio's female cousin) was the original Jack O'Lantern Jason Macendale in drag, as well as declaring that every single Jack O'Lantern to pop up since Macendale became Hobgoblin was Macendale all along.

 

And Eddie Brock is still alive, though no longer Venom; JMS resurrected him and upgraded his condition to comatose around the start of Civil War.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I'd bet the house with the upcoming "Back in Black" storyline, Spidey 3, and the return of the black costume to the comics that his ass wakes up in a few months.

[JasonX 0]

OK, since we've got a long wait until the next issue comes out, let's take some time to look at the scenerios for what will most likely happen:

 

Peter and Tony will fight and Tony will win round one, since we've not seen any visible clue that Peter has taken the time to purge his new Iron Spider Suit of any failsafes Tony might have put into the suit in order to neutralize Peter in the event Peter would turn against Spidey. Spidey is forced to flee as May and MJ are arrested and tortured to the point of extreme physical pain by Iron Man in order to A. Punish Spider-Man for defying him B. To find out where he's going. He also lets the villains hired to hunt down the Anti-Reg heroes know he's going to torture innocent civilians May and Mary-Jane so they can use that to bait Peter in battle.

 

The villains hunt down Peter, who hasn't reached Cap's HQ yet and in the battle that ensues, Peter learns that Tony is going all George W Bush and torturing May and Mary-Jane for shits and giggles; Peter snaps and a major fucking event happens: The Venom Symbiote Costume abandons Scorpion and merges back with Peter, with Peter willingly accepting the black costume so he can use it's powers to destroy Iron Man. But he's surrounded and only saved by Captain America, who has learned about Tony joining the "Torture Is Always Justified" club and offers a deal: he'll turn himself in for imprisonment if Tony will let MJ and May go scott free. Tony agrees but then renegs and Peter is forced by Cap to flee as the villains KO Cap and take him away.

 

Cap is taken into the concentration camp but stages a massive prison-break using the master key Zemo gave him in T-Bolts. Meanwhile Peter, who's now strong enough to beat Thor now that he's got the black costume again, gets the rest of the Anti-Reg heroes to lay siege on Stark's home and we get a rematch between Tony and Peter; Tony uses sonics against Peter and it looks like it works, but BAM!!!!!!!! Peter was faking! The Symbiote no longer is vulnerable to sound due to the rebonding and Peter basically beats Iron Man nearly to death before MJ and May show up (having been freed) and convince Peter to not kill Tony on the grounds that he's not worth being murdered.

[ZGangsta 0]

I like that idea of Parker being put in such a desparate spot that he has to take the symbiote back.

[Justice 0]

Jason X: I hope to God, and all that is Holy, that you are wrong. Iron Man torturing May and MJ when it's almost impossible for them to have any clue where Peter is going would go even beyond the dubious morals that "Bizzaro Tony" has already shown.

 

Ponch: As noted by Teke, that wasn't Reed. Reed's a geek... but he's a good man who cares about the people around him. If he thought they were guinea pigs, would he really have labored as hard as he did to try and turn Ben back to normal?

 

Cloning Thor, creating a prison in the Negative Zone for the express purpose of denying people fair rights (People, by the way, he's probably fought side-by-side with for years), among other things. I know Reed can get lost in science... but he's not an extremist, nor is he a person to deny common sense (Which is basically what he's doing with the mention of the HUAC and his uncle) to the point of which he loses his entire family (Ben is gone, as are Sue and Johnny).

 

Millar really puzzles me. He's able to make Ultimate SHIELD a believably amoral organization with questionable goals and tactics, but can't get away from a completely black and white picture here? *shakes head*

 

On another note, did anyone else think that the whole "Speedball getting Jack Ruby-ed" was a horrible, horrible historical reference?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Mary Jane's gonna be accidently killed, this is my prediction for CW's long-time ramifications on Spidey.

[JasonX 0]

Mary Jane's gonna be accidently killed, this is my prediction for CW's long-time ramifications on Spidey.

 

If MJ dies, it will be a two-three page death with the entire contents of the Civil War X-Over IMMEADIATELY undone via a reality altering deux de machina literally negating the entire fucking X-Over, resurrecting MJ and reducing the entire storyline to nothingness via the reset button being pushed.

