RedJed

Umm the Duds were only on the TNN show ONCE. While I agree that the ECW show on TNN was at least half crap (I found myself seeing alot of solid matches though that were given time, especially once they started really going) the ECW v. Network angle was not plastered on the shows from start to finish from the beginning of the TNN run to the end.

While I somewhat agree with you, some of the best hollywood TV writers, no matter how great their credits were or are currently - MAY have a hard time going into the world of pro wrestling. Its never a given. It's such a different formula and there are way more variables to consider writing/booking a wrestling show than just a hollywood drama or whatever. People can read and research the past and current stuff all they would want to, but unless you have a storied history of the operations (operations that, to us hardcore fans, may seem common knowledge but to others, are fucking way out there) it's going to be just that much harder to make it work. We're basing juggment on the importance of having good hollywood writers seemingly on the example of Chris Kretski, who I have heard differering opinions if he was a wrestling fan beforehand or not, he may have been a complete diamond in a field of stones. Plus how many hollywood writers HAS WWE gone through? We may all be surprised - I hear stories in the Observer about this person and that person that got canned, released, etc over and over. Some of these writers may have been top notch in other writing avenues and the wrestling thing just did not "click" for them. Someone mentioned a guy like Barry Blaustein. I'd be curious what/if he could do creative-wise, I have to admit.

What does the fact that Triple H will run the company someday have to do with coming up with the best creative team possible? I hate to break it to you, but he will never stop putting himself in the star role as long as he's wrestling. If he had a good wrestling mind, he would know how to keep his own character interesting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The fact that he will one day run the company is EXACTLY the reason why he needs to be on the creative team and learning the creative process. That is the only reason why Stephanie still has her job in creative. And I think it's blatantly obvious right now that Stephanie is not the member of the McMahon family to creatively take over for Vince some day. Shane isn't interested from most reports so this leaves only HHH unless you want to wait 21 years for Shane's son. I've made it fairly clear that I'm including him on creative as the end of his active wrestling career, or at least limited wrestling, although I'm sure he'll have a Mr. McMahon type on camera role. Okay, so he's not part of your best creative team. Well then.... that solves it! He will have absolutely no say in the direction of the creative process, including his character. He won't be sitting in on creative meetings and neither he, Steph, Vince or Linda McMahon will want his character pushed. He won't touch a title or a main event. Just like now, you know, since he's not currently on the creative team!!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Few points here..... 1) Just because he is going to likely be a sigificant part of the operations in the future doesnt by default mean he should be on the creative team. By that same token, all of the McMahon family then should be a part of it also. As the guy before you said, the fact that he holds stroke in the company does not mean he should be on creative. It makes no sense. 2) Do you honestly think that if it was Stephanie out and HHH in a creative team process, the result would be different? They're one of the same. 3) Regardless of his future stature within the company, the fact of the matter is he's always held a bias toward certain guys and how do you think that will change with him just being out of an active spot on the roster? This is similar to Vince having a hard-on for big men - he has his biases, and clearly so does HHH. Neither Vince or HHH being creatively involved is, when it comes down to it, really good for business if they hold those biases above what the general public want, etc. 4) Do you know HHH basically IS in all of the creative meetings anyway and has been for some time now? I wasnt sure if you were being sarcastic with the last comment that he's currently not on the creative team meetings, because rest assured, taking time off or not, your bet your ass he probably is in some way, shape, or form. As long as Stephanie is a part of them, so is he inversily as, natually, he probably knows everything about what is going on THROUGH her.

Yeah but the fact is still that Hogan didnt draw money against him compared to the likes of an Andre, Orndorff, Piper, etc when business was booming and really taking off. That was my point.

