E3 2008

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

It's not over-priced in the sense that a fuckton of people are willing to buy it at $250. They could have easily gotten away with a bump to $299 this past Christmas.

 

It is over-priced in the sense that it's an overclocked GameCube with WiFi and Bluetooth in terms of hardware. The fact that it's lacking in games only helps to make it not worth the money to me.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

And Penny Arcade just about nails it:

 

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/7/16/

 

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

This Prince of Persia trailer is absolutely gorgeous.

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36270.html

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

Dawn of War 2 trailer. BANANAS~!

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36579.html

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Just watching the Fable2 announcement now, looks really good to be honest. I like the Co-Op idea, seems to work well!

[AndrewTS 0]

The Penny Arcade comic-- hilarious and true!

 

Oh, since Nintendo is apparently ashamed of us, they didn't bother announcing that the Wii is getting Dead Rising (broken via Famitsu scans this morning).

 

Okay, it's a Japanese mag, but FFS, DEAD RISING!!!

 

EDIT: someone put in Wii thread already, good work!

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Don't worry, Scroby, you & I can be Animal Crossing buddies.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Just got around to watching the Res5 demo too - its Gears of War almost?

 

Updated first page with some Release dates that have been announced.

 

Resident Evil 5 - 13th March 2009

Fable 2 - October 2008

[BUTT 0]

http://e3.nintendo.com/

 

Dear God, what a lineup. The conscience of gaming, right there.

 

I forgot about MillionHeir Mystery whatever in my post earlier. To be honest I think I'm more interested in that than any other game on the site.

 

 

[Ripper 0]

That Yahoo headline still annoys me. Okay, mostly it is Sony that annoys me with their obvious buying of press, but still. "Sony Leads the Gaming Console Battle" is the headline. That just pisses me off.

 

Yahoo - where third place = leading.

[The Man in Blak 0]

In my opinion, it looks like Microsoft emerges as the clear winner from E3 2008; they got their foot in the door with a major player in the Japanese market (FFXIII), provided a major expansion to their multimedia capabilities (the Netflix integration), and also managed to host the most promising game of the show (Fallout 3). If they can continue to push out more diversity in their library, they could very well overtake the Wii because Nintendo appears to have completely fallen asleep at the wheel.

 

I don't harbor as much vitriol for the Big N as Andrew does, but I think E3 comes across as a major disappointment for them. It's like they've decided to stop caring conventional games entirely, which is probably an acceptable direction for their first-party developers (since they've pretty much blown their IP load already, save for Kid Icarus), but not so warm-and-fuzzy when you consider that a port of an XBox 360 game from two years ago is the high point of their third party gaming revelations. Not only that, but they appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that they're playing on the rails while a freight train called "disc space issues" is screaming down the tracks; both of their major alternative selling points to consumers (Virtual Console) as well as third-party developers (easier digital distribution through WiiWare) are going to be completely gridlocked by this time next year without some kind of hard drive peripheral intervention.

 

That being said, there are a couple of things that I think they did right:

 

9:40 Wii MotionPlus is shown, which is a peripheral that attaches to the bottom of the Wii Mote. This helps calculate your wrist movements more accurately.

 

Translation: a peripheral that is designed to fix the Wiimote's absolute dog**** motion detection, which was hardly worthy of being called a finished product.

 

Yet again, Nintendo fixes their imperfect tech's mistakes, and passes the buck to you, the consumer.

 

Considering that Nintendo was the first to enter the market with this imperfect tech, and that tech still surpasses any of the competitor's offerings by a long shot, I'm willing to give them a longer leash for this kind of hardware update, as long as it's positioned and priced accordingly. (As you mentioned, the new WiiSports is a perfect avenue for this.)

 

Point of comparison to consider: Sony's eventual integration of the Dual Shock into the PS1 SKU.

 

9:55 Wii Music is announced. Shigeru Miyamoto approaches the stage using the Wii Mote to play the onscreen saxophone. Someone is also using a combination of the Wii Fit board and Wii Mote to play the drums in the background. The balance board is used to push the drum pedals while the Wii Mote strikes the symbols. A large group of people then come out, select their instrument, and continue to play the Super Mario Brothers theme song.

 

Nintendo's innovation knows no bounds!!

 

There's obviously no innovation in the game content itself, but I see this as a major boon to the genre at large, as it enters the market as the first music/rhythm game that isn't handcuffed to stupid instrument peripherals that are completely useless for virtually every other game on the console.

[Exslade ZX 0]

 

Awesome.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

haha GENIUS!

