OAO TNA: Hard Justice PPV Thread

[Scroby 0]

I love reading the reactions to the Joe/Kurt feud. I can't tell if you guys are over-reacting to it or just really upset that Joe lost. The way it sounds how things went, the way the match ended was just an excuse to continue the Kurt vs Joe feud. It's a typical swerve finish but at least it continues the feud.

 

Actually, re-reading the reactions to some of you guys again. TNA did a great job booking the end of the Joe vs Kurt match, it ended up pissing you all off, TNA didn't book anything bad juding by your reactions to Kurt winning the match. Espically JHawk and Cabbageboy's "Joe is getting buried" reaction.

 

Are you high? They made Samoa Joe look like a complete moron and did a "swerve" that everyone could see coming a mile away.

 

People aren't pissed off just b/c Joe lost, it's because he looked awful in losing and it was the latest screwjob in a series of them.

it's the typical serve finish. It's the heel outsmarting the babyface, all this does is pretty much build up their feud more and more until Joe actually wins the title, unless TNA does what they did to Raven to Joe, then I don't see a problem with the finish of the match other than it being a typical Heel outsmarting the Babyface to gain the upper hand angle.

[The Niggardly King 0]

So yeah, they failed to cement Monty Brown in 2005... Joe in 2006, and once again in 2007... I can't wait to see who in '08.

 

WCW's spirit still lives on.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There are ways for a heel to outsmart a babyface without the babyface looking like a total imbecile. Everyone knew Karen was turning on Joe from the second the angle started. If the babyface walks merrily into an ambush that the whole arena can see coming a mile off, why should anyone care about him?

[Scroby 0]

Let me guys ask you a serious question, how many times have you been able to predict some kind of angle or gimmick ending in a certain way? How many times do you see a swerve or turn happening weeks before it actually happens? It's nothing new in wrestling, espically when a angle/gimmick that fans are used to is being used and just because certain fans think thats how the angle/gimmick is going to end, doesn't mean bookers should go ahead and run with it. So people saw the turn happening, so what? Does it still not generate heat? Does it not still continue a feud?

 

Yes the Karen Angle swerve on Joe was a old and tired formula that people saw coming a mile away, so what? So it supposely makes Joe look like an idiot (i'm saying supposely because I didn't watch the ppv match) but the only people who think Joe is an idiot for having Karen Angle in his corner are the ones who just wanted Joe to win the titles and think it's going to hurt his creditablity, but it won't.

 

I understand that TNA used a tired and old formula for the end of Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe, but it's professional wrestling, the same old and tired formulas are used all the time and you want to know why, becuase the tired and old formulas still work.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Let me guys ask you a serious question, how many times have you been able to predict some kind of angle or gimmick ending in a certain way? How many times do you see a swerve or turn happening weeks before it actually happens? It's nothing new in wrestling, espically when a angle/gimmick that fans are used to is being used and just because certain fans think thats how the angle/gimmick is going to end, doesn't mean bookers should go ahead and run with it. So people saw the turn happening, so what? Does it still not generate heat? Does it not still continue a feud?

 

The problem with this turn is that was so rushed, I think Karen Angle was on TV twice before the PPV and they immediately had her 'turn' on Angle in her first appearance, that was no time to either care about Karen or want her to leave Kurt enough to where her turning on Joe meant anything. It's an angle that should work, and can, but it didn't work here because it was so rushed and contrived that people didn't have time to get into the angle to want to see it play out, and because it was so obvious it seemed more lame that it probably is.

 

Yes the Karen Angle swerve on Joe was a old and tired formula that people saw coming a mile away, so what? So it supposely makes Joe look like an idiot (i'm saying supposely because I didn't watch the ppv match) but the only people who think Joe is an idiot for having Karen Angle in his corner are the ones who just wanted Joe to win the titles and think it's going to hurt his creditablity, but it won't.

 

I understand that TNA used a tired and old formula for the end of Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe, but it's professional wrestling, the same old and tired formulas are used all the time and you want to know why, becuase the tired and old formulas still work.

