PlayStation 3

[Jer 0]

... My critical success comment was sarcastic. Critical success in fighting games has never meant shit because the reviewers never knew what they were talking about.

 

Besides, critical success is the *VF fan* argument. That it's a shitty argument is what we've been saying the whole time.

[AndrewTS 0]

Critical success is only relevant when it supports a game you like. Gotcha.

 

Critical success = argumentum ad numerum = shitty argument.

 

Isn't "argumentum ad numerum" actually referring to the number of people who agree, i.e. popularity, and not numerical ratings/rankings?

 

Which at this point would be in Tekken's favor anyway?

[World's Worst Man 0]

I was also being sarcastic when I originally brought it up. It's an irrelevant argument in the best of times, made much worse by selective use.

 

Isn't "argumentum ad numerum" actually referring to the number of people who agree, i.e. popularity, and not numerical ratings/rankings?

 

It can be relevant for both. "X number of people rated it highly, it must be good" or "X number of people bought it, it must be good". VF has the former, Tekken the latter. I say it's all bullshit.

[AndrewTS 0]

Critical success in fighting games has never meant shit because the reviewers never knew what they were talking about.

 

I wouldn't say that's entirely accurate. However, fighting games tend to be scored/ranked in a 1 Player vacuum. Any fight game, even when game has mediocre or even poor gameplay, can often escape the critic hammer if they throw enough 1 player crap in the game to do.

 

Of course, online play is the exception. Any POS game with online play will usually get an extra 2/10 tacked onto their score. Although some sites have decided that if you don't have online play your game is going to *lose* points, too.

[Jer 0]

Yeah, I guess if you care about 1P modes in fighting games then reviews might be helpful. But if you want a game to play by yourself, I don't really know why'd you'd even bother with fighting games, they're really boring 1P.

 

Heh taking off points for not having online play is always fun. Cause it's such a huge loss that we can't play laggy Tekken where you see the throw after the break window has closed (Reviewer: What?! You can break throws?!)! Damn!

[Jer 0]

It can be relevant for both. "X number of people rated it highly, it must be good" or "X number of people bought it, it must be good". VF has the former, Tekken the latter. I say it's all bullshit.

 

Not to be too much of a dick, but that's kinda funny after your selective (2002 VF vs 2005 Tekken) sales argument just a page back.

[AndrewTS 0]

Yeah, I guess if you care about 1P modes in fighting games then reviews might be helpful. But if you want a game to play by yourself, I don't really know why'd you'd even bother with fighting games, they're really boring 1P.

 

Maybe once you've learned the game well/mastered it, however, how well does the game do in actually getting you to that point, without you having to learn it through hard knocks? Is the A.I., for instance, fairly well done, or does it just use upped damage, lame patterns, and encourage you to discover A.I. exploits? Is there a decent practice mode?

 

VF4 seemed to do extremely well on those basis.

 

And not every fighting game is a hardcore fighter, and often the 1 player experience shines, even though it's not going to be a staple of fighting game tournaments. Not every fighter that has no tourney scene is irredeemable trash.

[Jer 0]

Yeah I will give VF4 and VF4 Evo particular props on how good their 1P mode was at actually focusing on how the game was supposed to be played and trying for an AI that was semi-realistic. Especially the one with the high-level videos that showed what the player's hands were doing on the bottom of the screen; that was cool as hell. But to say they're the exception is an understatement; they're the only two worthwhile 1P games in the history of the genre.

[World's Worst Man 0]

I was just replying to what appeared to be a "Tekken is better because it sells more" post. Not that it has to do with the quality of games, but I'll find it amusing if VF keeps outselling Tekken and people are still clinging to that belief.

 

1P gameplay deserves recognition. It's useless if the core gameplay is junk, but it adds life to a genre that would otherwise be rather limited as a one player experience.

 

VF4's AI is fairly good. There are unnatural ways to cheap it out and beat it, but it's not difficult to avoid that sort of strategy. I also have a real life opponent I can play, which provides me a different look, so I'm fairly happy with it.

[AndrewTS 0]

they're the only two worthwhile 1P games in the history of the genre.

 

I kind like liked the Tobals' (completely different) Quest modes! And Devil Within wasn't such a bad idea...it's just that the actual mode was extremely horrible (as was Death by Degrees, but DW was free at least). And I did dig the Edge Master modes in the Soul games, even if they weren't exactly shooting for the same thing, and rather just made up arbitrary guidelines. Not every one of these 1 player modes *has* to shoot for realistic AI and one-on-one fighting gameplay.

 

However, as far as a 1 player mode that was straight up 1-on-1 fighting, I totally agree. In most fighters, the 1 player mode(s) are mostly something to keep you busy until you unlocked everything.