[AndrewTS 0]

Not only that, but they appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that they're playing on the rails while a freight train called "disk space issues" is screaming down the tracks; both of their major alternative selling points to consumers (Virtual Console) as well as third-party developers (easier digital distribution through WiiWare) are going to be completely gridlocked by this time next year without some kind of hard drive peripheral intervention.

 

Only geeks and otaku care about that.

 

The rest can just clear out their "fridge" to make more room. It's still tied to your console, you'll have to just wait to download the crap again or move it onto an SD card and move it back, which isn't too much faster.

 

The solution is staring them in the face--make games bootable from SD cards. However, they probably see PSP issues and are worried. VC already has been effectively hacked with the WAD Injector trick.

 

That being said, there are a couple of things that I think they did right:

 

Considering that Nintendo was the first to enter the market with this imperfect tech, and that tech still surpasses any of the competitor's offerings by a long shot, I'm willing to give them a longer leash for this kind of hardware update, as long as it's positioned and priced accordingly. (As you mentioned, the new WiiSports is a perfect avenue for this.)

 

First to enter the market? Do you mean with Power Glove or U-Force, or more recently--where Sony introduced the EyeToy but never did anything with it other than make it a peripheral with a handful of games?

 

The only recent, innovative thing Nintendo had done with motion controls was their "disruption" strategy. The Wii Remote isn't a peripheral, it *is* the controller. It was going to be a GC peripheral until Nintendo decided to base their new system around it. Although honestly the Wii isn't much stronger than a GC, and everyone knows it.

 

Point of comparison to consider: Sony's eventual integration of the Dual Shock into the PS1 SKU.

 

Power of better comparison: virtually every other update to a controller introduced ever besides that. Now, Wii Sports 2 will be marketed as a must-have and Motion Plus will be probably available in some other fashion, but it's amusing how Nintendo's motion control is garbage and they're charging you to upgrade. It's a "we fucked up, here, pay for our mistakes" type of solution. Then again, Sony is still selling Dual Shock 3s. However, charging people extra for a peripheral is the complete opposite of disruption. The DS was disruptive, and heck the original Xbox's hard drive was disruptive. However, if you can't count on everyone to have it, it's going to limit the potential for use.

 

There's obviously no innovation in the game content itself, but I see this as a major boon to the genre at large, as it enters the market as the first music/rhythm game that isn't handcuffed to stupid instrument peripherals that are completely useless for virtually every other game on the console.

 

Well, there's Wii Samba de Amigo (which will be released first), but the Wii owners who bought Guitar Hero 3 and will be buying Rock Band are probably not concerned so much about the instrument peripherals, and will probably gladly accept that over some lame waggling to Nintendo music.

 

Truth be told, Nintendo probably views this more as their chance to pander to mainstream non-gaming press than they do to actually offer/announce anything new to enthusiasts. Get used to the notion, because it's what Matt Cassamassabobassarolesina and Chris Kohler and others are going to say. I really want them to be right about it, too.

 

Still, the most exciting Wii-related news it a port that was announced in Famitsu, IMO. Yay, Dead Rising with readable text!

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

Final Fantasy XIII is only on 360 in North America and Europe. Given that it's still also on PS3, I doubt that'd be much of an incentive for the Japanese to go with the Xbox.

[AndrewTS 0]

Well, the PS3 is still a *small* disaster in Japan (a bit over 2 million). It's just that the 360 is an enormous, loud, flaming, exploding wreckage of a disaster (under 700,000).

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Thing is though, the original xbox was as well, Microsoft have tried to win over some Japanese fans with Blue Dragon and that, but there's just no way they'll ever do any damage to home grown Sony.

[BUTT 0]

FOR GOD'S SAKE ANDREWTS NINTENDO DIDN'T MAKE THE POWER GLOVE OR THE U-FORCE YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT

[The Man in Blak 0]

Not only that, but they appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that they're playing on the rails while a freight train called "disk space issues" is screaming down the tracks; both of their major alternative selling points to consumers (Virtual Console) as well as third-party developers (easier digital distribution through WiiWare) are going to be completely gridlocked by this time next year without some kind of hard drive peripheral intervention.

 

Only geeks and otaku care about that.

 

The rest can just clear out their "fridge" to make more room. It's still tied to your console, you'll have to just wait to download the crap again or move it onto an SD card and move it back, which isn't too much faster.

 

The solution is staring them in the face--make games bootable from SD cards. However, they probably see PSP issues and are worried. VC already has been effectively hacked with the WAD Injector trick.

