The US Economy and Current Financial Crisis

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Hahaha oh my God the House GOP leadership is trying to argue that Republicans didn't vote for this thing because Nancy Pelosi hurt their feelings.

 

Several Republican aides said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had torpedoed any spirit of bipartisanship that surrounded the bill with her scathing speech near the close of the debate that blamed Bush's policies for the economic turmoil.

 

Without mentioning her by name, Rep. Adam Putnam, R-Fla., No. 3 Republican, said: "The partisan tone at the end of the debate today I think did impact the votes on our side."

Putnam said lawmakers were working "to garner the necessary votes to avoid a financial collapse."

 

But the defeat was already causing a brutal round of finger-pointing.

 

"We could have gotten there today had it not been for the partisan speech that the speaker gave on the floor of the House," House Minority Leader John Boehner said. Pelosi's words, the Ohio Republican said, "poisoned our conference, caused a number of members that we thought we could get, to go south."

 

Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., the whip, estimated that Pelosi's speech changed the minds of a dozen Republicans who might otherwise have supported the plan.

 

This is just incredibly pathetic.

[naiwf 0]

Some Republican douchebag on CNBC is saying that he voted against the bill because he's not comfortable with leaving his "daughter with a historic amount of debt". Every other sentence was "fiscal conservative", or "the Democrats could pass this without our support but didn't, but I'm not trying to politicize this". The analysts kept explaining to him that his daughter was part of the economy that is pretty close to seizing up, but all he kept doing was replying with spin, spin and more spin. At the end of the segment he said that he was optimistic about something getting done by Thursday, but his whole argument was that he's ideologically opposed to leaving his daughter with debt. Now how is a deal going to get done with three days of Jewish holidays coming up and an entire voting bloc being fundamentally against what the proposal is all about in the first place? The economy is going to tank violently over the rest of this week and I'm sure that the average person out there who is against this is going to be THRILLED when they lose their jobs/can't find jobs, can't get credit or essentially lose the majority of their life savings because they're opposed to a couple of rich bastards getting bailed out. Only in America will we gladly cut off everyone's noses to spite our own faces.

 

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Hahaha oh my God the House GOP leadership is trying to argue that Republicans didn't vote for this thing because Nancy Pelosi hurt their feelings.

 

:lol: :lol:

buncha pussies.

[ZGangsta 0]

Yeah that inspires confidence doesn't it.

So what they're saying is that all these Republicans were GOING to vote for the bill (thought the bill was fine and everything), were GOING to do what it takes to save the economy, but then Pelosi went up and said some mean things about George W.

So either two-thirds of the Republicans in the house are complete hacks who would vote against an insanely important bill just out of spite, or they're lying and never planned on supporting the bill in the first place and are now PRETENDING that they didn't vote for it because of spite.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Either way, we've got a long way to go until we hit Great Depression status. It's a recession with a market crisis, but it's no depression. The Great Depression was made worse when international trade collapsed overnight thanks to the Hawley-Smoot Tariff. Not to mention that our unemployment hasn't reached double digits.

 

Depressions don't happen overnight. But the wheels are definitely turning in that direction.

 

Got to love the rhetoric about "Oh my god $700 billion" being too much money, and then the market crashes and $1.2 trillion is lost in a day. You have to admire the foresight and vision of our members of Congress.

[KingPK 0]

The best part of the near 778 point drop was that it followed people on CNN last night claiming that the market was about to turn around and that some major deals were probably going to get done since we were on the right track. The House Republicans just took it to the average American with a nightstick and no lube. Gotta love politicians trying to get re-elected instead of helping out the people who elected them in the first place. This shit is awesome.

 

94 Democrats voted against it as well. Where's the vitriol for them? Seems like neither party's members were completely satisfied about this bill.

Edited September 29, 2008 by KingPK

[naiwf 0]

The best part of the near 778 point drop was that it followed people on CNN last night claiming that the market was about to turn around and that some major deals were probably going to get done since we were on the right track. The House Republicans just took it to the average American with a nightstick and no lube. Gotta love politicians trying to get re-elected instead of helping out the people who elected them in the first place. This shit is awesome.

 

94 Democrats voted against it as well. Where's the vitriol for them? Seems like neither party's members were completely satisfied about this bill.

