Campaign 2008: Canadian Version

[dubq 0]

So, there's an election on October 14th!

 

I know who I'm voting for, do you?

 

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_26602.aspx

Top 10 Main Election Issues

Monday September 8, 2008

 

It shouldn't surprise you that Liberal leader Stephane Dion calls this 'the most important vote in Canadian history.' Every leader of every party has at some point in past elections used the same phrase. But there's little doubt that there's a definite difference between the candidates this time around that we don't often get to see.

 

Here's a look at some of the issues that may loom large this go-round.

 

1) The economy

 

You've heard that old canard that when the U.S. sneezes, Canada catches a cold. Well, our neighbour to the south is full of sniffles these days, and Ontario workers have that achy feeling. With the auto industry in turmoil and jobs disappearing from this province, this could be the biggest single issue in Ontario.

 

Liberal leader Stephane Dion has already taken a page from Ronald Reagan's handbook, essentially asking 'are you better off now than you were two years ago?' The way you answer that question may well define who gets your check mark or your "X" on October 14th.

 

 

 

2) Taxes

 

It's become the number one quiver in the Conservative arsenal: offer always over-taxed voters cuts in the amount of levies they have to pay to the federal government. Expect the Tories to hammer away at the issue and remind you they chopped the GST as they promised. And don't be surprised to hear them tell you that Stephane Dion is primarily campaigning on the Green Shift plan - a program few really understand but which opponents will paint as a tax you can't afford.

 

 

 

3) The environment

 

It's always an issue, but rarely has it ever been as prominent as it is this time. Stephane Dion has made it the centerpiece of his platform and both the NDP and Green Party will be harping on it, too. Except them all to remind you that the Conservatives failed to live up to Canada's commitments to the Kyoto Protocol, which we signed under the Grits in April 1998 but Stephen Harper deemed impossible to carry out.

 

 

 

4) Leadership

 

A big issue with many. One recent poll seemed to suggest that most Canadians asked didn't really seem very impressed with any of the party leaders, with the NDP's Jack Layton coming out on top of Stephen Harper over who would be the best leader. All three of the major party bosses may be vulnerable on this issue and voters could well be casting a ballot more against than in favour of a specific candidate.

 

 

 

5) Gas prices

 

They're the highest they've ever been and they could play a role in the vote. Many drivers are already openly wondering why the Conservatives refused to at least temporarily lower taxes on gas as the prices climbed ever higher. While things have improved slightly, they're far from cheap and with hurricanes, tensions in the Middle East and OPEC countries threatening to cut supply, they could go back up again at any time.

 

The Conservatives and some financial experts have long claimed that cutting gas taxes wouldn't significantly alter the price, but that may not be something many constituents will either believe or want to hear. And those who make their living on the road may make this a major issue.

 

But with world markets having most of the say, the other parties don't really have an answer for this problem either, a vulnerability for all of them.

 

 

 

6) Health care

 

This one seems to have taken a back seat to the others, and it's not the high priority it has been in past elections. But it's not out of sight or out of mind - there are still thousands and thousands of Canadians who don't have a family doctor in this country and don't know where to find one. And the waiting list at hospitals and for tests is still too long.

 

 

 

7) Afghanistan

 

With the death of the 97th Canadian overseas and our soldiers scheduled to remain there until 2011, there could be growing pressure brought to bear over this issue. The NDP is already on record as opposing our involvement. And with each death, some of the questions surrounding our presence get a little louder.

 

 

 

8) Crime

 

The Conservative crime bill passed in the House of Commons, and is supposed to allow police and the legal system to crack down harder on law breakers. Some argue it's too tough, others that it's not harsh enough. Those in the big cities, where violent crimes are more likely to take place on a regular basis, may see this as an issue to grill all the parties on as the campaign wears on.

 

 

 

9) The Toronto Factor

 

As local and provincial politicians agitate for more support from the federal government for Canada's once proud economic engine, voters here may bluntly demand to know: what's in it for us? The Conservatives have a reputation for ignoring Toronto and the city has fallen into the red, having a tough time maintaining vital services like infrastructure.

 

If the Harper government hopes to have even a shot at a majority, it will have to convince those in the 416 that they matter - and this time, they may have to prove it before the big vote.