Bundy was the only guy out of those three he worked a significant program with and drew money against. Steele never even happened (he was a babyface when Hogan was over in WWE) and Studd was a semi-decent draw and worked occasionally with Hogan but nothing long term to decifer if he drew money against him IIRC. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT. You guys are comparing apples to oranges. Guys like Rock, back when Austin started to feud with him, were virtual upstarts of sorts and werent drawing money. Rock started to draw WHEN Austin started to work a program with him. Foley also wasn't a draw particularly up until he started going against Austin and Taker in 98. Bottom line is Austin and Hogan both have proven they can draw against various workers, be them also draws or not - that much is clear. Make NO MISTAKE about it. Lets not act naive about that fact.

I totally disagree. If Bradshaw would have been brought in and pushed in that manner that Lesnar was, nobody would have bought it and it would have panned out. That NEVER happened with Lesnar. I understand the perception part but the wrestler has to pull their own weight too to make that perception happen. You cant just bring in any old anyone, push them like crazy, and get a guaranteed response you want. Lesnar has/had those intangibles that people just knew right away he was going somewhere. I remember seeing him in a dark match at a Raw taping back in 2001 in Minneapolis in a tag match w/ Benjamin and he just blew me away immediately (didnt hurt he busted out the SSP that night) and made me think he will be a huge star. I dont recall that same feeling when I saw Bradshaw in the GWF on ESPN way back when.

While the moment of Brock's return can be a surprise, that he is returning at all should not be a surprise. It needs to be hyped up like crazy beforehand. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Couldnt you do a surprise run-in at the ppv though, hype that up on Smackdown to get ppv replay buys for it (it would be just a quick run-in F-5ing Batista and maybe even JBL too) and STILL push a return to Smackdown 2-3 weeks after that though, which would draw a decent number hopefully? I just would rather be surprised AND still anticipate the debut of him back on normal WWE TV as thats kind of killing two birds with one stone. The people who get the ppv could be happy as hell that they actually got SURPRISED and the people who can't get the ppvs can still anticipate actually seeing him on the normal show in due time. Also, I wouldnt even have Lesnar wrestle a single match until No Mercy, no how, no way.

I can understand your criticism of Kevin Nash based on his WCW tenure but if you read any Kevin Nash interview, especially the recent Torch Talks, this man has a pretty damn good mind and understanding of the business. He's friend with HHH, HHH would be doing old school style booking and Nash would be injecting a coolness factor with the characters, humor, semi-shoots, etc. I think it would work and it would be a nice rival to a Heyman led team. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First, the HHH crap is purely subjective to him actaully working with an unbiased opinion on workers, the product, etc. And I hate to break it to you, but I dont think that will EVER happen. So why the fuck would you want him in creative? I think only a select few wrestlers could really work in a creative structure, and HHH is most certainly on the bottom of that list. Where has anything shown he actually would know what he's doing?!!!! As far as Nash, I read the Torch Talks and I fail to see where the hell you are decifering this guy has a great mind after reading them. This is the same guy who said Rey Jr should be pushed hard because girls want to fuck him and Benoit should not because of that same reasoning. Did you fail to miss that part? He also felt, if he was booker for this years Mania, he would have done a run-in for HHH saving the title to cause a DQ. Yeah, there's a great booking mind there (note sarcasm). Nash does not, to me, emphasize "coolness" in any way, shape, or form currently. His booking tenure in WCW should speak for itself!!! Unbelievable ANYONE would actually think he would be a smart choice for a creative team, that just boggles my mind. Also, for any of you who think Tommy Dreamer should write - have you read the results and opinions of people when he took over for Cornette temporarily in OVW? He singlehandedly fucked up the creative end of the company in only a month, giving Corny even more headaches when he returned. For what its worth, I agree with alot of people who say Foley could do something strong. Alot of people in the business also seems to agree with that sentiment. I'd have him head one of the brands with Heyman, both as co-headwriters, as I think them bouncing ideas off each other might make for interesting TV and I think generally, they would work well together as there isnt any real heat or animosity. They would handle the main storylines and programs. Lets say they ran Raw - underneath them would be a person who lays out the matches more in detail (Heyman and Foley wouldnt be responsible for this) - a guy like Steamboat, DiBiase or even Laurintatus would work fine in this role. Foley or Heyman would just tell him the feel they want the match in general, as well as who they want to win and what the win is meant to accomplish. From that the road agent could lay out the context of the match as well as the finish. Also, have guys work on particular facets of the brand. If Raw had the womens division still going, keep Finley working with that - he could book it completely since its the undercard and he could also lay out the matches. A guy like Michael Hayes or Arn could man the tag division, booking the storylines and laying out the matches too. I would like the other brand co-headed by Cornette and Bischoff. It may sound crazy but those two might put together something interesting. I think Bischoff, when you take all of the BS of the past out, deep down has visions of things that are unique and different for the future. He was a part of that Matrats league that didnt take off much, but that concept generally sounded so different that it might have worked under the right circumstances. And Cornette can still write just fine - I dont think anyone has disputed that his booking in OVW was crap other than the fact that WWE kept throwing things out there that he had to work around. So this is kind of how I would line things up... RAW: Foley and Heyman co-writers working with most storylines, promos and programs. Match layouts and finishes to most storylines and programs - Steamboat and Ric Flair. Assistant overseeing consistency in storylines, programs, promos and general logic/detail assistance to others - Laurintatus. Women's division booker/match and finish layout - Fit Finley. Tag division consultant/writer/match and finish layout - Michael Hayes. Smackdown: Cornette and Bischoff co-writers working with main storylines and programs. Match layouts and finishes to most storylines and programs - DiBiase and Jake Roberts. Assistant overseeing consistency in storylines, programs, promos and general logic/detail to everyone - Jim Ross. Crusierweight division booker/match and finish layout - Dean Malenko. Tag division consultant/writer/match and finish layout - Arn Anderson.

