What do you do with Kurt Angle?

[The Niggardly King 0]

I'd build towards Angle/Sabu.

[iggymcfly 0]

I think you could brew a feud between RVD and Angle with their conflicting wrestling styles. Since the ECW fans are already all over RVD's nuts you can basically be the ECW Champ for awhile, as Kurt Angle is going through the ECW roster one by one, not necessarily squashes, but he wins his matches. So this goes on well into 2007, RVD is getting the glory, while Kurt Angle is quietly ripping through the roster.

 

You build RVD and Angle as the #1 and #2 faces of the company. Then comes a Tag Team match RVD teaming up with Angle against whoever the big heels are at the time. The match is going on, with the heels getting the upper hand, RVD is positioned to get the Hot tag, The crowd is chanting for RVD....however.....Kurt Angle refuses to tag out, instead taking more punishment while trying to turn the match around himself. Eventually the heel executes a move into the corner of RVD, and RVD slaps Angles shoulder to tag himself in and take the match upon himself. From here, you can either have RVD win the match from the hot tag OR you can do the classic angle where RVD gets to the point where he needs to tag out and Angle abandons him. That weeks episode ends.....

 

The next week Styles is in the ring, demanding an explanation from Angle, he comes out and talks about his olympic training, his wrestling skills, blah blah, and says how he is sick and tired of how RVD an inferior "spot monkey" is what the fans want to see over himself. He says he came to ECW to "CHANGE THE FACE OF ECW" and until RVD is beaten for the belt, the change will not be complete....etc etc

 

So now the feud is basically setup as Kurt Angle turns heel and starts a program with RVD for the ECW World Title.

 

Thoughts?

 

What is this, Smackdown? Do we really want "jealousy among feuding tag partners" to be the basis for ECW's first big main event feud? I much prefer the idea of initially building to a face/face match based on respect, and then have Angle turn heel in the match by accepting help from someone who was initially his sworn enemy, yet who he has natural reason to join storyline wise. Also, if Angle turns heel in the match and cheats to get the belt, it builds to a natural rematch at the next big show where Sandman can neutralize Punk by squashing him in the undercard, and then we can finally see what RVD and Angle can do against each other one on one.

 

The promo you wrote out is pretty good, and I can see Angle using that later when talking about how Van Dam isn't a "real wrestler" and how he just accepted help from Punk to "level the playing field" for the way RVD blatantly uses weapons, but I think that if ECW's going to be "revolutionary", they should try to go with fresh storylines instead of the same cliche heel turns we've seen dozens of times in the WWE.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think you could brew a feud between RVD and Angle with their conflicting wrestling styles. Since the ECW fans are already all over RVD's nuts you can basically be the ECW Champ for awhile, as Kurt Angle is going through the ECW roster one by one, not necessarily squashes, but he wins his matches. So this goes on well into 2007, RVD is getting the glory, while Kurt Angle is quietly ripping through the roster.

 

You build RVD and Angle as the #1 and #2 faces of the company. Then comes a Tag Team match RVD teaming up with Angle against whoever the big heels are at the time. The match is going on, with the heels getting the upper hand, RVD is positioned to get the Hot tag, The crowd is chanting for RVD....however.....Kurt Angle refuses to tag out, instead taking more punishment while trying to turn the match around himself. Eventually the heel executes a move into the corner of RVD, and RVD slaps Angles shoulder to tag himself in and take the match upon himself. From here, you can either have RVD win the match from the hot tag OR you can do the classic angle where RVD gets to the point where he needs to tag out and Angle abandons him. That weeks episode ends.....

 

The next week Styles is in the ring, demanding an explanation from Angle, he comes out and talks about his olympic training, his wrestling skills, blah blah, and says how he is sick and tired of how RVD an inferior "spot monkey" is what the fans want to see over himself. He says he came to ECW to "CHANGE THE FACE OF ECW" and until RVD is beaten for the belt, the change will not be complete....etc etc

 

So now the feud is basically setup as Kurt Angle turns heel and starts a program with RVD for the ECW World Title.

 

Thoughts?

 

What is this, Smackdown? Do we really want "jealousy among feuding tag partners" to be the basis for ECW's first big main event feud? I much prefer the idea of initially building to a face/face match based on respect, and then have Angle turn heel in the match by accepting help from someone who was initially his sworn enemy, yet who he has natural reason to join storyline wise. Also, if Angle turns heel in the match and cheats to get the belt, it builds to a natural rematch at the next big show where Sandman can neutralize Punk by squashing him in the undercard, and then we can finally see what RVD and Angle can do against each other one on one.

