NHL Thread - November 2007

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I've watched three Leafs games on Sportsnet Ontario now. Never once have they displayed the score along the top. Only the time remaining. This baffles me. Even before it was commonplace to have the score displayed on screen at all times (97ish?), I only remember the time being on screen during the final minute of the game.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

I've watched three Leafs games on Sportsnet Ontario now. Never once have they displayed the score along the top. Only the time remaining. This baffles me. Even before it was commonplace to have the score displayed on screen at all times (97ish?), I only remember the time being on screen during the final minute of the game.

 

Thats kind of odd. Usually now they will either have a bar or box showing the score and time, or nothing at all. Haven't seen it display just the time in years.

[CanadianChris 0]

I've watched three Leafs games on Sportsnet Ontario now. Never once have they displayed the score along the top. Only the time remaining. This baffles me. Even before it was commonplace to have the score displayed on screen at all times (97ish?), I only remember the time being on screen during the final minute of the game.

 

Thats kind of odd. Usually now they will either have a bar or box showing the score and time, or nothing at all. Haven't seen it display just the time in years.

Seconded. I was watching the game on Sportsnet myself last night and the bar was on the screen every time I flipped over there. Of course, this was the Senators broadcast, so it might be different.

 

Ottawa is off to the best start in NHL history (13-1-0), and set a franchise record with its eighth straight win.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

Eric Lindros going to retire on Thursday

[Nightwing 0]

Eric Lindros going to retire on Thursday

 

What a great waste.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I think the Avs should retire his number.

[Nightwing 0]

Also, it looks like the Preds are staying in Nashville.

 

Does anyone want to do a pool on how long it is before Basillie sues the NHL?

[CanadianChris 0]

I actually don't think he will, because he still wants a team and doesn't want to do anything else to stay on Bettman's shit list.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

This is silly. Nashville is a failed franchise. Even when they had a stacked team with a genuine star in Forsberg, they weren't drawing. This is one of the problems with the NHL, they have a chance to fix a mistake and they instead push for the problem to continue. Playing in front of 12000 people in Nashville diminishes the game.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Basille should just buy the NHL instead.

If Nashville plays in front of 12k, I would consider that good. Considering Chicago (I know their problems) were having attendance problems. Of course, they're an Original Six team and former Stanley Cup champs, so they get a pass.

 

Nashville and Phoenix should move to Canada.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

So, Lindros for the HOF?

 

I say yes, even though I don't like that I find myself on the same page as Bobby Clarke. Hart, Pearson, All-Star, Gold medal, Cup finalist in 97. It's kind of unfortunate that he'll be remembered for the Quebec thing, as his parents were probably more responsible for that than he was. Even so, I think he has the credentials to be accepted.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I can't see his career as anything but a disappointment. The biggest success he was responsible for was another team's pair of Stanley Cups. The Hockey Hall of Fame's standards are fairly lenient, so he'll get in, but me, I can't enshrine him as one of the greatest hockey players in history. One of the biggest what-ifs, though.

 

Who handles the voting for the HHOF? Is it an internal committee, or do sportswriters vote? If the latter, I think a lot of writers are going to be averse to voting him in, especially those who remember his Sault Ste. Marie and Quebec City antics less than fondly. I believe he left New York and Philadelphia on bad terms, as well.

 

EDIT: Whoops, inverted the OHL trade at first; confused Oshawa and the Soo. Anyway, my point is that if character is a criterion, his enshrinement will be in question.

[treble 0]

Someone on TSN brought up that if he hadn't been "ERIC LINDROS" coming into the league with all the hype of being 'The Next One', it might be easier to see him as a HOFer. I don't know, I think I'm on the fence about it.

 

Re: hockey in Nashville. I don't even see the point anymore. It doesn't do the league any good to have a team that doesn't draw well in a market like that. It'd be one thing is they were successful off-the-ice and selling a lot of tickets, but they're the BUTT-end of a lot of jokes (how often do you hear a sportscaster joke about there being a team in *random southern city*?), which is too bad. I understand that the league wants American teams to draw American TV ratings, but is having a team from Nashville play on NBC going to be any worse than having a team from Winnipeg or Hamilton play on there?

 

There are too many teams now that just exist to fill dates in arenas.

[Guest]

Cam Neely's in the HOF, so Lindros has to get in. Has to. If he had retired before leaving Philadelphia, he would have definitely been voted in.

