Smackdown Vs Raw 08

[AndrewTS 0]

I've basically hated the games from HCTP on (really lopsided stat systems). I'm not expecting any major changes here.

[dubq 0]

I usually skip a year, so I bypassed 2007 and will be getting a copy this time. Burke, Sandman, Punk, Thorn, Cor Von, are all gonna be fun.

 

 

Same here. I bought HCTP. Skipped the first SDvRaw. Picked up 2006. Skipped 2007. I was really disappointed that 2007 was apparently so bad (I've never played it) because Mr. Fucking Perfect was in it... I was hoping it'd be on the same level as 2006 at least to warrant a purchase.

[Golgo 13 0]

I'll get 2007 on the cheap at some point. For Perfect if nothing else. Unless he's one of the legends this year, then fuck it.

[Scroby 0]

I actually really enjoyed 07, which was kinda odd because I hated the Smackdown series before hand (Big AKI WCW/WWE game fan) but even though I enjoyed 07, I felt Yukes or whoever made the game got really lazy with it after they got certain aspects down.

 

The Create A Wrestler wasn't to bad, but it's where I feel Yukes got real lazy with as it just felt...uncompleted. When I first started playing the game and making my own wrestler, I kept asking myself questions about why I couldn't this or that or why i had to go to a compete and total area to take things off my wrestler that I either didn't like or only wanted something on him during a certain point of a enterance/match/or back stage thing.

 

Why can't I take my CAW online because of he has a tattoo or a formal design? Why does only certain animations come out with a title belt while others don't? Why does certain animations have a extra gimmick that I don't want (see Bret Hart/Undertaker animation)? Maybe I don't want my wrestler wearing Bret Hart's shades when coming down the ramp, or maybe I don't want to be carryin Boogeyman's clock with me when I first come out the curtain.

 

Things like that just made me feel like the game makers really didn't take a whole lot of time in having the CAW aspect of the game make sense. There was just to many questions about it and it seemed really arkward at times.

 

Another gripe I had about 07 was about the create a title. When making my centerpiece for the title, why in the holy fuck do I need to have a big huge icon in the middle of my belt when I'm trying to see what kind of centerpiece plate I want? That made no sense, if I'm picking my center plate for my title I would love to see it with nothing covering it up so I can figure out what the entire design looked like. Why Yukes didn't make it so you pick your centerpiece plate, then an icon (if you wanted it) without automatically having the icon cover up most of the plate was beyond my thinking.

 

And the guy who mentioned the music a few posts back. Your right, someone needs to pick better generic theme music, actual theme music that I could have my guy come out to and you know what else might be nice, a option where I can pick when I want him to come out during the beginning part of the song.

 

Another gripe I had with CAW was the horrible "pick a camera angle" thing. Finding the right camera angle's for your wrestler was nearly impossible and was very arkward. This needs to be a simpler option.

 

 

I think personnally, CAW and CAT was my biggest pet peeves about this game. Like I said, I just felt that Yukes got really lazy with those things and a few other things as well. Hopefully with 08, Yukes will spend a little bit more time fine tuning the game instead of just saying "oh well, it's fine the way it is." because it won't be fine!

 

 

 

 

[Mike wanna be 0]

Agreed 100% with Scroby. Lack of custom entrance themes killed me; I was set to make 2 Owen Harts (one for Nation, one for "The Rocket/King of Harts" Owen) with about an hour of internet surfing for the themes, only to find that I couldn't put them in the entrance. Lame.

 

I also hated the size imbalance, but for dubious reasons (I always create the colossus Nightmare as my CAW to start, and since he's a Super Heavyweight I would catch shit from anyone I played on Live because of the size imbalancing.)

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I don't understand why people are griping about the size issue. I like it this way better than seeing Big Show do hurricanranas or seeing Rey Mysterio powerbomb Triple H.

[dubq 0]

I think personnally, CAW and CAT was my biggest pet peeves about this game. Like I said, I just felt that Yukes got really lazy with those things and a few other things as well. Hopefully with 08, Yukes will spend a little bit more time fine tuning the game instead of just saying "oh well, it's fine the way it is." because it won't be fine!

