Impact Spoilahz for This Thursday

[The Truthiness 0]

That's not the point. The point is that the ban is retarded and there's no good reason for wrestling to be treated different from othre programming/

 

Because wrestling is different than other programming. It shouldn't even exist, let alone letting men beat up on women.

 

Those women on The Shield and The Bond movies aren't taking real beatings,

 

What? Are you including the stunt performers in your statement? Cuz that's dead wrong, those girls get the shit beaten out of them on a regular basis, same as wrestlers. Hell, remember that Lita broke her neck doing stunts for a TV series, not in the ring. Accidents happen all the time on the set of movies and TV, refer to all the shit which has been happening on the shoot of the new Bond movie for example. Jackie Chan's list of injuries would probably beat any wrestler short of Terry Funk, and even then it would be a fight. And those women's characters are portrayed as being beaten, maimed, raped, tortured, murdered, and so on. Way worse than anything which ever happens in wrestling, which despite its unique nature is still a staged fictional entertainment program. Yeah, wrestling is different since it happens more or less in real time in front of a live crowd, but I still don't see how a man hitting a woman on Impact is worse than a man hitting a woman on CSI or Star Trek.

 

1;I'm sure it's not happening every week and I'm also sure the studios take care of the women. Being a stunt double a few times a year, it's nothing like being a stunt woman most of the year. I'm sure that men are not beating the shit out of women for real on the Shield and Bond movies.

 

2: People go in to movies and watch tv shows knowing it's fake and it's not really happening. In wrestling the beatings are real, nobody wants to see a woman get the shit beat out of her by a man for real. I know I don't, I guess I just like women too much.

 

3; That isn't a fair comparison, wrestling is nothing like Star Trek or CSI. A more accurate comparison would be comparing women boxers vs men boxers, or women MMA fighters vs men MMA fighters. You can't make that comparison, because the people that govern boxing and MMA, are not dumb enough to pair the men and the women. The people watching MMA and Boxing are more likely to be watching wrestling, than people watching CSI or Star Trek. CSI is about criminals based in a real life situation, being caught by a forensic specialist. Star Trek is about some people fighting things from other planets. Wrestling is a fake sport, where people get beat up for real. A man should never be beating up on a woman for real, especially in something that is potrayed as a sport.

 

I can't believe that a company is getting called out because they don't want men beating up women in a fake sport.

[Jingus 0]

Because wrestling is different than other programming. It shouldn't even exist,

...what?

 

 

1;I'm sure it's not happening every week and I'm also sure the studios take care of the women. Being a stunt double a few times a year, it's nothing like being a stunt woman most of the year.

You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about, do you? You think stunt people just work a couple weeks per year, and are otherwise paid to sit around at home all day? Wow.

 

I'm sure that men are not beating the shit out of women for real on the Shield and Bond movies.

About the same as they are in wrestling. Yes, really. I had a conversation about this with Trinity once, and her perspective was that just like in wrestling, doing "fake movie fights" hurts a hell of a lot more than most people realize.

 

In wrestling the beatings are real

 

a fake sport.

Yeah.

[The Truthiness 0]

You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about, do you? You think stunt people just work a couple weeks per year, and are otherwise paid to sit around at home all day? Wow.

Yeah actually I do. When I spent time in Cali, that is actually what one of the stunt doubles told me. He actually said he only had 2 jobs that year and was able to buy a house and a hummer. He spenty the rest on weed and clubbing. This came from a actual stuntman's mouth, so I'm sure it's more stories like that from different stunt doubles. Just like I'm sure they get hurt a lot, I'm willing to bet that none of them would trade spots with a wrestler, and fuck up their bodies a few times a week.

 

 

 

 

About the same as they are in wrestling. Yes, really. I had a conversation about this with Trinity once, and her perspective was that just like in wrestling, doing "fake movie fights" hurts a hell of a lot more than most people realize.

Yeah, I've seen The Rock say things like that, I'm sure the pain might "hurt a hell of a lot more than people realise". But I'm willing to bet it doesn't hurt more than taking bumps everynight. I don't even think the studio would ask you do half of the things you have to do to work a match.

 

 

In wrestling the beatings are real

 

a fake sport.

Yeah.

 

So the beatings in wrestling aren't real? Good to know.

