Let's Talk About....

[Darth Vader 0]

Since I started the whole concept of "Let's talk about" and everyone here led it in aweful directions., I intened this rememberenced based topic to remain positive. It's not a way to talk aout how wresting sucks NOW, we all know it does and bitching changes nothing, so why not give it up.

 

Anywaium Hogan vs. Goldberg on Nitro 1998, matches like this make me know why I will always be a fan. An unstopable force, KILLING every single person he ever confronted in his shotrt 9 month career AGAINST the legend and ICON. Hogan was a man whom always got the job done and Goldberg was next in line being pushed as hard as you could push an individual. At this time I was very much in the WWF camp but this match tore my interset away from even giving an shit about if "Are The Undertaker and Kane in chahoots againgst Austin??!?!?".

 

To me this macth represents everything pro wresting is about. Please share if you saw this match live and your memories of this legedary match. Maybe it's not a ***** star match, but anyone who is still wrapped up in that tired shit needs to maybe get laid or something cuz flips and circus shit make a a match good!!!!!

 

WATCH IT!

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...ulk-hogan_sport

[Papacita 0]

I was just watching this last week actually. It's on a tape of Raws and ECWs I recorded from that month (I LOVE this tape, BTW, and this month. There was at least one classic moment every week), and it shows where I turned from Ken Shamrock/King Mabel match on Raw that night in order to watch this.

 

I was never much of a WCW fan, and my interest in it at this time was probably at an all-time low, but even with that, it was always a pretty big moment whenever I got to see Hogan get beat (I hated Hogan) and the fact that it was done so cleanly had me and my friends going crazy. The fact that we didn't even have to pay to see it made it better. It also amuses me, looking back, that the whole Karl Malone thing from this period managed to factor into this.

 

One question though: how was this built on TV? I was barely watching at the time, but it just seems like they announced they'd be fighting at the Georgia Dome months in advance (they were talking about it on the net for a while) and that was it.

[Diamonddust 0]

One of the biggest wastes of a guaranteed monster buy-rate in wrestling history.

[Timmy8271 0]

I actually watched this yesterday. Still one of my all time favorite WCW moments but like all of WCW, They went nowhere with it. I'm pretty sure after this, Warrior came in and it went all to hell.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

One of the biggest wastes of a guaranteed monster buy-rate in wrestling history.

[King Kamala 0]

I don't know what the hell this dope is talking about. "Everyone led it wrong directions?" First off, hardly anyone starts these threads anymore besides myself and second, I can't remember a single one where we bitched about the current product. Yes, there was excessive bitching about Vince Russo's WCW but that sort of deserved it. And if you wanted the thread to accentuate the positive than why was the first one about X-Factor, one of the least liked stables of all time? Just look at the other "Let's Talk About" threads and you'll see your argument doesn't even make sense.

 

 

Anyways, I don't think anyone will disagree that this match made for some exciting television but in the long run was one of the worst business decisions made by WCW. Like Diamonddust and mellowvengeful said, it could have had a monster buyrate and made millions for WCW. Even in the immediate aftermath, this match meant nothing. Hogan continued to be the focus of the show while Goldberg was stuck squashing mid-carders.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

This should have been the main event of Starrcade. Goldberg was US Champ for only something like a month prior to this and they could have easily run that longer. Like others have said, it was a big mistake throwing this away for free on Nitro with no buildup.

[Diamonddust 0]

This should have been the main event of Starrcade. Goldberg was US Champ for only something like a month prior to this and they could have easily run that longer. Like others have said, it was a big mistake throwing this away for free on Nitro with no buildup.

 

It also goes to show you how smart the WWE was in building Steve Austin. They had multiple times where they could have quickly put the World Title on him, but luckily, they waited until it really meant something by having it happen at Wrestlemania. (Granted, the wait almost bit them big time when Austin got injured during the Owen Hart feud).

[Timmy8271 0]

Well it did succeed in the only thing it was set out to accomplish, it beat Raw for one week.

[CanadianChris 0]

One of the biggest wastes of a guaranteed monster buy-rate in wrestling history.

This.

 

To me this macth represents everything pro wresting is about.

It certainly represented everything WCW was about, didn't it?

[cabbageboy 0]

It was a puzzling build and I'm not sure why they did it so early. Goldberg never really even feuded with the NWO in 1998, just kept beating jobbers in the US title division and then voila one night on Thunder Dillon announced he would face Hogan for the title on Nitro. In reality that GA Dome show should be been the start of Goldberg's title push, not the actual title win. There are ways to get the US off him without jobbing him anyway, just have him stripped of the belt for whatever reason. Or maybe have someone in the NWO screw GB out of the US title with a Hogan run in, then GB sets his sights on Hogan.

 

This all pays off at Starrcade of course.

