Manitoba Greyhound Bus Murder

[bob_barron 0]

I think people would be more willing to agree with you re: PETA sucking, if you dropped the whole Westboro comparison

[Jingus 0]

I never even said they were the exact same level of scumminess. "Barely a step above" were my exact words, iirc. Clearly picketing a whole bunch of funerals is worse than throwing red paint on people wearing leather or making annoying posters. But in trying to hijack the bus murder victim's fate for their own goals, PETA does approach being in the same ballpark in this instance.

[mfn 0]

Ah yes, when you've got absolutely no argument whatsoever and you've completely lost, go for the pointless (and currently inaccurate) personal insults in order to distract everyone from your bullshit statements.

1) He does have any argument whatsoever, namely that PETA means well if not acts well

2) Given that he bothered to articulate a point while you just said they're barely better than Fred Phelps, he has not been awarded a "loss"

3) The enormity of the aforementioned comparison drags the discourse so low that you can hardly say an ad hominem is out of bounds

4) None of the declarative sentences (that is, statements) in his post:

a) I don't think animal rights is a bullshit cause

b) PETA is annoying but their heart is in the right place

c) comparing them to the Westboros is ridiculous and small-minded

appears to be bullshit.

 

In short, you've made one of the most useless posts ever. You're the shit! (For the win!)

 

you're so cool bro.

 

[EricMM 0]

Don't wear furs > humane treatment of animals in life > meat is murder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God hates fags.

 

I'm willing to put that out there as a truth I believe to be self evident.

 

Whether or not all of those things are less than zero, fine. But one of those things is not like the other.

[Guest Vitamin X]

No, I'd say the humane treatment of animals in life > Don't wear furs. It should be one of those basic moral values like, "Don't steal or harm people" or some shit, really.

 

Who would've thought this thread would turn into Czech siding with Eric defending PETA?

[At Home 0]

Their job is to advocate animal rights, and to do so by hitting the public at times like these.

 

At times like these? At times when a man is brutally beheaded on a bus by a clearly mentally unstable nut wielding a knife? To take advantage of such a horrendous situation like this one is "their job"? These people are first and foremost human beings, and a rather deplorable lack of humility in the name of pushing their agenda leaves me almost in disbelief.

[dubq 0]

There's no excuse to defend PETA in this case or to defend whatever "point" they're trying to get across with this tasteless and pathetic ad. An ad, by the way, that is probably going to turn more people away from their cause than toward it.

 

Equating the life of a human being with that of a cow or a chicken is completely ridiculous.

[EricMM 0]

You haven't seen the videos about how they get those furs, have you?

[At Home 0]

Who gives a shit. You haven't seen those videos about the aborted fetuses right? You didn't see that article about the sinking of the Lusitania right? Those ads are meant to leave reason out and flood your senses. Anything that involves blood or ugly images gets to your mind way faster than reason and logic.

[dubq 0]

You haven't seen the videos about how they get those furs, have you?

Apparently you didn't see my post about working with PETA for 10 years. So yes, I've seen the videos. I've owned the videos. I've shown the videos to other people in attempts to "convert" them. I'm not saying that any of that stuff is okay, and this isn't about fur. It's about killing animals for food. Either way, logically you're not going to convince me that the life of an animal that's bred for food is on par with the life of a human being. Not gonna happen in a million fucking years, buddy.

 

 

 

I wonder when PETA is going to turn their ads to carnivorous animals in an attempt at convincing them to "GoVeg"

[At Home 0]

Amen to that.

[dubq 0]

Never. That's kind of the point. When they stop saying outrageous things, we'll stop reacting with outrage. PETA is barely a step above the Westboro Baptists in terms of publicity-seeking assholes who tirelessly crusade for a worthless cause and are really, really fun to hate.

Hey, funny you should mention that...

 

Westboro Baptists attempt to picket victim's funeral

 

At least we can stop some of these pieces of shit at the border.

 

 

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNe...8/?hub=CP24Home

 

Fri Aug. 08 2008 5:32:46 PM

Canadian border guards bar fundamentalist sect

 

Canadian border guards barred members of a fundamentalist American religious sect from entering the country after they announced plans to protest at the funeral of the man decapitated on a Greyhound bus.

 

The Westboro Baptist Church planned the protest to let Canadians know that the slaying of 22-year-old Tim McLean on July 30 was God's response to Canadian policies enabling abortion, homosexuality and adultery.

 

The Westboro group is known for protesting the funerals of American soldiers, as well as late actor Heath Ledger, who incurred its wrath for his performance in the film Brokeback Mountain, which featured a gay romance.

 

NDP MP Pat Martin says his office has been flooded with calls by Winnipeg residents disturbed by the group's protest plans.