 

From one of your very 1st post, you have been calling these women competitors and fighters; Spike TV has let them be portrayed as both. Spike even wanted to give them their own show one time. The women have put on what most people call great matches, they are the cornerstone of the company. It is the only thing that people point to that TNA has done better than WWE. The champ is the most legit champion in the company, and is the best character in the company. The ratings are steady or go up when the Knock Outs are on TV, they have put together the perfect combination of sex appeal and legit athleticism, to make a division that appeals to a plethora of different viewers. They have done this with simple and rational booking, and this is the primarily the most prosperous thing the company has done in years, everything is going excellent for the girls nearly all of them are over. Your response to that is to start letting the men kick their ass. What the fuck?

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Can we get a separate thread for you guys to have your pissing matches?

[Jingus 0]

So the beatings in wrestling aren't real? Good to know.

No, they're not "beatings" at all, if the workers are doing their jobs. They're a cooperative stunt show which involves a certain amount of necessary pain and bodily risk which is accepted by the participants. It's fake, man, and to treat a fake wrestling fight different from every other fake fight on television is just silly.

 

Your response to that is to start letting the men kick their ass.

Don't put words in my mouth. I've never once said "hey, you know what will really get the Knockouts over? If we let the men just go in there and beat the shit out of them like Stone Cold beating his various wives!" All I'm trying to say is that the ban is stupid and unnecessary, especially when you've got plenty of women who are being portrayed as tough or tougher than the men.

[The Truthiness 0]

No, they're not "beatings" at all, if the workers are doing their jobs. They're a cooperative stunt show which involves a certain amount of necessary pain and bodily risk which is accepted by the participants. It's fake, man, and to t5eat a fake wrestling fight different from every other fake fight on television is just silly.

 

My god...Wow.

 

 

No it's not silly, the beatings are real, there is no disputing that. In fights on tv shows, they have a lot of takes and can add shit in, not in wrestling you can not compare the two. Come on, I know you're smarter than this. It seems like your arguing just to save face now, because that whole post is kind of silly.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I've never once said "hey, you know what will really get the Knockouts over? If we let the men just go in there and beat the shit out of them like Stone Cold beating his various wives!" All I'm trying to say is that the ban is stupid and unnecessary, especially when you've got plenty of women who are being portrayed as tough or tougher than the men.

That is basically what you said.

 

 

 

A man beating a woman is stupid and shouldn't be codoned, especially in something like wrestling. Just because wrestling storylines are fake, doesn't mean the violence is also. It's dumb to compare wrestling to shows like The Shield, Star Trek, or CSI. This is a good decision by Spike TV point blank, that shouldn't even be up for discussion, men beating on women is bad, period. I don't understand why anyone would think different, but hey, like I said I guess I just like women too much.

 

 

 

[Jingus 0]

No it's not silly, the beatings are real, there is no disputing that. In fights on tv shows, they have a lot of takes and can add shit in, not in wrestling you can not compare the two.

Alright, that's it. I hate playing this particular cliche, but if any argument warranted it, this one does: you've never been in the ring. I have. I know exactly what all those moves feel like. So if I say those beatings are not real "beatings", please believe that I know firsthand what I'm talking about. Wrestling is a work, and if you're really hitting each other (aside from strongstyle or worked shoot promotions), you're doing it wrong. I've also done stage combat in plays and some taped stunts for video stuff where we do indeed do a lot of takes. Know what? They're both remarkably similar to wrestling. Except much more dangerous, especially if you're doing big Hollywood stunts like car chases, swordfights, explosions, falling off buildings, and all that kind of shit. Quite a few stuntment have died doing that stuff. How many wrestlers have died in the ring?

 

That is basically what you said.

The hell it was. Back it up. Where did I ever say that helpless females who couldn't fight back needed to be domestically abused early and often by big manly men.

 

A man beating a woman is stupid and shouldn't be codoned, especially in something like wrestling. Just because wrestling storylines are fake, doesn't mean the violence is also. It's dumb to compare wrestling to shows like The Shield, Star Trek, or CSI.

IT IS FAKE. Is AJ's real last name "Styles"? Does James Storm legitimately show up to work drunk? Is Cheerleader Melissa really a muslim? Does Jay Lethal really think he's Randy Poffo? Did Jarrett's finisher The Stroke really look painful enough to win all those world title matches? Was that real glass that Sting bumped in? Wrestling Is Fake. It's fictional! They have scripts and everything! Badly written, but still! Because the stunt show happens to be harmful to the human biology does not change the fact that this is not a sport, period. It's an action show with soap opera tendencies. The live crowd is nothing more than a studio audience, the entire show is produced and marketed for television. It shouldn't be judged differently from any other such program.

