MMA Comments that Don't Warrant a Thread

[Lei Tong 0]

-Pancrase went full MMA in 1999, w/the gloves and rules very close to PRIDE's.

 

- Of course Kondo has a chance. A fight can be decided in a single moment, and when you have the KO power of Kondo, all you need is a single moment. And I'm rooting for Kondo because I've liked him for a long time, while never being a fan of SIlva's in particular.

 

-I don't doubt Wanderlei's blackbelt was earned, but I don't think it's a true indicator of how his skills will apply to MMA. There are cases like Baret Yoshida, only a purple belt yet with a ground game on par with the best in the world, and happenings like black belt Alexandre Ferreira getting tapped by Chris Haseman & Hiromitsu Kanehara. Overall, while he's shown himself to be able to handle himself on the ground, I don't think his ground game has been proven yet to pose more as much a threat as more dangerous grapplers in his division. Also, although Vitor was prematurely promoted to black belt for the wrong reasons, I think he's shown an overall betetr ground game than Wand's.

 

- Fedor's submission skills and ground game from his back are... unrefined, and that's being nice. He gave up position like it was his job vs. Ricardo Arona, giving him his back at only a minute or two into the fight. And his submission application is equally troublesome, as he tends to try to crank his moves to make up for shoddy technique, which also leads him to sacrifice position should he fail, which is very likely. However, I'd say his has overall more submission knowledge than Coleman, yet MC Hammer is more safe in his application. His saving grace is that he can get out of bad situations well.

 

- On a similar subject, I'm pretty sure Coleman WILL put Fedor on his back, and force him to work from there for much of the fight. However, Coleman will gas, and Fedor will sprawl & brawl late for a JD.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

In response to the last post, Coleman beat Frye by decision, not rear naked choke.

Make that two blown spots for me in this thread. Thanks for correcting me on that.

 

My point still stands about Coleman's submisions. He has submited fighters before with chokes, along with the aformentioned Coleman Crank.

 

L&P is Lay and Pray.

Is that the same thing as Sprawl and Brawl? I can't keep all of these MMA rhyming styles in order.

 

Regardless, I think it's a stretch to call Coleman's style anything but Ground and Pound.

 

Pancrase went full MMA in 1999, w/the gloves and rules very close to PRIDE's.

Ah, that makes sense. Does that include striking on the mat?

 

Of course Kondo has a chance. A fight can be decided in a single moment, and when you have the KO power of Kondo, all you need is a single moment. And I'm rooting for Kondo because I've liked him for a long time, while never being a fan of SIlva's in particular.

PRIDE is rooting for him, too, since they've wanted a native to beat Silva ever since he smoked Sakuraba.

 

I don't doubt Wanderlei's blackbelt was earned, but I don't think it's a true indicator of how his skills will apply to MMA. There are cases like Baret Yoshida, only a purple belt yet with a ground game on par with the best in the world, and happenings like black belt Alexandre Ferreira getting tapped by Chris Haseman & Hiromitsu Kanehara. Overall, while he's shown himself to be able to handle himself on the ground, I don't think his ground game has been proven yet to pose more as much a threat as more dangerous grapplers in his division.

Agreed there. Silva's skill on the mat is finishing off his opponents after he's cleaned their clocks with strikes, and playing defense when put on his back.

 

Also, although Vitor was prematurely promoted to black belt for the wrong reasons, I think he's shown an overall betetr ground game than Wand's.

Really? I haven't seen too much of Vitor's recent fights, but his ground game never impressed me as much as Silva's. Has he come that far?

 

Fedor's submission skills and ground game from his back are... unrefined, and that's being nice. He gave up position like it was his job vs. Ricardo Arona, giving him his back at only a minute or two into the fight. And his submission application is equally troublesome, as he tends to try to crank his moves to make up for shoddy technique, which also leads him to sacrifice position should he fail, which is very likely. However, I'd say his has overall more submission knowledge than Coleman, yet MC Hammer is more safe in his application. His saving grace is that he can get out of bad situations well.

