Lil' Bitch

Part 5 Wade Keller: What are your thoughts on Sid? Scott Hall: I am a huge fan of Sid’s. He’s money. I mean, some guys are better performers and this and that, but they can’t draw a dime. But Sid’s box office, and anybody disagrees and I’d like to talk to ‘em. He’s money. Sid knows how to do his part. He’s a star. Let me put it this way. Sid’s a star. Keller: How about Dean Douglas? Shane Douglas? Hall: No comment… I think he’s a great seasoned professional and he’s paid his dues and he’s earned everything he’s got. How’s that? Keller: Very politically correct. How about Louie Spicolli? Hall: I had a lot of love for Louie. I tried to give him a break. He was one of my young boys. I had him lined up. He was gonna be on a pay-per-view against Zbyszko. Me and Kev did some sweet stuff with Louie. Me and Kev would be walking to the ring for a tag match. Louie wasn’t NWO, but he would wear an Outsiders shirt. It was so hilarious because we’d walk into the ring. Kev would look back. How could you get mad at Louie with those chubby cheeks and stuff? Kev would look back and say, “You’re boy!” But I mean, we lost him too soon. He’s one more guy we lost. But Louie was a wasted career. He don’t want to get negative. I have a lot of love for Louie. I’m glad I was able to help him a little bit. I think he’s great. Keller: Steve Austin was just beginning his WWF run as you gave your notice to jump to WCW. Did you interact with him at all then or previously in WCW, and did you see in him early on that he had the chance to become the star he became? Hall: No. Austin never got his break until the NWO got hot. That’s when Vince turned him anti-establishment, you know? Gee, how original, right? Turn your guys against the company. Keller: I know you had some personal and professional issues with him later on, but did you see something in him worth featuring? Hall: Well, I actually had to call Vince and talk to him because there were some rumors going around that I wasn’t intense enough on my heat on Austin in my last run there. So I called Vince and said, “You know, what? Let Kev (Nash) wrestle him. I’ll stand on the outside. Obviously you’ve seen me work.” Vince has got to understand this. For one thing, I’m way prettier than that mother f—er. I’m in way better shape than him. My sh– looks better than him. I’m a bigger star than him. And he’s flippin’ people off. He’s cussing. And he’s the good guy? I said, “I’m having a real hard time being the heel.” Almost every time we went out, they chanted NWO. When I was f—in’ beatin’ his ass in Toronto, they started a faint Razor chant and Austin panicked so f—n’, I shoulda’ just went ahead and went with the Razor chant. He panicked so f—-in’ bad, I had to go ahead and tell him, “Okay, come back, come back on me.” Ohhh, you mark. They’ll cheer you now. But at the same time, I was going through a real personal hard time, and so was he. I didn’t have my best matches with Steve. And Steve didn’t have his best matches with me. Steve is one of the biggest stars in our business. We just crossed paths at the wrong time. I would really love to wrestle Steve in the future. I don’t mean any disrespect to him. He’s a super-talented guy. I mean, now he’s making movies and all kinds of sh–. When we crossed paths, it was a bad time, that’s all. Keller: When you were in the WWF, did you have a chance to interact much with Shane or Stephanie McMahon? Hall: I met her. I knew Shane when he was a young punk kid. He used to be a mark for Razor. Of course, you meet the family. What are you gong to do? If your boss owned a construction company, you’d say hi to his wife, hi to his kid. So of course I met them. I didn’t really know ‘em. They didn’t have any stroke back then. Keller: Was there an attitude that those two probably would have stroke some day and they were almost royalty in terms of having to watch yourself around them? Hall: No. You know what? Vince broke them in kinda pretty much similar to how his father broke him in. They had to break in kinda old school. Shane used to set up rings, just like Vince set up rings. Which is probably good for you, right? I remember one time I was talking to Shane. Shane’s a pretty damn good athlete. One time he jumped off the thing on the table and all that. I said, “Shane, don’t you miss the rush of the crowd?” He said, “Raze, I get the same rush working in the office.” That’s pretty cool, right. You gotta remember, both of them kids been to college. Keller: It was 11 years ago yesterday that the first Monday Nitro aired. Hall: Let me ask