How do you feel about Iraq?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Just because we _could_ invade Iraq doesn't mean it was the right decision, ultimately. Also, invading and the having a plan for occupation are two separate things.

[cbacon 0]

Definitely right to invade.

Hussein violated UN sanctions, the UN did nothing about it, so the US (along with British help) eradicated the problem.

 

Ask the rest of the world how much safer they'd feel if Saddam was controlling Iraq, with that Iranian nut sitting right next to him.

 

In hindsight, I'm very happy the coalition did what they did. The Middle East needs to be brought into the modern world, and Iraq is an example (free elections), that will pay dividends for years to come. Having a strong allie in that part of the world is very important globally.

 

Democracy takes time. Sheesh, it took the US like 12 years before they finally won the Revolutionary War and had any semblance of a free country.

 

Iraq hasnt had democracy in how long? Forever. Its going to take awhile, but I'm happy for the Iraqi people. No one should live under conditions where the Dictator uses chemical weapons on their own people.

 

Now some might say "Its not our problem", but when Hussein threatens global economics (and he does since he sits on the World's primary energy source), steps need to be taken to fix the problem.

 

I support the US Troops, the President, and the decisions made.

 

 

Prime example of what's wrong with American media.

[Guest JustPassinBy]

Definitely right to invade.

Hussein violated UN sanctions, the UN did nothing about it, so the US (along with British help) eradicated the problem.

 

Ask the rest of the world how much safer they'd feel if Saddam was controlling Iraq, with that Iranian nut sitting right next to him.

 

In hindsight, I'm very happy the coalition did what they did. The Middle East needs to be brought into the modern world, and Iraq is an example (free elections), that will pay dividends for years to come. Having a strong allie in that part of the world is very important globally.

 

Democracy takes time. Sheesh, it took the US like 12 years before they finally won the Revolutionary War and had any semblance of a free country.

 

Iraq hasnt had democracy in how long? Forever. Its going to take awhile, but I'm happy for the Iraqi people. No one should live under conditions where the Dictator uses chemical weapons on their own people.

 

Now some might say "Its not our problem", but when Hussein threatens global economics (and he does since he sits on the World's primary energy source), steps need to be taken to fix the problem.

 

I support the US Troops, the President, and the decisions made.

 

 

Prime example of what's wrong with American media.

 

I dont watch the liberal news.

So they havent affected me.

 

Not sure why you make it seem like America was the only nation to invade Iraq. There was a coalition of over 30 ountries. Just bc the US/Britain did most of the heavy lifting, doesnt mean it was a solo project.

 

Fuck France and Germany. Maybe when WWIII breaks out, we wont be there to bail them out.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Only the EIB network will suffice for JustPassinBy.

[MrRant 0]

Definitely right to invade.

Hussein violated UN sanctions, the UN did nothing about it, so the US (along with British help) eradicated the problem.

 

Ask the rest of the world how much safer they'd feel if Saddam was controlling Iraq, with that Iranian nut sitting right next to him.

 

In hindsight, I'm very happy the coalition did what they did. The Middle East needs to be brought into the modern world, and Iraq is an example (free elections), that will pay dividends for years to come. Having a strong allie in that part of the world is very important globally.

 

Democracy takes time. Sheesh, it took the US like 12 years before they finally won the Revolutionary War and had any semblance of a free country.

 

Iraq hasnt had democracy in how long? Forever. Its going to take awhile, but I'm happy for the Iraqi people. No one should live under conditions where the Dictator uses chemical weapons on their own people.

 

Now some might say "Its not our problem", but when Hussein threatens global economics (and he does since he sits on the World's primary energy source), steps need to be taken to fix the problem.

 

I support the US Troops, the President, and the decisions made.

 

 

Prime example of what's wrong with American media.

 

I dont watch the liberal news.

So they havent affected me.

 

Not sure why you make it seem like America was the only nation to invade Iraq. There was a coalition of over 30 ountries. Just bc the US/Britain did most of the heavy lifting, doesnt mean it was a solo project.

 

Fuck France and Germany. Maybe when WWIII breaks out, we wont be there to bail them out.

 

We bailed out Germany?

[Art Sandusky 0]

You know, we kinda did.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Not sure why you make it seem like America was the only nation to invade Iraq. There was a coalition of over 30 ountries. Just bc the US/Britain did most of the heavy lifting

Gee, that's a great analogy for dying in combat. Makes it sound almost painless when you look at it that way.

[MrRant 0]

You know, we kinda did.

 

Well after WWII yes, but I think he was implying during WWI/II for some reason.