The problem with this turn is that was so rushed, I think Karen Angle was on TV twice before the PPV and they immediately had her 'turn' on Angle in her first appearance, that was no time to either care about Karen or want her to leave Kurt enough to where her turning on Joe meant anything. It's an angle that should work, and can, but it didn't work here because it was so rushed and contrived that people didn't have time to get into the angle to want to see it play out, and because it was so obvious it seemed more lame that it probably is.

 

Yes, angles like this are tried and true methods of drawing money, and yes, they often work, but this one didn't because it's execution was so rushed and convoluted that none of that mattered. Instead of being another part in an interesting and compelling storyline, it came off like a hackneyed plot device that nobody wanted to see because they were never given the time to get into the angle enough to where they would want to see it.

[edgehead69 0]

So the PPV has reached WCW 2000 levels of suck?

 

 

I was highly entertained by the PPV. Sure there were some parts of the show that I could do without, but I enjoyed it. For the most parts the matches weren't bad. I think I was more upset about Abyss winning the match then I was at the swerve in the final match. I've never been a big Joe fan, and don't care if he ever wins the title. If he does, good, but if he doesn't, oh well. And I agree with the person that said if he doesn't resign, he shouldn't get shit. That's all TNA needs is for someone to win the title then walk out on the company with the belt. Keep working on Storm and Harris moving into the title picture and I'm fine with it.

 

And god forbid Pacman gets beat up off screen. The same people that bitch about that are the same people that bitch about him even coming in. Don't you get it, if he can't be touched on screen why not put him out off screen and have him written out of any action. It's the safe way to play it. TNA messed up by not getting the ok for it before hand, but they handled it the correct way after that. Now they can have Killings vs whoever Pacman gets to be in his corner, or they can get rid of him all together.

 

I love how serious people get when it comes to shows like this. "Fuck TNA for (insert complaint)." It's a fucking show, it's not real life! To make matter worse, if Vince and WWE do the same thing, people seem to love it, when TNA does, "Fuck them." I know I'm the "TNA Mark" and "they can do no wrong by me" but that's not true, they have done stuff that I haven't liked, but I watch them for the entertainment factor and I don't take everything so seriously.

 

Look Tna is in a BIG HOLE they buried themselves in... TNA is not how it was then and it is being the WCW of old... I complain about TNA and its crazy booking and overly covuluted storys... I watch every week not to bash on TNA but because its wrestling... I agree with watching for the entertainment factor.. Hell i sat through 11 month with Cena as champ and im still watchin... if WWE did the same however.... i dont know if it be worse than when TNA does it... We will see what happens as the weeks turn to months...

[Scroby 0]

Let me guys ask you a serious question, how many times have you been able to predict some kind of angle or gimmick ending in a certain way? How many times do you see a swerve or turn happening weeks before it actually happens? It's nothing new in wrestling, espically when a angle/gimmick that fans are used to is being used and just because certain fans think thats how the angle/gimmick is going to end, doesn't mean bookers should go ahead and run with it. So people saw the turn happening, so what? Does it still not generate heat? Does it not still continue a feud?

 

The problem with this turn is that was so rushed, I think Karen Angle was on TV twice before the PPV and they immediately had her 'turn' on Angle in her first appearance, that was no time to either care about Karen or want her to leave Kurt enough to where her turning on Joe meant anything. It's an angle that should work, and can, but it didn't work here because it was so rushed and contrived that people didn't have time to get into the angle to want to see it play out, and because it was so obvious it seemed more lame that it probably is.

 

Yes the Karen Angle swerve on Joe was a old and tired formula that people saw coming a mile away, so what? So it supposely makes Joe look like an idiot (i'm saying supposely because I didn't watch the ppv match) but the only people who think Joe is an idiot for having Karen Angle in his corner are the ones who just wanted Joe to win the titles and think it's going to hurt his creditablity, but it won't.

 

I understand that TNA used a tired and old formula for the end of Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe, but it's professional wrestling, the same old and tired formulas are used all the time and you want to know why, becuase the tired and old formulas still work.