That description sounds right, judging from the Fedor fights I've seen. He isn't skilled at submisions, but they can work out for him on occasion.

 

On a similar subject, I'm pretty sure Coleman WILL put Fedor on his back, and force him to work from there for much of the fight. However, Coleman will gas, and Fedor will sprawl & brawl late for a JD.

You don't think Fedor can knock him out? I'd think that once Coleman gases, Fedor can put him on *his* back and pound him into a pulp.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Lay and Pray = Taking someone down and doing nothing in their guard. Just resting your head on their stomach. Usually done by wrestlers who rely on Ground and Pound.

 

Spawl and Brawl = avoiding takedowns and keeping the fight standing. Usually done by standup fighters, Cro Cop, for example.

 

On a Fedor note, Fedor will give his back if it means he can get up. The guy has freaky balance, though it will be interesting to see if Coleman can keep him down.

[the pinjockey 0]

 

There is the poster for Total Elimination. Now the cynic in me would say they only put four on the poster, because they have no idea who else is fighting between injuries and people pulling out.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

"1.Waterman 2.Randleman 3.Ninja 4.Takahashi Yoshiki"

 

I got this off of the UG, someone says this is from the Japanese pride site

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Official:

Emelianenko Fedor,

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira,

Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic,

Stefan "Blitz" Leko,

Sentoryu (Henry Miller),

Heath Herring,

Mark Coleman,

Giant Silva,

Hiro Yokoi,

Sergei Kharitonov,

Yoshiki Takahashi,

Kevin Randleman,

Ron Waterman,

Murillo Ninja

 

Rumoured matches (according to Meltzer, Zack and Maxfighintg)

 

Leko vs. Ninja,

Herring vs. Waterman

Silva vs. Kharitonov

Nogueira v. Yokoi

Fedor v. Coleman

Cro Cop v. Randleman

[the pinjockey 0]

Is anyone else getting a kick out of going to the Sherdog boards and seeing them killing themselves and each other about the announcement not being made yet?

 

"FUCK PRIDE"

"FUCK YOU, UFC NUTHUGGER"

"FUCK YOU PRIDE NUTHUGGER"

 

Lather, rinse, repeat for about 30 threads

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That's why I don't spend a lot of time over at the Sherdog Messageboards. I praised them once, but I was naive and mistook their stupidity for enthusiasm. All they really have going for them there is the fighter forum, which I frequent about once a week.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Sankei Sports reports that Don Frye will face Yoshiki Takahashi in the first round of the PRIDE Heavyweight GP on April 25th.

 

PRIDE is expected to release their full GP line-up later today

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Six first-round matchups for the PRIDE Heavyweight GP to be official (some have already been announced) by next week:

Rodrigo 'Minotauro' Nogueira vs. Hirotaka Yokoi

 

Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic vs. Kevin Randleman

 

Fedor Emelianenko vs. Mark Coleman

 

Murilo 'Ninja' Rua vs. Sergei Kharitonov

 

Heath Herring vs. Ron Waterman

 

Don Frye vs. Yoshiki Takahashi

 

 

Ricardo Arona vs. Gan McGee is expected to be announced as an alternate matchup.

 

These same sources also say that Stefan Leko will be matched up against either 'Giant' Silva or Sentoryu.

 

DSE/PRIDE is also still trying to sign a big-name Japanese fighter (supposedly Naoya Ogawa) to the GP, and will match him up against either Giant Silva or Sentoryu as well

 

(credit UG)

[AmericanDragon 0]

Lesnar should run in on Waterman's fight and F5 Herring.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

DSE/PRIDE is also still trying to sign a big-name Japanese fighter (supposedly Naoya Ogawa) to the GP, and will match him up against either Giant Silva or Sentoryu as well

Is Ogowa even a big name anymore? He's been stuck in Zero One (The NWA-TNA of Puroresu?) for a few years now, so I can't think his stock is that high anymore. Besides, weren't all of his MMA fights worked? I know he won the Silver Medal in Judo, but that's not enough to win an MMA fight, even against a choad like Giant Silva.