 

 

Barring all of the gripes about the CAW - is the gameplay relatively similar to 2006? I would be persuaded to pick it up for $20 or less if I saw it, but like Geedorah said pretty much only for Hennig. But if the gameplay is absolutely atrocious (keeping in mind that I actually enjoyed the gameplay from HCTP and 2006) and a huge step down then I wouldn't bother.

 

And while we're on the subject of the Create a Title.. can we fucking revamp that thing already? A] I shouldn't be forced to pick a centre icon. I should just be able to use the centre plate with nothing on it.. but no, they have this big fucking blank square in the middle. Who designed this?! And really.. when the hell am I going to use an icon of a butterfly? Or a rainbow? Or an Egyptian coffin? Or a pair of fucking lips?! Ugh...

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

You mean I'm the only one that created the 'Kiss My Ass' Title with the lips? damn...

[J.B. Buzzkill 0]

But if the gameplay is absolutely atrocious (keeping in mind that I actually enjoyed the gameplay from HCTP and 2006) and a huge step down then I wouldn't bother.

 

It is. Save your money and stick with HCTP.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

But if the gameplay is absolutely atrocious (keeping in mind that I actually enjoyed the gameplay from HCTP and 2006) and a huge step down then I wouldn't bother.

 

It is. Save your money and stick with HCTP.

 

Says you. Get this game if you want an updated roster and a much more realistic wrestling engine.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I played the N64 titles extensively, and played Smackdown a few times on PS1 (didn't care for it at all). I ended up picking 2007 after a few recommendations on this board, and I thought it was pretty fun. Specifically, I thought using the right stick to do grapple moves was really well done. Why specifically do you think the gameplay is atrocious J.B.? Just curious, since I haven't played HCTP etc.

 

This game might also be worth picking up for Benoit, since he'll never be in another game again.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

He is probably just pissy because his lightweight CAW can't powerbomb the Big Show. That seems to be the only reason people complain about the game.

[luke-o 0]

Would it be too far to say that SvR07 is the weakest in the franchise in terms of developement, ideas and execution?

 

No, that would be Just Bring It, with it's what..6 match career mode?

 

I believe it was 3 matches.

 

My favourite one of the series has been Here Comes The Pain. But the best wrestling game of all time is still No Mercy.

[dubq 0]

But if the gameplay is absolutely atrocious (keeping in mind that I actually enjoyed the gameplay from HCTP and 2006) and a huge step down then I wouldn't bother.

 

It is. Save your money and stick with HCTP.

 

Says you. Get this game if you want an updated roster and a much more realistic wrestling engine.

 

No doubt? I'll check it out then. I'm sure I saw it for $19 at one of the used shops around here the other day.

[AndrewTS 0]

He is probably just pissy because his lightweight CAW can't powerbomb the Big Show. That seems to be the only reason people complain about the game.

 

Do you remember that same complaint in No Mercy?

 

No? Me neither.

 

It isn't a problem that Big Show is stronger than Chavo. It's that heavyweight wrestlers who have been given better pushes/are more popular have been blessed with superior stats in every single area given them capabilities far above and beyond reality. It's a joke. Roid freaks who get injured 3 months out of the year have toughness rating off the charts, and cruisers who get folded up like accordions and bump like freaks have much lower ones and have nothing to make up for it.

 

And when you compare the game versions of wrestlers with the real versions, then look at there stats...well, let's see...

 

*

OVR STR SPD SUB CHA DUR HRD TEC STA

Triple H 94 9 7 8.5 9.5 9 8.5 9.5 8

Shelton 87 8 7.5 8.5 7 8 7.5 9 8

 

So, HHH, the quad-tearing, bloated guy whose above-average brawling and fancifully overrated wrestling ability is superior or equal in every single area to Shelton Benjamin, except for HALF A POINT DIFFERENCE IN SPEED!!