The problem with this turn is that was so rushed, I think Karen Angle was on TV twice before the PPV and they immediately had her 'turn' on Angle in her first appearance, that was no time to either care about Karen or want her to leave Kurt enough to where her turning on Joe meant anything. It's an angle that should work, and can, but it didn't work here because it was so rushed and contrived that people didn't have time to get into the angle to want to see it play out, and because it was so obvious it seemed more lame that it probably is.

 

Yes, angles like this are tried and true methods of drawing money, and yes, they often work, but this one didn't because it's execution was so rushed and convoluted that none of that mattered. Instead of being another part in an interesting and compelling storyline, it came off like a hackneyed plot device that nobody wanted to see because they were never given the time to get into the angle enough to where they would want to see it.

 

I actually do agree with you that the whole storyline was rushed and I also think thats what hurt it the most and thank you for giving a better reason then "oh Joe looked like a idiot for having Karen in his corner" or "oh it sucked because Joe didn't win.".

[Jingus 0]

I understand what you're saying, but even "negative" attention (as long as it's not Benoit type attention) is good if it's on a national level (ESPN,CNN,headline news, MSNBC, which it has all been mentioned on), esp. for a small company like TNA. I equate this to when the WWE brought in convicted rapist Mike Tyson in. It brought attention to the company.

EDIT: Zack made the tyson point a copule of posts above. Guess i should read all the posts first.

Mike Tyson made money for the WWF when he was brought in. So far, Pacman has caused TNA to lose money. (Well, MORE money.) Negative attention is no good if it doesn't cause more people to watch.

 

 

 

As for the whole Angle/Joe/Karen thing, you know what bugs me the most? That Karen Angle's psychic powers told her that there would be an accidental ref bump late in the match, and that Joe wouldn't beat Kurt before then. That's how EVERY Russo Run-in happens, the ref gets knocked out right at the point when the match is going home anyway, thus conveniently allowing whoever to interfere and turn on someone.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Watched it again and there were some positive points to take home from this - Scott Steiner was on fire (although the match should probably have finished after the top rope Frankensteiner). I'm not sure how true the reports are about Steiner working against Doctors orders, but he really does seem to have fallen in 'love' with wrestling again. Sure his promo's are still out there, but his ring work has really improved.

 

Team 3D got absolutely shitted on by the crowd - 'SAME OLD SHIT, SAME OLD SHIT!' - hopefully, they pack their bags and leave when their contracts are up in September (if the reports are true), or at the least TNA realize that people are sick of seeing them.

 

Once again, I've got to applaud Abyss and the amount of crap he allows to put his body through for TNA.

[cd213 0]

Watched it again and there were some positive points to take home from this - Scott Steiner was on fire (although the match should probably have finished after the top rope Frankensteiner). I'm not sure how true the reports are about Steiner working against Doctors orders, but he really does seem to have fallen in 'love' with wrestling again. Sure his promo's are still out there, but his ring work has really improved.

 

It seems that since he has come over to TNA he's been fun to watch. He started out rough but has gotten much better. All his stuff has been better then his entire WWE run. I like that TNA allowed him to get better after his foot injury. I've enjoyed his run so far.

[luke-o 0]

His fued with Samoa Joe was something that should have gone further. I loved that fued.

[cd213 0]

As did I. It seems that the "WWE castoffs" are better in TNA with a few exceptions. Steiner, yes; Tomko, yes; Test, already more interesting. The Dudleys would need a lot to be different and interesting. Christian, he won the world title, need I say more.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

His fued with Samoa Joe was something that should have gone further. I loved that fued.

 

Totally agree with that, that was a great feud. Wonder if they enjoyed working with each other. I'm going to have to dig out the DVDs now and watch it again

[JHawk 0]

Let me guys ask you a serious question, how many times have you been able to predict some kind of angle or gimmick ending in a certain way? How many times do you see a swerve or turn happening weeks before it actually happens? It's nothing new in wrestling, espically when a angle/gimmick that fans are used to is being used and just because certain fans think thats how the angle/gimmick is going to end, doesn't mean bookers should go ahead and run with it. So people saw the turn happening, so what? Does it still not generate heat? Does it not still continue a feud?

