Guest GenerationNever Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 RVD strangely won the IC title after nearly beating Taker on a previous RAW. I also predicted the main event of KOTR, Taker/HHH, right after the ending of the Taker/RVD match. I believe RVD was "stuck" with the IC title to keep him out of the main events for the moment. HHH sure knows how to play the political game.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 At least someone appears to have a mind in their head. Brian, I salute you. -Shiro
Guest Flyboy Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 they will say anything to support the argument, I can back them up with Jericho, Angle a bit, but saying RVD is just grasping at straws. I don't know... Anyone remember an "accident" on Smackdown after Hunter gets back... and... RVD's pops aren't as loud! *gasps* How can THAT be?!
Guest JaKyL25 Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Hell, I can see how HHH held down RVD moreso than he did Angle even. Granted, it's all circumstantial evidence, but I think it's beyond a reasonable doubt. Your opinions may differ. December 18, 2001: Monday Night Raw Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, Undisputed Title match Van Dam comes EVER so close to pinning Jericho for the title, and actually WINS by DQ, something that not even Rock, Austin, Big Show, or Angle could accomplish. The events of the DQ are so screwy that the crowd doesn't really understand what has happened, thinks RVD has won the title, and pops HUGE. December 21, 2001: SmackDown! Chris Jericho & Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam & The Rock(?) Rob Van Dam pins Chris Jericho to win this match. Announcers make a big deal about how Rob has pinned the Undisputed Champion. Over the next few weeks, the announcers play up Rob's unfinished business with Jericho. Rob faces people such as Lance Storm, who was in Jericho's locker room when Rob came looking for Y2J, and defeats them pretty handily. It's obviously building to Y2J vs. RVD at the Rumble, which is one of the best PPVs to push a new star to a title match, simply because people will buy the PPV for the Rumble anyway. January 7, 2001: Monday Night Raw Triple H returns Triple H made his big return this night in Madison Square Garden. Rob Van Dam wrestles in the opening match. No mention is made of his feud with Jericho tonight, nor is it ever mentioned again. The Rumble title match would end up going to The Rock. Triple H would win the Royal Rumble to get a shot at Jericho at the PPV. Along the way, he eliminates RVD, who comes in at #30, within a minute by way of Pedigree followed by toss over the top rope. Van Dam is a complete non-factor in the Rumble, when based on past history with the champion, not to mention the rabid crowd response, he should have been AT LEAST in the Final Four, IMO. Triple H would go on to win the Undisputed Title at WrestleMania. Rob Van Dam would go on to feud with Goldust, followed by an IC title win at WrestleMania. The conclusion I draw from these facts, especially in light of the information that Stephanie is head writer, is that HHH caused Rob Van Dam to be buried in the mid-card to the point that only now, almost 6 months later, is he beginning to escape. But at least he's still better off than Chris Jericho.
Guest MrRant Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 I will only point out the fact that Vince then has lost control and the only thing that will straighten him up is MASSIVE merchandise sales for RVD, like SCSA levels when he hit it big.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 First off: Editing Pops. I don't buy pops on taped shows. Too much oppertunity to tamper. Second: I'm a big RVD mark, but I refuse to buy into this 'conspiracy theory' BS. RVD was in a storyline with Jericho. Yup. Triple H was coming back. As a face. The WWF has dropped storylines before without any sort of blowoff, so why is that unusual? Ohh..I see..it's because The Devil Himself returned that night! God knows, HHH is responsible for everything bad ever happening in the WWF. Mmhmm. I'm tempted more to chalk it up to stupidity on the writing staff's part, than some GRAND CONSPIRACY to screw over Jericho and RVD by Steph and The Devil Himself. If we look closely enough, Jericho got invoved with The Rock during Jan/RR, Steve Austin during Feb/NWO, and THEN Triple H at WM. Holy crap, guess what? He was involved with Austin and Rocky before he was with RVD! OMG! Triple H must have screwed THEM over too! Conspiracy! Conspiracy! I'll chalk it up to inept booking/writing. Maybe Vince wasn't ready for an RVD/Jericho feud just yet. He probably wasn't 'established' enough for them. As much as people bitch about Angle being 'held down', he's had a hell of a lot more title reigns of any sort than RVD has, and he was in wrestling a lot later. Angle was their 'golden boy', so it was allright for them to give him the gold. But not RVD. No, I don't blame Triple H. I blame the WWF itself.