you this. Do you remember the openings of the first Monday night shows. I was all over that son of a *****, wasn’t I? Curt Hennig worked in the office then. They’d show WWE going against my body, then WWF going across my body. Curt Hennig, who worked in the studio, told me, “That’s not by accident.” Because I wasn’t Vince’s main guy, but I was his main guy, you know what I mean? I wasn’t the highest paid guy. I could never figure that out about Vince. I always felt that when I gave my notice to Vince, we broke up at the prom. I never failed his drug tests the whole time I worked there. Then I gave my six weeks notice. Guess what? The next day I was dirty for marijuana. The test was six weeks old. Normally you get the results in two or three weeks. Then, what was even worse, I’m at the arena. Shawn (Michaels) and Kev, their flights are delayed, they’re in Europe. So they’re moving Razor up on the card at some spot show. So Tony Garea comes to me and he says, “Hey, you gotta call the doctor.” I laughed and said, “Oh boy! I guess they got my letter.” So I called the doctor, Dr. DiPasquali, and his wife answers and said he wasn’t there, but he’d be back later. So I’m sitting down, lacing my boots up, sitting next to Taker. Tony Garea comes up and says, “What are you doin’?” I said, “I’m getting dressed, man.” He goes, “Did you call the doctor?” I said, “He’s not home.” He goes, “They want you to leave the building.” We had this whole chain of command, so I asked him, “You’re telling me I’ve come up dirty on a test without talking to the doctor? How do I know he ain’t gonna tell me I have f—in’ high blood pressure, kidney disease, some kind of sh– like that? You’re telling me I failed the test?” I remember Taker went (to Garea): “Why don’t you just push him out the door.” So I walked out through the crowd where they could see me and Tony was out there. I pointed at Tony and said, “I would love to wrestle for you people, but this guy right here won’t let me wrestle.” Then I f—in’ just left. Then Vince called me and wanted me to work for free - well, for two-hundred a night - for six weeks. Keller: That was a neat policy for him. His rationale was, well, we don’t want to punish the fans for the mistakes of the wrestlers. Hall: It used to be a thousand dollar fine. All of a sudden he was giving me six weeks off. Keller: The timing of it made a total mockery of the drug tests, which he tried to proclaim was straight on the up and up. Hall: It was like I stood him up at the prom. Like I’ve always said, I’ve never had that good of a relationship with Vince. Vince knew that I knew, and I actually feel like I threaten Vince a little bit because I’m pretty f—in’ smart. Keller: When word came out that Monday Nitro would be starting, did you look at it as something that would be interesting, a start of a Monday Night War? Or did you guys in the WWF not take it seriously because even though they had Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage, WCW couldn’t possibly compete with the WWF head-to-head? What was your reaction as a wrestler when you heard the news? Hall: Well, as a wrestler, of course you think, “Wow, this is great because it’s more wrestling.” You always have to consider that. Like I said before, I like to give the audience a chance to decide. I always said change the channel if you don’t like what we got. Vince had us so busy, we didn’t watch their show. You’re so busy working and then driving to the next town, you can’t watch Nitro. Keller: Had you watched WCW at all to see what Hogan was up to? Hall: I barely watched our show and I didn’t watch any of WCW. Keller: When Nitro came on, was there any kind of a buzz about how Vince started getting concerned about the fact that he had competition that was actually drawing ratings that were either the same or better than Raw a lot of weeks. Hall: I never knew anything about the ratings, and Vince never sold it. All we did was start putting more main events on free TV. Instead of putting hype on, we started stepping up our free programming. Keller: Vince argued at the time that that was really going to hurt the PPV business by putting main events on TV. Hall: He was right. Keller: Yet even with so much being given away on free TV during the Monday Night Wars, that led to a huge wrestling boom that a lot of people profited from and a lot more fans started watching as a result. How do you reconcile the idea that giving away pay-per-view main events hurt when buyrates went up. Hall: I don’t know. Sounds like somebody owes me money. I think it was