 

Yes the Karen Angle swerve on Joe was a old and tired formula that people saw coming a mile away, so what? So it supposely makes Joe look like an idiot (i'm saying supposely because I didn't watch the ppv match) but the only people who think Joe is an idiot for having Karen Angle in his corner are the ones who just wanted Joe to win the titles and think it's going to hurt his creditablity, but it won't.

 

I understand that TNA used a tired and old formula for the end of Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe, but it's professional wrestling, the same old and tired formulas are used all the time and you want to know why, becuase the tired and old formulas still work.

A cheap DQ would have continued to build the feud and kept Joe strong. This doesn't further the feud, makes Joe look like a moron, and alienates the entire fanbase.

 

Explain to me, from a kayfabe standpoint, how I'm supposed to take Joe seriously as a title contender after that.

[Superfly Snuka 0]

I understand what you're saying, but even "negative" attention (as long as it's not Benoit type attention) is good if it's on a national level (ESPN,CNN,headline news, MSNBC, which it has all been mentioned on), esp. for a small company like TNA. I equate this to when the WWE brought in convicted rapist Mike Tyson in. It brought attention to the company.

EDIT: Zack made the tyson point a copule of posts above. Guess i should read all the posts first.

Mike Tyson made money for the WWF when he was brought in. So far, Pacman has caused TNA to lose money. (Well, MORE money.) Negative attention is no good if it doesn't cause more people to watch.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but it's a calculated risk. Pacman has the POTENTIAL to bring in non-wrestling fans as viewers (hence the investment in him) as opposed to paying Lance Hoyt for a PPV, who you KNOW will lose you money.

[Jingus 0]

But still:

 

1. Mike Tyson was famous for being the world champion in a "sport" that's kinda similar to wrestling, and had a lot of crossover appeal.

 

2. Pacman Jones is famous for being a strip club rioter who's also an above-average quarterback in his spare time.

 

3. Tyson is also one of two celebrities that EVER had a provable positive effect on the wrestling company that employed them (the other being Mr. T). Bringing in an outside "star" doesn't work 90% of the time.

 

4. I'm not saying that Hoyt is gonna save the company or anything like that, obviously he's not. But why pay a massive contract to bring in someone who can't even get in the ring, LIE about him getting in the ring, and at the same time go around cutting the pay of your long-term employees cuz you say you don't have the money?

[cabbageboy 0]

Pacman is a cornerback actually. If they just make him a manager or something and let him manage a team then I have no real problems with it. But if they are allowed to put him in the ring and they put him over ANYONE in the company then I will be seriously disgusted with this company.

 

A good swerve angle or heel turn should be something that you can see feasibly happening, but isn't so telegraphed that it's obvious. As much as it pains me, Ric Flair's 2002 heel turn on Rob Van Dam to join HHH and sew the seeds of Evolution was a beautifully done heel turn (it was the aftermath that was horrific, with HHH getting pushed even harder and RVD getting buried). That angle had:

 

1. A long term angle with Flair having lost control of Raw and now was at a crossroads.

2. Enough RVD and Flair segments on TV to establish some sort of onscreen relationship (Flair taught RVD the figure 4 for instance, and they hung out for a few weeks before that PPV).

3. HHH remarking to Flair that he needs to quit feeling sorry for himself and return to the Nature Boy of old.

4. A backstage segment at that Unforgiven PPV that lays the seeds of Flair's heel turn without telegraphing it. As in HHH kinda belittles Flair and RVD and RVD says a line like "Hey I'd rather hang out with him, even if he is washed up, rather than associate with you." It was something I could see Flair being a bit slighted after hearing it, but he didn't sell it as though he was angry.

 

But the Karen Angle stuff? She had never even been on TV until a couple weeks ago and immediately gets pissed at Angle and threatens to divorce him. This angle might have worked had Kurt invited her to stay for the PPV in the hope of making up with her, but keep Joe out of it. See, that is the big problem I have here...Joe's role in this. By taking pleasure in Angle's family woes and even adding to it (or thinking he is) Joe comes off like a total douchebag. He comes off like an asshole deserving of having Karen Angle sucker him and turn on him at a PPV.