Guest Kotzenjunge Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Can't Vince be a dick to Stephanie a la 1999 in real life like he was in character? You know... "It's just... business." Abandon any ideas of satisfying people, because what is good for business needs to be done. What is being done now is not good for business. Any successful general, CEO, human in general is successful because they weigh and use accordingly every single option and resource. For Vince to give up on Russo immediately is going against this.
Guest LesnarLunatic Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Triple H blows as a babyface, that's pretty much a proven fact. He's as fucking dry as the Sahara. He has NEVER drawn a dime. The Wrestlemania that he main evented was the lowest rated Wrestlemania since WM13! HHH can only be associated with ratings if he is wrestling the Rock. A PPV main event of the Rock being shown watching porno movies would draw. Everybody against the Rock would get ratings. HHH getting ratings against Rock is no surprise. HHH is a plague on the WWF. HHH must have a grudge against Russo. Russo did job Triple H to Vince McMahon for the title in 1999. Triple H isn't working for the good of the company, he is merely working for the good of himself. I hope Triple H's last match this year is on Sunday. I could live without hearing Triple H ever come out again. He never drew. He only leeched his heat off Rock, Foley, Austin and others.
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 What people never expand upon with their "January 20" conspiracy crap is what would have happened had they done RVD-Jericho at RR. There are 4 possible outcomes: 1. Jericho wins clean. This would have been a pretty big momentum killer for RVD, and it's not like beating RVD would be a major notch in Jericho's belt or something. Hell, they had already feuded during the Invasion angle. 2. Jericho cheats to win. Weren't people complaining about him cheating against midcarders? Well that's what would have happened here. Sure, there was some interference in the match with the Rock, but that's a whole other story. Getting a semi-tainted win over the Rock is better than a clean one over RVD. 3. RVD wins clean. A retarded booking idea, plain and simple. 4. RVD cheats to win. Makes no sense as a face for him to do so, and once again it would be stupid to have him win the title. So basically, Jericho benifited more by fighting and beating the Rock (his 3rd big win over the Rock on PPV no less) than he would have by fighting midcarder RVD.
Guest GenerationNever Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 HHH was only over as heel because Foley put him over as the man who ended his career and he was given a monster push.
Guest JaKyL25 Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 I don't buy pops on taped shows. Too much oppertunity to tamper. None of the shows where I mentioned that RVD got a pop were pre-taped. The Raw where he beat Jericho by DQ was the last live WWF broadcast until January 7. Although you are right about some things, and I don't completely blame HHH either. The blame ultimately lies with Vince McMahon. But still, like you said, it's just stupidity on the part of the writing staff. And who is head writer? Stephanie McMahon, the girlfriend of HHH. I really didn't buy into all of these theorys myself until Judgment Day, where HHH went over Jericho in the HitC match, which helped absolutely NOBODY but HHH, and even that is arguable. I was so sure that these people on the internet were wrong, and that Helmsley really does have this tremendous passion for the business. I was sure he'd do the right thing and put Jericho over at Judgment Day. But he didn't. Any argument of "he doesn't book the matches" is incorrect in my eyes, because he's dating Stephanie. If she booked him to win without his approval, I'm almost certain he could have talked her out of it. But he didn't. Since then I've dabbled in HHHate, sometimes to ludicrous degrees. I'm willing to give him another chance, though. If he doesn't win the Undisputed Title on Sunday, I'll forgive him (for now). HHH over Taker is a far worse choice for business on practically every level. A) It further devalues the Undisputed Title (4 PPVs, 4 New Champs) B) RVD vs. Taker at Summerslam makes SO MUCH SENSE, while HHH vs. ANYONE at Summerslam makes no sense. C) I'm almost not even believing I'm saying this, but Taker has been far more entertaining and putting on far better matches than HHH lately. Taker vs. RVD, Taker vs. Orton, and his angle with the Hardyz have been fairly decent television. HHH has done nothing but randomly alternate between squashing midcarders and jobbing to them without putting them over. D) Triple H is injured, and needs more time off to rehab or have surgery. So, bottom line is that HHH MUST JOB this Sunday to regain my respect. Not that he really cares or anything, but still. HHH has been my least favorite wrestler once before (Leader of DX run in 98), and he's pretty damn close to winning that spot again.