[Guest Hemme]

Hussein violated UN sanctions, the UN did nothing about it, so the US (along with British help) eradicated the problem.

True, but UN violantions happen daily all over the world, why pick out Iraq first?

 

Ask the rest of the world how much safer they'd feel if Saddam was controlling Iraq, with that Iranian nut sitting right next to him.

The thought of someone like George Bush in control of a country is a more scary thought.

 

In hindsight, I'm very happy the coalition did what they did. The Middle East needs to be brought into the modern world, and Iraq is an example (free elections), that will pay dividends for years to come. Having a strong allie in that part of the world is very important globally.

What? So we basicly invade anyone who is different from us? The middle East is fine, why try to "westernize" people who actually might not want it.

 

Democracy takes time. Sheesh, it took the US like 12 years before they finally won the Revolutionary War and had any semblance of a free country.

Yeah it does, but does plunging a country into Civil war encourage democracy?

 

Now some might say "Its not our problem", but when Hussein threatens global economics (and he does since he sits on the World's primary energy source), steps need to be taken to fix the problem.

Yeah but it's NOT our problem, if Iraq want us to buy or trade oil, we do it, you don't just step in & take it.

 

I support the US Troops, the President, and the decisions made.

Good for you, but lets not forget a lot of people in 1939 had the same opinion.

[cbacon 0]

Another one of those "isolated incidents":

 

U.S. troops accused of killing Iraq family

 

By RYAN LENZ, Associated Press Writer 13 minutes ago

 

BEIJI, Iraq - The U.S. Army will investigate charges that American soldiers were involved in the killings of four Iraqi relatives, including a woman who had been raped, military officials said Friday. It's the sixth current inquiry into the alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by American troops.

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Some of the five soldiers also allegedly burned the body of the woman they are accused of assaulting in the March incident, a U.S. military official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

 

The U.S. command issued a statement saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, had ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged killing of a family of four in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad.

 

At least 14 American troops have been convicted in other cases.

 

The United States also is investigating allegations that two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians were killed by Marines in the western town of Haditha on Nov. 19 in a revenge attack after one of their own died in a roadside bombing.

 

"The entire investigation will encompass everything that could have happened that evening. We're not releasing any specifics of an ongoing investigation," military spokesman Maj. Todd Breasseale said of the Mahmoudiyah allegations.

 

"There is no indication what led soldiers to this home. The investigation just cracked open. We're just beginning to dig into the details."

 

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said he had no additional details on the incident but added that the military routinely investigates all allegations of misconduct.

 

However, a U.S. official close to the investigation said at least one of the soldiers, all assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment, has admitted his role and been arrested. Two soldiers from the same regiment were slain this month when they were kidnapped at a checkpoint near Youssifiyah.

 

The official told the AP the accused soldiers were from the same platoon as the two slain soldiers. The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded.

 

The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one of them to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

 

According to a senior Army official, the alleged incident was first revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.

 

A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes, and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.

 

He also said the four people killed included three adults and a child, and one of the adults was the woman who allegedly was raped.

 

One of the accused soldiers already has been discharged and is believed to be in the United States, several U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to Forward Operating Base Mahmoudiyah.

 

Senior officers were aware of the family's death but believed it was due to sectarian violence, common in the religiously mixed town, a U.S. official said.

 

The killings appeared to have been a "crime of opportunity," the official said. The soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

[NoCalMike 0]

Another one of those "isolated incidents":

 

U.S. troops accused of killing Iraq family

 

By RYAN LENZ, Associated Press Writer 13 minutes ago

 

BEIJI, Iraq - The U.S. Army will investigate charges that American soldiers were involved in the killings of four Iraqi relatives, including a woman who had been raped, military officials said Friday. It's the sixth current inquiry into the alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by American troops.

ADVERTISEMENT

 

Some of the five soldiers also allegedly burned the body of the woman they are accused of assaulting in the March incident, a U.S. military official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

 

The U.S. command issued a statement saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, had ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged killing of a family of four in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad.

 

At least 14 American troops have been convicted in other cases.

 

The United States also is investigating allegations that two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians were killed by Marines in the western town of Haditha on Nov. 19 in a revenge attack after one of their own died in a roadside bombing.

 

"The entire investigation will encompass everything that could have happened that evening. We're not releasing any specifics of an ongoing investigation," military spokesman Maj. Todd Breasseale said of the Mahmoudiyah allegations.

 

"There is no indication what led soldiers to this home. The investigation just cracked open. We're just beginning to dig into the details."

