oAo Monday Night Raw thread- 4/16/07

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Cena brought in fans that wouldn't have been there if say HHH or HBK or etc were the champion. I've never seen so many women and children be interested in the product since the boom period. So it's not just the "loyal" fans watching.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

April 19, 2004: 3.8

 

April 16, 2007: 3.7

 

Those are the Raw ratings for the same week in 2004 and this past Monday.

 

2004 is before John Cena was ever world champion, and obviously long before the God-push. That week was also longer after a Wrestlemania than the Raw of the same week in 2007. Also, the 2004 Raw was broadcasted on a much less-watched network (Spike vs. USA).

[foleyfanforever88 0]

But while Cena is bringing in a ton of women and children, many guys in the main WWE demographic are being turned off by his superman gimmick. I have quite a few friends who were hardcore fans for years but have stopped watching almost completely. They stuck around through Katie Vick and other ridiculously stupid stuff yet Cena is finally the one thing to push them away. He seriously, SERIOUSLY, needs to drop the belt and chase for a good 6-8 months if the WWE doesn't want to lose a good amount of fans.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I'm going to continue to stir the pot by tossing out another rating from the same week of Raw:

 

April 21, 2003: 3.8

 

2003 was one of the worst years for Raw in terms of quality. You had Steiner feuding with Chris Nowinski at this time over the war in Iraq, Triple H had just finished squashing Booker T in a racist angle, and Nash was being brought in as the new main event feud. Yet it drew the same rating as last Monday's Raw despite this new legion of Cena fans.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I will use Peter Boyle's line in an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, "Obviously you put more thought in this than I have." I have no answer for it other than the fanbase has clearly changed, but the amount of the total base remains virtually the same. I've talked to friends that watched in 2003 but stopped since, and other friends who didn't watch in 2003 but started now.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I will use Peter Boyle's line in an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, "Obviously you put more thought in this than I have." I have no answer for it other than the fanbase has clearly changed, but the amount of the total base remains virtually the same. I've talked to friends that watched in 2003 but stopped since, and other friends who didn't watch in 2003 but started now.

 

That's good point. I should rephrase my point, rather than it being the same people they'll hold onto, it'd be the same numbers by trying something new.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'm more interested in the product than two years ago, for what it's worth. I think Cena's entertaining.

 

Honestly, WWE's in good shape. I'd rather see the world title on one wrestler rather than hotshotted from wrestler to wrestler in an attempt to get them over. The last couple of years they've brought in a number of talented young wrestlers and that effort has brought us Johnny Nitro, Carlito, Cryme Tyme, Kenny Dykstra, Umaga, Trevor Murdoch, Elijah Burke, Ken Kennedy, MVP, and CM Punk. Now not all of these guys are future stars. But I honestly feel this is an exciting time to be a fan. I don't think there's another strong face ready to carry the company, so I have no problem with Cena.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I'm more interested in the product than two years ago, for what it's worth. I think Cena's entertaining.

 

Honestly, WWE's in good shape. I'd rather see the world title on one wrestler rather than hotshotted from wrestler to wrestler in an attempt to get them over. The last couple of years they've brought in a number of talented young wrestlers and that effort has brought us Johnny Nitro, Carlito, Cryme Tyme, Kenny Dykstra, Umaga, Trevor Murdoch, Elijah Burke, Ken Kennedy, MVP, and CM Punk. Now not all of these guys are future stars. But I honestly feel this is an exciting time to be a fan. I don't think there's another strong face ready to carry the company, so I have no problem with Cena.

 

That's true, I don't think there's another face ready to carry the company. Problem is, a few years ago guys were being groomed to take the reins of the company -- Cena (obviously), Randy Orton, Batista, Edge and to some extent Christian. Now the company focuses so much of its time and energy on 1. Cena and 2. Lashley, everyone else seems lost in the shuffle. And while I think Lashley is being "groomed," it's a much different and much more detrimental push than the one Cena had in 2004. Lashley's a forced push, no build-up to him at all. So really, there's no one to take the reins if something happens to Cena. Obviously they'd find someone to thrust into the spotlight, but forced pushes don't work (just look at Orton as opposed to Batista. They went the right route with Batista, while they forced Orton there and the fans shit on it).