Guest SuperTonyJaymz Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 The funny thing is, if it was heyman, rvd, or whoever who had told Vince to get rid of Russo(which it may be because the sheets really dont know) than they would be applouded. But because the Devil himself, mr. Levsgue may have done it, than its wrong cause suddenly smarks everywhere love Russo. Don't hate the game..hate hypocrites.
Guest JaKyL25 Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 I agree that HHHate is unwarranted for the most part about the Russo thing because: A) We don't know for certain that HHH and Steph were the ones to do it. and B) Even if they were, who KNOWS what kinds of ideas Russo was pushing? HHH and Steph probably did the right thing if Russo was trying to push more juvenile humor and manic swerves here, there, and everywhere. The only thing I dislike about the situation as far as HHH is concerned is that he was even in the POSITION where insiders feel that he may have been a factor. Workers should not be in the position to be making these kinds of creative decisions, IMO.
Guest BoboBrazil Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 B) Even if they were, who KNOWS what kinds of ideas Russo was pushing? HHH and Steph probably did the right thing if Russo was trying to push more juvenile humor and manic swerves here, there, and everywhere. It can't be worse than the World Champion(at the time) Jericho being Stephanie's bitch and running out to get her hand lotion or walking HHH's dog. It can't be worse than Stephanie coming in the ring and singing for 15 minutes as the last segment of a show.
Guest Angle-plex Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 I was happy about Russo coming in. At least he would have had some different ideas.
Guest TheMikeSC Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Sorry. The fact that HHH had anything to do with his removal WHATSOEVER is sickening. Why not Chavo Jr? Why not Mark Henry? HHH hasn't drawn a fucking dime.>>> At the risk of infuriating you, remember that Russo basically accelerated the demise of WCW by several years. At the very least, HHH hasn't actively killed WWE. Russo actively killed WCW. <<<He's nothing more than a wrestler. If this were any sensible company, Trip would be rubbing the scrapes on his roided ass from hitting the ground so hard after being thrown from the building.>>> And if it were a sensible company, they wouldn't have hired a guy like Russo that has NEVER drawn squat when given total power and who no other company wants to deal with. But, clearly, they AREN'T a sensible company. <<<The message to Trip is, GET OUT AND STAY OUT. >>> I'll take him over Russo. And Bischoff. And GB. And Scott Steiner. And not think twice about it. -=Mike
Guest TheMikeSC Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 It can't be worse than the World Champion(at the time) Jericho being Stephanie's bitch and running out to get her hand lotion or walking HHH's dog. It can't be worse than Stephanie coming in the ring and singing for 15 minutes as the last segment of a show. >>> Man, amazing how little people remember of Russo's work, isn't it? To give you a hint, he can ALWAYS "be worse" than the current situation. He normally IS worse. -=Mike
Guest JaKyL25 Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 TheMikeSC, I completely agree. People DO forget how horribly bad Russo can be. At least with the current booking the WM main event was watchable. Russo would have made the match a "Loser eats the dog's crap" match, or worse, actually have INSERTED Stephanie into the WrestleMania main event. At least this way she was only the focus point, and not an actual participant. It can't be worse than Stephanie coming in the ring and singing for 15 minutes as the last segment of a show. >>> And for what it's worth, "The Wind Beneath Our Ring" was A-OK in my book. The whole segment was hilarious, and Angle got to humiliate a group of people ALMOST as large as HHH does today!
Guest Incandenza Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 People here are all too willing to forget the fact that Russo has done more bad than good (and is one of the people responsible for the demise of the WCW) in order to find yet another reason to hate on Triple H. If Hunter really was responsible for the Russo demotion, then allow me to be the first person to suck his steroid-shriveled cock as a show of gratitude.
Guest Big McLargeHuge Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 IMO, this is the best thing HHH and Steph have done in their entire careers, it it's true.
Guest Incandenza Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 IMO, this is the best thing HHH and Steph have done in their entire careers, it it's true. A-fucking-men. This almost makes up for destroying Jericho's credibility and putting on all those crappy matches he's had since his return. Almost.