 

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said he had no additional details on the incident but added that the military routinely investigates all allegations of misconduct.

 

However, a U.S. official close to the investigation said at least one of the soldiers, all assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment, has admitted his role and been arrested. Two soldiers from the same regiment were slain this month when they were kidnapped at a checkpoint near Youssifiyah.

 

The official told the AP the accused soldiers were from the same platoon as the two slain soldiers. The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded.

 

The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one of them to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

 

According to a senior Army official, the alleged incident was first revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.

 

A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes, and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.

 

He also said the four people killed included three adults and a child, and one of the adults was the woman who allegedly was raped.

 

One of the accused soldiers already has been discharged and is believed to be in the United States, several U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to Forward Operating Base Mahmoudiyah.

 

Senior officers were aware of the family's death but believed it was due to sectarian violence, common in the religiously mixed town, a U.S. official said.

 

The killings appeared to have been a "crime of opportunity," the official said. The soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

 

 

Innocent Until Proven Guilty....but if this is true then, disgusting.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I don't get why some people use disobeying the UN as a reason for invading, then turn around and enumerate the reasons the UN is terrible.

[NoCalMike 0]

I don't get why some people use disobeying the UN as a reason for invading, then turn around and enumerate the reasons the UN is terrible.

 

Not only that but compare the amount of times a country like oh, say....ISRAEL has broken or not followed UN Resolutions, and it makes it a very weak argument that we actually care about UN Resolutions. And no, I am not anti-Israel, which conservatives like to pretend means "anti-jew"(but that is an entire different thread) I just am pointing out that the UN Resolution argument is a weak one at best.

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

American troops have been pulling out... of the Iraqi girls they've been raping. I hope so anyways, especially since they like to set them on fire afterwards.

 

I'm ashamed of my country.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The difference with Israel is that most of the UN resolutions concerning it have been total bullshit forced by racist Arab countries. The UN resolutions on Iraq were justified since it was obviously a war mongering nation, attacking Kuwait, having weapons programs, killing its own Kurdish people, etc.

[cbacon 0]

It's ridiculous how many times the US and Israel have played their veto cards in the last thirty years.

 

And the sanctions against Iraq crippled their economy, destroyed their infrastructure, led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children due to lack of medicine and clean water, and perhaps most importantly, crushed any chance of a popular revolt that would have removed Saddam over a decade ago. Hardly justifiable.

 

The stated reasons for the sanctions are also hypocritical since the US were helping Saddam's regime during the worst of his crimes.

[Dr. Zaius 0]

And the sanctions against Iraq crippled their economy, destroyed their infrastructure, led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children due to lack of medicine and clean water, and perhaps most importantly, crushed any chance of a popular revolt that would have removed Saddam over a decade ago.

Can you please explain that last one?

[cbacon 0]

The sanctions strengthened Saddam’s grip on the country, and thus, the people of Iraq had greater dependency on him for their survival. If it weren’t for the sanctions Saddam could have been removed internally like other dictators in the past. Several UN diplomats that were in Iraq during the sanctions strongly believe this would have been the case.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Were they the same diplomats getting oil on the sly?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, I'm of the midn that sanctions generallly don't work anyway. I mean, look at Cuba.

[Dr. Zaius 0]

The sanctions strengthened Saddam’s grip on the country, and thus, the people of Iraq had greater dependency on him for their survival. If it weren’t for the sanctions Saddam could have been removed internally like other dictators in the past. Several UN diplomats that were in Iraq during the sanctions strongly believe this would have been the case.

Can you elaborate on how Saddam Hussein manipulated the sanctions that caused the Iraqi people to depend more on him and to be less likely to depose him?

[Guest JustPassinBy]

The thought of someone like George Bush in control of a country is a more scary thought.

 

Yeah, I'm so scared Bush will used WMD's on his own people, like Hussein has.

I'm really scared Bush will start nuking Canada, like Iran's president wants to nuke his neighboring countries.

 

The Liberal far out leftists.....always good for a laugh.

[cbacon 0]

The sanctions strengthened Saddam’s grip on the country, and thus, the people of Iraq had greater dependency on him for their survival. If it weren’t for the sanctions Saddam could have been removed internally like other dictators in the past. Several UN diplomats that were in Iraq during the sanctions strongly believe this would have been the case.

Can you elaborate on how Saddam Hussein manipulated the sanctions that caused the Iraqi people to depend more on him and to be less likely to depose him?

