Hasbeen2

Was there a moment when Jim Garvin turned heel and started teaming with Michael Hayes (89ish) or did they just come out to the ring for a match. I don't remember Garvin doing anything at all after his feud with Flair over Precious faded away and at around that time Hayes would have been a face in World Class.

Well put Carlos at 14 at Carly at 41. We need a spot somewhere too for Deathrow 3260. Does Prince Iaukea qualify?

Puerto Rican or black? Carlos Colon would be top 15, Carly top 30-40.

Yeah I was just thinking about that when I saw my list again. I tried not to overthink it and just put them down quickly right after I got a big list together. Pacman Jones, Zeus, were my attempts at comedy but Zeus did main event a pay per view.

Deserved or not, he did get the belt.

Ranked by career achievements, longevity, notable feuds, overness and the size of the stage-competing in the WWF or WCW would get more credit in this ranking than on the independent scene. 1-The Rock 2-Junkyard Dog 3-Abdullah the Butcher 4-Bobo Brazil 5-Ernie Ladd 6-Booker T 7-Bearcat Brown 8-Ron Simmons/Farooq 9-Luther Lindsey 10-Tony Atlas 11-Sailor Art Thomas 12-Dory Dixon 13-Hacksaw Butch Reed 14-Bob Sapp 15-Rocky Johnson 16-Bad News Allan 17-Kamala 18-Bobby Lashley 19-D-Von Dudley 20-Iceman Parsons 21-MVP 22-Mark Henry 23-Thunderbolt Patterson 24-New Jack 25-Sweet Daddy Siki 26-Stevie Ray 27-Hank James 28-Ahmed Johnson 29-Koko B Ware 30-Rufus R Jones 31-Godfather/Papa Shango 32-Viscera/Big Daddy V 33-Norvell Austin 34-Leroy Brown/Elijah Akeem 35-Ron Killings 36-Virgil/Vincent 37-D-Lo Brown 38-Ray Candy/Kareem Muhammed 39-Sonny King 40-Pez Whatley 41-Larry Cameron 42-Skip Young 43-Earl Maynard 44-Mr Hughes 45-Kofi Kingston 46-Jay Lethal 47-Sweet Daddy Watts 48-Brickhouse Brown 49-Mustafa Saed 50-George Wells 51-Tom Jones 52-JTG 53-Shad Gaspard 54-Monte Brown 55-Ernest the Cat Miller 56-Jim Mitchell 57-Rodney Mack 58-Norman Smiley 59-Jerry Morrow 60-Elix Skipper 61-Pork Chop Cash 62-Human Tornado 63-Tiger Conway Jr 64-JT Smith 65-The Boogeyman 66-Ice Train 67-Consequences Creed 68-Ezekiel 69-Ranger Ross 70-Arman Hussein/Hussein the Butcher 71-Elijah Burke 72-Tyree Pride 73-Larry Hamilton 74-Johnny Rodz 75-Eddie Kingston 76-Savannah Jack 77-Derrick Dukes 78-Tiger Conway Sr 79-Sergeant Craig Pittman 80-SD Jones 81-Mo 82-Orlando Jordan 83-Prince Nana 84-Eddie Morrow 85-Scoot Andrews 86-Onyx 87-Action Jackson 88-Botswana Beast/Kamala II 89-Ruckus 90-Slick Wagner Brown 91-D-Ray 3000 92-Soulman Alex G 93-The Snowman 94-Bobo Brazil Jr 95-Scorpio Sky 96-Rocky King 97-Hardwork Bobby Walker 98-Caprice Coleman 99-Kenny King 100-Kory Chavis 101-Lawrence Taylor 102-Jerrelle Clark 103-Jay Fury 104-Kingdom James 105-Chilly Willy 106-Babi Slymm 107-Derrick King 108-Gerald Finley 109-Charlie Cook 110-Rasta the Voodoo Man 111-Murder One 112-Big Swoll 113-Hardbody Harrison 114-Tony Suber 115-Desmond Howard 116-Mr T 117-Dennis Rodman 118-Karl Malone 119-Zeus 120-Pacman Jones I left out 2 Cold Scorpio, put him in around 30.

Where's New Jack?

Does it open with "Obsession"?

You don't think HHH gets boos from those who think they're in the know, and Cena gets boos because some fans think it's hip to boo the overexposed face?

Gagne pushed the Road Warriors and Bruiser Brody who were hardly traditional AWA technical wrestlers even though he was evidently stunned the fans would cheer for them instead of the faces. With a superman push Hogan over the next couple of years could have gone over Bockwinkel in rematches, Wahoo McDaniel doing the bitter old man gimmick he used against Magnum TA, Jerry Blackwell (maybe then befriending him against the irate Sheik Adnan, before Blackwell turns again), Stan Hansen, Slaughter, Brody and the Road Warriors in single matches. The money made on those feuds and teamups (Hogan and the Road Warriors in a six-man against Brody and the rest of the Sheik's army) maybe could have convinced him to stay for a while longer. They could have doubled the Comiskey Park and Metrodome gates. He would have probably left eventually but by then maybe the AWA could have been big enough to get Savage, Steamboat, Kerry pre-motorcycle accident, etc, keep the Warriors, etc. That ESPN slot may be the biggest drop of the ball. This was before there were dozens of cable channels to choose from and especially no large sports channel selection.