 

This is a still an improvement over Here Comes the Pain and the the immediate follow-ups, where Main Eventers and Upper carders had all the stat advantages and everyone else basically sucked in comparison.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6083505/p-2.html

 

*

WRESTLER OVR STR SUB END TEC SPD

Triple H 90 9.5 8.5 10 9 8

Shelton 73 6 7.5 7.5 8 7.5

 

Yeah, HHH a point and half superior speed in HCTP. Plus he's got the advantage in *every other area*. Horse****.

 

*(SEE ATTACHMENT for easier to view table comparing the stats)

statssvr.html

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Can you reduce stats for non-caws in 2007? I've only modified stats on my caw, but I assumed that you could reduce anyone's stats if you wanted. If you don't like HHH having such high stats, you can always raise Shelton's stats to match, right?

 

It's that heavyweight wrestlers who have been given better pushes/are more popular have been blessed with superior stats in every single area given them capabilities far above and beyond reality

 

Cmon man. I see what you're saying, that there should be more of a difference between Shelton and HHH. But what reality are we talking about here? WWE owns the game, they're always going to want whatever guys they're pushing at the top in terms of stats. Cruisers being treated like crap in the game is just an extension of how they treat cruisers irl. Shelton is just some guy to the marks, while HHH is supposed to be the greatest wrestler ever. It makes sense from the WWE perspective to have the stats skewed this way.

 

Anyways, what kind of stat distribution would work for you while keeping HHH overall > Shelton overall?

[AndrewTS 0]

Cmon man. I see what you're saying, that there should be more of a difference between Shelton and HHH. But what reality are we talking about here? WWE owns the game

 

Since I don't really watch anymore, I'm not going to accept such a mediocre video game. A more nuanced stat system is something that would have been a great addition to the No Mercy sequel that never was.

 

And WWE owns it but Yukes developed it, a Japanese company just like AKI. AKI made great games, and that's because the engine and gameplay was so solid and awesome it equally sustained fantastic WWE games as well as Japanese-flavored wrestling games.

 

Yukes titles show that WWE/THQ turned into such rabid control freaks they want the silliest, most inconsequential crap in WWE to make it into the game, but the gameplay clearly means doink all to them.

 

Anyways, what kind of stat distribution would work for you while keeping HHH overall > Shelton overall?

 

Why does HHH have to have a higher OVR? Cuz he's held the belt a million times? Who is the better athlete? There's still room for flaking on the arbitrary stats like CHR and HRD, anyway.

 

Higher STR and CHA for HHH I could buy; Shelton should be far higher in speed and stamina. I won't list actual numbers because as it is the system is so fundamentally screwed it needs thrown out the window. If they chopped down the women's stats and actually made some people in low in areas they should be, it wouldn't really be an issue to me.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

So you're saying they should make it easier for Shelton to beat Triple H when he probably wouldn't be able to in real life, outside that fluky win in 2004, which was a good THREE years ago?

[AndrewTS 0]

So you're saying they should make it easier for Shelton to beat Triple H when he probably wouldn't be able to in a WWE sanctioned and booked match, outside that fluky win in 2004, which was a good THREE years ago?

 

I corrected your question to reflect what you intended to ask.

 

A: Considering that booking arrangements, politics, angles, who the crowd views as higher status, and father in laws have absolutely no business affecting the outcome of a match in a video game, absolutely.

 

 

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Why does HHH have to have a higher OVR? Cuz he's held the belt a million times? Who is the better athlete?

 

If it's all based on who is the better athlete, Big Show would have an overall of like 50 since his knees are shot. Guys like Daivari would be rated higher overall. The problem is that WWE isn't based on reality at all (Big Show vs Daivari would be a 30 second squash), and the game is a reflection of WWE more than it is on actual athletic ability. The only thing the dev could do to offset this is to allow all of the stats to be modifiable, and I think they have.