 

 

I think it's pretty clear. It's harder for the mostly Shiite opposition to form any sort of revolt during economic crisis and a country on the verge of starvation. Instead, the masses had to rely on him if they wanted any sort of stability in order to survive. They were able to form a rebellion before the sanctions occured, but the US set idly by as he crushed the opposition, as he was 'the lesser of two evils' at the time.

[Guest Hemme]

 

The thought of someone like George Bush in control of a country is a more scary thought.

 

Yeah, I'm so scared Bush will used WMD's on his own people, like Hussein has.

I'm really scared Bush will start nuking Canada, like Iran's president wants to nuke his neighboring countries.

 

The Liberal far out leftists.....always good for a laugh.

Erm...No.

You miss the point, the stone cold fact is that Mr Bush is not really that smart is he? The man has terrible politcical apptitude, I'd expect the leader of the most powerful country in the world to be able to read a written speech, without fucking it up, sadly Mr Bush has trouble doing so.

 

As for the troops & all the rape stuff, just because these muppets are "defending our freedom" (dont even get me fucking started on that crock of shit) doesent mean that they are all nice guys. Sometimes, sadly, soldiers arent nice people & given the power & freedom they have, they abuse it. It's happened throught history, I can't believe people are surprised by some of the tings that go on, bad people are bad people, regardless of what flag they fight under.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

What I don't get, is in posts like the above, people make Bush out to be an idiot...but then the same people will turn around and say Bush in an evil mastermind who faked 9/11 and manipulated the nation into going to war with Iraq?

 

You can't have it both ways.

[Guest Hemme]

What I don't get, is in posts like the above, people make Bush out to be an idiot...but then the same people will turn around and say Bush in an evil mastermind who faked 9/11 and manipulated the nation into going to war with Iraq?

 

You can't have it both ways.

Again....No.

The Terrorist attacks on 9/11 were exactly that, terrorist attacks, people pissed off with the US, who decided to attack it.

So how does the US react? They decide that attack is the best form of defence & beging blowing the shit out of third world countries.

Yay! way to go!

USA! USA! USA!

[Dobbs 3K 0]

What would you have done? Held a peace conference with Osama bin Laden where we could have talked about our feelings, and how sorry we were for helping him kick the commie-atheist Soviet Union out of Afghanistan? Then, maybe George W. Bush and Osama could have joined hands and engaged in a stirring rendition of John Lennon's "Imagine", right before bin Laden headed back to Afghanistan to thank Allah and plan how to cut our throats next.

[Timmy8271 0]

Defenitley a mistake. We haven't even won in Afganistan yet, why invade iraq? And by the looks of it, we are gonna invade north korea in a couple years. But on the other hand, we can't leave. We have to say there until we get bin laden.

 

If this becomes another Korea, where we keep people there forever (50 years)

 

Will it be seen as a failure.

 

What are you talking about? It's already a failure and you can thank old GW for the deaths of over 2500 soilders. Just my opinion. If there's a draft, i'm moving to canada. No way i'm dying for Georgie boy.

[Guest JustPassinBy]

Defenitley a mistake. We haven't even won in Afganistan yet, why invade iraq? And by the looks of it, we are gonna invade north korea in a couple years. But on the other hand, we can't leave. We have to say there until we get bin laden.

 

If this becomes another Korea, where we keep people there forever (50 years)

 

Will it be seen as a failure.

 

What are you talking about? It's already a failure and you can thank old GW for the deaths of over 2500 soilders. Just my opinion. If there's a draft, i'm moving to canada. No way i'm dying for Georgie boy.

 

Iraq has had democratic elections for the first time in forever.

To call this mission a failure, just proves how uninformed you are.

Iraq fell in like 3 weeks.

It wouldnt suprise me if the US did keep a presence in that country. Thats what happens in post-War climates when societies have to be rebuilt. The US still has a presence to this day in the South Pacific after WWII. Its been 60 years since we nuked Japan. Japan at one time was our worst enemy, we dropped two freaking nuclear weapons on them, and now they are one of our closest Allies.

The same thing will happen in Iraq, but it will take time.

 

There are so many near sighted pussies on this board that dont see the big picture, its ridiculous. If there's a draft, I hope you do move to Canada.

 

Geez, I honestly feel better about myself after reading some of this nonsense.

I know most of it is just "Anti-Bush" anything, but gmab.

Even when Clinton was in office, its not like the GOP said "hey, dont send troops to Kosovo", the GOP realizes it takes force to extract agressive hostile regimes.

 

Most of you libs could never have lived through WWII.

[Guest]

Why wait to move to Canada, move now.