 

This is a good decision by Spike TV point blank, that shouldn't even be up for discussion, men beating on women is bad, period. I don't understand why anyone would think different, but hey, like I said I guess I just like women too much.

"Well you're just a misogynist. I'm more enlightened." NO. Of course violent abuse towards anyone who cannot effectively defend themselves is generally a bad thing. It doesn't matter if they're women, children, in a wheelchair, or just a lot smaller than you. It's generally seen as bullying and tyranny, and nobody here is disputing that. However, you're taking the curious position that to even DEPICT such an act, even in a fictional television program, is not acceptable under any circumstances. Whafuck? You wanna ban The Honeymooners for all of Ralph's threatening to send Alice to da moon, too?

 

Firstly, it's an ancient and established narrative tradition that villains do bad things in stories. If anything is the modern equivalent to the medieval morality plays, it's professional wrestling. The heels have to get their heat in order to get over. You've already stated that man-on-woman violence should not be shown at all because it's wrong for a man to beat a woman in real life. Okay. Why stop there? Hitting an unsuspecting person from behind is also wrong. Clobbering someone with a blunt instrument is incredibly wrong. Should we ban those from wrestling too? Why not? It's all wrong, after all! Simply arguing that man-on-women violence is wrong and therefore should never be shown is an insanely old-fashioned argument. You'd have fit in well back at the Hayes Office. Hey, while we're at it, let's Godwin up this thread: the Holocaust was wrong. Ergo, we should not accept Schindler's List. Why is a guy hitting a girl apparently the one act which you deem is so thoroughly beyond the pale that we should never even fake it on TV?

 

Which leads me to my final point: in every single post in this thread you have consistently and exclusively categorized any sort of violence directed by a male towards a female as inherently being Beating Up A Woman. You're implying that a woman will always be a victim, a damsel in distress who could not possibly fight back against her mighty male aggressor. Coupling this with the fact that you've also said that you don't like the idea of women's wrestling, women bleeding, or women doing anything but passively seconding the big strong men to the ring in the form of a valet, this gives the general impression that you simply do not accept a woman as any sort of physical threat or athletic competitor. If Mike Tenay rears back with all the might his 120 pounds possesses and throws a devastating uppercut directly into Awesome Kong's belly button, is that still supposed to count as Beating Up A Woman? Simply put, as long as it's presented with enough skill, I have zero problem with the idea of a man and a woman having a competitive fight on equal terms. There are many, many non-wrestling examples of fictional entertainment in which women often beat the living shit out of male opponents. Why must wrestling alone stay in the No Bitch Ain't Gonna Hit Me dark ages?

[The Truthiness 0]

Man you wrote all that and your still wrong, Jingus. A man beating up a woman in a cop show, is in no way like a man beating up a woman in fake sport. the stunts aren't the same and the intent behind the beatings aren't the same. A cop show is set in real life situations, where a man beating a woman could indeed happen. In wrestling it should never come to that, seeing as men and woman have their own divisions and the whole fucking thing is supposed to be a sport. Like I said it's apples and oranges, a man killing a girl on The Shield, isn't anything like a steroid induced pyscho slamming a woman around just to prove, who's the better fake fighter. It is nothing at all alike and it is just silly to even make a comparison between them and you know it.

 

Plus, you really don't have big enough resume to pull the "you never been in the ring" card.

 

Coupling this with the fact that you've also said that you don't like the idea of women's wrestling, women bleeding, or women doing anything but passively seconding the big strong men to the ring in the form of a valet, this gives the general impression that you simply do not accept a woman as any sort of physical threat or athletic competitor.

 

Not true I watch women college hoops, The WNBA, and I like watching the Williams play tennis. But no, I don't want to see women slicing themselves up with blades and getting beat up by men. Me not being a fan of women wrestling has nothing to do with me appreciating athletic women...Try again.

[Jingus 0]

EDIT: fuck it. This is like trying to argue with Bill O'Reilly. Keep ignoring the details of the argument and yelling the same shit over and over, maybe someone will eventually believe it.

[The Truthiness 0]

Nothing you said has been fact, Jingus. .

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Plus, you really don't have big enough resume to pull the "you never been in the ring" card.

[Jingus 0]

No, I'm not even gonna attempt to continue this. Truthy just keeps repeating himself, ignores salient points, and always insists on having the last word.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Wait, Jingus: did you really try to compare the "violence" from movies or tv shows with the "violence" of pro wrestling?