 

The people asking for the bailout are members of the failed Republican administration. The House Republicans are saying the Dems could just force the bill through, but then they would block it up in the Senate. The Republicans who are causing all of the problems don't want to lose their seats in November and that's why they're against it. It has nothing to do with principles. The Democrats don't have nearly as much to lose or gain here politically which is why roughly 2/3 of them voted for it while roughly 2/3 of Republicans voted against it.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

The best part of the near 778 point drop was that it followed people on CNN last night claiming that the market was about to turn around and that some major deals were probably going to get done since we were on the right track. The House Republicans just took it to the average American with a nightstick and no lube. Gotta love politicians trying to get re-elected instead of helping out the people who elected them in the first place. This shit is awesome.

 

94 Democrats voted against it as well. Where's the vitriol for them? Seems like neither party's members were completely satisfied about this bill.

 

From what I understand, Pelosi promised to deliver ~120 votes if Boehner could scrounge up 80. Nobody actually liked this bill, but the Democrats were willing to play ball to get something passed. Now, the incentive to compromise is gone and if the Dems had any balls they'd cook up a hardline progressive bill that includes provisions for temporarily nationalizing the failed banks, rush it through on a party-line vote, and dare the administration to veto it.

[ZGangsta 0]

The best part of the near 778 point drop was that it followed people on CNN last night claiming that the market was about to turn around and that some major deals were probably going to get done since we were on the right track. The House Republicans just took it to the average American with a nightstick and no lube. Gotta love politicians trying to get re-elected instead of helping out the people who elected them in the first place. This shit is awesome.

 

94 Democrats voted against it as well. Where's the vitriol for them? Seems like neither party's members were completely satisfied about this bill.

No didn't you hear? The bill was great and was going to go through but then Nancy Pelosi was mean so 2/3 of the Republicans had to put a stop to those shenannigans.

 

 

Edit: Also, is it just me or does W look like he's aged like 20 years in the last month?

[SuperJerk 0]

Two-thirds of the Republicans voted against it, I don't think they were interested in making a statement against the president.

 

But can you think of a better way for a group of Republican Congressmen way to get re-elected than to seperate themselves from an unpopular president?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Republican Party is fractured. The Republicans that went against this bill did so as a statement against Bush and the party line of the past eight years. There is an attempt to being made to rebrand the party as truly "conservative." The bailout is viewed by this group as the last vestige of the Bush years. Today was a clear example of political ideology winning out over the people's best interest.

[SuperJerk 0]

Ideology, or expedience? This bail-out was very unpopular.

 

I'd say there's a good chance Congress will reconvene shortly after the election and pass the bill, when Congressmen's jobs aren't at stake.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Ideology, or expedience? This bail-out was very unpopular.

 

I'd say there's a good chance Congress will reconvene shortly after the election and pass the bill, when Congressmen's jobs aren't at stake.

 

After the election? A couple more days of the stock market wiping out everyone's personal wealth and you'd think that timeliness would outweigh political machinations. Then again, I'm the same fool who thought that this bill would fly through.

 

I think we are all leery of $700 billion of debt, not to mention the notion of the US government being landowners. It's scary, and the rhetoric of a "bailout" isn't the helping the cause. Bu the fact of the matter is our economy needs this to go through to prevent an utter financial collapse that rivals the Great Depression. Is it a band-aid on a severed limb? Most likely yes. Doesn't change the fact that we still need available credit for our markets to function, lest we usher in the era of double digit unemployment, unprecedented inflation and maybe much worse...

[Guest]

Why don't we just institute full-blown socialism while we're at it? Did you guys read the comment from a government official that says they didn't determine the 700 billion dollar amount based on any hard data? They said they just chose it because it was a really large number. What the fuck is that shit.

 

We need to go through this. Too many people indulge in excess spending, put everything on credit, now it's time to pay. The hard way. Want to buy something, save up for it. Society doesn't work that way anymore, but now, we're going to have to learn.

 

Nobody even knows if a bailout is going to work. You guys have faith in the government to get this shit right? Please. You guys know Paulson was head of the companies that helped fuck this shit up. He sure knows how to get it right.

 

Delay the inevitable some more. Throw 700 billion dollars at something else. That'll get us real far. The Fannie and Freddie shit sure did. So did the AIG bailout. My congressman voted for the bailout. I'm not voting for him on Election Day. No more band-aids. Just get this shit over with.