 

Why isn't Kazuhiro Nakamura participating? They claimed that every fight at Inferno was supposed to be "qualifying" for the GP, and every fighter who won there has been added to the GP other than Nakamura (and Yamamoto, but his "win" wasn't really a win). If they want a Japanese Judo fighter, I think most sensible people would go with Nakamura over Ogowa any day of the weak.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Zach.com has confirmed that Ogowa is signed for the GP, which means they've filled all the spots.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Ogawa is the Yoshida in this tournament, in more ways than one.

 

I am disappointed that he was selected, as there should certainly be someone better, but as long as it makes for an entertaining match (in one way or another) I won't mind. When it effects the quarter-finals, then there is a problem.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The difference is that not all of Yoshida's MMA fights prior to the Middleweight tournament were worked, while all of Ogawa's fights (to my knowledge) have been works.

 

I guess it'll provide for an entertaining match, but it kind of hurts the entertainment value for me when I'm watching an MMA fight to know that it's worked. If I wanted to see worked shoots, I'd watch UWFi, not something that bills itself as full MMA. Part of the enjoyment is knowing that you're watching an actual competition between competitors, which is different from the enjoyment I get from good pro-wrestling matches.

 

I guess my question still is, if they wanted a "Yoshida" type for this tournament, why the hell not Nakamura (Kazuhiro, not Shinsuke)? He isn't as big a name as Ogawa, but he has actual MMA skill which makes him far more value to the company, long term, than Ogawa.

 

Instead of paying someone who pretends to be a fighter work your tournament in pretend fights, why not use an actual fighter who wins actual fights?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The difference is that not all of Yoshida's MMA fights prior to the Middleweight tournament were worked, while all of Ogawa's fights (to my knowledge) have been works.

 

There were A LOT of people saying that Yoshida's fight against Frye was worked, that his fight vs. Gracie was a sham because of the ending, and even his fight against Tamura had a worked finish. Many were suspecting that Yoshida would drop out of the tournament even if he won - I am hearing the exact same stuff about Ogawa. The Yoshida stuff only sounds silly after the Silva match where he proved himself to the majority of the naysayers. I'm not defending Ogawa or his matches, I am just saying that they are similar in that regard.

 

I guess it'll provide for an entertaining match, but it kind of hurts the entertainment value for me when I'm watching an MMA fight to know that it's worked.

 

PRIDE hasn't had a work in a long while, I don't think they'd work any of the matches in this tournament. Give Ogawa a really easy opponent? Yes. Work it? No. Ultimately, you can't work a tournament that Nogueira, Cro Cop, and Fedor are in.

[Lei Tong 0]

Personally, I think Silva carried Yoshida a bit in that match, but that's me. Also, it should be noted that Tamura & Silva fought pretty incharacterstic fights against him, but whatever.

 

Anyways,people should start keeping an eye on Hawaii's Rumble on the Rock promotion. They had an awesome 4th card, with Bj penn vs. Takanori Gomi, Renato Verrisimo vs. Gil Castillo, & Dennis Hallman vs. Ray "Brada" Cooper. They've always had some pretty good fighters near the top of their cards, and their latest show keeps that tradition, with Vladimir Matyushenko vs. Wesley Correira in the main event, with matt Lindland vs. Tony Frykland also anounced for the card.

[Guest sean pyro]

www.adcombat.com

 

Ricardo Arona - Bound for PRIDE?

Submitted by: Marcello Tetel

Posted On 04/13/2004

 

 

Although rumours are flying in all directions, BTT's Ricardo Arona will most likely not participate in the upcoming Pride GP.

 

Two weeks ago, reports surfaced that Arona could be a 2nd representative for Brazilian Top Team among heavyweights in the Pride GP, but shortly after it was learned that DSE wanted to avoid having 2 representatives from the same team.

 

Then last week Arona was reportedly signed to fight an alternate bout in the GP. This also is very hard to believe since the same problem of 2 representatives from the same team could occur if someone gets hurt in the process.