 

"If they are here to disrupt the social order, that constitutes grounds to deny them entry," he told The Canadian Press.

 

"There is no redeeming virtue in the message they are bringing... In the opinion of his office, coming up here with the message they're articulating constitutes hate speech."

 

Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of church's founder, Fred Phelps, said a small group of protesters was stopped at the Canada-U.S. border Thursday afternoon.

 

"They won't let us in, but we have a group that will cross in another spot," she said.

 

"They'll have to strip search everyone who crosses that border or they won't know who we are. They'll have to see the WBC (Westboro Baptist Church) tattoo on our butts."

 

The group failed to show Thursday night for a scheduled protest of the opening night of Toronto playwright Alistair Newton's The Pastor Phelps Project, a fundamentalist cabaret that satirizes their leader's fervent anti-gay stance.

 

Members had also planned to picket on Friday night outside a performance of The Laramie Project in Red Deer, Alta. That play is based on the murder of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man in Wyoming.

 

Winnipeg police say they are not planning to block Westboro Church protesters if they get across the border, but are prepared to be on hand if necessary.

 

A counter-protest took place outside the performance in Red Deer, Alta., despite the absence of the Westboro group.

 

Over 100 people carried placards and signs bearing messages such as: "Keep your hate out of my Canada" and "God hates bigots."

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Their job is to advocate animal rights, and to do so by hitting the public at times like these.

 

At times like these? At times when a man is brutally beheaded on a bus by a clearly mentally unstable nut wielding a knife? To take advantage of such a horrendous situation like this one is "their job"? These people are first and foremost human beings, and a rather deplorable lack of humility in the name of pushing their agenda leaves me almost in disbelief.

 

 

There's no excuse to defend PETA in this case or to defend whatever "point" they're trying to get across with this tasteless and pathetic ad. An ad, by the way, that is probably going to turn more people away from their cause than toward it.

 

Equating the life of a human being with that of a cow or a chicken is completely ridiculous.

 

Hahaha the moral outrage in here is getting ridiculous. I mean, holy shit, this is a fucking newspaper ad we're talking about. One that didn't even make it to print! Who gives a shit if it's tasteless and stupid? The shrieking, hectoring responses that PETA (and the Westboro retards) elicits from idiots on the internet are in no way commensurate to the actual "offenses" committed by the group. Save your energy for shit that actually deserves protest.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Didn't our border guards let 9/11-related people through? Or was that a myth?

[Gary Floyd 0]

Am I the only guy who's tired of Westboro guys? I mean, it's not really that shocking that they are doing this since they do it all the time, and while bad, it's also incredibly predictable and therefore hard to get mad about.

[King Kamala 0]

I'm tired of people on the internet getting in an uproar about them. Yeah, their views are reprehensible and can't be defended but they aren't really going to do anything about them except stage more lame protests. There are a lot more worthy issues to get up in arms about.

[At Home 0]

Hahaha the moral outrage in here is getting ridiculous. I mean, holy shit, this is a fucking newspaper ad we're talking about. One that didn't even make it to print! Who gives a shit if it's tasteless and stupid? The shrieking, hectoring responses that PETA (and the Westboro retards) elicits from idiots on the internet are in no way commensurate to the actual "offenses" committed by the group. Save your energy for shit that actually deserves protest.

 

It's just a response. We're not running down the gas meter or anything like that. I'm not shrieking about it, I just think that it's a very tasteless thing to do and pretty shameful of the group, even if it never made it to print. There's no harm in me saying that, and it's pretty condescending to tell people to calm down and "save your energy" (you know, internet energy) for other things.

[Gary Floyd 0]

PETA tries to run ad comparing beheading to animal slaughter

 

What a bunch of sick, twisted fucks. Every time I think PETA can't sink any lower, something like this happens.

 

 

Uh. Look I'm all for treating animals well, and everything. But that's ridiculous. And pretty insulting to the guy's family.

 

Have PETA ever just came out and said 'Yes, we care about animals way more than humans'?

I've heard an interview with a PETA member who said if they had a chance between saving a human baby and a dog, they'd save the dog.

[CanadianChris 0]

If I had a choice between saving a PETA member and saving a dog, I'd save the PETA member just to piss them off.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I'd fuck the PETA member and eat the dog.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

PETA tries to run ad comparing beheading to animal slaughter

 

What a bunch of sick, twisted fucks. Every time I think PETA can't sink any lower, something like this happens.

 

 

Uh. Look I'm all for treating animals well, and everything. But that's ridiculous. And pretty insulting to the guy's family.

 

Have PETA ever just came out and said 'Yes, we care about animals way more than humans'?

I've heard an interview with a PETA member who said if they had a chance between saving a human baby and a dog, they'd save the dog.