 

Compare those two scenarios, and I know it's a bit silly to compare one of the best ever to a wrestler's wife, but it's the same sort of title match swerve. HHH and Flair both got serious heel heat there, and while RVD got buried soon after at least he didn't say "Hey Ric, why don't you come out and be in my corner tonight? It'll be swell!" In other words, at that PPV he at least looked like someone who was seriously wronged by a guy he thought was his friend.

 

Now look at Joe. What a dumb fuck. He tries to break up a man's family, then actually invites the guy's wife to the PPV, and then is SHOCKED when his opponent's wife would help her own husband. Even if it wasn't a swerve, shouldn't Joe have been worried that Kurt and Karen patched up their differences before the PPV?

 

Also as someone noted how did Karen know precisely when to run in? Joe had Angle in several compromising near falls and submissions that could have been the end of the match. Yet she didn't just run in as Angle was in the Kokina Clutch and almost beaten. In fact that finish would have been more appropriate, since it could have kept Kurt and Karen a couple and swerved everyone, but also not made Joe look like such a fool.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Tyson is known around the world, more or less to follows and non followers of boxing alike. Pacman Jones is maybe known to just NFL fans, for the most part in North America, and those who saw him on the news - again in North America. Just an observation to add to the Tyson v Pacman debate.

[Jingus 0]

Also as someone noted how did Karen know precisely when to run in? Joe had Angle in several compromising near falls and submissions that could have been the end of the match. Yet she didn't just run in as Angle was in the Kokina Clutch and almost beaten. In fact that finish would have been more appropriate, since it could have kept Kurt and Karen a couple and swerved everyone, but also not made Joe look like such a fool.

Exactly. Russo has this incredibly annoying tendency to script matches as if the people doing the run-ins have magic fortunetelling abilities that let them know that nobody's gonna get pinned until the ref gets accidentally bumped towards the end of the match.

[Scroby 0]

Let me guys ask you a serious question, how many times have you been able to predict some kind of angle or gimmick ending in a certain way? How many times do you see a swerve or turn happening weeks before it actually happens? It's nothing new in wrestling, espically when a angle/gimmick that fans are used to is being used and just because certain fans think thats how the angle/gimmick is going to end, doesn't mean bookers should go ahead and run with it. So people saw the turn happening, so what? Does it still not generate heat? Does it not still continue a feud?

 

Yes the Karen Angle swerve on Joe was a old and tired formula that people saw coming a mile away, so what? So it supposely makes Joe look like an idiot (i'm saying supposely because I didn't watch the ppv match) but the only people who think Joe is an idiot for having Karen Angle in his corner are the ones who just wanted Joe to win the titles and think it's going to hurt his creditablity, but it won't.

 

I understand that TNA used a tired and old formula for the end of Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe, but it's professional wrestling, the same old and tired formulas are used all the time and you want to know why, becuase the tired and old formulas still work.

A cheap DQ would have continued to build the feud and kept Joe strong. This doesn't further the feud, makes Joe look like a moron, and alienates the entire fanbase.

 

Explain to me, from a kayfabe standpoint, how I'm supposed to take Joe seriously as a title contender after that.

Joe gets angry for being outsmarted and beats the living hell out of Angle, but not in a match, say Angle's gloating in the ring about what happen, Joe's music hits and Joe just beats the living hell out of him until wrestlers/security are able to hold him back enough for Angle to escape and Joe keeps going after Angle until he gets a re-match. Build up to the re-match where Joe actually wins the TNA world title but TNA needs to build it up, not just hot shot it like they did with this angle.

 

Though how does the Karen Angle thing not further the feud? Joe got cheated out of a title(s) win, Joe wants revenage and a re-match, how does that further a feud?