 

At this team, it seems that the return of Ricardo Arona to PRIDE wil lsee him facing Quinton 'Rampage' Jackson. PRIDE may see this as a number one contender match, with the winner facing Pride Middle Weight Champion Vanderlei Silva next summer. Although nothing is confirmed, this is the latest direction for Arona.

[the pinjockey 0]

Apparently the card has been released

From puroresupower.com

 

Fedor - Coleman

CroCop - Randleman

Nog - Yokoi

Herring - Takahashi

Ogawa - Leko

Silva - Sentoryu

Kharatonov - Ninja

Gan McGee - Waterman

 

McGee-Waterman is listed as an alternative match, but there are only 7 other matches listed. So either 2 people will be pulled out of their ass or that is the 8th match.

 

Looking into it, it could be possible that they will throw a different 8th match in there as the Pride site only has the first 7 matches up.

[Guest NCJ]

The Heavyweight GP better have Fedor, Mirko, or Nog fight each other to keep any interest for me. The only matches I think could be interesting in the first round are Coleman vs Fedor and Randelman vs Mirko. While Coleman and Randelman are rightfully the heavy underdogs, they both present their oppnents with the one thing they really haven't faced. A great wrestler. If they can avoid gassing, and Randleman dosen't do something totally stupid like try to stand with Mirko they both have more of a chance than most people think. I still think they both will lose, but those two matches could be very interesting.

 

As far as Kondo goes don't sleep on him. He isn't the normal chump that Pride throws at Silva. In Pancrase I saw him knock Frank Shamrock out cold with an open palm strike that sent him through the ropes. He is fast, has no fear, and is used to fighting bigger fighters. He took Josh Barnett to a decision a year or two ago. I know why he is the underdog, but he is easily the toughest test that Silva has faced since winning the title. In pride right now I would only rank Jackson, Arona, and Henderson as a challenger as worthy as Kondo.

[AmericanDragon 0]

In Pancrase I saw him knock Frank Shamrock out cold with an open palm strike that sent him through the ropes. He took Josh Barnett to a decision a year or two ago.

I saw the clip once and I thought it was a high kick that sent Frank through the ropes. Oh yeah, he lost to Barnett from a rear naked choke, not a decision. Look through his record, most of his losses came from rear naked chokes or decisions.

[Guest NCJ]

I have the match with Shamrock on tape it was back in 94 or 96 I believe. It might be a high kick, but I really thought it was an open palm strike. At that time Pancrase didn't allow closed fists. I do know that he rocked Frank multiple time in that match with his hands. It wasn't a flash knockdown at all. In fact it was a great fight that Frank dominated for the first few minutes then he was totally dominated by Kondo. As far as his loss to Barnett you are probably right. I apologize. Still his record is impressive and he has fought more than a few legit Heavyweights. I think this fight could be very interesting.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fedor - Coleman

 

Solid match IMO. I love symbolic matches and this has it up the yin yang. We might see a side of Fedor that hasn't really been tested in the Pride ring, or we might see Coleman get KTFO.

 

CroCop - Randleman

 

Randleman shouldn't really be in this tournament, but it's a nice test for Cro Cop to see if he can (a)avoid the takedown and (b)get up after being taken down. Randleman will be forced to work on the ground because you know the refs will be standing the fight up the momment the fight gets inactive.

 

Nog - Yokoi

 

Nog squash! Always fun to watch the master in his craft do his thing. Whether or not Yokoi is really good or really bad won't matter, Nog brings it either way.

 

Herring - Takahashi

 

The one fight that I'm not really, really looking forward to. Hopefully Herring will bump up his game and put on a good fight to prove he belongs in the 2nd round.

 

Ogawa - Leko

 

Whooo Hooo!~ LeK-O baby! Make it happen!

 

Silva - Sentoryu

 

Freak show match, neither deserves to be in the second round, but they'll make it interesting, to say the least. It'll be a nice change of pace, which is the best I can say for it.