 

 

 

10) Nationalism

 

For the first time in a long time, the spectre of Quebec separation isn't a huge issue. The 'we're leaving' noises that often emanate from La Belle Province have been ramped down in recent years, as the downturn in the economy takes its toll everywhere. The Conservatives are gaining in that province, although not enough to beat the Bloc.

 

But it's the status of the once impregnable Liberals there that may well tell the final tale of this election. And while Stephane Dion is better known in Quebec than in the rest of Canada, that doesn't mean he's well liked.

 

Just like the Ontario and Toronto factors, the outcome may well rest with how many Tories and how many Liberals find a seat in this game of political musical chairs in our neighbour to the east.

[At Home 0]

I do love America, but Canada just seems like a much better option at times.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The environment should be the most important issue, but instead it's the economy mirroring US fears.

 

I don't read enough Canadian news amnd political propaganda to be as informed as I'd like to be (and it doesn't help that BQ's English site sort of reflects not giving a rat's ass about anglophones), but at the meantime I guess I'd like to see NDP make some gains. Dion needs to just go ahead and work with them, and the only thing that will stop Harper from turning his party into a Canadian version of the American GOP is for Conservative moderates to take the platform back.

 

That's really what's best for the country, for the red Tories that left when PC was absorbed to go back and string Harper up by needing their support.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I know who I'm voting for - well, I know what party. I don't know who's running in the riding yet.

 

I hope Harper gets the boot.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I'd always been somewhere between Liberal and NDP. I took a hard swing left after AdScam three years ago, and like it over here.

 

I don't think most voters are as party-loyal as I am at this point, so leadership and presentation are going to be a big issue. With that, I don't think the Liberals can win, given how weasel-y Stephane Dion is. (John Kerry is not the current U.S. president for much the same reason). I also think this is the first time ever the NDP have a legitimate shot at a minority government. At this point, Jack Layton is well-established enough that he can be the alternative for the Canadian left, which I think many Canadians inherently are.

 

As discussed with my moderate grandparents last week, I do not dislike Stephen Harper, but I simply do not agree with his vision for this country. Again, like I said, a lot of voters, in my opinion, do not base their vote on a staunch ideology the way I do. To Harpers' benefit, even if the GST cut was small, it is symbolic: He did what he said he would. On the other hand, using the Dion-Reagan idea: I'm a lower-middle class Canadian. Harper's campaign centred around helping me through tax cuts. The only two times I've ever had to pay at tax time was the two years he's been in power, and it's totalled nearly three thousand dollars. I know it's circumstantial based on working two jobs at a time, etc., but what if I had a child? That three grand has been more than 10% of my income per year.

 

Also, I was tied up most of today and yesterday, but I planned to create and subtitle this thread "Hyper-election mode!"

[CanadianChris 0]

There is absolutely zero chance of the NDP winning a minority. They have no base in Quebec, and voters in Ontario still haven't forgotten the Rae government of the mid-90s. And you can't form the government without Ontario or Quebec.

 

Myself, I'm probably voting Green. My wife and I are both federal public servants, and we both see firsthand how power-hungry and hypercontrolling Stephen Harper is. I think Stephane Dion is a goof who's going to be replaced following this election, and seeing him as PM makes me ill. And I wouldn't vote for the tax-and spend NDP if my life depended on it.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

and voters in Ontario still haven't forgotten the Rae government of the mid-90s

 

Point extremely well-taken, but I'm banking on younger voter turn-out, where they don't know of the Rae mess, and the NDP's stance on social issues.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

There is absolutely zero chance of the NDP winning a minority. They have no base in Quebec, and voters in Ontario still haven't forgotten the Rae government of the mid-90s. And you can't form the government without Ontario or Quebec.

 

Myself, I'm probably voting Green. My wife and I are both federal public servants, and we both see firsthand how power-hungry and hypercontrolling Stephen Harper is. I think Stephane Dion is a goof who's going to be replaced following this election, and seeing him as PM makes me ill. And I wouldn't vote for the tax-and spend NDP if my life depended on it.

In the last election, Green's policy was to simply defer to Dion and NDP was the only real left-wing protest vote that actually would hurt Dion. I have no idea if that's still the same.