 

The promo you wrote out is pretty good, and I can see Angle using that later when talking about how Van Dam isn't a "real wrestler" and how he just accepted help from Punk to "level the playing field" for the way RVD blatantly uses weapons, but I think that if ECW's going to be "revolutionary", they should try to go with fresh storylines instead of the same cliche heel turns we've seen dozens of times in the WWE.

 

 

Well I wasn't really meaning that they were tag partners for anything other then the proposed match. As far as the "respect" storyline, well ECW has done that before too with RVD/SABU and turning RVD heel, but I feel either your or my scenario could work.

[NoCalMike 0]

Wait until ECW is dead in 10 weeks.

 

Move him back to SD, where he gets another handful of token title reigns, yet is never booked as the main character. Fin.

 

 

Wow, we have a real ECW fan here, I count that two replies in two seperate ECW threads adding little to nothing to the conversation.

 

[iggymcfly 0]

I didn't mean that the respect thing had never been done before. Hell, even in the WWE it was done at WM X-7. I was just saying that it wasn't something that had been done so many times that it's lost its impact. The thing where a tag partner gets jealous and walks out has been done a million times in the WWE, both where they were long-term tag partners, and when they weren't. It just smacks of lazy booking, and "we didn't know how to turn this guy heel any other way".

 

By doing it at a big show, with a title on the line, in a hypocritical manner, that still makes sense in terms of the character, it makes the turn more impactful, and it makes the fans get more into the characters in the long run. I think what actually irks me the most is that follows the same formula that the WWE uses all the time of "turn face in a manner that shocks the fans and explain why later". If Angle enlists Punk to help him win the title, then it's obvious why he changed at that point. Because the title was important to him and he had to win that match. Someone watching the show would think "aw shit, Angle joined up with Punk because he needed his help to beat RVD", not "why would Angle walk out on the match, this is stupid."

[King Cucaracha 0]

The trouble is, internet fanbase or not, Punk just isn't big enough to be wrestling the main star in the entire brand (and yes, I consider Angle bigger than Van Dam) straight off the bat.

 

Punk/Dreamer writes itself. You have Punk show up as the newest ECW signing and stick him in against someone he knows, like Stevie Richards, give him a win on Sci-Fi. Next week maybe another win against someone like Mamaluke (failing there being anyone else he knows from OVW or ROH), then a simple promo the week after. Now he's established, have an in-ring presentation or ceremony of some sort for Terry Funk. In mid-speech Funk is interrupted by Punk, who cuts a promo about the old and the new and all that jazz. He then lays the legend out, destroys whatever Funk was presented with. Instant heel. Then, more promo-time. Have Punk say he's going to run through whatever ECW established name he likes, whenever he likes, until he's the man. Dreamer takes exception, challenges Punk, kicks off the feud. Step 1, people know who Punk is. Step 2, people give a crap. Have Punk say he's just doing what Dreamer did 10 years ago, making his name off of the vets. Dreamer fires back that he earned his reputation by taking beatings, not jumping retirees. Hell, you can even have Punk continually reference that he's dating "Raw Diva Maria", just to be a dick.

 

Angle/Punk are capable of a good/great match. Punk/Dreamer would be a legitimately memorable blood feud. And Punk stands more chance of going over and looking strong against Dreamer than he does against Angle.

[ryankeast 0]

The trouble is, internet fanbase or not, Punk just isn't big enough to be wrestling the main star in the entire brand (and yes, I consider Angle bigger than Van Dam) straight off the bat.

 

Punk/Dreamer writes itself. You have Punk show up as the newest ECW signing and stick him in against someone he knows, like Stevie Richards, give him a win on Sci-Fi. Next week maybe another win against someone like Mamaluke (failing there being anyone else he knows from OVW or ROH), then a simple promo the week after. Now he's established, have an in-ring presentation or ceremony of some sort for Terry Funk. In mid-speech Funk is interrupted by Punk, who cuts a promo about the old and the new and all that jazz. He then lays the legend out, destroys whatever Funk was presented with. Instant heel. Then, more promo-time. Have Punk say he's going to run through whatever ECW established name he likes, whenever he likes, until he's the man. Dreamer takes exception, challenges Punk, kicks off the feud. Step 1, people know who Punk is. Step 2, people give a crap. Have Punk say he's just doing what Dreamer did 10 years ago, making his name off of the vets. Dreamer fires back that he earned his reputation by taking beatings, not jumping retirees. Hell, you can even have Punk continually reference that he's dating "Raw Diva Maria", just to be a dick.