 

Shows like The Shield, or movies like the Bond flicks, don't even pretend to be real; it's 100% recognized as being fake, with actors participating in the violence. Wrestling, on the other hand, still pretends to be real. Yes, I know that 'kayfabe' is a grey area, and there are times that they acknowledge that it's not real ... but more often or not, they pretend that the punches are real, that moves actually hurt, etc. Most of us are smart enough to recognize that it's all a work, but they try to maintain a level of reality that you won't find in a TV show or a movie.

 

Plus, it's an angle in pro wrestling ... why are you trying to point out the flaws in it? Why not focus on how stupid it is for someone to bounce back on an Irish Whip?

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Yeah, I'm not really following the point of comparing "Hollywood" violence to Pro Wrestling violence. It's not that hard of a concept to understand why the network doesn't want women getting beat on by men.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Plus, you really don't have big enough resume to pull the "you never been in the ring" card.

 

You should thank God this is an internet message board and not a personal conversation, because if Jingus wouldn't beat the shit out of you for that, I would.

 

For most anyone to be able to step into a ring for a match, you have to at least know how to take a bump, and that alone allows the "You've never been in the ring" card. You don't have to be HHH, Kurt Angle or Terry Funk to know what it's like in that ring. Show the man some respect for being willing to sacrifice his body for the entertainment of others.

 

Jingus' argument is valid in that the same kind of "faking" goes on in both wrestling and movies. The only difference is that wrestling is promoted as "live" and "real" instead of part of a distinct universe. I think it's kind of hypocritical for Spike to pull a "no violence on women" policy, especially since A) they once featured that on WWE programming, B) they do show other shows with violence towards women, and C) they show plenty of programming that objectifies women sexually.

 

Where Jingus' argument fails is that we're talking about pro wrestling. It's impossible to get people to treat it like any other show because for some reason people think it's more "real" than any other show. IT doesn't make sense to me, because as a kid I thought both wrestling and the Dukes of Hazzard were real. No one complained about the Dukes of Hazzard teaching kids bad driving skills and disrespect for the law, though.

[The Truthiness 0]

1st off Swigg, I doubt you or Jingus could kick my ass. Secondly, all I'm was saying is men shouldn't be beating on women. What is the problem?

[TheBigSwigg 0]

1st off Swigg, I doubt you or Jingus could kick my ass. Secondly, all I'm was saying is men shouldn't be beating on women. What is the problem?

 

It's not that you said men shouldn't be beating on women. It's that you disrespected Jingus when he has made the effort to be a professional wrestler when all you do is watch and play armchair booker. The argument about Spike not letting TNA show male on female violence was fine, but you went too far by insulting his efforts as an in ring talent. That was unnecessary, even if he did play the "You've never been in the ring" card.

 

And whether or not I could kick your ass, you'd think twice before opening your mouth like that again.

[The Truthiness 0]

Man, it isn't that serious.

 

 

[luke-o 0]

This is the dumbest arguement I've seen on this board for a while now.

 

I'm more pissed they're doing Lethal vs Dutt next week on Impact.

 

EDIT: It appears they didn't.

[Matt Young 0]

That Guns/Dragon Gate guys match was incredible. I saw some stuff I'd never seen before, as well as something I hadn't seen in months- the Guns winning a match.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I'm just watching that match now.

 

Let me say before I do watch it...

 

THEY SHOULD HAVE JOE WRESTLE SOMEONE LIKE KAZ EVERY WEEK. Seriously...that was everything that I want in a TV match with my world champion. The opponent (in this case Kaz) gave a real good showing and then lost clean. No bullshit, fast action, hot crowd, no commercial...just a really solid 7 minutes of a credible champion against a credible challenger. It did my brain some rare good.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

For the love of God there was more action in that match than their usually is on a whole episode of this show.

 

Scrap the whole XCup concept and just give those 4 all the time thay want on the next ppv. If they took those fast paced double team moves and had the time to showcase them in a match where they could build and build and build up to them they'd pretty much have pure gold in a wrestling ring.

 

Very impressive stuff.

[Scroby 0]

Plus, you really don't have big enough resume to pull the "you never been in the ring" card.

 

....But I do. :0) (thats a joke by the way.)

 

Seriously though, I can see where both Jingus and Truthiness is coming from and I see both of their points...but I'm gonna have to side with Truthiness here and here's why.