Guest Dangerous A Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 After reading the last page or so of posts, it rejuvenates my faith in the board. It's nice to see people take a rational stance to RAMPANT NET SPECULATION!! Thank you Brian for starting with the level headed thoughts. And it continued with El Psycho Diablo and with Big McLarge and Incadenza. This JaKyl25 person also seems to have a thought about him. Now if tommorrow HHH wins the belt clean off of Taker and still takes his time off for surgery, then I, along with the HHHaters will probrably spew venom on this board like you have never seen. I will never join the HHHaters officially cause I do like to distinguish between facts and RAMPANT NET SPECULATION!
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 What I'm trying to figure out is when HHH eliminated RVD from the Rumble because I could have sworn that Booker T was #30 and HE eliminated RVD... Man, like I've said before, I'm not an HHH fan, but he isn't the cause for EVERYTHING wrong with this company...
Guest Dangerous A Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Another thing I'll add to those who think HHH and Russo have ANY heat, I think your wrong. In the past, Russo has sucked HHH's cock harder than Steph ever could. He put over how HHH would do whatever was asked, etc. IF HHH is directly responsible for the demotion, then they might have heat now. Another thing I'd like to point out is don't you think Vince was there and if he wasn't at these meetings, then why wasn't he? His product is free falling and he should be there if they are going over potential across-the-board changes don't you think? Maybe HHH and Steph just reiterated what everyone else thought, that Russo's ideas suck now. Of course that's if HHH and Steph were even the ones, but that goes under RAMPANT NET SPECULATION!
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 You know...the person who was hurt most by the discontinuing of the Jericho/RVD feud wasn't even RVD. It was Jericho. RVD beat him on Raw...beat him down during a promo on the next SD!. Beat his in a tag match a week later. Hell he even beat Storm when Storm was playing Jericho's messenger. IT was obvious that feud wasnt over with...especially when the announcers were still referencing it in the show before January 7. But not continuing the feid REALLY REALLY hurt Jericho. Why? BECAUSE A MIDCARDER BEAT HIM AT EVERY TURN AND HE NEVER GOT A BLOWOFF WIN THAT HE SHOULD HAVE! The fact that this really hurt Jericho...and then RVD as a side effect is enough to prove to me that HHH had something to do with it. C'mon...its Jericho. If for only the simple reason that he would "suggest" to Steph or Vince that the Rock should main event Rumble so the buyrate from his big return ppv would be higher. Of course....that doesn't build any stars...but looky how big a draw that HHH is!
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Oh...and the reason I could easily buy HHH as being involved is due to the fact that Russo does like to get the lower people on the card involved...and he does like to elavate. Of course he and HHH got along the last time Russo was around...HHH was the one being elavated. This time around hes the guy on top...I see a difference.
Guest The Vanilla Midget Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 What I'm trying to figure out is when HHH eliminated RVD from the Rumble because I could have sworn that Booker T was #30 and HE eliminated RVD... Man, like I've said before, I'm not an HHH fan, but he isn't the cause for EVERYTHING wrong with this company... its funny how many people just hhhate 'cos it is a cool thing to do, and dont really know the facts and just restate the opinions of other people, in order to try and get themselves over on the board. also notice how most of the people who were originally anti-triple h (ie predating the hhhater moniker) of bps, goodhelmet, myself and anglesault (well there is an exception to every rule) dont kill every thread with hhhate crap. its absolutely crazy, cos right now this whole nonsense is turning the wwe folder into the worst place to actually talk about the wwe, as in every single fucking thread, some troll will bring up triple h and or stephanie. theres now a one-and-only thread in the flaming folder, fucking put all the repetitive argument there, only use new stuff which can be proved in some way here. [/rant off]
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Good point. Personally, I don't hate Triple H at all. I'm not fond of him or his lame ass face persona, but I don't outright hate him or anything. I get tired of having to wade through all the horseshit about "HHH sucks", "Steph sucks", "Test sucks", etc., etc. IT'S FUCKING OLD ALREADY. Just take the shit to No Holds Barred and bash them all you want THERE. It's irritating have to skip over 90 posts about how "evil" HHH is just to get to some decent conversation here.
Guest The Vanilla Midget Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 amen to APO, the voice of reason of the wwe folder
Guest bob_barron Posted June 23, 2002 Report Posted June 23, 2002 Didn't the Y2J-RVD feud end four days before RAW is HHH when Rock beat Booker T to become #1 contender??? And you're right- Booker T eliminated RVD not Triple H.
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