[Diamonddust 0]

It was a puzzling build and I'm not sure why they did it so early. Goldberg never really even feuded with the NWO in 1998, just kept beating jobbers in the US title division and then voila one night on Thunder Dillon announced he would face Hogan for the title on Nitro. In reality that GA Dome show should be been the start of Goldberg's title push, not the actual title win. There are ways to get the US off him without jobbing him anyway, just have him stripped of the belt for whatever reason. Or maybe have someone in the NWO screw GB out of the US title with a Hogan run in, then GB sets his sights on Hogan.

 

This all pays off at Starrcade of course.

 

They could have recycled a part of the Magnum/Nikita feud, had Goldberg strike an official for some reason caused by the NWO, get stripped of the belt, an ally goes up against an NWO foe for it, while Goldberg systematically plowed down NWO members until he got Hogan at Starrcade.

 

This was WCW we're talking about so naturally something like this wasn't going to happen. Plus, the WWE was getting beyond white hot at that point with not only Austin as a mega-star, but The Rock as well.

[cabbageboy 0]

Eh, The Rock wasn't really a big draw yet in the Summer of 1998. He was getting there but wasn't quite beyond the IC belt. WCW never really built anything long term though. The Rock was built through most of 1998 and was ready to main event WM the next year, meanwhile Goldberg got a massive push and by March 1999 was already fading.

[Diamonddust 0]

Eh, The Rock wasn't really a big draw yet in the Summer of 1998. He was getting there but wasn't quite beyond the IC belt. WCW never really built anything long term though. The Rock was built through most of 1998 and was ready to main event WM the next year, meanwhile Goldberg got a massive push and by March 1999 was already fading.

 

I was talking around the time of Starrcade '98, the event that should have featured Hogan vs. Goldberg. The Rock was into his first World Title reign at that point.

[King Kamala 0]

WCW never really properly utilized Goldberg. He was clearly the most over guy on the roster in the last two or three years in the company but WCW never gave him the ball and let him run with it. He always seemed to be in the shadow of Hogan or Nash or Sting. I'm trying to think of how many shows Goldberg main evented in WCW and the number is surprisingly low. There was Halloween Havoc '98 (While he was in the last match, most of the focus was on Hogan/Warrior II), Starrcade '98, Souled Out '99, Halloween Havoc '99 (And here he was a surprise entrant in the main event), and Starrcade '99.

[cabbageboy 0]

Let's see.....I always thought WCW meant to put the belt on Goldberg again but for whatever reason it just never happened. He was off filming Universal Soldier 2 so his 1999 run to the title was cut short. He came back later in 1999 and seemingly won the belt at HH 99 but that was disallowed and they did the tourney. Russo gave Bret the title on a favor as payback for Montreal of sorts. And then Goldberg tore his arm up right as he was going to feud with NWO 2000 (where I would assume he would beat Bret for the title?). He came back and did the ill advised "heel turn" or whatever that was in June 2000, etc.

 

Go back and watch the waning days of WCW and you'll see that slight potential for something interesting. I thought the angle of Goldberg having to repeat his streak to get a shot at Steiner was a great idea. It kept the two apart and allowed for a long term build, which WCW was sorely lacking. Problem is that the company didn't have enough time left. I would assume they rushed through it and had Totally Buff end Goldberg's career earlier than planned since they wanted to get Goldberg back in the title hunt earlier than all that.

[King Kamala 0]

Wow, I thought I was the only who liked the angle where Goldberg was forced to recreate the streak. OK, I'll admit the angle was full of gaping plot holes (Why didn't babyface commissioner Ric Flair just end the shenanigans? Wasn't the WCW roster a third of the size it was during Goldberg's first streak?) and it wasn't the most original idea but the only time Goldberg was really interesting to me was during the streak. The angle had a convoluted ending but I had enjoyed the ride up until then.

[Vampiro69 0]

WCW wasted the match just so that they could win the ratings war for a night. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the last time they would ever win a ratings week?

 

This was really the cash cow match WCW needed to stay alive. If they would have held off until Starcade it would have had an enormous buyrate.

 

WCW would later do this in the last year and a half of existence of wasting what could have been their saving grace by throwing Sting vs Goldberg out at the end of a PPV for no reason.

 

For all the crazy stuff WCW did, I still miss watching them.

[Diamonddust 0]

WCW wasted the match just so that they could win the ratings war for a night. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the last time they would ever win a ratings week?

 

This was really the cash cow match WCW needed to stay alive. If they would have held off until Starcade it would have had an enormous buyrate.

 

WCW would later do this in the last year and a half of existence of wasting what could have been their saving grace by throwing Sting vs Goldberg out at the end of a PPV for no reason.

 

For all the crazy stuff WCW did, I still miss watching them.