 

CM Punk may be getting groomed, but it's on a show that gets a rating below 2.0, so tossing him in to that role without a build on the major shows would be the same as forcing a midcarder from Raw or Smackdown.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

It'd be interesting to see an updated "viewers added/lost" breakdown for Raw. The last one showed Cena's segments adding HUGE numbers of viewers, but that was a while ago (at least it's been a while since someone posted them on this board).

[Guest robrabies]

I really can't wait for the fans to start 'thitting" on Lashley

[Jericholic82 0]

Wait, so Cena got booed in Italy? I thought Cena only got booed in smarky cities! Maybe all those years of Italy being an ECW stronghold are coming back to bite Mr. Cena in the BUTT

kinda doubly sad since Cena is of Italian descent.

why is he so hated? I mean hes getting HHH level smarky hatred here (I guess he is like the new version of HHH, beats everyone and stays champ, only difference here is, its not family politics.)

[Guest robrabies]

Wait, so Cena got booed in Italy? I thought Cena only got booed in smarky cities! Maybe all those years of Italy being an ECW stronghold are coming back to bite Mr. Cena in the BUTT

kinda doubly sad since Cena is of Italian descent.

why is he so hated? I mean hes getting HHH level smarky hatred here (I guess he is like the new version of HHH, beats everyone and stays champ, only difference here is, its not family politics.)

 

He's boring. His character is stale. His promos only cater to 12 year olds. He has a generic offense that isn't convincing in a comeback role. He's a capable worker, but nothing exciting. Vince molds his character as though he's The Rock, when he couldn't hold Rock's pube from his jock on his best day, and he's pushed harder than anyone since Hogan circa 1987 despite having no credibility to draw nearly as well as guys like Austin, Hogan or Rock. And to me, that is the biggest insult. Don't pretend to be great when you're not and don't push him as though he's a trascendent star when he's not even close.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Wait, so Cena got booed in Italy? I thought Cena only got booed in smarky cities! Maybe all those years of Italy being an ECW stronghold are coming back to bite Mr. Cena in the BUTT

kinda doubly sad since Cena is of Italian descent.

why is he so hated? I mean hes getting HHH level smarky hatred here (I guess he is like the new version of HHH, beats everyone and stays champ, only difference here is, its not family politics.)

 

Obviously I only speak for myself, but my dislike of Cena isn't "smarky." I don't dwell on him selling or not selling. I don't like him because I feel his character is patronizing. I can't stand the way he comes stomping out and yelling to the crowd, I hate the whole Marine salute jingoistic crap. His finishing move looks like shit -- I mean, it's a fireman's carry, devolved from a pretty good looking Death Valley Driver he used to do back in '03. His other finisher is beyond awful looking -- the "headgrab and scream of doom." That's gotta be the shittiest looking STF I've ever seen. Maybe my criticism of his signature finishers is smarky, I dunno. But that bugs me.

 

I also hate that it's considered "smarky" to not like Cena. If he gets booed on Raw, it's not because he's been booked terribly, it's 'cause the fans are a bunch of smarks! Gimme a break. More people on the Net like him than don't, so I don't really think it's some IWC trend to hate on Cena. I've actually seen other message boards that consider Cena-Umaga the frontrunner for Match of the Year. He's booed because a large portion of the crowd is men over the age of 17 who feel his gimmick is lame and are sick of seeing, every month, JOHN CENA OVERCOMES THE ODDS THE CHAMP IS STILL HERE BUH GAWD!

 

His promos drive me nuts. I'm not kidding when I say one of his promos in the fall kept me from watching until after the Royal Rumble. It was some shit about "up is down black is white east is west," and then to show how anti-authority he was, he uses his move on Tod Grisham. OH MY, he's the new Stone Cold 'cause he took out the announcer for no reason! That promo was so god awful, so condescending, it kept me from watching Raw for like three months.