 

Lindros STILL wound up with over a point per game over his career, even after all the attempts he made to restart things, which failed miserably. I'd almost go so far as to say it's a no-brainer that Lindros should get in, considering his prime. That's what matters the most, anyway. Let me put it this way, of all the players that started their NHL career in the 90's, if I had to pick one to have for 3 or 4 years, it's definitely Lindros.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

I don't see Lindros getting into the HOF. Sure, the guy was (arguably) the best player in the league for a few seasons, and then he fell off the face of the earth. A few good seasons and playing out the rest of your career as an injury prone, 2nd or 3rd line player really souldn't get you into the hall unless you were an amazing defensive specialst, which he really wasn't.

 

In terms of the Preds staying in Nashville, I put the blame on Betman here. The team/league really isn't working in this market anymore. If people don't show up when your the best of the best, then how many will show up when you are rebuilding? I would much rather see teams like Nashville and Phoenix move north to markets that will embrace them and the league.

[CanadianChris 0]

It's fairly clear by now that Bettman's vision for the league is a failure. We need someone who understands that the NHL won't be popular everywhere and tries to grow the league in places where teams have good chances to be successful. Problem is, of course, that after the CBA Bettman got for the owners, he'll probably be commissioner for as long as he wants now.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I don't directly have a problem with Bettman's vision of the league, especially since it was being implemented around the time of cable television taking off, and to a lesser extent, the Internet becoming commonplace.

 

What I do have a problem with is his stubbornness about things. I can't count how many times I've said this, but teams failed before in Atlanta and Kansas City. (And let's put an asterisk beside Minnesota). Why would his vision include rebuilding a team there? I can see the idea of getting teams in as many major markets as possible, but (and I've certainly said this before), why not a Columbus, which doesn't have any other big teams root for?

 

Two analogies I'm going to use here to illustrate his reign:

 

1) If a student is struggling in class, the teacher should make more of an effort to help that student succeed. This should not occur to the point of neglect towards the better students of the class.

 

2) If I want to open up a restaurant in St. Catharines, yeah, I'd look for the busiest section. I would not, however, look solely for the cheapest rent, or go into the same location as other restaurants have failed.

 

 

[Nightwing 0]

I think for Bettman, it's a matter of defending his reputation. Nashville an excellent example of teams moving or being created in dismal markets. Someone trying moving to Canada, when Bettman has moved two Northern teams already to Southern States (Winnipeg to Phoenix, Hartford to Carolina), could be interpreted by him as a big "Fuck you, you're wrong"... which, in all honesty, he definitely is, but he doesn't want to hear that. At least, that's how I take it.

 

Chicago gets a pass in part because of bad ownership, being an Original Six team, and also the fact that Chicago has proven to draw before. It just needs a team above horrid to do it, which seems to be happening now. That's mismanagement in a town that will sell out if you give the fans a chance and a team.

 

Lindros in the HoF? I'm torn. King makes a good argument, but I keep looking at him and putting him with some of the other people in there, and I can't. It's not the Hall of Very Good, it's the Hall of Fame. I just find him lacking too much overall.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I think for Bettman, it's a matter of defending his reputation. Nashville an excellent example of teams moving or being created in dismal markets. Someone trying moving to Canada, when Bettman has moved two Northern teams already to Southern States (Winnipeg to Phoenix, Hartford to Carolina), could be interpreted by him as a big "Fuck you, you're wrong"... which, in all honesty, he definitely is, but he doesn't want to hear that. At least, that's how I take it.

 

Chicago gets a pass in part because of bad ownership, being an Original Six team, and also the fact that Chicago has proven to draw before. It just needs a team above horrid to do it, which seems to be happening now. That's mismanagement in a town that will sell out if you give the fans a chance and a team.

 

Don't get me wrong, Bettman hasn't been all bad. Columbus has been successful for the most part, Denver's one of the best markets in the league (not that the end justifies the means), and he did get new ownership in place awfully quickly in Ottawa and Buffalo when they were in trouble.

 

But, like the Lindros argument, no matter what, he's going to be remembered for something that he didn't do. Nightwing's quote above is absolute truth.

[Nightwing 0]

I agree that his Northern market moves have been successful, but he seems more intent on finding inroads to the South which just aren't there. I mean, if he concentrated on getting teams in the North, I think we'd look at him in a much different light.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Give Bettman credit for Anaheim, San Jose, and Columbus. I think those franchises worked out pretty well.