 

Even though Professional Wrestling is "fake", there are way to many people who believe it's real. Not everyone is a smart fan (thank God!) and there are those people (including kids) who take pro wrestling really to serious and when someone sees a male pro wrestler hitting/beating up a woman, it's either gonna do a few things, get the heat it deserves...or anger people. And if it angers people, then the letters and phone calls begin. Parents talking about how their kids were watching and how they are disgusted by it. Then viewers tune out, then it just becomes a slippery slope from there and it shouldn't.

 

Yeah Pro Wrestling is considered entertainment but doesn't mean it people buy in it way to much. And Jingus you really compare what happens on "The Shield" to Pro Wrestling because "The Shield" is also rated TV-MA while Pro Wrestling shows is not and a good portion of Pro Wrestling fans are kids who have parents who don't want their kids exposed to certain things thats on more "adult" themed shows.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Dudes on babes: It depends on how it's booked. Obviously if a guy lands a few shots and runs off before getting his comeuppance, people will be pissed...but what about how Heyman booked Alfonso v. Beulah? Fonzie got some shots in, he got his "He's beating up a woman, what a dick" heat, and then Beulah kicked the shit out of him, pinned him in the middle of the ring, and left him lying in a pool of his own blood.

 

All Jingus is pointing out, if my assessment is correct, is that when taken in context, saying "You can do pretty much anything to women on every show on our network, except for wrestling" is the exact opposite of....virtually every other network on the planet, really. You can get away with anything in wrestling, from assault, attempted murder, grand larceny, grand theft auto, robbery, burglary, breaking and entering, resisting arrest, rape (Remember Kane & Lita?), blackmail...

[Scroby 0]

Dudes on babes: It depends on how it's booked. Obviously if a guy lands a few shots and runs off before getting his comeuppance, people will be pissed...but what about how Heyman booked Alfonso v. Beulah? Fonzie got some shots in, he got his "He's beating up a woman, what a dick" heat, and then Beulah kicked the shit out of him, pinned him in the middle of the ring, and left him lying in a pool of his own blood.

I do see your point as you do make a valid one, but there's a few things you have to take into account when it comes to ECW and when men "beat up" or "attacked" women.

 

1. ECW was not on a major network.

2. ECW, while had a good following, didn't have that large of a tv viewing auidence on a nationwide showing.

3. That was a much different time.

4. ECW was known for pushing the envolpe (sp?) and was known to be geared towards more "hardcore" or "adult themed" pro wrestling.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

What the hell did any of this thread have to do with Impact?

[The Truthiness 0]

What the hell did any of this thread have to do with Impact?

 

 

Jingus somehow took the Roode/Storm vs LAX post match angle, and used as a stance against Spike TV's "No man on woman violence" policy. He thought the rule was "nonsensical", which would mean he doesn't think it makes sense to have a rule that a man SHOULDN'T hit a woman. He than went on to say Spike isn't letting the women be portrayed as "competitors and fighters", which is not true if anything Spike has been fans of the Knock Outs for a while and even wanted them to have their own show (iirc). So when that defense didn't work he started comparing wrestling to The Shield, CSI, Star Trek, And Bond movies and than he got lost. Jingus basically wants wrestling to be treated as a sport, but he also wants it to be treated like everything else on TV, which is cool. The thing is you don't have to have men beating on women, to have a wrestling show like that.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I like how The Truthiness is completely without blame in it all.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Yeah nice try Truthy.

That ban is pretty nonsensical when you think about it. According to their own rules on Spike, showing a (male) human getting dropped onto thousands of thumbtacks: fine. Showing one woman disgustingly beat another woman half to death: fine. Showing Jeremy Borash girly-slap Awesome Kong: not fine.

I guess it because people can accept men beating the shit out of eachother, or even women beating the shit out of eachother, but nobody wants to watch a man beat the shit out of a woman.

Note the difference. I bolded it for you, even.

 

Jingus said it was "nonsensical" that a network airing programming where women are attacked, raped, beaten and murdered will not let a male interviewer half-assedly slap some goliath amazon twice his size who's clearly capable of killing him merely because said goliath is female. Truthiness then twisted it into some equally nonsensical crusade where he split his time equally between implying Jingus is a misogynist who beats women and implying that women are inferior to men and should never compete against them in anything.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Impact was a damn good show last night. Curry Man - Koslov was entertaining, and MCMG - Doi/Yoshino was great. Joe - Kazarian, AJ - Angle. Good stuff all the way around.