a great thing. I am very, very satisfied to have been a part of it. I don’t know that it’s ever going to happen again because there’s no challenger. Right now, TNA is not a challenger to the throne. With some help they could be, but I don’t know. I’d like to go over the books during that time. There was merchandise and pay-per-view buys, business was red-hot. Keller: Did you care at all when Lex Luger jumped without giving notice? Was that frowned upon by you guys? Hall: I don’t know about that, but remember the big Lex Express? The bus tour? Well, what I think happened is they turned Lex babyface and they turned Razor babyface at the same time, but you know what was so funny, and what I’ve always said, like I told you before, let the people decide. That’s why I like live audiences. They tell you right away instant feedback. The Lex Express was a manufactured thing. Then they had Razor out there. The fans could start to tell that Luger was the company man and Razor wasn’t. So I almost got that underdog sympathy. Keller: During that time, Vince started making fun of Ted Turner and he was claiming that Turner was using predatory practices against him. Did you have sympathy for Vince given his background when he crushed Starrcade with the Survivor Series in 1987? Hall: I actually thought it was kind of tacky. The whole thing. Why bring it up? I think you should spend your assets promoting your company. Keller: What initiated your contact with Eric Bischoff and WCW? Was it your agent Barry Bloom? Was it a fellow wrestler? Hall: It was Kid (Sean Waltman). Kid was out in Cali and he was the one getting ready to make a move. He introduced me to Barry Bloom and it just went from there. I remember asking Kid, “How interested are they in you? Well, f—, how interested are they in me?” I said, “Let me get this right? You get days off, too?” Vince was working us 250 dates a year. Keller: Did Barry negotiate for you or did you talk to Bischoff? Hall: Barry did the whole thing. Keller: When did you first start talking to Eric about how you’d be introduced? Hall: Not until I was signed, sealed, and delivered. Eric picked me up at the airport in Atlanta in his Jaguar, drove me to Macon, and I did my first appearance the day after my contract expired for Vince. Then I did my first Nitro. Keller: Did you have any input into how the Outsiders would be introduced? Hall: Well, the one thing, Kev always laughs when I say this because I always qualified every statement with this: There’d be a room of us sitting around. Hulk had creative control, you see. He didn’t have to do nothin’ he didn’t want to; it was in his contract. So we’d be sitting around and I’d go, “Look, I’ll do whatever you want because you’re my boss and I need this big, high-paying contract. But if it was up to me, and it’s not, I think we should do this.” I would lay sh– out. The one thing is, when you get in the meeting room with four or five top guys and they’re talking over an angle, it only takes two or three guys to turn the tide. If one guy goes, “I think we should do this.” If I got Kev saying ,”That sounds good to me,” then Hulk is not going to want to get heat with me and Kev - or he might if he disagrees. But we always protected Hulk. We said, “Nobody gets to Hulk. Me and Kev will bump. Nobody gets to Hulk.” What we did was what Curt Hennig taught me, what Kevin Sullivan taught me, what Dusty Rhodes taught me, what Barry Windham taught me. We did business. We tried to sell f—in’ tickets. We tried to make the people scream so they would tune in next week. That was always my sole purpose. I never was in it for the whole ego thing. Don’t get me wrong, bro. I loved being on TV. It don’t hurt to have people scream your name. Don’t get me wrong. I dig it. But I always felt I was one of the most unselfish people in the business. I did jobs for people and got in trouble for doing it. I don’t know, did that answer your question? Keller: How involved were you even before Hogan was part of the picture with the Outsiders in formulating what you did on TV during those first appearances where you planted the seed in fans’ minds that you may or may not still be with the WWF? Hall: The New World Order was Eric Bischoff’s idea. If you watch the Bash at the Beach, by the time Hogan’s done doing his interview, he calling it “New World Organization, brother.” He already forgot the f—in’ slogan. It was Eric’s idea. You gotta give him all the props. He thought of somethin’ different. T-shirts sold like crazy. Because they were cool. You could wear that, like, in