 

I don't think KC is such a bad idea. They actually have winter weather there, they have a brand new arena, and the only competition is the Chiefs (the Royals don't count). KC has a better chance of succeeding than Nashville.

 

Bettman's mistake wasn't expanding to these markets, it was

a) expanding too quickly, diluting the talent pool

b) not pulling the plug once a team became a proven failure.

 

I mean, Florida is a disaster of a franchise, and they've been around for 15 years! At some point you have to get rid of the albatross, and Florida/Nashville are clearly the top two franchise failures. Now the Preds get to rot in Nashville for another 3 years? That's just super.

 

King makes a good argument, but I keep looking at him and putting him with some of the other people in there, and I can't. It's not the Hall of Very Good, it's the Hall of Fame.

 

The Hockey HOF may as well be called the Hall of Very Good. Guys like Bernie Federko are in...I don't think he was ever, say, one of the 5 best players in the league. For a few years, Lindros was. He won a gold medal and a silver medal, he won the Hart Trophy. He didn't have longevity, but he did have impact.

[Nightwing 0]

Give Bettman credit for Anaheim, San Jose, and Columbus. I think those franchises worked out pretty well.

 

Give him credit for Denver and Dallas, too. Though I'd say that Anaheim was a lucky break in that they weren't all too good until Giguere carried the team one year and Disney finally sold them. That's when they really became a threat.

 

Let's judge the success of Bettman-era teams:

 

Relocated Teams

Dallas Stars: A good move, and it did revitalize the team. Points for that.

Colorado Avalanche: Arguably the most successful move, this went into a market that is still pretty strong today.

Phoenix Coyotes: They probably should have just stayed in Winnipeg. It doesn't help that the Jets had never been that good. :\

Carolina Hurricanes: I suppose you could call them a success now, or at least not a failure.

 

Expansion Teams

Columbus Blue Jackets: I'm not sure they're a success... but they aren't a failure. Maybe a little better than the Hurricanes.

Nashville Predators: I can understand the reasoning behind it (Catch autoworkers from Michigan following the factories to Tennessee, catch them with their own team), but it just never worked out, even when they WERE successful.

Tampa Bay Lightning: I'd say they've been just lucky more than anything else. They got bought by a good owner who turned the team into a competitor.

Anaheim Ducks: Similar to Tampa Bay.

San Jose Sharks: A good move which really covers a broad market in Northern California.

Florida Panthers: Seriously, do we need two teams in Florida? I can't see how this seemed like a smart idea.

Atlanta Thrashers: Never been a big draw. Just not a good market for it.

Minnesota Wild: While the North Stars managed to fail, I still think this was pretty much a no-brainer.

 

I mean, a few of those teams are really recent successes (Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Columbus might be the same), while others were just never-weres (Florida, Phoenix, Atlanta). I think the biggest indictment is that it's not expanding to Northern markets that could have done much better, staying with failure markets in the South.

 

I don't think KC is such a bad idea. They actually have winter weather there, they have a brand new arena, and the only competition is the Chiefs (the Royals don't count). KC has a better chance of succeeding than Nashville.

 

Eh, I think it's better to go for a Northern team. Hamilton and Winnipeg are great choices. Otherwise, a completely uncontested market (Like Las Vegas) would probably be a good choice.

 

Bettman's mistake wasn't expanding to these markets, it was

a) expanding too quickly, diluting the talent pool.

b) not pulling the plug once a team became a proven failure.

 

You're right on both counts, though I think we've adapted to a) while b) is so painfully obvious.

 

I mean, Florida is a disaster of a franchise, and they've been around for 15 years! At some point you have to get rid of the albatross, and Florida/Nashville are clearly the top two franchise failures. Now the Preds get to rot in Nashville for another 3 years? That's just super.

 

After re-reading the terms, there's a much more likely chance that they'll move now with that contract in place. There's nothing in it that holds them in Nashville against relocation.

 

The Hockey HOF may as well be called the Hall of Very Good. Guys like Bernie Federko are in...I don't think he was ever, say, one of the 5 best players in the league. For a few years, Lindros was. He won a gold medal and a silver medal, he won the Hart Trophy. He didn't have longevity, but he did have impact.