 

I know some of us are going to lose jobs, but that's life. Don't vote for the people who got us in this mess and attempted to prolong it further with stupid, misguided legislation.

[SuperJerk 0]

909, I hate to break this to you, my friend, but...

 

 

"We're all Keynsians now."

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Im actually glad they didnt pass it today. They took what was a bad bill last week and turned it into a horrendous pile of crap over the weekend. Did they really need to add the part about bailing out Unions and their pension plans that they wont be able to pay for in a couple years? NO. Biggest example of the government trying to be everyone's hero in this and its not what is needed right now.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

It doesn't particulary matter if the $700 billion was an accurate amount of money to solve the problem. In fact, the true amount of bad debt out there might be closer to $2 trillion. What does matter is that it will allow confidence in our markets to return and open up the freeze on credit. Getting this shit over with, as you put it, might require 5-10 years of unbelievable economic conditions. Is that really necessary? A short-term stand against big government causes 300 million people to suffer?

 

Guess what, 909, I lost thousands of dollars in savings today because this bailout didn't go through. I'm in real danger of losing a six figure job that I am very good at, solely because the markets that I work in rely on the availability of credit. I own a home (with a real 20% down mortgage) and don't have one dime to my name in credit card debt. Why in the fuck should I have to suffer?

[SuperJerk 0]

Im actually glad they didnt pass it today. They took what was a bad bill last week and turned it into a horrendous pile of crap over the weekend. Did they really need to add the part about bailing out Unions and their pension plans that they wont be able to pay for in a couple years? NO. Biggest example of the government trying to be everyone's hero in this and its not what is needed right now.

Whatever IQ enhancing drug Marvin was taking when he posted this has obviously worn off.

[Guest]

It doesn't particulary matter if the $700 billion was an accurate amount of money to solve the problem. In fact, the true amount of bad debt out there might be closer to $2 trillion. What does matter is that it will allow confidence in our markets to return and open up the freeze on credit. Getting this over with, as you put it, might require 5-10 years of unbelievable economic conditions. Is that really necessary? A short-term stand against big government causes 280 million people to suffer?

 

This bill could also just delay the beginning of our suffering for six months. Maybe a year or two. It's going to happen. Lenders and borrowers should have made sure to keep credit within the means of the borrower. The AIG bailout was supposed to restore confidence in the market, and it didn't do a thing. The Bear Stearns bailout as well. The confidence after Bear Stearns lasted what, a month or two? If that. The government helped push us into this situation by pushing banks into lending to anyone with a pulse. Both Republicans and Democrats. It doesn't really matter what letter sits next to their name, I don't trust them to do anything. They don't need to interfere in our market. They did enough damage, and then compounded it by throwing taxpayer money at a bad situation.

 

Guess what, 909, I lost thousands of dollars in savings today because this bailout didn't go through. I'm in real danger of losing a six figure job that I am very good at, solely because the markets that I work in rely of availability of credit. I own a home (with a real 20% down mortgage) and don't have one dime to my name in credit card debt. Why in the fuck should I have to suffer?

 

I'm sorry, it isn't your fault, but rather the failings of your fellow man and our country. I don't really know what to say. Are you one of the best in your field? There will be jobs out there, if in fact you are. They will be so sparse that only the best will get them.

[2GOLD 0]

 

In short, a bunch of people fucked up and now we are all fucked. This is looking like one of those "we're fucked either way, pick which end of the stick you want up your backside" deals.

 

 

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Im actually glad they didnt pass it today. They took what was a bad bill last week and turned it into a horrendous pile of crap over the weekend. Did they really need to add the part about bailing out Unions and their pension plans that they wont be able to pay for in a couple years? NO. Biggest example of the government trying to be everyone's hero in this and its not what is needed right now.

Whatever IQ enhancing drug Marvin was taking when he posted this has obviously worn off.

That was posted before I learned off all the extra baggage that was added to the bill. They didnt need to bail out people and their pensions that won't be able to pay out in a couple years. Pensions have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the current problem. Yes, they will be a problem, but this bill isn't the time to decide "Oh, people won't have pensions in a few years, lets go help them out to while we're dealing with the whole economic meltdown".

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

You dudes who are suggesting that the government should just stand back and let THE MARKET work this out on its own seem to be forgetting that it was the completely unfettered workings of the free market that got us into this shitpile in the first place. If ever there was a time for massive government intervention in the public sector it's now.