 

I'm not sure if you're serious that Shelton should have higher stats than HHH. WWE wouldn't allow the game to be released if that happened, and Yukes makes way too much money off the series to risk their relationship with WWE.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

But it is a WWE game, with WWE licensed names and titles and PPVs and so forth. They have a right to decide who's hard to beat and who isn't. I don't see any problem with it to be honest. Good players can win matches when their guy is only 36 rated and facing the Undertaker.

[dubq 0]

Have to agree with TWD and Parka on this one. It's a game that emulates the WWE "universe" - not the TSM version of Smackdown vs Raw.

[AndrewTS 0]

Why does HHH have to have a higher OVR? Cuz he's held the belt a million times? Who is the better athlete?

 

If it's all based on who is the better athlete, Big Show would have an overall of like 50 since his knees are shot.

 

His strength should far higher than anyone on the roster save for basically Henry, then. Plus he'd have other benefits not reflected in the stats, such as reach. And yes, you have to fudge the numbers a bit in some areas, to throw a better balance into it. WWF Raw on SNES had that, even. Sure, maybe you could argue somebody should have higher or lower strength, but on a relative scale their were fine. But like I said, that's not the issue, it's that all the numbers are basically whacked, and the main guys are far too high in every area. The OVR *intentionally tiers the roster*, and it sucks.

 

Guys like Daivari would be rated higher overall. The problem is that WWE isn't based on reality at all (Big Show vs Daivari would be a 30 second squash), and the game is a reflection of WWE more than it is on actual athletic ability.

 

That's the problem. Great athletes get crap stats in the games when they should be better. Then it magically changes the next year. It sucks. I don't care what promotion's label is on the box. It's something that doesn't belong in the game.

 

I'm not sure if you're serious that Shelton should have higher stats than HHH. WWE wouldn't allow the game to be released if that happened, and Yukes makes way too much money off the series to risk their relationship with WWE.

 

Shelton can't have higher stats in areas he realistically should have higher stats in, not even taking the account the bogus, botched way the OVR is? HHH can't *dare* have lower stats in areas he should have lower ones, because his OVR must be Uber? It's detrimental to the gameplay, and the way the wrestlers should control. The game is broken by design.

 

But it is a WWE game, with WWE licensed names and titles and PPVs and so forth. They have a right to decide who's hard to beat and who isn't.

 

And their game is a lot lousier for it. Give me a valid reason it makes for a better game. The fact that it reflects Vince's fantasyland rankings isn't what I consider valid. Why, strictly as a gamer, should I like it that way?

 

I don't see any problem with it to be honest. Good players can win matches when their guy is only 36 rated and facing the Undertaker.

 

They can and they will, yes. I *fondly* remember that awful Career Mode in HCTP...where you build up a created wrestler's stats from nothing. In the mean time, you play matches by beating the hell out of all the other wrestlers and attempting to never, ever get hit. What joy it was when I took on Undertaker with really low stats, and after he inevitably earned a special for doing nothing other than kicking out of moves, he back elbowed me, Tombstoned me, and won the match. Such fun! I can and would win, but it doesn't make the game's implementation any less stupid.

 

If the stat-building cheat didn't exist (allowing you to clone wrestlers, lower their weight class, and use the points knocked off them when the class caps kicked in to build up others, rinse and repeat), the CAW would be nearly useless. They are keeping it in, right?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

One thing they could do to improve it, by Andrew's standards, I am guessing, is separating their prestige from their actual in-ring stats. Like in Smackdown: Shut Your Mouth, you had a ranking system to decide how over your worker was, all the while still maintaining a separate in-ring attribute set. So HHH might be a god in the rankings, but people below him would be the better athletes.

[dubq 0]

ATS, why do you get tied into such a knot over this? It's the way it's been for a long time and it's not going to change. The then WWF knew jack shit about videogames and how they could manipulate them, that's why you didn't see this kind of stuff during the N64 era. They probably have a whole quality control (WWE-style) team to deal with this now.

 

Besides - If you hate the games so much, ignore them. That's how I know nothing about the Final Fantasy series these days.

[AndrewTS 0]

Have to agree with TWD and Parka on this one. It's a game that emulates the WWE "universe" - not the TSM version of Smackdown vs Raw.