 

Kharatonov - Ninja

 

This is probably the match I am most looking forward to. I don't know this Kharatonov feller, but Ninja is always fun to watch and it should be a really good match.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Ninja-Kharitanov and Fedor-Coleman are the matches I'm most looking forward to. I enjoy watching Ninja more than Shogun, but he seems the more natural heavyweight in the family. I'm not complaining though. It's really great to have eight matches of this sort of calibre, I mean, not all are great, but this has HYPE written all over it, as it's meant to pump up the fans for the next show. I feel the same way for this as I did as a kid watching the older Royal Rumbles, as odd as that may sound. A sixteen man tournament is insane, and when you have like only two matches that will be weak, toss in the fact that there will be a great MW match thrown on there, and this card will definitely be the best of the year so far.

 

Kharitanov is an animal, I mean sure, he only fought LA Giant, but he used to roll with Fedor at Russian Top Team so you know he has game. He's aggressive, with good takedowns, submissions, and technically sound standup. Ninja Rua is Murilo 'Ninja' Rua, that's all you need to know. How a man that looks exactly like Adam Sandler, gut and all, can have the best cardio in the sport beats me, but that's just how he is.

 

Fedor-Coleman is probably the main event, and unlike Gary-Fedor, this is the REAL changing of the guard, although I personally consider Igor fighter of the first GP, but whatever.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Here's how Zach posted the card:

 

1. Silva - Sentoryu

2. Kharatonov - Ninja

3. Herring - Takahashi

4. Fedor - Coleman

5. Nog - Yokoi

6. Cro Cop - Randleman

7. Ogawa - Leko

 

Of course, this doesn't look like it could be the final card (what with there only being seven fights) but seems logical to book Ogawa in the main as he's the native expected to draw the big ratings.

 

The good news is that if this order is meant to reflect the structure of the brackets, than we're going to get Cro Cop/Noguiera and Herring/Fedor in round 2.

 

I'm not sure what to expect from Ogawa/Leko. My first impression is to assume that Leko will take a dive, but I'm not sure what good that would do as it would just put Ogawa into round 2 against another fighter he can't beat. My guess is that Ogawa is getting payed big money to fight on this show, and will simply get creamed by Leko, which is fine by me.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

This should probably be its own thread, but whatever.....

 

*K-1 announced today that they have officially signed Mike Tyson for three fights with the Japanese based promotion. Tyson signed on 4/11 and will be in attendance, but not fighting at K-1's "Battle at the Bellagio II" show on 4/30 in Las Vegas. It is believed that Tyson's first fight with the group will be around 7/31. Due to visa issues, Tyson will not be fighting in Japan. K-1 is looking at his first fight to take place at either Madison Square Garden in New York or the Staples Center in Los Angeles.

 

-liveaudiowrestling.com

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I predict he'll never fight.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It sorta kills the purpose of having Tyson in K-1 if he can't go to Japan to fight. I guess they can make the money back through TV, but still, it's not the same effect. I was watching some 'classic' tyson and goddamn was he a fucking monster in the ring. I think he'll fight for them; it'll be interesting to see who they put him up against.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Well, the "Dream Match" with Sapp isn't really a dream match anywhere in the world other than Japan, so I'm guessing they either save that until they resolve Tyson's visa problems or the fight doesn't happen at all.

 

If the fight vs. Sapp does happen, I'm not sure what K1 gains in the long run. The fight will draw a huge gate and high rating, but Sapp really has no chance of winning, and he's their meal ticket.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Seeing as how I am not that knowledgable when it comes to the straight up stand up game, what do you think of Tyson's chances? If you go by the "this fighter beat this fighter so he has also beaten this fighter" line of thinking, well, if he beat Sapp, which he probably would, than he can beat Hoost. Silly, but it's not the same as MMA. I mean really, I know technically kickboxers are more skilled on their feet, but is there anyone with the sheer power that Tyson has, or can take it, or anyone that can knock him out? I am guessing that K-1's top guy from what I can tell, Bonjavski, would probably get KTFO. Correct me if I'm wrong folks.