[RedJed 0]

Let me guys ask you a serious question, how many times have you been able to predict some kind of angle or gimmick ending in a certain way? How many times do you see a swerve or turn happening weeks before it actually happens? It's nothing new in wrestling, espically when a angle/gimmick that fans are used to is being used and just because certain fans think thats how the angle/gimmick is going to end, doesn't mean bookers should go ahead and run with it. So people saw the turn happening, so what? Does it still not generate heat? Does it not still continue a feud?

 

Yes the Karen Angle swerve on Joe was a old and tired formula that people saw coming a mile away, so what? So it supposely makes Joe look like an idiot (i'm saying supposely because I didn't watch the ppv match) but the only people who think Joe is an idiot for having Karen Angle in his corner are the ones who just wanted Joe to win the titles and think it's going to hurt his creditablity, but it won't.

 

I understand that TNA used a tired and old formula for the end of Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe, but it's professional wrestling, the same old and tired formulas are used all the time and you want to know why, becuase the tired and old formulas still work.

A cheap DQ would have continued to build the feud and kept Joe strong. This doesn't further the feud, makes Joe look like a moron, and alienates the entire fanbase.

 

Explain to me, from a kayfabe standpoint, how I'm supposed to take Joe seriously as a title contender after that.

Joe gets angry for being outsmarted and beats the living hell out of Angle, but not in a match, say Angle's gloating in the ring about what happen, Joe's music hits and Joe just beats the living hell out of him until wrestlers/security are able to hold him back enough for Angle to escape and Joe keeps going after Angle until he gets a re-match. Build up to the re-match where Joe actually wins the TNA world title but TNA needs to build it up, not just hot shot it like they did with this angle.

 

Though how does the Karen Angle thing not further the feud? Joe got cheated out of a title(s) win, Joe wants revenage and a re-match, how does that further a feud?

 

Exactly - while I think that finish was uber-predictable as all hell, and didnt really care for it because of that, I dont think that buried Joe to a point of no return. Yes, it made him look a bit naive, but it wasnt like in the context of that match, he wasnt dominant. That can't be the blowoff to their feud - I easily see a final match at BFG with the two, probably under some gimmick of some sort.

 

Now lets say that IS the end of the feud as they blew it off because Joe may be on his way out, what does everyone think about the fact that maybe they did that because Joe isnt resigning? Do you really blame them that they dont put him over or are you still expecting them to? When exactly does his TNA contract expire anyway?

 

I dont get why everyone is in such a huff about the rest of the ppv other than the main event. The cage match was quite quick of a bout, but ok. The undercard, to me, was much stronger than what has been the standard on TNA ppvs throughout the year. The opener was fantastic - so people are complaining because the unpredictable finish occured? I was fine with it, does anyone really think this is burying either XXX or MCM by having Lethal/Dutt win a match against them when this appears to be likely a long term feud with the three teams? MCM are really over though, and if they arent getting a push within a few months, then I will bitch. But they were the neutral team in that match anyway, they didnt do the job so whats the issue?

 

Raven-Kaz, perfectly fine match for what it was. They put Kaz over, again, WTF people?

 

Storm/Rhino, enjoyed it for the most part - some of the props were cheesy though, in particularly the toilet. Who gives two shits if they use "real booze" or not, it looked "real enough" to me where I didnt care. Hey, at least give whoever credit for building a story in the match and not just having your a-typical bout with little to no direction in it. The feud is building more heat to me, and am looking forward to another one.

 

EY/Roode, again people are complaining on the finish. The match itself bored me a bit, just because we've seen them work SO MUCH against each other. But this appeared to be the blowoff. Roode (who deservingly deserves the last win in the feud) is put over, yet we get the babyface "wins" ending against the girl who fucked him around for months. Whats the big issue, guys?!

 

LAX/VKM, shitty match but right team goes over. Interested to seeing where Guererro/LAX goes, maybe he will manage them?

 

Harris/Rhodes, pretty heatless match, I dont know how to take this Black Reign shit other than its like the exact opposite of Goldust, which I suppose is the intention. This, actually, other than the ME finish, is the main issue I had with the show. Harris looked like a chump here, even though Rhodes was attacking him with cuffs pretty quick, etc. But he got in little to no offense and pretty much got beat the fuck down. I understand they needed to make an immediate impact with Rhodes and this new gimmick, but not at the expense of Harris.