a bar. Instead of wearing a t-shirt around with Austin’s face on it, you could wear NWO. Keller: That original first appearance on Nitro, you’re saying you didn’t know what you’d be doing until that day or the day before? Hall: I didn’t know til I got there. Keller: What was your first reaction to how you’d be debuting? Hall: It was Larry Zbyszko’s idea for me to come through the audience because Larry Zbyszko said, “You know what? Nobody has ever walked through the audience in the middle of the match. The other boys are going to stop wrestling when they see you. They’re going to wonder what the f— you’re doing there.” That was Zbyszko’s idea. I thought it was great. Because otherwise, what do you do? Walk down the aisle? Why wouldn’t the other guys beat you up. Zbyszko said, “Come through the crowd. Everybody’s gonna know who you are. They’re going to wonder what the f— are you doing here?” That’s why I looked at them (Bischoff and Zbyszko) and said, “You guys got the night off. Take off.” I said what was scripted for me to say. That was it. Keller: At any point, did you have any regrets over how you were portrayed, or did it take off so well, that this was a dream opportunity for you. You got to be yourself. Hall: The only thing I regretted was Eric often insisted that that night in Macon he wanted me to precondition the crowd and go out and do a heel interview telling the fans they suck, blah blah blah, then walk through the crowd. If I could go back in time, I would have just came through the crowd. Because it doesn’t matter. Let ‘em cheer. I was coming off Vince’s TV as a babyface. It doesn’t matter. Let them cheer. Because then they’re calling their friends saying, “Are you watching this?!” If I could go back in time, I would have done it that way, but whatever.

Part 4 Wade Keller: Regarding pushing smaller wrestlers, just as UFC pushes middleweights and light-heavyweights as their draws, it seems there’s a missed opportunity at a time when there’s not a lot of talent out there that’s polished. It seems Vince is writing off half of the guys and never gives them a chance to draw. I mean, look at Rey Mysterio. Look at what was done with him. Scott Hall: Yeah, but you’re talking about a guy who’s like one in ten million, there, bro. He’s one in ten million. There is only one Rey Mysterio. I have worked with him. I know him. He’s magic. Keller: Do you think smaller guys could draw, or do you kind of believe in Vince’s formula that you’ve got to turn heads in airports? Hall: Well, that’s what I always loved about live entertainment. Let the people decide, bro. Put the guy out there. Can he get over, can he not? You know? Put the f—in’ Great Khali out there and put f—in’ Rey Rey out there and let’s see who pops the people. You know what I’m saying? Let the people decide. A bunch of f—in’ nerds who have never had a match sitting around in a board room can’t decide. Keller: Did you get a chance to follow Kevin Nash’s storyline in TNA with the X Division? Hall: No, I actually just got a new cable carrier and I didn’t get that channel before. Now I get Spike, so I haven’t been able to see it all. Keller: Before you met Vince for the first time, what was your preconception of him and did it change at all after you had a chance to meet him face to face? Hall: I think I blew the interview. I was so nervous, I was so green. Plus, I was a little bit trying to be like I had something to offer. I felt like I did, you know. I’ll never forget the last thing I said to Vince. Blah blah blah, we talked. I said, “Well, hopefully we can make money together.” I shook his hand and I got back in the car. I guess he expected me to be humble-bumble, but I thought, no man, f— him. I didn’t say, “F— you, Vince.” Don’t get me wrong. But I was thinking, bro, you don’t know me. I’m from the street. I’ll go back to tit bars and sell suntan lotion on weekends. If this works out, great. If it don’t, whatever. But I said that to him and I don’t know, he never called me back until I changed my look. Then they called and called and called. Keller: What advice would you give to a wrestler who is similar to your position before your first meeting with Vince? How should they approach that interview? Hall: First of all, times have changed. You ain’t gonna meet Vince. You’re gonna talk to a bunch of jobronis and you’ll probably meet Jim Ross. You probably won’t get to talk to Vince right away unless you’re somebody. Some new guy walking in, you don’t have to worry about meeting Vince. You’re gonna meet Coachman and a bunch of