 

I'd save the baby, but if I had a choice between saving a grown human and a dog I'd save the dog. The human can fend for himself/herself.

[At Home 0]

That's not what that hypothetical situation implies, and nevertheless that's a pretty fucking stupid response anyways. It's a dog. Not a human being. It's a dumb dog that doesn't know left from right. In a situation where one would die if it were not saved, you're telling me that you'd save a dog over a fellow human. I don't quite know how to flesh out my thoughts on this, considering that it's 2 AM for me now, but it's completely irresponsible to say that, in a pragmatic sense, humans and any kind of animal are on a level plane.

[Red Baron 0]

Didn't our border guards let 9/11-related people through? Or was that a myth?

 

But if they went back into the United States, their custom officers do a fairly lousy job. (and still do)

[dubq 0]

Hahaha the moral outrage in here is getting ridiculous. I mean, holy shit, this is a fucking newspaper ad we're talking about. One that didn't even make it to print! Who gives a shit if it's tasteless and stupid? The shrieking, hectoring responses that PETA (and the Westboro retards) elicits from idiots on the internet are in no way commensurate to the actual "offenses" committed by the group. Save your energy for shit that actually deserves protest.

 

It's just a response. We're not running down the gas meter or anything like that. I'm not shrieking about it, I just think that it's a very tasteless thing to do and pretty shameful of the group, even if it never made it to print. There's no harm in me saying that, and it's pretty condescending to tell people to calm down and "save your energy" (you know, internet energy) for other things.

 

Clearly Chilly Willy needs to direct his internet engery elsewhere.

[dubq 0]

First-hand account of the incident:

 

http://orato.com/current-events/2008/08/12...ound-bus-murder

 

My wife and I were headed down to Winnipeg, Manitoba, for school. Then the bus happened. I have found it very difficult since then.

 

We had started in the Northwest Territories and changed buses in Edmonton, Alberta, around midnight. At the time of the attack later that day, I was sitting with my wife on the bus in the third row from the back on the driver’s side, right across the aisle next to Mr. Li.

 

Mr. Li had boarded the bus in Brandon, Manitoba sometime between 5 and 7 p.m. the next day. I noticed Mr. Li right away, in fact very much so. He just seemed like a very weird person and all out of place. He was watching everyone that was on the bus, and seemed very paranoid.

 

Originally he’d been sitting at the front of the bus. When he moved to the back of the bus after a smoke break between Brandon and Winnipeg, he was looking at each and every person as he was walking, just watching everyone. Then he sat across the aisle from my wife and me.

 

I didn’t mention anything to my wife about my impression of him; I just kept it to myself. I’ve taken the bus many, many times, and have always noticed a fair few odd people on the bus.

 

Garnet Caton, who was one of the first witnesses interviewed, told the media he heard a bloodcurdling scream. The scream was coming from Tim. I heard it as well, but at that point I was already up to the front of the bus. I had actually seen Mr. Li pull out the knife and stab Tim. Sitting right there, I had been the first person to see stuff.

 

I’d been watching Mr. Li before it happened.

 

He had a bag, a roll of toilet paper and a big two-liter bottle of iced tea that he wouldn’t let go of, as if these everyday objects were the most precious things to him. There was definitely something wrong with him.

 

At one point he wanted to take a sip of his iced tea, but since he needed two hands to drink from the two-liter bottle, he actually held the roll of toilet paper under his chin. He was rocking back and forth, almost chanting or something, but it wasn’t in English.

 

Then he went into the bag and pulled out the knife. Coming from a small community where hunting and fishing and all that are really big, I didn’t really think of it. On any given day I could walk down the street and see maybe 20 people with knives walking around.

 

At that point he looked at me and then turned and started attacking Tim. I got up and started yelling, “Everybody get off the bus! Stop the bus! Someone’s being stabbed!” I got up to the front, told the bus driver what was going on. He stopped the bus and started getting everyone off.

 

I looked back and saw that my wife was still at the back of the bus. There was a mother and a young boy sitting behind her, and they were passing the young boy over my wife, and she was helping to make sure he got over there to his older cousin who was sitting in front of us.

 

The aisle was all clogged up, so I jumped over several seats to get back to her, and then I put her and the boy’s family in front of me, so that I was between them and Mr. Li.

 

This whole time, he was still attacking Tim.

 

Tim knew he was in serious trouble, and he tried to fight back. He was swinging, trying to throw punches and trying to grab the knife.

 

Before the attack, I’d talked to Tim briefly – just the normal bus conversation: “Hey, where you headed?” All that stuff. He seemed like a really nice guy…the kind of person you could easily be friends with. He was sleeping right up until the point he got stabbed, listening to music, resting his head on the window.

 

By the time I’d gotten back to help my wife, Tim was already dead, because Mr. Li was repeatedly stabbing him.