 

Steiners/3D, other than a botch by Rick and Buh Buh, I thought this was a decent match considering the limitations all these guys have.

 

Cage match, should have been much better given the stip, etc. I'm kind of tired of Abyss always getting a ppv title shot seemingly every 3 months or so. Would have much preferred Sting-Angle at the next ppv.

 

Now to the Pacman deal - I do still wish they would have severed that contract of his once they found out he cant work a match or get into any physical shit. But I guess they really can't just do that, as it was a legal binding contract. So they are basically stuck with him - all things considering, other than the lack of giving two shits that Jones portrayed, I thought the segment was alright. Killings cut a great promo and bitching about them cutting an angle with Jones laid out in the back, other than doing NOTHING, thats about all they can do at this point to get shit started with him.

 

All in all, I thought this ppv was a few steps up, if not more, than last months show, and about at the same level as Slamiversary.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

The thing is, Abyss is getting a title shot at the next PPV so they will have to find a way to derail Joe's path to the title at least for one PPV, and I can't see them coming up with anything, since it was a woman interfering in the match.

[dubq 0]

So does anyone have a pic or a vid of Black Reign? I know it's just Goldust in B&W but I'm interested in seeing screencaps. That's one thing WWE's site has over TNA's.. they update with photos almost immediately after the event. It's been 3 days since the PPV and there's still nothing on TNA's site.

[JHawk 0]

Though how does the Karen Angle thing not further the feud? Joe got cheated out of a title(s) win, Joe wants revenage and a re-match, how does that further a feud?

 

And under what guidelines (kayfabe-wise) does Joe deserve a rematch? If a champion had to grant a rematch after every screwjob defense, we'd see the same main event every month.

 

Joe LOST and Angle is already set to move on to Abyss. From a kayfabe standpoint, Joe needs to earn another shot.

 

But if he earns it, why should I want to see it when we've established Angle can beat Joe in title match?

 

[RedJed 0]

The thing is, Abyss is getting a title shot at the next PPV so they will have to find a way to derail Joe's path to the title at least for one PPV, and I can't see them coming up with anything, since it was a woman interfering in the match.

 

Judging by the spoilers for the next few weeks, I'm thinking they will be doing Joe v. Christian at No Surrender for a title shot at BFG possibly. And if Joe would win that match, it would certainly be significant as I dont recall Christian really losing hardly ever, if not at all. At least via pinfall or submission, or am I wrong?

 

And then I'm sure this has been posted in other spots here but....

 

--Kurt Angle is trying to broker a deal for Brock Lesnar to come to TNA. Dixie Carter and Lesnar have already begun talks.

 

If TNA can do Joe v. Angle v. Lesnar at BFG, I'm more than happy with that.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

If TNA can do Joe v. Angle v. Lesnar at BFG, I'm more than happy with that.

 

Don't be silly. If Lesnar comes in, Vince Russo will forget about Joe faster than Milli Vanilli and just build on to Angle vs Lesnar.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Joe against Angle and/or Lesnar would have meant something a year ago, when Joe was still special.

[RedJed 0]

If TNA can do Joe v. Angle v. Lesnar at BFG, I'm more than happy with that.

 

Don't be silly. If Lesnar comes in, Vince Russo will forget about Joe faster than Milli Vanilli and just build on to Angle vs Lesnar.

 

Time will tell, I guess.

[dubq 0]

Ok so I finally saw Black Reign vs Harris on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLsNheR7qNI - though I'm sure it'll be taken down soon since it's not posted by TNA themselves).. was Rhodes that fat during his last stint as Goldust?

 

I kind of get a stereotypical face-painted Black Metal vibe from this gimmick.. but it's still really lame.

 

PS - the best part of the video is Sonjay cracking up the entire time and trying to hide his face from the camera.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Is Kurt Angle the first Triple Crown champion to actually hold all three titles at the same time in wrestling history?