jabronis. You’re going to meet Jim Ross. Keller: Or probably John Laurenaitis now. Hall: Oh my god (laughs). Keller: What’s your opinion on him? Hall: I think he’s got the whitest teeth I’ve ever come across. Nah, he’s a great guy. He had a great career in Japan. He was sure lucky to have one. Keller: Were you around him WCW? Hall: He was the Dynamic Dude. I crossed paths with him in WWE, I think. Keller: He found his way to power in this country. Hall: Oh, good for him. Keller: You worked with Goldust pretty early as Razor Ramon. What was your opinion of being matched up with him at that point? Hall: Actually, when Vince pitched the Goldust angle to me, he was real conservative back then. They had a violence code. No chairs on TV. You couldn’t say ass. You couldn’t flip a guy off. You couldn’t do any of that sh–. Then all of a sudden he calls me into a meeting and he wants to do this homosexual angle. You gotta remember, this is a long time ago. The way the business goes now, I probably should have just gone ahead and did it, right? Plus, see, I had been around three or four years now. I had a little bit of stroke. I remember looking at Vince going, “Vince, let me get this right. We’re doing a gay angle?” I said, “I don’t get it.” Plus, the heat was on (1-2-3) Kid. Kid and Sid had just f—ed me out of the belt, and they wanted me to work with Goldust. I said, “I’ll tell ya’ what, Vince. I ain’t comfortable with this gay angle. You want me to drop the belt to Goldust, no problem. I’ll drop it to him, but I ain’t working with him.” That was my downfall with Vince. It was the first time I ever disagreed with Vince. You know, I guess I was immature looking back at it now because as racy as the business is now - what’s the broad, Melina, showing her sn—. I mean, when you watch TV, them *****es, they’re shooting up their dresses. You know what I mean? But back then, it wasn’t that way. Vince prided himself on family programming. He had this dude in love with Razor. I remember going, “Vince, let me get this right. I’m going to tell my five year old son some other man’s in love with me?” I guess I was being a mark. I should have just took it as business, but I was very, very uncomfortable with it. Keller: Was it ever personal? Hall: No, no. Nothing against Dustin. I think Dustin is great. He’s a great professional. He did the gimmick great. After me, he took off with that gimmick. He made that sh– red hot. Keller: Once you saw it get red hot, did you look and go, “Maybe that would have worked.” Hall: Too late by then. Keller: How about Jeff Jarrett? You worked with him in the first years there too. Did you learn from working with somebody like him? Hall: Sh–, I taught Jeff how to work. Ask Jeff. Ask Jeff. I worked with Jeff his first match in Madison Square Garden. Razor had been in the Garden a few times. I had a ladder match there. I had had some good matches in that town. I’m sure you’re aware of it, but the Garden’s a tough market. It’s a very tough, sophisticated, hip wrestling crowd. I worked with Jeff there and at that time, with Vince preparing for the steroid trial, he brought Jerry Jarrrett - Jeff’s father - in to supervise operations. So I sat down with Jeff and said, “Look, man, you’ve never been here. I’ve been here. They know me. They love me.” I said, “Just beat me up the whole time. Shoot me in, bend over for a backdrop, and I’ll pick you up and hit you with my finish, 1, 2, 3.” I did it. People popped. Blah blah blah. When I came back to the locker room, his dad pulled me aside. He was spitting dip, chewing tobacco into a coffee cup. He goes, “Hey, Razor, can I talk to you?” I said, “Sure, what’s up?” He goes, “You gave him too much.” This is his own flesh and blood. He said, “The people want to see you make a comeback, then beat him. I’ll never forget looking at Jerry Jarrett and going, “Wow, this guy’s smart. Because he cares more about (the business). That’s his son. I know how much I love my son. But he wanted to do business right. It wouldn’t hurt his son for me to do business right, either, at the same time. But I never forgot that. Me and Jerry Jarrett are pretty good buddies. I like him. He’s smart, man. Real estate. Construction. Wrestling. I mean, he’s made a lot of money in a lot of businesses. Keller: He’s been around a lot of big stories over the years and a lot of turning points in the business. When Vince was on trial, Jerry Jarrett was there, helping to hold the fort while Vince was occupied. Hall: He brought Bill Watts in and Watts didn’t want Vince to control him and told