 

I looked back about three times; the first time, when I went to get my wife, the second time when I got between her and Mr. Li, and the third time, when I got off the bus. All three times, he was still stabbing Tim.

 

I kept telling people, “Keep moving, don’t stop, don’t stop, don’t look back, keep going,” and after everyone got off the bus, that was when a truck driver came.

 

He stopped and helped the bus driver barricade the door closed. The truck driver then tried to go back on to see if he could save Tim, got two steps up, and at that point Mr. Li had already severed Tim’s head and came running at him with the head. The truck driver jumped off the bus and they closed the door.

 

The door seemed to be having problems with its hydraulics or something though, because it wouldn’t quite close, and Mr. Li was waving the knife at them through the door.

 

I did see the head as well, but I turned my wife away, so she didn’t see it.

 

Probably at least a dozen people saw the head. Most people had run behind the bus, where luckily there was an overflow bus that had been driving a few minutes behind us. We all went into the overflow bus and they barricaded the door until the police got there.

 

At that point people were just all in shock, saying, “How could this happen?” and a few people made comments that they hoped Mr. Li would get the death penalty. Some people were crying.

 

When the police came, it was about 9 o’clock. There was a standoff until about 1:30 in the morning, and we left the scene just after 1 a.m. By the time we got to the hotel it was after 3 a.m., and I called my family to let them know what happened. They thought it was a joke.

 

Surviving The Scene

 

Since the attack, I’ve surrounded myself with good friends and family. We did talk to the crisis counsellors provided, but they were only there until Friday, and we were in the hotel until Wednesday.

 

Neither my wife nor I have been sleeping very much. We both think about it all the time, because it’s still very fresh in our memory. We can’t sleep without lights on and the TV on for some noise in the background. I don’t get more than two or three hours sleep at a time.

 

My wife doesn’t like going out in public places any more. She doesn’t even like going to the mall or anything like that, whereas before shopping was almost her career.

 

I was out last night wandering with my brother – we’d gone out to get some snacks – and every time a vehicle drove by, I watched it until it was far, far away, because I was afraid someone would come out and attack us, or something bad would happen. I’m going to try to put this behind me, but I can definitely see it will have some long term effects on both my wife and I.

 

It was so random and could have been anybody killed on that bus. When Mr. Li took out that knife and looked at me, I thought it was my time. It was all in the matter of seconds when he pulled out the knife, looked at me and then stabbed Tim.

 

I don’t think there would have been anything that could have prevented Vince Li from becoming violent. I think it was more than just his mental instability, because he was drinking that bottle of iced tea and sniffing a lot, repeatedly. I personally think Mr. Li was on drugs, though I don’t know if that’s been disproved.

 

I don’t think there was any way to physically overpower him, not with the people that were in the close vicinity of Mr. Li in that short amount of time. I was the only guy within the area that could have done anything. I’m a fairly big guy – I’m almost six feet tall, 180 pounds, fairly well-built – and I don’t even think I could have taken him.

 

My thought was that the first thing was to stop the bus so that everyone could get off. Yes, it is a tragic event, but we’re all lucky the rest of us got off that bus.

 

“Lucky” is really a bad choice of words, but it could have been so much worse.

 

I just acted on my instinct and I didn’t want it to turn into a standoff, so I did what I could. Tim is the hero of all of this. He gave up his life so that all of us could live. That’s what I think of Tim. I’m thanking him every single day that I’m alive.

 

Vince Li looked like he had no regrets while he was doing it. At first I wanted Canada to bring back the death penalty for this, but now I just think, don’t let Vince Li back on the streets. He could easily do it again.

[... 0]

Here's a letter from the ALWAYS CLASSY Calgary Sun:

 

Reading your story about the passenger on the Greyhound bus claiming Tim McLean gave everybody time to get off the bus made me sick. Other than women and children, it was a busload of cowards. This was not Bruce Lee they had to overpower. This was Bruce Lee's dad. The passenger also mentioned sleepless nights. This is the guilt setting in, my snivelling friend.

 

Glenn Paterson

 

Better be careful or the rest of the world is going to start thinking Calgary is full of macho Monday morning quarterback know-it-alls who stick their noses where they don't belong.

 

Oh.

 

 

 

[Red Baron 0]

Isn't that in every Sun paper

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Heh, I was gonna say the same thing. I'll always remember the classy headlines of "BASTARDS" after 9/11 here in Toronto.

[Red Baron 0]

Heh, I was gonna say the same thing. I'll always remember the classy headlines of "BASTARDS" after 9/11 here in Toronto.

 

I remember that too.

 

Is there anything good about the Sun anyways, other than toilet paper?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Yeah, no. I read The Star, Globe and National Post.