These 2 things are not connected. Super Clash 1 in Sept 85 was the Super Card not a PPV I'm refering to the 1988 PPV (the first and only timet that the AWA got on PPV), which united the AWA with World Class and the Memphis group. I don't completely understand that these three promotions (they already had timeslot with ESPN), with their backs against the wall (in the face of the WWF and the NWA/WCW, who had Ted Turner backing them) didn't work better as a cohesive unit. But then again, egos and politics will always get in the way of good business sense. The talent roster wasn't there to make a dent. The AWA at that point was all way over the hill guys or no name rookies Memphis had little after Lawler And World Class was dead in the water as the fans had given up on the Von Erichs, and Eric Embry wasn't going to cut it as a national star The booking at this event was awful (Gagne over Garvin for the belt by countout?), the location in Chicago was awful. Put it in Memphis or Dallas and I guarantee you'd had more than 3000 fans attend. The women's battle royal was beyond awful. Instead of wasting Madusa and Richter in a 6-man tag, put them in a match for the belt. Embry didn't get over huge, as a face, until later when he was fighting Tojo and Skandor Akbar's goons. The talent from other areas should have been appearing on ESPN regularly in the weeks before the show, I don't remember many of them at all being even mentioned. Why would fans in Chicago get excited to see Brickhouse Brown, Robert Fuller or the RPMs when they've never seen them on TV and the AWA show doesn't explain who these guys are? I don't remember why Kevin Von Erich wasn't there but he should have been, at the very least seconding Kerry. Way too many familiar names were wasted or misused, Garvin a year after holding the NWA belt, Morton and Gibson, Slaughter who was still over but involved in an awful feud with DeBeers, Michael Hayes as a face. December 13, 1988 - AWA SuperClash III PPV in Chicago, Illinois: The Guerreros (Hector, Chavo & Mando) b Cactus Jack & Tommy Lane & Mike Davis, Eric Embry b Jeff Jarrett, Jimmy Valiant b Wayne Bloom in 24 seconds, Iceman King Parsons b Brickhouse Brown to retain the World Class Texas Heavyweight title, Paul Diamond & Pat Tanaka & Madusa Micelli b Ricky Rice & Derrick Dukes & Wendi Richter, Greg Gagne b Ronnie Garvin by count out to win the AWA Television title, The Syrian Terrorist won a “Lingerie Street Fight Battle Royal” (Also Involved: Bambi, Peggy Lee Leather, Laurie Lynn, Brandi Mae, Malibu, Nina, Pocohantas & Luna Vachon), Sgt Slaughter b Colonal DeBeers in a “Boot Camp” match, The Samoan Swat Team (Samu & Fatu) b Michael Hayes & Steve Cox to retain the World Class Tag Team titles, Wahoo McDaniel b Manny Fernandez in an “Indian strap” match, Jerry Lawler (AWA Champion) b Kerry Von Erich (World Class Champion) to win the WCCW Title when the referee stopped the match due to Von Erich’s excessive bleeding, The RockNRoll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) vs Jimmy Golden & Robert Fuller ended in a double count out.

This one popped into my head first-July 4 1982-Flair vs Backlund, Samoans vs Freebirds, Muroco vs Dusty, Snuka vs Orndorff, Wrestling II vs Masked Superstar, Bad Leroy Brown vs Big John Studd, Sullivan vs Saito, Ole and Hansen vs Putski and Pritchard.

I wonder if the WWF thought he would get too many cheers as a heel against Hogan. If they were including Humperdink they should have kept HD as a heel manager with a stable, with Bigelow as the main heel. I still can't believe World Class had Bigelow and Hellwig and did nothing with them. Crusher Yurkov? What the hell... Just a couple of weeks ago I watched some of his very early stuff, teaming with Lawler against Idol and Rich. Good stuff.

The fans were more into it. Even those who knew the outcome was planned in advance weren't ashamed to scream and yell and boo. Not because a wrestler may have used backstage influence to get a higher spot on the card or because they feel the wrestler is over exposed, but because the wrestler pulled the tights to win a belt, insulted the crowd by calling them a bunch of egg sucking dogs, or tried to pull the mask off of one of their heroes. Those fans could be counted on to keep coming back to the shows and to stay tuned.

Good times.

*Verne Gagne not fully capitalizing on Hulk Hogan's popularity in the AWA. Your winner.

Hogan-Sheik for the belt. I'm surprised this one is still up. These fans wanted Iron Sheik torn apart. I miss that kind of heel heat. These were the good times when fans would throw knives at the heels, try to fight them after the show after the faces were cheated and so on.

Boo!

Mike Jackson was a good talent and was/is a good guy. I never understood why they didn't use the NWA junior heavyweight belt (not that kayfabe Alabama title) to build guys into more credible enhancement (jobbers). Instead we got Laser Tron or whatever that was. Guerrero without the mask would have been much better, I don't remember Laser Tron getting over with anyone including kids. Someone mentioned Flair looking weak with the Dusty finishes against Dusty, I think their logic was getting the fans pissed again and again so they'd keep wanting Dusty to get the belt eventually and keep hating Flair (and keep watching). I don't agree with that too much but I believe that was their goal.

A funny sign I just noticed at the start of WM 18, when RVD was coming to the ring: "65,000 people, only 1 X-Pac fan"

Maybe Hercules had been trademarked as a wrestling name by the WWF. I think he went by Werewolf in Canada later too.

Sounds obvious but the best surprises are the ones nobody could predict. Who could guess a guy Cornette slaps around in developmental would win the Intercontinental title in front of his "home country fans" then turn into one of the most entertaining talents in the organization? Until more main eventers get built up it will continue to be Cena, JBL, Undertaker, HHH, Batista, but as long as they give us decent matches and every now and then put on something unexpected (not illogical like a rookie pinning Cena, just unexpected) I'll watch from time to time.

Rob Van Dam could have won the world title then gave up the secondary title. A tournament could have been held for that and it would have showcased 8 or even 16 wrestlers.

PG13 or trashy, just surprise me every now and then-and in a positive way.

If these pirates get blown to smithereens I hope Johnny Depp makes it out okay.