 

I agree that their paranoia towards SD card loading is kind of silly, considering the current hackery in play (also worth mentioning: the Twilight Princess hack). But I disagree that it's completely a geek and otaku concern because the limited space provides a major roadblock for WiiWare developers, who will likely be reluctant to load up on any significant kind of game content due to the itty-bitty living space; that would seem to limit the distribution channel to gimmickry (Major League Eating!) and mini-game-worthy spew and, given that they're already competing against a lineup of various console classics, why would any developer (indie or otherwise) want to take the risk vs. developing for XBLA?

 

Considering that Nintendo was the first to enter the market with this imperfect tech, and that tech still surpasses any of the competitor's offerings by a long shot, I'm willing to give them a longer leash for this kind of hardware update, as long as it's positioned and priced accordingly. (As you mentioned, the new WiiSports is a perfect avenue for this.)

 

First to enter the market? Do you mean with Power Glove or U-Force, or more recently--where Sony introduced the EyeToy but never did anything with it other than make it a peripheral with a handful of games?

 

The only recent, innovative thing Nintendo had done with motion controls was their "disruption" strategy. The Wii Remote isn't a peripheral, it *is* the controller. It was going to be a GC peripheral until Nintendo decided to base their new system around it. Although honestly the Wii isn't much stronger than a GC, and everyone knows it.

 

I was referring more to the "disruption" strategy, rather than the actual tech itself, as there are obvious (and very unfortunate) precursors to the Wiimote in the motion controller field; my point is that the Wiimote is the first inclusion of that motion control functionality as base requirements for a console and, as I understand it, the Wii MotionPlus seems to be an enhancement of that motion sensing capability, rather than a brand new peripheral altogether.

 

Point of comparison to consider: Sony's eventual integration of the Dual Shock into the PS1 SKU.

 

Power of better comparison: virtually every other update to a controller introduced ever besides that. Now, Wii Sports 2 will be marketed as a must-have and Motion Plus will be probably available in some other fashion, but it's amusing how Nintendo's motion control is garbage and they're charging you to upgrade. It's a "we fucked up, here, pay for our mistakes" type of solution. Then again, Sony is still selling Dual Shock 3s. However, charging people extra for a peripheral is the complete opposite of disruption. The DS was disruptive, and heck the original Xbox's hard drive was disruptive. However, if you can't count on everyone to have it, it's going to limit the potential for use.

 

Once again, maybe it would be useful to get more technical details about how the new motion data is being recorded from the MotionPlus, but it appears to be supplementing the existing motion sensory capabilities (rather than replacing them with something new), so it should not require special effort and/or new APIs for the developers to use for it. If the new MotionPlus data isn't accessible to the programmers through the same means as the conventional motion sensory data, then I'll gladly reverse course on this one.

 

There's obviously no innovation in the game content itself, but I see this as a major boon to the genre at large, as it enters the market as the first music/rhythm game that isn't handcuffed to stupid instrument peripherals that are completely useless for virtually every other game on the console.

 

Well, there's Wii Samba de Amigo (which will be released first), but the Wii owners who bought Guitar Hero 3 and will be buying Rock Band are probably not concerned so much about the instrument peripherals, and will probably gladly accept that over some lame waggling to Nintendo music.

 

Truth be told, Nintendo probably views this more as their chance to pander to mainstream non-gaming press than they do to actually offer/announce anything new to enthusiasts. Get used to the notion, because it's what Matt Cassamassabobassarolesina and Chris Kohler and others are going to say. I really want them to be right about it, too.

 

I'm personally concerned about the instrument peripherals because I think it's one of the most banal gaming trends in years, Rock Band's remarkable gameplay be damned. As for the game itself, it is different enough from those other games (since we're dealing with a symphony) to be distinctive; the presumed lack of DLC (hey, there's that disk space issue again) would seem to be a buzzkill, but I'm reserving judgment on the "lame waggling" at this point until I can see more. Call me an optimist.

 

Still, the most exciting Wii-related news it a port that was announced in Famitsu, IMO. Yay, Dead Rising with readable text!

 

Yeah, as I said, a limp showing overall for them. Animal Crossing, in particular, seems like a major miscalculation; does anybody really view that as a AAA title? Really? There are people foaming at the mouth for any kind of halfway-decent FPS on that system, just because of the controls - how can they completely overlook that opportunity?

 

Final Fantasy XIII is only on 360 in North America and Europe. Given that it's still also on PS3, I doubt that'd be much of an incentive for the Japanese to go with the Xbox.