him f— you. So he got rid of Watts. Watts liked me, too. I remember Watts telling me one time, “You’re over like f—. I can’t figure out why they ain’t doin’ nothing with ya’.” Keller: Do you think Watts could have worked out in the WWF at that point, or was he too old school to work in the corporate environment? Hall: Not with Vince. If Vince sold the company to Watts, maybe, but not with Vince. Watts is a little bit too country and Vince is a little bit too city, in my humble opinion, and I don’t know either one of them that well. I know Vince. I don’t Watts that well. I heard Watts knows how to do business. I also heard he’s a tough son of a ***** to work for. Keller: He made quite the Torch Talk. He was very outspoken about a lot of things. He said some racial things that probably shouldn’t have been said, at least not the way he said them. Let’s shift to Shawn Michaels. You had a ladder match that is still talked about today as one of the great matches of the ’90s. How did the concept of doing a ladder match come about? Had you seen it done before? Hall: Actually, one time me and Shawn, we were wrestling each other for like two-and-a-half years. One night we show up somewhere out West because they were doing this deal - back when they were drug testing us, all of a sudden Shawn turned up dirty for some bullsh–. All of sudden Shawn has steroids in him. He’s been clean for three years, and all of a sudden he’s got a pill in him. So they suspend him. They have a battle royal. It comes down to me and Rick Martel. I beat Martel. Now I got the strap. Of course, I’ve never beat Shawn, who I’ve been wrestling for years. So Shawn wears his strap to the ring, I wear mine. It was the only ladder match that ever made sense. So all of a sudden we go out West and I said what the f— is a ladder match? So we start having one or two and start figuring out highspots and stuff like that. I was just supposed to wrestle Shawn at WrestleMania 10 in just a regular match. But Jack Lanza told Vince that these guys are rocking this ladder match, so we had a ladder match and things went well. Keller: Did you know when that match was over that you had just had what would be looked back on as one of the great matches of that era? Hall: I felt good about it. Actually, I think one time in Fresno we actually had a better one, it just wasn’t on TV. It was sweet. The thing I remember is coming back to the locker room, and Randy Savage going, “First of all, I wanna say, great match. Second of all, I want to say you were selfish motherf—ers.” Keller: Why is that? Hall: Because, you know our PPV, you only buy so much satellite time. See, the way the ladder match went, once you kind of set in motion, you gotta cross. You can’t edit the time. Once you start to go home, you gotta go home. So what happened was, we cut into his and Crush’s time. What they should have done is just edit that match, but anyway. Keller: Did we really need a longer match with Crush? Hall: Yeah, he’s money. So anyway, Mach and Crush went, like, six minutes. They were pissed off. But whatever. What do you do? Keller: Have you seen many of the ladder matches that have followed over all of these years? Hall: I had a rematch with Shawn at Summerslam, but that was back when Vince had a violence code. There was a violence code on TV, and I was not allowed to use the ladder as a weapon. Then I worked for Atlanta and I had a ladder match with Goldberg. But Goldberg’s such a *****, like you can’t hit him with a ladder. He’s such a c–t. He’s all jacked up on f—in’ supplements. He’s a puss. As much as I helped him. His first road trip, he rode with me. Free room, free car, all that sh–. I introduced him to our agent. Same agent as me, Kev (Nash), a lot of people have. Made him wealthy. And now he just acts like a cock. So, f— you Goldberg. Keller: Have you seen any ladder matches that you haven’t been involved in? Hall: To be honest with you, bro, I don’t watch a lot of wrestling. Just lately I’ve been watching a lot because Kid called, Kev called. They keep going, “Come on, motherf—er, come on. Let’s do it one more time!” I really think the only way DX is going to make any money is if they have opponents. Keller: They were created to feud with Vince and Shane. I don’t think they created DX as a long-term concept with multiple opponents. It’s a reunion tour, a nostalgia tour. Hall: But what happens if me and Kev show up with black suits on with like NWO logos on them, like the collar. Keller: Well, that extends the DX run instantly. Hall: But I’m saying, now we’re