[Jer 0]

VF hasn't ever outsold an installment of Tekken released in the same timeframe, though. I know it's not relevant to quality, but like I broke down in my post earlier, you're not even factually correct. Again, VF4 came out *before* T4, why would you compare it to T4's sequel released 3 years later?

 

1P is irrelevant to quality of gameplay, at least to me. But yeah, obviously it needs to exist or else casual fans won't buy the games and the developer won't make more. See Capcom.

 

Edit: I did forget about Soul Blade, I marked out pretty hard for the 1P quest mode as a kid. The weapons were neat.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Because VF4 was the latest version of VF, while Tekken 5 was the latest version of Tekken. Tekken 5 showed a huge downswing in American sales, while Virtua Fighter 4 showed a huge upswing. Even Tekken 4, while outselling VF4, fell badly compared to Tekken 3. It appears that one is on the rise while the other is on the fall. No way of knowing for sure until VF5 has been out for a while, but there does appear to be a trend.

 

I doubt there are many people who have human opponents available 24/7, which leaves the 1P mode as the only way to play the game. In any case, it's something that deserves to be factored into a review of the game.

[Invictus 0]

I want a new Marvel Vs. Capcom game.

[Jer 0]

I could go into detail on the absurdity of talking about VF's supposed upward trend based on one data point (especially after VF4 Evo sold so little that VGCharts doesn't even track it), but too much sales talk is boring, so changing the subject.

 

I downloaded T5:DR on Friday and it is awesome to have it at home so I can practice, yay, although no practice mode sucks. I need to get Eric to come up and hold forward or something.

 

I'm becoming convinced that Anya is right about how solid Julia is. Her wall game is just amazing now that the ender works every time, especially since after the wall combo they're still grounded by the wall in position for more mixups. So fun. And at least for now, Maryland doesn't know that 4~2,1 is launcher punishable, so that makes it really good, heh.

 

Just going through her movelist, I realized I never used b+2 for some reason and that I probably should. If Anya ever reads this, what's the normal options that people use after b+2 on hit? The stupid computer just gets hit by 1,1,1, heh.

[Anya 0]

About VF's commercial success raising while Tekken's is falling...

 

T5DR is doing better in Japanese arcades then VF5. It has since VF5's release. Console sales are not the only way Namco and Sega make money.

 

 

 

Jer b+2 kind of sucks now. It's -1 on hit and they can just turn around to avoid the mixups. I don't think anyone uses it anymore. If I do it's just against people who don't know better and do stupid stuff like duck after it.

[AndrewTS 0]

T5DR is doing better in Japanese arcades then VF5.

 

And VF5 is being beaten by MELTY BLOOD.

[BUTT 0]

What the hell is going on in here? Is it so unbelievable to some of you people that not everyone shares the same opinions on freakin' fighting games? The level of discourse here isn't just sub-gameFAQs, it's inching down to the level of Gamespot's System Wars board circa 2003.

 

The way I see it, there's a lot of smart people in this thread acting like morons. I'm not one of them. Sensei!

[AndrewTS 0]

What the hell is going on in here? Is it so unbelievable to some of you people that not everyone shares the same opinions on freakin' fighting games? The level of discourse here isn't just sub-gameFAQs, it's inching down to the level of Gamespot's System Wars board circa 2003.

 

The way I see it, there's a lot of smart people in this thread acting like morons. I'm not one of them. Sensei!

 

Please go back and read the discussion thoroughly before commenting. You missed the point.

 

There is nothing "going on." It was tongue-in-cheek and is now over.

 

Thank you.

[World's Worst Man 0]

No, I refuse to believe that. This was SERIOUS~! BUSINESS~! My game can beat up your game. Etc.

[BUTT 0]

Sorry dude, I really thought you were at least being semi-serious. Even though I know that AndrewTS is far too knowledgeable about games to engage in such tomfoolery, I thought perhaps he was taking his support of Tekken a bit too far. But I apologize to Mr. TS.

 

P.S. Having stayed mainly with Nintendo consoles in my lifetime, it is safe to say that I know very little of today's fighting games. However, I do like the 32X version of Virtua Fighter. Nobody criticize me for this.

[EricMM 0]

I need to get Eric to come up and hold forward or something.

 

Not like me not holding forward prevents you from working on your juggles.

[Anya 0]

BTW the change to b+2 isn't the only frame data change for her.

 

f,f+3 is now just -10. At max range it can be unpunishable.

 

u/f+4 is -13 and the double kicks are -14.

 

d/f+3 is -7.

 

 

f,f+3/4~(2),1 is such an awesome mixup. After a knockdown like elbow follow them and go for it. If they get frustrated with that and start backrolling you know what to do.