 

I didn't say that an upheaval of the Japanese market was on the horizon - I'm just saying that snagging FFXIII gets their foot in the door with Square for future efforts. Take a look at GTA4: Microsoft went above and beyond to market GTA4 as an XBox 360 title, so much so that it almost seemed like an afterthought for the console series that it originally called home (Playstation). If MS can implement a similar strategy for FFXIII, then maybe they can win some loyalty from Square and Japanese developers to push their products worldwide with them, rather than stay in any kind of exclusivity with Sony.

[AndrewTS 0]

Italics on The Man in Black's quotes, since otherwise it may not post.

 

I agree that their paranoia towards SD card loading is kind of silly, considering the current hackery in play (also worth mentioning: the Twilight Princess hack). But I disagree that it's completely a geek and otaku concern because the limited space provides a major roadblock for WiiWare developers, who will likely be reluctant to load up on any significant kind of game content due to the itty-bitty living space; that would seem to limit the distribution channel to gimmickry (Major League Eating!) and mini-game-worthy spew and, given that they're already competing against a lineup of various console classics, why would any developer (indie or otherwise) want to take the risk vs. developing for XBLA?

 

I was sarcastically referencing Nintendo of Europe's Laurent Fischer: http://kotaku.com/5016274/nintendos-fische...d-otaku-comment

 

I agree it's a major issue. Heck, as it is the XLBA game size limits sometimes are a problem, as the developers of SSF2T HD Remix can attest to.

 

Considering that Nintendo was the first to enter the market with this imperfect tech, and that tech still surpasses any of the competitor's offerings by a long shot, I'm willing to give them a longer leash for this kind of hardware update, as long as it's positioned and priced accordingly. (As you mentioned, the new WiiSports is a perfect avenue for this.)

 

I wouldn't say it surpasses all the competitor's offerings--though at least the 1st party ones: http://kotaku.com/gaming/namco/guncon-3-is...mote-328339.php

 

Nintendo just needs to make sure it's done right, and pressure developers to use it rather than waggle-fest games. As it is, my biggest gripe about Nintendo and their relationship with 3rd party developers is their current lack of any kind of quality control. I don't support concept approval...but holy crap, Ninja Breadman?!

 

I was referring more to the "disruption" strategy, rather than the actual tech itself, as there are obvious (and very unfortunate) precursors to the Wiimote in the motion controller field; my point is that the Wiimote is the first inclusion of that motion control functionality as base requirements for a console and, as I understand it, the Wii MotionPlus seems to be an enhancement of that motion sensing capability, rather than a brand new peripheral altogether.

 

That's well and good, but technically the nunchuck is an extra accessory you have to pay for other than the first one you get with the console. So, it's getting to the point where, for a fully-functioning Nintendo Wii controller, you need:

 

Wii Remote: $39.99

Wii Nunchuck: $19.99

Wii MotionPlus: $???

 

We're already at 60 dollars, and *each* Wii Remote needs one. Plus, you know it's going to be at least $15-20 per MotionPlus attachment.

 

Once again, maybe it would be useful to get more technical details about how the new motion data is being recorded from the MotionPlus, but it appears to be supplementing the existing motion sensory capabilities (rather than replacing them with something new), so it should not require special effort and/or new APIs for the developers to use for it. If the new MotionPlus data isn't accessible to the programmers through the same means as the conventional motion sensory data, then I'll gladly reverse course on this one.

 

Supposedly works with the existing accelerometer's, for what that's worth.

 

I'm personally concerned about the instrument peripherals because I think it's one of the most banal gaming trends in years, Rock Band's remarkable gameplay be damned. As for the game itself, it is different enough from those other games (since we're dealing with a symphony) to be distinctive; the presumed lack of DLC (hey, there's that disk space issue again) would seem to be a buzzkill, but I'm reserving judgment on the "lame waggling" at this point until I can see more. Call me an optimist.

 

You kind of have to be to be an N fan these days. Big time. Plus, I'm not saying it isn't distinctive, I just think the alternatives are far more appealing to most--add-ons or no.

Yeah, as I said, a limp showing overall for them. Animal Crossing, in particular, seems like a major miscalculation; does anybody really view that as a AAA title? Really? There are people foaming at the mouth for any kind of halfway-decent FPS on that system, just because of the controls - how can they completely overlook that opportunity?

 

Considering how well Prime 3 sold with *extremely poor* marketing, and Red Steel at a million despite being basically garbage, yeah it continues to puzzle me. However, Nintendo has never been looking at getting an FPS on the system. The 3D Metroids have focus on other gameplay aspects, and Geist was never what Nintendo actually intended, although the actual developers *wanted* to make it more like a traditional FPS.

 

FPS games on the Wii are never going to look as good as on the competing systems, but anyone who has actually played Prime 3 can tell you the pointer function makes for an experience the others can't quite duplicate.