 

See: No Mercy, where stats were very generalized and generally on-par with the real superstars.

 

See: WWF Raw on the 16-bit systems, which had diverse stats that overall were "balanced."

 

See: WWF Warzone/Attitude, which incorporated a similar attribute system. Different characters had different strengths and weaknesses, their OVR was basically the same, just weighted in different areas for a better overall balance.

[Maztinho 0]

I think personnally, CAW and CAT was my biggest pet peeves about this game. Like I said, I just felt that Yukes got really lazy with those things and a few other things as well. Hopefully with 08, Yukes will spend a little bit more time fine tuning the game instead of just saying "oh well, it's fine the way it is." because it won't be fine!

 

 

Barring all of the gripes about the CAW - is the gameplay relatively similar to 2006? I would be persuaded to pick it up for $20 or less if I saw it, but like Geedorah said pretty much only for Hennig. But if the gameplay is absolutely atrocious (keeping in mind that I actually enjoyed the gameplay from HCTP and 2006) and a huge step down then I wouldn't bother.

 

And while we're on the subject of the Create a Title.. can we fucking revamp that thing already? A] I shouldn't be forced to pick a centre icon. I should just be able to use the centre plate with nothing on it.. but no, they have this big fucking blank square in the middle. Who designed this?! And really.. when the hell am I going to use an icon of a butterfly? Or a rainbow? Or an Egyptian coffin? Or a pair of fucking lips?! Ugh...

 

My Rainbow Title was awesome. I'd put it on HHH. It gave me joy.

[AndrewTS 0]

ATS, why do you get tied into such a knot over this? It's the way it's been for a long time and it's not going to change. The then WWF knew jack shit about videogames and how they could manipulate them, that's why you didn't see this kind of stuff during the N64 era. They probably have a whole quality control (WWE-style) team to deal with this now.

 

WWE fans buy the games anyway. If the games were better games and weren't infected so badly by WWE control (like No Mercy), I'd buy them because I like good wrestling games. I own and play Rumble Roses and its sequel, but I haven't purchased a WWE game since Smackdown vs. Raw (and that was because I got it for 10 bucks).

 

You tolerate it because, for whatever reason, you still like WWE. I don't have that clouding my judgment of the game. What's so hard to understand about wanting the games to be better, and not blindly buying them because it says WWE on the box?

 

Besides - If you hate the games so much, ignore them. That's how I know nothing about the Final Fantasy series these days.

 

That's what I'm doing, at least until they change this.

 

One thing they could do to improve it, by Andrew's standards, I am guessing, is separating their prestige from their actual in-ring stats. Like in Smackdown: Shut Your Mouth, you had a ranking system to decide how over your worker was, all the while still maintaining a separate in-ring attribute set. So HHH might be a god in the rankings, but people below him would be the better athletes.

 

Yeah, like a constantly updated THE RAW TOP TEN!! showing up in story mode.

 

Coincidentally, SYM is the last of the newer games I owned for more than 2 months. The attributes system wasn't perfect, but it was designed so moves were put into certain skill categories, and the better your rank for it the more effective that move was for you. Basically, just like Fire Pro, which has an attribute system that works extremely well.

 

The actual gameplay (grappling system, collision detection, animation, gameplay modes) is severely dated in SYM tho, so I don't really play it anymore. OTOH, I still play No Mercy, in all its low-res, blurry-textured, crappy-sounding, voiceless glory.

[dubq 0]

ATS, why do you get tied into such a knot over this? It's the way it's been for a long time and it's not going to change. The then WWF knew jack shit about videogames and how they could manipulate them, that's why you didn't see this kind of stuff during the N64 era. They probably have a whole quality control (WWE-style) team to deal with this now.

 

WWE fans buy the games anyway. If the games were better games and weren't infected so badly by WWE control (like No Mercy), I'd buy them because I like good wrestling games. I own and play Rumble Roses and its sequel, but I haven't purchased a WWE game since Smackdown vs. Raw (and that was because I got it for 10 bucks).