corporate guys. Because Kev’s hair is short. My hair is trimmed. We show up. It’s no secret. Time passes you by. We’re older than we were last year, right? We’re all looking a little bit older. Shawn certainly looks older. We show up because Vince can’t beat them. So who does he bring in? The best tag team in the world, the Outsiders. Keller: Let’s talk about the Clique a little bit, because you guys ended up forming a powerbase that in some ways was unprecedented. A lot of guys didn’t like you. Bam Bam Bigelow, Jean Pierre Lafitte, Bob Holly, Adam Bomb, Ted DiBiase. They were all outspoken about you behind the scenes. Talk about that. Hall: It’s kind of hard to talk about without sounding like an egomaniac, but did Adam Bomb ever draw a dime? A Canadian one, I think. Bam Bam, yeah. We had some heat with Bam Bam. Bam Bam was very talented. We had some heat with people, but nobody who mattered. The business was down and we brought it up. We were trying to bring it up. You know how any business runs, bro. You gotta get in your bosses ear and you gotta pitch your ideas. I don’t care if you’re a car salesman or selling fruit on a fruit stand. You gotta get in your boss’s head with your ideas if you want to advance. So we were saying, “How about this? How about that? How about this?” We were the ones pitching the ideas. See, I’m the kind of guy who thrives on a real competitive environment. If you’re better than me, then bring it, bro. If you’re better than me, then step up and talk to Vince. Because, guess what, that’ll make me think harder. A lot of people could have criticized the Clique, but the Clique rules wrestling. I mean, if you look at it back in the day, me, Kev, and Kid were running the NWO and Hunter and Shawn were running DX in WWE. The Clique was running f—in’ wrestling. Keller: Did you guys ever abuse the power that you had? I’ve asked Sean Waltman and Kevin Nash this same question. You guys had influence with Vince. You had more face time with him and considerable influence because you guys were top acts, too. Did you guys ever abuse that power to settle any scores? Hall: I hope so. I don’t remember, but I hope we did. Keller: The Clique was based on friendship and a common bond because you guys cares passionately about the industry. You guys were students of the game and went on long road trips and talked about it. Hall: We were just a bunch of guys who wanted to get over. We all had the same idea in mind. The best way to get over - I learned this from Arn Anderson. One time, a long time ago, Arn Anderson told me - Kid, you wanna get rich in this business - because I used to stand in the curtain and watch the matches - he went, “Kid, come here. You know what the promoter does?” That was like Jim Crockett at the time. He said, “He stands back here and he listens.” It’s all about who makes me yell the loudest and the longest. You know what I mean? It don’t matter armdrag, backflip, moonsault, all that silly sh—. Who’s making ‘em yell? I could hit you with a toothpick in the face and people are going to yell. I wrestled so many marks. They’d go, “Man, I don’t want the toothpick in the face.” I said, “Fine, I’ll just punch you then.” You know, would you rather take the toothpick, because people are going to go “Waaaaa!” Or would you rather me pick you up and suplex you? Keller: Talk about the different roles each of you had in that group. Was one of you more the leader? Hall: Kev will disagree with this. Kid’s real, real smart. And I like to lay everything out. You see, Kev’s a big grouch. Unless it was Kid, every match that I’ve ever been in, you can research it. If it was me and Kev, I always started. Unless it was the three of us, then Kid started. The way we looked at it, Kid can go. Kid’s gonna wrestle ya’. So you get by Kid, and then welcome to me. I can wrestle a little bit, but I’m a brawler. Then if you get by me, f—in’ sh–’s on. Here comes the big seven foot grouchy mother f—-er and he’s gonna beat your ass. We did it that way, but we never had any kind of ego f—-in’ bullsh– problems. It wasn’t about that. We always helped each other, we always loved each other. I think the love overcomes all that. You know, we never cared. All we wanted to hear was, like Arn said, I always wanted to leave there feeling like I had the best match. I always wanted to leave the arena feeling like I had a great match. I wanted the people screamin’. I always felt, as having been a fan, to give the people their money’s worth. I wanted them going, “Holy cow, did you see that?” You know what I mean? That’s