Another Israel/Palestine Thread

[Guest Cerebus]

Whenever I see Israel/Palestine threads, they ususally degenerate into "OMGISRAELISTEHSUX!" vs. "OMGPALESTINEISTEHSUX!" hence my deep reluctance to actually post in them.

 

BUT this article, which I got via Winds of Change, is a really good look into Jewish & Arab cultures that the MSM never goes into since they would rather blow a load with every "targeted killing" and suicide bomb.

 

During his doctoral studies at the University of Tel Aviv under Professor Yochanan Peres, Ph.D., Nasser learned that the obstacles encountered by a Jewish-Arab couple are great and the probability that a marriage of this nature will last is unlikely. He said that at the time of his research (1991), more than 70% of mixed marriages in Israel ended in divorce.

 

This is one of the reasons why the two people find it difficult to ever reconcile, there is virtually no inter-mingling between the two, the lines are pretty clearly drawn between "us" and "them" not to mention the fact that spousal abuse in Arab communities, which is not limited to merely Muslim ones, is an all too common occurance. I'm convinced that it was only the liberalism of America that allowed my mother to marry a non-Arab man without fear of reprisal. Had my family still lived in Bethlehem, such a mairrage would NEVER have been accepted.

 

OK, if you're not happy with this Rant I don't know what else to say.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

OMGMIDDLEEASTISTEHSUX...

[jesse_ewiak 0]

Well, not to be flippant, but I'm guessing if Hispanics were suicide bombing "white" areas , I doubt many Hispanic-White marriages would hold up.

[Guest Cerebus]

You completely missed the point. This is about cultural differences not political. Not EVERYTHING about Israel and Palestine has to do with politics and suicide bombers.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Is it your belief that this will never change? It occurs to me to be sort of the same type of cultural difference that exists between blacks and whites (albeit, I concede, religion for this region is an incredible wedge issue), and thus, it could subside with time.

[Guest Cerebus]

Never is a long time. Who knows what can happen 100 years down the road, but I won't bet on any significant change happening, culturally anyway, in our lifetimes.

 

Even if all political problems vanished tommorow (which they won't of course) Israel will always stick out like a sore thumb in the area adn that's a fact.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Yeah... maybe it's wishful thinking. However, a statistic like that feels like a statistic that would be relevant in the 60's in the south. And 40 years later, it's not as much of an issue at all.

 

It's a terrible situation, no doubt. But my silly optimistic side says that this has to change, you know?

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

i'm not too cynical in thinking that the area won't ever really have peace, right?

[Guest Cerebus]

Can you think of a place that DOES have peace?

 

There was a "peace" of sorts between 94 and 2001, but the reality was that it was a fool's peace that ended up being a catlyst for what we have now. People were willing to turn a blind eye to the brutality of the PA, it supression of religous rights, and the continued suffering of Palestinians in other parts of the Arab world (which you won't hear about at Columbia or UC-Berkley of course) all of which boiled over.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

It could subside with time.

Yeah, when all the Jews are dead.

 

I've often wondered what life must be like for an Arab or Jew that's somewhat sympathetic to the "other side" of the Middle East debate...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

I really did kick some ass with my extemp speech about Israel and Palestine about how the Palestinean leadership sucked. Like how they had terrorists who wanted to destroy Hamas, and Arafat was ill and all that

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I think if more Arabs were raised in more western traditions and surroundings they'd be more easily adapt to the other side. I have read, years ago, of one man who was raised in Israel and today supports Jewish causes much more than most others from his birthcountry would.

 

Lifestyle (which is the word I'll use to simply culture + environment) is as important to peace as politics are. While there are some who, like KKK suggested, believe they shouldn't stop until all the Jews are dead, if lifestyle conditions were better (in the case of the Pals, clean water to start, maybe?) more and more people would speak up against violence until their voice is louder than the fanatics.

 

Unfortunately the "kill all jews" minority gets it's strength from people who don't completely agree with that movement, but see it as a way to get something that they feel they have no choice but to fight for.

[Guest Cerebus]

The "Kill All the Jews" isn't aminority anymore. You can thank seven years of banishment, improsenment, torture, kidnapping, and murder of Palestinian moderates by the French hero Arafat.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The "Kill All the Jews" isn't aminority anymore.

Only because more moderate people have resigned to the fact that such a violent philosophy will somehow improve their life.

 

Moderate People: We'd like some clean water.

Fanatics: Kill the Jews!

Moderate People: I don't really care either way about the Jews, my baby is hungry and that's all I'm interested about.

Fanatics: Kill the Jews! Take their food and water!

Moderate People: Well, I guess that's one way to get things...

[Guest Cerebus]

The "Kill All the Jews" isn't aminority anymore.

Only because more moderate people have resigned to the fact that such a violent philosophy will somehow improve their life.

 

Moderate People: We'd like some clean water.

Fanatics: Kill the Jews!

Moderate People: I don't really care either way about the Jews, my baby is hungry and that's all I'm interested about.

Fanatics: Kill the Jews! Take their food and water!

Moderate People: Well, I guess that's one way to get things...

Er no. It's more like the moderates have been frustrated into becoming "fanatics" of sorts. Hell, if Kach was legalized again they probably would get a sizable chunk of the vote.

 

The fact is, I'm getting sick of this Right to Return bullshit. Palestinians will NEVER return to their homes behind the Green Line. Ever. Kick the Jews out of Palestine, kick the Palestinians out of Israel. It's the only way this whole fucking thing will start to go away. The two cultures have developed in such a way in the past fifty years that true reconcilliation is impossible.

[Styles 0]

I'm not sure I understand your argument though, Cerebus. Are you saying Jews should intermarry with Arabs? From my understanding after centuries of being persecuted as a people, resulting in the the diminishing of their numbers do to killing, forced conversion or just abandoment to intermarriage, Jews take their culture very seriously and are reluctant to further dilute it through intermarriage for fear of leading to the extinction of their culture. This would be what the Arabs would want anyway, as if the Jewish majority in Israel is overtaken by Arabs (or half Arabs), then Israel as a representative democracy would cease to be a Jewish state. But possibly I misunderstood you, and may have some of my facts wrong, but this is what I understand to be true from studying the subject.

[Guest Cerebus]

I didn't make an argument, it was more of an observation. These aren't just two people who say "OMGITSOURS~!" "NOITSOURS~!" They are two seperate societies that will always remain mutually exclusive.

 

I bring this up not to argue that inter-mairrage is the solution, but to remind people who mutter "Those idiots. Why don't they get along?" that we're not talking about two people that have a political beef, but two VERY different and conflicting cultures.

 

It is common for Americans to see this as anything more than a monumental stupid barrier to peace and its easy to see why. In the US, your ancestry, for the most part, doesn't mean a damn. Pakistanis sit in the same class with Indians, Turks work with Greeks, Japanese and Koreans go out to bars together etc. In addition, because we're an immigrant country, we must be a country that encourages assimilation. Since immigrants, and especially the children of immgrants, msut think of themselves as "Americans" more than Irish, Indian, Korean, whatever, it makes intermairrage more common which helps further blur the lines of cultural and ethnic differences. If you ask what ethnicity most people are they will often casually mention about a half dozen countries in their background. Hell, look at me. My mother is the daughter of Palestinian immgrants and my dad is the son of Polish immigrants. We live in a society of blurred ethnic and cultural lines and that is one of the reasons it is very hard for us to truly grasp places where those lines are clear as day.

 

THAT'S my point.