 

MJ won't die because she's the one sacred cow that if fucked up, the nerd masses will revolt and drive Quesada, Millar, and Bendis from power and kill them. There is a reason WHY JQ gave up on trying to get rid of the Spider-Marriage and why Kevin Smith balked at getting his own Spider-Man ongoing, when he was told that the price for doing so would be Smith having to divorce MJ and Peter, since the MJ/Peter shippers would destroy beyond repair Smith's ultimate nerdboy persona.

 

Speaking of which; two theories are floating around about a possible big bad for the series:

 

1. Doctor Doom is the big bad; he's kidnapped and is impersonating Tony and orchestrating the whole Civil War to decimate the super-hero community and make Reed his bitch.

 

2. It's Mandarin; he's using his knowledge of how the Communists took over China to plan out Civil War to the letter and is using his mind-control ring to manipulate Tony, Reed, Hank Pym, and the others into carrying out his evil schemes.

[ZGangsta 0]

I think it would be a gigantic cop out to have some big evil villian end up being behind this whole thing, manipulating Stark and such. However, I think that's the only way this can be heading, due to the characterization of Stark and Richards so far.

 

And what's this 'Fifty-states initiative' that was brought up in issue 4 and Cable's been warning against in Cable and Deadpool

[JasonX 0]

I think it would be a gigantic cop out to have some big evil villian end up being behind this whole thing, manipulating Stark and such. However, I think that's the only way this can be heading, due to the characterization of Stark and Richards so far.

 

And what's this 'Fifty-states initiative' that was brought up in issue 4 and Cable's been warning against in Cable and Deadpool

 

The running rumor is that the "50 State Initiative" is that they are going to put groups of registered heroes in each state to protect each state individually....

[Justice 0]

Jason: So basically Millar is planning on saying "It was Crab People!" the entire time?

 

God damn you, Marvel.

[JasonX 0]

Jason: So basically Millar is planning on saying "It was Crab People!" the entire time?

 

God damn you, Marvel.

 

With the Iron Man movie coming up soon, better to do "The Crab People Did It!" in the final issue of Civil War than drag out the Crab People Reveal and fuck it up via half-assing and bullshitting like they did with Magneto/Xorn.

[Scroby 0]

The "Jack O'Lantern" character that is being used with the other villains to track Cap's team down...is a girl. Did not know that. And Venom is The Scorpion? Ok.

 

Nope; Bendis, in one of his regular "taking a shit on continuity" moments of assholeness, declared in Secret Wars IV that the female Jack O'Lantern (McGuire Beck, Mysterio's female cousin) was the original Jack O'Lantern Jason Macendale in drag, as well as declaring that every single Jack O'Lantern to pop up since Macendale became Hobgoblin was Macendale all along.

 

And Eddie Brock is still alive, though no longer Venom; JMS resurrected him and upgraded his condition to comatose around the start of Civil War.

I am so fucking confused by all this.

 

There was a 4th secret wars?

[JasonX 0]

The "Jack O'Lantern" character that is being used with the other villains to track Cap's team down...is a girl. Did not know that. And Venom is The Scorpion? Ok.

 

Nope; Bendis, in one of his regular "taking a shit on continuity" moments of assholeness, declared in Secret Wars IV that the female Jack O'Lantern (McGuire Beck, Mysterio's female cousin) was the original Jack O'Lantern Jason Macendale in drag, as well as declaring that every single Jack O'Lantern to pop up since Macendale became Hobgoblin was Macendale all along.

 

And Eddie Brock is still alive, though no longer Venom; JMS resurrected him and upgraded his condition to comatose around the start of Civil War.

I am so fucking confused by all this.

 

There was a 4th secret wars?

 

Yep, but it was ultra-fucking late coming out and really really shitty, especially given the bullshit retcons Bendis rammed down everyone's throats.....

 

Also, the plot had zero to do with the Beyonder; it involved a really shitty attempt to retcon Doctor Doom as being responsible for creating 99% of all of the super-villains of the Marvel Universe and served mainly to set up Nick Fury being forced into hiding while the Right-Wing Neocons take over SHIELD......

[Justice 0]

The simplest solution to this would have been "Not make Tony evil", but I agree with what you are saying. And don't shoot the messanger, yeah.

 

Anyways, I found this and I thought it summed up quite nicely my disagreements with Civil War at the moment:

 

"Thor didn't speak in German! He hated Germany!"