Yes, he certainly does have charisma, or he would have never gotten over as well as he did in his earlier run. I would have him run-in after the JBL-Batista match at SummerSlam myself. Then build for a return to Smackdown a few weeks after the ppv to explain his intentions with his return - obviously to get the belt back. THen from there you just slow build like crazy. Lesnar has perfectly fine programs they could build from now til Mania in guys like Benoit, Rey perhaps, etc.

You said that Austin ripped off the Sandman, which is somewhat true, but didn't Hogan rip off Superstar Billy Graham? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed but Ausin's persona wasnt JUST drinking beer, which would mean he didnt just copy the Sandman and that was that. He got over predominantly intially because of the DTA gimmick and generally just being a badass rebel, giving everyone the finger and the well known taglines that got him over also. I dont think he even started the beer drinking routine until Austin/McMahon came along, and he was already drawing somewhat before that. Same with Hogan, some elements were derived from Graham, but the persona/gimmick of Hogan back in the day was more than just a blatant ripoff of another wrestler past. I think what got Hogan over more than anything back in the day was his connection to the fans as the "Real American" type of character - once he got in there with the Sheik and then beat him, it lauched him off something huge.

I only read about half of this - when Warrior started his long winded drivel on his opinion of the opinion prior and of what he thinks of the WWE DVD, etc, its just like, my god, how long does this guy take to write this stuff and WHY? All I know is this - IF WWE does what is rumored on this DVD, it sure will be great comedic fodder. Vince and Dunn may be uber pissed at Warrior for starting his same shit again with them, as documented even by Warrior himself in these supposed emails he sent to them, kind of still putting himself over after all these years - to just himself. Its pretty sad.