 

FOR GOD'S SAKE ANDREWTS NINTENDO DIDN'T MAKE THE POWER GLOVE OR THE U-FORCE YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT

 

Apologies on the error. I was aware they didn't make it, but with them being officially licensed--and in the case of the Power Glove, endorsed in the World's Longest Nintendo Commercial, I was thinking they were subsidized/bought up by Nintendo like the Power Pad.

[BUTT 0]

U-Force was Broderbund and Power Glove was Mattel. Sorry Drewts, it's not you. It's EVERYONE who always says LOL NINTENDO MADE THE POWER GLOVE AND U-FORCE AND THE WIZARD when in fact they had nothing to do with those except collecting the money.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Man only $60 for a Remote and 'chuck? That's like £35! You're look at that just for the remote over here almost.

[BUTT 0]

Also, this MotionPlus thing is just going to piss people off. Save the 1:1 stuff for Wii 2. Maybe Nintendo thought they had to get a leg up on some competitor's hypothetical 1:1 Wii Remote ripoff, but all this thing does it highlight that the current controller is NOT accurate.

[Guest Vitamin X]

EDIT: Nothing to see here!

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

omg posted like a page ago, I can't believe you haven't read this whole thread. It contains Andrew's Nintendo Breakdown!

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

MotionPlus isn't going to piss off Nintendo's aim, the casual base.

 

If anything, it'll just make them happier. I had a large group of family over for the 4th, none of which were anything that I would consider "core gamers" and to say that the Wii was a hit would be a huge disservice to how much play that thing got. Of all games, GOLF from Wii Sports was played the most. People just flocked to it for some reason.

 

The idea of enhancing the motion controls will only make games more realistic towards the players movements, and theoretically enhance the enjoyment of the game for many people. It's a genius move to bundle that with a new Wii Sports built around using it to it's capabilities. I could very well see a new Wii Sports with ENHANCED~! motion capabilities being one of the big sellers.

 

Say what you will about Nintendo, but they know how to market their stuff. Most games like Wii Sports will use this add-on, making it a must own, and people won't complain about the extra twenty dollars because they will be getting a "richer" experience with the Wii, while Nintendo can claim it's not MANDATORY therefore leaving it up to the individual Wii owner's discretion towards buying it or not.

[AndrewTS 0]

I'd rather MotionPlus be mandatory than simply out there, existing, for a few titles. Waggle in its current form is effectively useless for any decent control mechanism.

 

BTW, Nintendo got the memo and believes...well, you can't criticize E3. It's not for you!! :

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2008/07/1...games-miyamoto/

 

Miyamoto argues that the industry's red-letter day is now better suited to showing off "new concepts and new types of play that we intend to bring to the broader audience, particularly because of the media that gathers at E3 now."

[Guest Vitamin X]

omg posted like a page ago, I can't believe you haven't read this whole thread. It contains Andrew's Nintendo Breakdown!

Whoops, I must've skimmed over that while the image was still loading.

 

And I don't really care about Andrew's Nintendo Breakdown.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

omg posted like a page ago, I can't believe you haven't read this whole thread. It contains Andrew's Nintendo Breakdown!

Whoops, I must've skimmed over that while the image was still loading.

And I don't really care about Andrew's Nintendo Breakdown.

 

So far its the highlight of E3 for me. Really feel for him though

[MrRant 0]

In my opinion, it looks like Microsoft emerges as the clear winner from E3 2008; they got their foot in the door with a major player in the Japanese market (FFXIII), provided a major expansion to their multimedia capabilities (the Netflix integration), and also managed to host the most promising game of the show (Fallout 3). If they can continue to push out more diversity in their library, they could very well overtake the Wii because Nintendo appears to have completely fallen asleep at the wheel.

 

I don't harbor as much vitriol for the Big N as Andrew does, but I think E3 comes across as a major disappointment for them. It's like they've decided to stop caring conventional games entirely, which is probably an acceptable direction for their first-party developers (since they've pretty much blown their IP load already, save for Kid Icarus), but not so warm-and-fuzzy when you consider that a port of an XBox 360 game from two years ago is the high point of their third party gaming revelations. Not only that, but they appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that they're playing on the rails while a freight train called "disc space issues" is screaming down the tracks; both of their major alternative selling points to consumers (Virtual Console) as well as third-party developers (easier digital distribution through WiiWare) are going to be completely gridlocked by this time next year without some kind of hard drive peripheral intervention.

 

Except that I believe FFXIII is still a PS3 exclusive in Japan from what I understand.