 

You tolerate it because, for whatever reason, you still like WWE. I don't have that clouding my judgment of the game. What's so hard to understand about wanting the games to be better, and not blindly buying them because it says WWE on the box?

 

Heh, wrong. Don't assume you know my motives for playing a game so well, buddy. Or whether or not I even like WWE. The most I get out of them is following results here and there on the net. I haven't even regularly watched any of their TV since 2002.

 

I play SOME of their games (I already said that I don't buy every single one of them) because I want to. ..And if it's a little dumbed down and the statistics are on THEIR terms, then so be it. I also play Wrestle Kingdom. I also play Firepro. I also play King of Colosseum. I also play All Star Pro Wrestling. ...and yes I also play some of the WWE series on PS2. Big whoop. Doesn't mean I'm a slave to the WWE or that I blindly buy a game because of their logo on a box. That was a pretty stupid thing to assume, dude.

 

Besides - If you hate the games so much, ignore them. That's how I know nothing about the Final Fantasy series these days.

 

That's what I'm doing, at least until they change this.

 

Well, not really. You're not really ignoring them when you're in here pissing on me as having clouded judgement or being a blind buyer because I enjoy some of these games.

 

 

Also, don't assume that Firepro's default attribute system is so balanced. New Japan and big company wrestlers get better stats in that game than indy stars and small company stars. So this isn't just a WWE/Yukes mindset.

[AndrewTS 0]

I play SOME of their games (I already said that I don't buy every single one of them) because I want to. ..And if it's a little dumbed down and the statistics are on THEIR terms, then so be it. I also play Wrestle Kingdom. I also play Firepro. I also play King of Colosseum. I also play All Star Pro Wrestling. ...and yes I also play some of the WWE series on PS2. Big whoop. Doesn't mean I'm a slave to the WWE or that I blindly buy a game because of their logo on a box. That was a pretty stupid thing to assume, dude.

 

Heh, sorry about that. I didn't consider it an insult because being a WWF/E fan is the only reason I tolerated the SD series as long as I have. Since I'm not, I don't any longer. Plus, to me, being blindingly accepting of the WWE's way of handling this (the stat system) seems the only way *defend* the way it currently is. I didn't need the reasons it is the way it is *explained* to me, but I find its implementation indefensible especially after how long they've made these things. These games are in the minority, most others try to keep a decent central balance. I listed other WWF/E ones that did. I don't see what's so hard about them fixing it.

 

If fact, you should be all the more demanding, since you've played superior Yukes offerings and know they can do better. The stat system is a big reason I can't stand the games, but it's an example of the larger problem of "one step forward, two steps back" the entire series has followed. Surely you remember Smackdown 2: Know Your Role and Watch the Loading Screen? For all its improvements, you needed divinely-granted patience to tolerate career mode in that one.

 

Well, not really. You're not really ignoring them when you're in here pissing on me as having clouded judgement or being a blind buyer because I enjoy some of these games.

 

Actually, I am. When a new (wrestling) game is announced and released, I typically read up on them, see if I can determine if the gameplay has been improved significantly and the stat system tweaked/changed enough to tolerate it. Then I often rent it. Then I see it sucks. *Then* I ignore it.

 

Likewise, I rented and played FFXII after having mixed feelings about the demo. I wasn't so much "bad' as it was a "I no reason to care about this game at all" thing. Then I stopped playing it and ignored it. You kind of need to know what the game is like to see if you should really ignore it. If you completely ignore the games' existence and releases, then how would you know if/when it became good?

 

Also, don't assume that Firepro's default attribute system is so balanced. New Japan and big company wrestlers get better stats in that game than indy stars and small company stars. So this isn't just a WWE/Yukes mindset.

 

Didn't say the stats were more balanced, just mentioned that SYM was kind of like it and that overall I feel its better in the way it's implemented. And the vast bulk of the rosters in Fire Pro are major promotions, so it's quite different than handicapping a big portion of the roster, intentionally.