 

I might be wrong, but I think they won the night the Warrior appeared.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I know that Nitro scored a higher rating for Flair's return on September 14, but I can't think of anything after that. It should also be noted that Nitro's overall rating, by this time, was always inflated (from a MNW standpoint) as it factored in an unopposed first hour.

[CanadianChris 0]

Their last win came the night they reaired the DDP/Goldberg title match from Halloween Havoc 98, due to problems with the PPV feed.

 

Hey, I'm sensing a trend!

[cabbageboy 0]

As we later found out, Flair himself was actively involved in screwing Goldberg and costing him his WCW career. So that is why he didn't simply end the Russo stipulation of Goldberg repeating his streak.

 

It could have played out really well too if WCW had stayed around. Let's say GB runs through jobber after jobber, but Steiner isn't worried and keeps winning title matches. Goldberg gets closer though and Steiner starts sorta worrying about it. Then finally Goldberg gets within a few wins of the streak and Steiner starts trying to screw him and maybe he actually DOES do it. Then whoever is commish can rightfully overrule this crap and reinstate Goldberg and give him his well earned title shot.

[Boxer 0]

Man, this thread makes me wonder how WCW could blow the whole Goldberg gimmick. It could've ran much more longer properly. This again hammers home the point of why WCW is dead.

 

Back to the match, I loved it, marked out, but I gotta say like everyone else, FREE TV? The thing with Hogan-Goldberg at Starrcade, could they manage to let Hogan hold the belt for 5 more months? Wouldn't he get stale as hell?

[cabbageboy 0]

So what? Hogan was stale as all fuck for most of 1997 as well, not to mention most of his 1995 title run before that. Think about WCW's goofy build to Starrcade 97, built around Hogan never really defending the title much and Sting never wrestling AT ALL. It worked almost in spite of itself.

 

If you have Hogan do the same stuff he had been doing, like the celebrity crossover matches and a mini feud with DDP, Goldberg could keep squashing people on the undercard in US title matches. The Warrior nonsense could be a stop gap title feud as well, just have the DDP vs. Goldberg match at HH 98 be #1 contender or US title. Goldberg then wins WW3 instead of Nash, goes to Starrcade, then do the exact same match with Hogan that they did do.

 

 

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Maybe Bischoff was afraid if they held off Goldberg/Hogan until Starrcade, Hogan would find an excuse not to do the job.

[Gert T 0]

Plus Goldie could have had PPV matches with Hall & Nash leading up to Hogan.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

There were plenty of guys they could have paired Hogan up with against that summer and fall, without even bringing in Warrior. Hogan/DDP never did get that singles match (that I'm aware of anyways). Hogan/Nash was something that should have been done anyways, after the split in the NWO. Hogan/Hart was a dream match at the time. Flair was back in September and they did that match in early 1999 anyways. There was a number of things they could have done there.

 

Goldberg could have spent the summer against the Flock before moving on to the NWO in the fall. Goldberg/Giant was the obvious match there. Then put Goldberg over huge in the World War III Battle Royale and do Hogan/Goldberg at Starrcade in pretty much the exact same match that they had at the Georgia Dome in real life. WCW had perhaps the best roster ever assembled in 1998. It wouldn't have been difficult finding things for the top performers to do.

[cabbageboy 0]

Kahran, you pretty much nailed it with that. I was mostly using what they ended up doing anyway, with the Warrior being involved and all that. I mean Hogan and DDP could have had a match at HH 98, with Goldberg vs. either The Giant or maybe Jericho in a US title program. They could maybe have used someone with the huge size of The Giant to get the US title off Goldberg before the Hogan feud, in some screwjob deal of course. It gets the streak off his back going into the world title feud, and also would give Goldberg a serious drawing feud with Giant when he wins the belt.

 

Basically with some foresight WCW could have kept making major money.

[King Kamala 0]

It's astonishing how much WCW screwed up in '98. That was, in my mind, the greatest roster in professional wrestling history. The only ones that come close are some of the WWF rosters of the mid 80s and the WWF/E roster around '02. There were so many paths WCW could have taken that would have made them serious mint and they took almost none of them.

 

 

I know we all love to bitch about the current product, be it WWE or TNA but there will never ever be a more frustrating wrestling promotion than World Championship Wrestling. Reading about its downfall is somehow simultaneously amusing, enfuriating, and depressing. I guess the AWA's demise came close but their downfall was a gradual process over the course of six or so years while WCW went from the hottest wrestling company in the world to going out of business in a little under three.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I was pretty shocked when Goldberg won the title. I figured Bill was going to win by DQ so Hogan would keep the belt and Goldberg kept the Streak intact. It's a shame they used it on Nitro because it would've been the perfect main event for Bash At The Beach, much better than that crap tag team match they had instead. Ugh.