 

Julia sucked in 5.0 and now the spirits have given her strength!!!

 

 

 

VF1 for 32X doesn't get hate. It was really cool back then. One of the better things about the system. That and Doom....

[AndrewTS 0]

But I apologize to Mr. TS.

 

No problem.

 

P.S. Having stayed mainly with Nintendo consoles in my lifetime, it is safe to say that I know very little of today's fighting games. However, I do like the 32X version of Virtua Fighter. Nobody criticize me for this.

 

It's a good port, save for the crap music. It's still VF*1* though, and extremely dated. Though I have the ROM and it's fun to mess around with for sure.

[BUTT 0]

VF1 for 32X doesn't get hate. It was really cool back then. One of the better things about the system. That and Doom....

Wasn't the Doom port missing levels?

[Anya 0]

It's missing the entire 3rd episode. Still good for a 32X game and better then some other ports like SNES and 3DO.

[AndrewTS 0]

PAL PS3s testing for compatibility:

 

http://kotaku.com/gaming/eragon/pal-ps3-ba...date-244005.php

 

And yes, it sucks.

 

Well, who wants to play MGS2 now anyway?

 

Of course there will be upgrades to the firmware and stuff to address that, but looks like they have a lot of work to do on it.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Best Buy isn't going to sell the $499 model anymore, as well as many other stores. I doubt many stores have many sitting on shelves anyway to hope for a discount..bleh.

[AndrewTS 0]

A ton of PS2 games don't work on Europe PS3s.

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/20/breaking...d-compatiblity/

 

Sony doesn't look too interested in fixing that.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070223/tc_nm/...ation_europe_dc

 

..On Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."

"If the developer wrote the game according to our technical requirements checklist, we will have what we believe will be almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, there always are, but we believe those will be very few and far between. Even less so than we saw from PSOne to PS2."

...On Microsoft's Difficulties with Xbox 360 Backward Compatibility

"I don't believe that was backwards compatibility."

 

Oops.

[EricMM 0]

Final Fantasy XIII exclusivity in discussion, says Sony France

 

Final Fantasy XIII exclusivity in discussion, says Sony France

 

SCEE France president Georges Fornay didn't choose his words carefully. Just days after Devil May Cry and Ace Combat, two long-time Sony exclusives, were announced for Xbox 360, on the eve of PlayStation 3's "official" European launch, Fornay told French newspaper Les Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace, "Enfin, pour Final Fantasy XIII, je peux vous dire que l'exclusivité est en discussion." That's something like: As far as Final Fantasy XIII goes, I can tell you that the exclusivity is in discussion. Well Georges, it looks like you'll be sleeping on the couch tonight.

 

But the repercussions of Fornay's vague remark go beyond losing pillow-talk privileges with Mr. Kutaragi. His words have ignited a polarized frenzy of paranoia and glee -- despite the obvious ambiguity of "l'exclusivité est en discussion." What does Fornay mean?

That's open to interpretation, and interpret we have. But let's not confuse a poor choice of words as confirmation of a megaton revelation. While Square Enix is a multi-platform developer, history tells us that Final Fantasy XIII will be published on one system, in this case, PS3 (and then perhaps ported to a handheld a decade from now). Final Fantasy XI has been the exception -- but it's also the exception in the series. [Note: FFVII & VIII were released for Windows roughly 10 & 4 months after their PS1 debuts.]

 

But there are other murmurs that support the popular interpretation of Fornay's comment -- that Sony has lost control of FFXIII's exclusivity. (Did Sony ever have it?). Last week, in an interview with GameSpot, Final Fantasy creator and Mistwalker founder Hironobu Sakaguchi gossiped that FFXIII's proprietary White Engine has been made "open platform," suggesting that Square Enix might be planning a FFXIII port for Xbox 360; or even a simultaneous release. Or, Square Enix might simply want to use the White Engine to create an Xbox 360 exclusive. We just don't know -- and neither does Fornay. Difference is: when he said it, we all were listening.

 

Source: Les Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace [subscription required]

 

Dun dun DUNNNN!

 

Now.

 

I'm not saying that this is concrete or confirmed or anything, but where there's smoke there's fire. And there has been an awful lot of this going on for Sony over the last year...

[Ripper 0]

No one is going to exclusively support the worse selling console. Not saying that PS3 won't catch up eventually, but as of right now, it lacks its killer must have game and is being outsold by the WII and the 360. Since the Wii isn't a option for some of the highend games, they have to go with the best selling console where they will most likely sell the most games. This isn't suprising seeing as this is how Sony kicked everyones ass last time, they shouldnt be suprised.