 

Eh... I can understand where you're coming from, but Federko was ridiculously consistent, while Lindros (even though it was due to injuries) wasn't. Lindros had one 100+ points season, while Federko had 4 and was consistently in the 80-90 point range throughout his career. The same can't be said for Lindros, who only had 3 80+ points seasons and none of them consecutive. At the very least, Federko's stats would dictate that he deserves a spot. I don't think Lindros' play or stats dictate a spot. Even if its due to injuries, I don't think you can ignore his inconsistency throughout his career. While he might have been "It" for a little while, Federko's incredible consistency would warrant more of a spot than Lindros' short-lived prime.

 

Honestly, at some point you do have to change it back from the Hall of Very Good back to the Hall of Fame. I think this is a better time than any to do it.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

It's almost fitting that the HHOF lets anyone in. This is the sport that until recently, rewarded you for a tie.

 

How much credit does Bettman deserve for green-lighting a Denver move? It's practically common sense that hockey will flourish there, or anywhere, if the team comes off the bus as the best team in the league. However, it does help that there's a little bit of a hockey culture out there, though not as much as New England and the midwest. Had Quebec City been retained, there would've been a Colorado Avalanche sooner or later, anyway, in lieu of Atlanta or Nashville.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Czech, I remember you saying speculating this, but I don't recall anything more than that: Sunday's Hawks game, when they host the Red Wings, will be televised locally. Just announced on TSN. Said Dave Hodge "It will feature colour. It will feature instant replay. We think high definition will be a work in progress."

[CanadianChris 0]

Funny anecdote (and pretty telling) about Brent Sutter, from Chris Stevenson of the Ottawa Sun: On a recent road trip, he sent an assistant coach in to do a bed check on Martin Brodeur! Someone needs to tell him he's not coaching junior anymore.

 

Looks like this is the letdown game for the Senators. Three goals in a six-minute span for Washington in the second, and it's 3-1 after two.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

The B's were getting booed a little during that 5-on-3, which wasn't right. The B's weren't undisciplined or playing poorly, Carey Price and the Habs D were just, well, as Miller put it, unflappable.

 

I didn't see it (and nor did the Habs Michael Ryder, who asked Pierre McGuire at ice level), but a returning-to-the-ice Francis Bouillon knocked Aaron Ward out. He's being stretchered out.

 

Edit: Replay. Can't really be blamed on anyone. Ward circled back as Bouillon skated back into his zone. Ward's actually up and skating off, with assistance, instead of on a gurney.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

Czech, I remember you saying speculating this, but I don't recall anything more than that: Sunday's Hawks game, when they host the Red Wings, will be televised locally. Just announced on TSN. Said Dave Hodge "It will feature colour. It will feature instant replay. We think high definition will be a work in progress."

Yeah, it's going to be a gala affair. Live music at the United Center and stuff. Actually, Comcast has televised home games locally before: last year they were contractually obligated to air 41 games, and with two road games being shown nationally, they had to pick up two home games, so this is more of a symbolic thing to show that the new leadership is committed to getting the team into the 20th century, let alone the 21st. It'll be the first of only seven due to Comcast already having programming scheduled, but my question is this: why do they have to do business with just Comcast? Why not fit a few on channel 26 or channel 50? They're not airing anything of consequence. Maybe next year, they can get some games on WGN as well, which probably reaches more homes than Versus does.

[the max 0]

The B's were getting booed a little during that 5-on-3, which wasn't right. The B's weren't undisciplined or playing poorly, Carey Price and the Habs D were just, well, as Miller put it, unflappable.

 

It's hard to be flapped when you basically don't have to move to kill off a two minute 5-on-3.

 

They were getting booed for two reasons:

 

1- The building had more Habs fans in it than Bruins fans.

2- They were standing there watching whoever had the puck instead of moving around and trying to open shooting lanes. Making the defense move on powerplays is essential and it's something that the Bruins cannot grasp.

 

This team needs a finisher. Badly.

[cd213 0]

Now if only the Rangers can score like they did tonight every night. With the defense they have, they should be really, really good. I'm sure no one thought they would be this good on defense with all the youngsters they have. Mark Stall is playing great, Girardi is awesome. Avery is the man and the Rangers need to make sure they can keep him after the season. He is a fan favorite and great in the locker room.

[treble 0]

Looks like this is the letdown game for the Senators. Three goals in a six-minute span for Washington in the second, and it's 3-1 after two.

I think this makes the Sens 0-2-2 in games I've been to. I should go more often.