Hardly. The blame goes to the large guaranteed contracts that were given to everyone, the crappy house shows, and a downturn in wrestling in general. WCW was never a money maker. The major stars would only work PPV's and Nitro. The wrestlers ran the show, and it ran it straight into the ground. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> WCW was a money maker for about a 2-3 year period in the 90s, cmon now. So you are saying Hogan shouldnt share some of the blame but in the same breath you say the wrestlers ran the show (and dont tell me Hogan wasnt one of those) and ran it straight into the ground? Thats a total contradiction of your argument that Hogan isnt partly to blame for WCW's fall. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The checkbook is what ran Nitro into the ground. the show was still doing decent rating numbers and was making a huge amount of money on ad revenue, except with 10-15 guys making 7 figures a year, and another 20-30 making mid to high 6 figures a year, the cost to keep the company running outweighed the money they were making. Lanny Poffo was making 300,000 a year when WCW closed. I want you to stop and think about that one. LANNY fucking POFFO was making 300,000 a year from WCW for sitting on his ass. For all the bad booking, all the bad decisions, if it weren't for money mismanagement, WCW would still be on right now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> While I agree that was a significant part of the downfall of WCW, anyone who says it's one single item of note that drove the company out of business, it's just not that cut and dry.

All I know is that Jillian Hall thing last night on Smackdown was one of the worst ideas for a "gimmick" I've ever seen in WWE in many many years. It wont get over and having her attached to MNM is just going to hurt them overall. I seriously can't believe that was actually greenlit as a gimmick. I can't imagine anyone backstage even finding that humerous and/or interesting. Just a ridiculously bad gimmick they are going with her and the storyline with her and MNM already has become a joke a week in. Can anyone fill in what Jillian Hall was all doing down in OVW?

Hardly. The blame goes to the large guaranteed contracts that were given to everyone, the crappy house shows, and a downturn in wrestling in general. WCW was never a money maker. The major stars would only work PPV's and Nitro. The wrestlers ran the show, and it ran it straight into the ground. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> WCW was a money maker for about a 2-3 year period in the 90s, cmon now. So you are saying Hogan shouldnt share some of the blame but in the same breath you say the wrestlers ran the show (and dont tell me Hogan wasnt one of those) and ran it straight into the ground? Thats a total contradiction of your argument that Hogan isnt partly to blame for WCW's fall.

It really doesnt say shit at all. Austin was the main force that drew the interest in the product going into 2000. If he wouldnt have been a draw in 99 that peak in 2000 wouldnt have been hit. His return at Backlash for HHH v. Rock also generated a large buyrate which could at least partly be attributed to him. And his return later in the year drew respectable numbers.

Are you fucking stupid?? WCW NEVER made money when they were running exept for a short period between 1996 and 1998 where, you guessed it, Hogan was on top with the nWo angle. WCW died because the booking got incredibly stupid between 99 and late 2000 that even when things picked up in early 2001 it was too late to save the company, and Hogan wasnt even around for late 2000 and was only used speradically before then. WCW was on borrowed time before Hogan was brought in because they were NEVER making money and would have gone under anyway if the nWo angle didnt take off like it did. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're acting naive if you think Hogan at least wasnt part of the problem that led to WCW's demise. He, along with others such as Nash, Bischoff, Russo, Brad Siegel, etc - they were all responsible in their own little ways. I dont think anyone needs to give reasons or examples why, it should have been obvious for anyone who followed WCW back in the day and/or read that Death of WCW book.

And Hogan wouldnt have been the draw in those instances if it wasnt for top notch heels such as Orndorff and Andre to draw interest in a big gate match. These werent just any old names that drew the large gates with Hogan - you HAVE to give credit to guys like Piper, Orndorff and Andre in some respect. For just as much as you say Austin wouldnt be anywhere without ROck and Vince, Hogan wouldnt have gotten over as well if it wasnt for Piper and Andre, most notably. You're argument that Hogan could be programmed against anyone and draw big numbers isnt necessaily true - think about it in detail. I can recall a lot of house show tours that Hogan was on that werent draws - opponents like Mr Perfect, Earthquake, come to mind. Another thing to consider here - for example the brand as a whole in the mid to late 80s was so on fire they were getting the same fills for house shows with Savage or Piper on top that Hogan was. Thats how well the business was - they had three seperate house show circuits that all drew tremendously. So the company road the curtains of the success of Hogan on top much like WWE did ride the success of Austin on top in 2000, which IIRC is their most successful year EVER yet Austin wasnt even on most of the time. There is yet another comparison between these two that you can't really say one is above another on. As I've said before, this Hogan/Austin argument is comparing apples to oranges. Both of them were draws on numerous large scale events. However, you can easily and accuratly say Austin and Rock drew a more successful gate and revenue overall for Mania X-7 than Andre and Hogan did for Mania III if we REALLY want to get down to details here.