 

As far as tax and spend, well, that's a pretty catchall phrase. So long as taxation is progressive and the government isn't running deficits, taxing and spending is fiscally responsible, if not under everyone's idea of conservative. Down south, it's the only way we're going to be able to get out of this hole we're burning in China. However, didn't Canada hit it's first deficit in forever just recently?

[cbacon 0]

As an NDP supporter, i'm really disappointed with Jack Layton's decision to oppose Elizabeth May participating in the debates.

[NYU 0]

Edited the title to avoid confusion when looking at the Current Events folder from the main forum page.

 

Because I got confused.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'm not Harper fan but his "Lettting May into the debate would be like have a second Liberal" line was fucking pwnage.

 

Goddamn if I'm voting Liberal in this one. Dion is more or less the definition of a pussy and Layton's too seedy. Plus I despise Olivia Chow.

[CanadianChris 0]

There is absolutely zero chance of the NDP winning a minority. They have no base in Quebec, and voters in Ontario still haven't forgotten the Rae government of the mid-90s. And you can't form the government without Ontario or Quebec.

 

Myself, I'm probably voting Green. My wife and I are both federal public servants, and we both see firsthand how power-hungry and hypercontrolling Stephen Harper is. I think Stephane Dion is a goof who's going to be replaced following this election, and seeing him as PM makes me ill. And I wouldn't vote for the tax-and spend NDP if my life depended on it.

In the last election, Green's policy was to simply defer to Dion and NDP was the only real left-wing protest vote that actually would hurt Dion. I have no idea if that's still the same.

Dion wasn't the leader last election, Martin was. I don't have a problem with the Liberal policies; I have a problem with Dion becoming the leader of our country.

 

As far as tax and spend, well, that's a pretty catchall phrase. So long as taxation is progressive and the government isn't running deficits, taxing and spending is fiscally responsible, if not under everyone's idea of conservative. Down south, it's the only way we're going to be able to get out of this hole we're burning in China. However, didn't Canada hit it's first deficit in forever just recently?

Only for a month or two. We haven't posted an annual deficit since the mid-90s.

 

Frankly, I don't support a tax-and spend mindset because I think my taxes are quite high enough.

[cbacon 0]

Canada has been constantly cutting taxes for the past fifteen years, we don't need to keep doing it. Taxes in Canada are already among the lowest in the first world, we don't need lower taxes.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Dion wasn't the leader last election, Martin was. I don't have a problem with the Liberal policies; I have a problem with Dion becoming the leader of our country.

 

I always liked Martin;

 

Anyway, I think you summed up the mindset of about 75% of Canadian voters. For the first time ever in the '06 election, not a single riding in the Hamilton area elected a Liberal MP; I don't see that changing this year.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Dion wasn't the leader last election, Martin was. I don't have a problem with the Liberal policies; I have a problem with Dion becoming the leader of our country.

Er, wasn't there an election of some sort of election over the winter? That's the one I'm talking about, not the one where Harper replaced Martin.

 

I kind of talk about Canadian politics half-blind, going only by what I see on The National, but it's because I'm interested so help me out here. (blush)

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

No worries. The Liberal leadership convention, which it sounds like what you were thinking of, was December 2006. Stephane Dion surprisingly won, beating expected victor Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae. Paul Martin retired shortly after the January '06 federal election loss.

 

Here's what I'm ashamed of. I don't remember when the convention started, or how it worked. I do remember that Dion was named new leader on a Saturday night at about 6:45 eastern, as Ron MacLean mentioned it during the hockey pre-game. Montreal beat Toronto 4-3 that night in a shootout. The winning goal was scored in the seventh round by Sheldon Souray.

 

I probably remember that so vividly for a few reasons: One, my grandfather is blind and a little uncomfortable away from familiar surroundings, so he rarely watched hockey at my place. This was an exception. I also had some buddies over for a Madden tournament that day, and they watched Two Girls, One Cup between games. It may not have been TG, OC (I've never actually seen it, but have put two and two together), but the reaction was similar.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

No, I wasn't thinking of that either.

 

Let me put it this way: I download episodes of Rick Mercer's CBC show, and around January or Feburary near the end of his last cycle he made a reference to a memo from Liberal leadership that was so defeatist it telling MPs to make sure their offices are clean. It was sorta just before NAFTA-gate, I think.