 

I'll give him credit for improving in the ring by leaps and bounds since 2003, 2004. He still needs to be booked in brawls to look really great, but he holds his own well enough in straight-up matches. But while his ringwork is better, his character and promos are exponentially shittier. I look at the decision to turn him face like I do Austin. Fans cheered Austin despite the fact he cussed and stun everyone, heel or face. Fans cheered Cena for his freestyles and attitude. Now imagine if Austin had been turned from the DTA, Austin 3:16 character to 1987 Hulk Hogan. That's essentially what was done with Cena.

 

None of this is to say I want to see the title hotshotted around the roster, as anytime someone suggests Cena lose that's the conclusion most people seem to jump to. I'd like to see a heel get a decent reign with the belt, and the build with a face chasing the title.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Wait, so Cena got booed in Italy? I thought Cena only got booed in smarky cities! Maybe all those years of Italy being an ECW stronghold are coming back to bite Mr. Cena in the BUTT

kinda doubly sad since Cena is of Italian descent.

why is he so hated? I mean hes getting HHH level smarky hatred here (I guess he is like the new version of HHH, beats everyone and stays champ, only difference here is, its not family politics.)

 

Obviously I only speak for myself, but my dislike of Cena isn't "smarky." I don't dwell on him selling or not selling. I don't like him because I feel his character is patronizing. I can't stand the way he comes stomping out and yelling to the crowd, I hate the whole Marine salute jingoistic crap. His finishing move looks like shit -- I mean, it's a fireman's carry, devolved from a pretty good looking Death Valley Driver he used to do back in '03. His other finisher is beyond awful looking -- the "headgrab and scream of doom." That's gotta be the shittiest looking STF I've ever seen. Maybe my criticism of his signature finishers is smarky, I dunno. But that bugs me.

 

I also hate that it's considered "smarky" to not like Cena. If he gets booed on Raw, it's not because he's been booked terribly, it's 'cause the fans are a bunch of smarks! Gimme a break. More people on the Net like him than don't, so I don't really think it's some IWC trend to hate on Cena. I've actually seen other message boards that consider Cena-Umaga the frontrunner for Match of the Year. He's booed because a large portion of the crowd is men over the age of 17 who feel his gimmick is lame and are sick of seeing, every month, JOHN CENA OVERCOMES THE ODDS THE CHAMP IS STILL HERE BUH GAWD!

 

His promos drive me nuts. I'm not kidding when I say one of his promos in the fall kept me from watching until after the Royal Rumble. It was some shit about "up is down black is white east is west," and then to show how anti-authority he was, he uses his move on Tod Grisham. OH MY, he's the new Stone Cold 'cause he took out the announcer for no reason! That promo was so god awful, so condescending, it kept me from watching Raw for like three months.

 

I'll give him credit for improving in the ring by leaps and bounds since 2003, 2004. He still needs to be booked in brawls to look really great, but he holds his own well enough in straight-up matches. But while his ringwork is better, his character and promos are exponentially shittier. I look at the decision to turn him face like I do Austin. Fans cheered Austin despite the fact he cussed and stun everyone, heel or face. Fans cheered Cena for his freestyles and attitude. Now imagine if Austin had been turned from the DTA, Austin 3:16 character to 1987 Hulk Hogan. That's essentially what was done with Cena.

 

None of this is to say I want to see the title hotshotted around the roster, as anytime someone suggests Cena lose that's the conclusion most people seem to jump to. I'd like to see a heel get a decent reign with the belt, and the build with a face chasing the title.

 

I was going to eventually post more about my thoughts on Cena, but ya. You basically covered it.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I don't really know... it became cool to boo Cena in certain places, but there are certainly some places that still don't like the guy.

 

I mean look at the Mania match with Shawn... pretty much the whole crowd is against Cena, but they start marking the fuck out when he finally hits the F-U.

 

I think it's the smart thing to keep the belt on Cena, as it's creating a new age Flair effect.

 

And for the low ratings... I can't really blame that on Cena... shit the first 30 minutes were taking up by McMahon, Umaga, unknown Italian guy, and Lashley. If I had to sit through that, I probably would have found something else to do then watch the rest of Raw.