Exactly. Alot of people here are getting these two things confused and hell, Hogan seems to also. He is telling us that he's been headlining shows for 25 years. That may be true but in no way, shape, or form has he actually been a legitimate DRAW for that amount of time consistently. He seems to think he could DRAW for 4 years like nothing - at this point Hogan saying a thing like that is just plain ignorant. He had some very strong "downtimes" in WCW and WWE where he was not drawing crowds or interest as a whole. But of course so did Austin. Comparing the two IMO is like apples to oranges. They were both very successful to levels unparalled from any others in the business. They both brought WWF/E to record business at their times. They both made incredible money for themselves and the company itself. They also are basically household names to even a typical American in all likelihood. The comparison is so close it's really hard to legitimately judge who is "better" when you put all of the proverbial eggs in the basket.

There are alot of things to consider when comparing Hogan v. Austin in these terms. I feel like alot of you are just scratching the surface on some things but the hell if I'm going to go into it in great detail. All I know is this - either Hogan is way out there more than ever or he's just trying to build heat for a Mania match. To discredit Austin to the level he was mentioning there is ridiculous.

Not to sway too off topic, but has anyone seen the new Crow movie? It just came out on DVD. Needless to say I was VERY dissapointed. Have a feeling the franchise is pretty much fucked after that one.

Wow I'm surprised they actually delivered on their word with Noble with telling him they would re-sign him in due time if he just never went to TNA. With Spanky I'm all kinds of surprised he's returning as didnt he ask for his release in the first place? Even if not, I recall him dogging on the company somewhat after he left them. While I'm glad he MIGHT be returning (I take this report with a grain of salt for now) its just weird they would consider him after all the BS from before. They must be at least going to attempt to reinvigorate the cruiserweight division. We'll see what happens!

How can someone even "half-ass" it in TNA though? They have a total of 3 dates MAX per month (right now TNA just has two workdates per month), which I will assume will continue until at least the end of this year. So that is considered being a full time employee by their standards. Considering he's a pretty well established name, I would bet TNA would sign him to a pretty lucrative contract and when you consider the limited dates, its a win/win situation. As an example, Nash was earning $5,000 per appearance, I could see them easily giving Jericho that much if it came to it as he's a guy they could somewhat build the company around as one of their major stars much like they were aiming to do with Matt Hardy. IF he went to TNA, he'd still have a ton of extra time to do the music thing.

Wow, I just love the insight you put into your posts here. What would make you think he would go back to WWE before TNA if he is going to be working more full time with the band? He WOULDNT be able to do both at the same times with the schedule demands of WWE. Oh and if you are just going to bash on TNA, nevermind I asked.

Promote to whom? TNA isn't really known as being an influential media hype machine. They're not even on television at this very moment. The TNA fans know who Jericho is, know he has a band. There's nothing they could do for him promotion-wise. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They could be a potential one when they arrive on Spike TV in October, as they will have national clearance to get their product and offsets of their product off to the masses. You know, play some songs during parts of the show for vignettes, etc. IF (and its a big if) Fozzy continues to have more dates and possibly build some momentum some cross promotion on the TNA shows for Fozzy would be at least not something that would hurt him, it could only help.

And your point? I dont care if they are the drizzling shits - the fact of the matter is they are getting more dates and are appearing to be at least somewhat popular or getting there.