 

That was when I remember hearing a lot of "I'm voting Green" "Green's position is to support Dion" "Aw shit."

[ZGangsta 0]

I can't bring myself to vote for the current incarnation of the Liberal party so it'll probably be NDP. I'm already throwing up over the possibility of Harper getting a majority.

 

There's no one in the world I'd like to slap more than Stephen Harper. Just something about his face.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

His new commercials rock. Sittin' by the fire, wearing a sweater, talkin' family shit. He's just an average joe.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I'm probably voting Lib but no one thrills me.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

His new commercials rock. Sittin' by the fire, wearing a sweater, talkin' family shit. He's just an average joe.

The other weekend I saw his commercials plugged into CTV News (there's no National on weekend, and the other shows aren't streamed or are poorly streamed, so I go with that one instead). They were very much "vote Harper" instead of "vote Conservative."

 

How American of him.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

This isn't meant as a shot at Harper, but in 2006, he didn't really campaign on promises or points, just kinda "I'm me, don't vote Liberal", which I'm seeing here as well. As I've tried to say, I don't dislike Harper, but I'd never vote for a Tory. JotW was spot on; he's the most identifiable of all the party leaders, especially given how many playoff games he was at during the Oilers and Sens runs to the finals.

 

The idea of a majority for any party seems unlikely. I envision something around:

 

Roughly 90 seats apiece for the Grits and Tories.

Roughly 50 seats apiece for the NDP and Bloc.

25 or so for the Green.

 

[ZGangsta 0]

Whoah, you really think the Green party will pick up 25 seats?

[dubq 0]

"Liberal leader Stephane Dion has already taken a page from Ronald Reagan's handbook, essentially asking 'are you better off now than you were two years ago?"

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Libs really need a plan that's quicker to action than "wait for Justin Trudeau to get into politics."

 

Posts like the one above me really say why. The libertarian anti-tax attitudes of America will seep into Canada with enough time.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Whoah, you really think the Green party will pick up 25 seats?

 

25 might be high, but I think they'll show pretty strongly; they're clearly the most concerned with the environment. That's really all I know about them, but that might be enough to win them some seats.

[ZGangsta 0]

Whoah, you really think the Green party will pick up 25 seats?

 

25 might be high, but I think they'll show pretty strongly; they're clearly the most concerned with the environment. That's really all I know about them, but that might be enough to win them some seats.

I'd say they'll be lucky to pick up more than 1 or 2. They'll get a lot more support this year because people are a lot more concerned with the environment than other years, and the leader is part of the telivised debates this time. But this party has never had an MP elected before and they definately don't have much money.

I think they'll be more and more of a force as the years go on, especially if they get over that hump of actually getting someone elected to parliament, but that 25 seats number, no offense to you, is batshit insane.

 

My gut feeling as of right now is:

-there will be a majority for the Conservatives (which scares the shit out of me)

-the Liberals will lose big

-the NDP will have big gains

-Bloc takes a couple losses

-Green picks up 1 seat

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I think unless the Liberals pull off some kind of miracle here Dion is cooked. I see the Tory's making decent inroads in Quebec this time around too with the NDP finishing much better then the previous election.

[dubq 0]

Libs really need a plan that's quicker to action than "wait for Justin Trudeau to get into politics."

 

Posts like the one above me really say why. The libertarian anti-tax attitudes of America will seep into Canada with enough time.

 

Welp...

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Well, if it makes any difference - I'd never vote for a Federal Liberal, no matter what his surname may be, anyway.

Don't you feel like a lonely man in Toronto? Most people I know there are in the "I would never vote for someone who would promise to not raise taxes" / "paying taxes is just my patriotic duty" kind of mindset to some degree or another.

 

Of course, the guy I know who actually lives in the real city and not in the burbs doesn't vote because everything's swung so hard to one way or another that it'd be pointless, according to him.

 

but sometimes there's this real twinge of facism that comes out of there,

I know Harper's is the least transparent government of just about all time up there. Strict discipline regarding staying on message and simply not saying anything if it's not your place to is kept to 2003-2006 era GOP standards.

 

That anti-P2P bill they spent six months creating FUD about before just throwing it out there to die at the end of Parliament didn't help matters either. Who were they trying to fool?