 

Angle/Punk are capable of a good/great match. Punk/Dreamer would be a legitimately memorable blood feud. And Punk stands more chance of going over and looking strong against Dreamer than he does against Angle.

 

Like It. Then after Dreamer. He can then go onto RVD and Angle.

[uhftv 0]

the first show had Angle beat Credible with a choke

 

But then the next week he wrestled in the tag main, in regular WWE style match.

 

They need to make up their minds first.

[iggymcfly 0]

Why can't he wrestle multiple styles? It doesn't make sense that he'd just forget his whole arsenal in two weeks. He's just adding to it by making the choke a viable finisher. Oh, and I didn't think the tag match was regular WWE style at all. That match was more creative than anything I've seen on WWE TV in at least 6 months.

[Hawk 34 0]

Why can't he wrestle multiple styles? It doesn't make sense that he'd just forget his whole arsenal in two weeks. He's just adding to it by making the choke a viable finisher. Oh, and I didn't think the tag match was regular WWE style at all. That match was more creative than anything I've seen on WWE TV in at least 6 months.

 

They are trying (and failing) to make Angle into a Taz/Danielson wrestling machine hybrid. They give him the bad ass, shoot style persona of Taz mixed with the wrestling expertise of Danielson who can beat you in over 20 different ways. The problem is that Angle is horrible at it.

[iggymcfly 0]

Define "horrible at it". The man continually wrestles good matches, does some really good suplexes, and gets the crowd into the "intense" persona. I'll agree it comes off a little overdone, and the mouthpiece looks stupid, but he's far from "horrible at it". Also, I think some people are trying to pigeonhole Angle's gimmick into MMA-shooter. That's not it at all. He's supposed to be an amateur wrestler who knows some chokes and has a few more shoot elements added. I kind of liken it to Taker adding some MMA moves to his arsenal, more than the idea that Angle's supposed to be ready to go straight into the octagon or something.

[Lei Tong 0]

Now this is coming from an MMA fan who hasn't watched pro wrestling even semi-regularly for the past half decade, but I agree that I'm not really feeling Kurt's new style. The technical execution comes off as pretty sloppy, and makes both Kurt & his opponents look bad because of it, IMO.

 

As an example: Kurt's new love of his double leg. Now, if he's trying to get over as a ground technician, why not stick to his opponent like glue to set up something on the ground as follow-up, instead of dumping them like any other slam or suplex? Also, when it comes to his shot, does anyone find it hard to believe even in pro wrestling logic that people wouldn't know better than to expect a shot from an amateur wrestler who's walking around with his level changed. Have him feint a punch, pump high & go low, SOMETHING to set it up. Hell, he could feint a shot, and when his opponent goes to sprawl, have him jump on them with a front headlock. As for the submissions and positioning on the ground, I'll just say that there's very little reason to not be able to do some smooth transitions or put on some proper looking subs with a compliant partner.

 

While watching Kurt wrestling I see tons of things that can be done or changed that would work within the confines of the gimmick. For example, rather than have him use a half dozen during a match, have him use the German/back suplex as a devastating move. Then, put him against an opponent who mentions how much he respects Kurt's ability and has scouted him thoroughly for the match. During the bout, show how much the opponent respects the move, as he willingly back himself against the ropes or into a corner and lets Kurt pound on him rather than give up his back. Eventually, Kurt takes their back with a quick duck under from a collar & elbow, only to find that opponent has trained for this as well, and counters with a dropdown & switch, and attempts to suplex Kurt instead. You can repeat this position a few times with variations, like with a switch battle or the opponent defending the German with a leg hook long enough to drop down again. As it seems Kurt is wearing himself down from trying and failing at nailing the maneuver, during another attempt, as his opponent tries to push his hips out and drop down, have Kurt abandon the rear waistlock and immediately slap on a bulldog choke for the win. This puts over Kurt's versatility, submission skills and ability to end the fight at the flick of an eye.

 

Then again, I'm just a dumb MMA fan, so maybe I'm totally off base here.

[uhftv 0]

Not in favor of Angle losing clean so quickly on tv and not in favor of having him face RVD so soon. That was the one matchup they could have held off on for a LONG time, being totally different in character, demeanor and style.

3rd show in, and thats blown.