 

Thankfully, the Republicans just blew every last shred of political capital they ever had and so now hopefully the Democrats can get an actual good bill passed instead of just a makesh--hahaha yeah right.

[Gary Floyd 0]

In short, a bunch of people fucked up and now we are all fucked. This is looking like one of those "we're fucked either way, pick which end of the stick you want up your backside" deals.

 

Pretty much.

[Guest]

You dudes who are suggesting that the government should just stand back and let THE MARKET work this out on its own seem to be forgetting that it was the completely unfettered workings of the free market that got us into this shitpile in the first place. If ever there was a time for massive government intervention in the public sector it's now.

Yes, massive government intervention in the form of regulations. Not in the form of taxpayer dollars. If private capital is staying on the sidelines, this must be pretty fucking bad.

 

Thankfully, the Republicans just blew every last shred of political capital they ever had and so now hopefully the Democrats can get an actual really good bill passed instead of just a makeshift (hahaha yeah right).

It's the exact opposite. The public hated this shitty bill and will reward those who voted against it.

[At Home 0]

Jesus Christ you people are acting like we're all going to have to fucking eat each other in order to survive the next 6 months.

[2GOLD 0]

It just sucks that every plan they will come up with depends on the American public not doing anything stupid. But to get the economy back, they have to spend. To spend, they'll need to either have a job that allows them to afford bills, food, housing payments as well as luxuries or they will need to build up a massive credit bill. Then a lot of them will get in over their heads again, get another loan they can't afford and repeat the process.

 

Then people like Cheech and tons of the rest of us will be screwed as it all collapses in on itself. I really want to know what ever happened to "Bad credit? No credit? Well f*ck you a*shole!" method of money lending.

 

And yes, I do support the bailout now because I know we have no other option. Just not very confident in this Jenga style of fixing the problem.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Jesus Christ you people are acting like we're all going to have to fucking eat each other in order to survive the next 6 months.

Well food will probably get pretty expensive..

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

The public hated this shitty bill and will reward those who voted against it.

 

Poll numbers!

 

As Congress prepares to vote on a proposed economic rescue plan, opposition to the measure has declined significantly. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey conducted Sunday found that 33% of Likely Voters now favor the plan while 32% are opposed and 35% are not sure.

 

[...]

 

While voters are unsure about the particular plan agreed to by Congress and the Administration, 49% say it’s Very Important that some kind of plan be implemented. Another 29% say it’s Somewhat Important to do so.

 

And I'm sure public opinion has shifted a bit more ever since the bill's failure led directly to $1.2 trillion in losses on the stock market.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ you people are acting like we're all going to have to fucking eat each other in order to survive the next 6 months.

Well, it'll never get that bad, but if people want to buy shit like a big screen TV or a car, they're going to have to save up cash to do it. And unemployment will go way up.

 

Well food will probably get pretty expensive..

 

I doubt that. When the economy goes down, oil will go down. So food will go down, or it'll stay the same. Otherwise we'll have a revolution.

[SuperJerk 0]

Im actually glad they didnt pass it today. They took what was a bad bill last week and turned it into a horrendous pile of crap over the weekend. Did they really need to add the part about bailing out Unions and their pension plans that they wont be able to pay for in a couple years? NO. Biggest example of the government trying to be everyone's hero in this and its not what is needed right now.

Whatever IQ enhancing drug Marvin was taking when he posted this has obviously worn off.

That was posted before I learned off all the extra baggage that was added to the bill. They didnt need to bail out people and their pensions that won't be able to pay out in a couple years. Pensions have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the current problem. Yes, they will be a problem, but this bill isn't the time to decide "Oh, people won't have pensions in a few years, lets go help them out to while we're dealing with the whole economic meltdown".

 

The pension money

somewhere. It was invested. So this has everything to do with pensions.

 

Please go back and read what you originally wrote and maybe you can talk some sense into yourself.

 

 

 

 

edit: Mystery solved. I was watching Glenn Beck just now, and guess who else is suddenly against the bail-out.

 

edit 2, electric boogaloo: I was watching Larry King, and Suzie Orman looked like she was mad enough to pnch somebody because this didn't pass.

Edited September 30, 2008 by SuperJerk