always been my commitment. Keller: At what point did Hunter enter the equation? His lifestyle was very different. Hall: Well, he came in right before we were leaving. Cause I asked Vince, cause I wanted to work with him. Razor, being this guy from the streets, and Hunter came in with the rich boy gimmick. I said, “Boy, give me him.” He came in right at the end. My last night in the Garden was against him. I was supposed to work with Goldust, but he blew his knee out working with me in Europe, so the main event in the Garden, the largest gate they ever had non-pay-per-view, May 26 was Kev versus Shawn in a cage, then me and Hunter underneath, semi-main. We had two matches before that. Philly, Hershey double-shot. Vince and Pat came to both shows and watched. I’ll never forget, Vince called me in before my match into his office in the Garden. He goes, “Dammit, you still work for me. Them sons of *****es. What can I do?” I said, “Vince, I don’t know if I can talk to you about this, man. I’ve already told Eric Bischoff I’m coming. In good faith, I can’t talk to ya’. I told him I’m coming.” He said, “How much those sons of *****es offering you?” I told him. He went, “Damn! That’s pretty good money.” I said, “Look, Vince, I ain’t asking you to match it. You asked me, I told you.” So, me and Hunter went out there. Then Pat called me aside. Me and Hunter just had been having this regular wrestling match. He ends up beatin’ me. Pat called me up and said, “Look, this is what we’re going to do.” I want you to get in the ring, do your cha-cha, take your jewelry off. Hunter will already be out there. He’ll attack you from behind, knock you to the floor, choke you with the cord, then leave you laying in the aisleway.” All the fans in Madison Square Garden, it’s the same people over and over and over again. They’ve been going there for years. Those are previous seats. I remember people speaking to me in Spanish. “Look how they treat you, Razor. F— them. Go to Atlanta, man. We love you Razor.” Most of the marks thought Razor will not do a job in the Garden. I mean, who would, right? So I’m laying there. So he gets on the mic. He’s real green. He goes, “Ramon, why don’t you go off to wherever it is you’re off to go.” And the people start going, “Razor! Razor!” I just peeled my sh– off, slide into the ring, and he feeds me like he’s a f—in’ job guy. I mean, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Up and down. I give him the career-ender, the suplex off the top, snatch him up for my finish. Baby Earl, this is how sweet it was, he swung around and as I was flipping him over, Hunter’s feet hit Earl in the head. So Earl went down. Vince had the big ring. So I dropped him in the other corner. So everybody in the building knows. Hunter knows. Earl knows. All the fans know. But I don’t know that the referee is knocked out. So I cover him. The people are counting, “One, two, three, four.” So I go, what the f—, I go grab Earl. I kick him in the ass. What’s your f—n’ problem. Get up, get up. I turned around. Bang, Pedigree. One, two, three. I laid there until his music played. He left. The f—in’ sweetest part was, before I went out, the people were chanting, “Please don’t go! Please don’t go! Please don’t go!” So when the match was over, I got the mic. The people are going, “You sold out! You sold out! You sold out!” I pointed at Vince. He used to stand outside the Garden. I just pantomimed. I said, “Tell him, give me the money and I’ll stay right here.” So this is one of the biggest moments of my career. I used to always say, “Say hello to the Bad Guy.” I picked up the mic and I went, “Say…” and everybody in that arena went, “Good bye to the Bad Guy!” It was one of those moments. It’s all we got is moments in our life, you know what I mean? Keller: That had to be somewhat emotional. I don’t know if you felt you owed anything to Vince, but you both made money for each other. Hall: The thing is, too, bro, I could look Vince in the eye and said, “You know man, I worked my ass off for you. Yeah, yeah. I remember two years in going, “I know how this works, Vince. You keep pointing these cameras at me, and pretty soon we’re partners.” Because I knew I was getting over. I went to him as a man and asked for more money. He wouldn’t give it to me. I said, “Vince, what am I doing wrong? Do my interview need work? Does my ring work need work? Cause I wanna make big money like my predecessors.” He said, “Oh, no, your work is fine.” Blah blah blah. I was thinking, all right. Keller: You weren’t getting World Title shots or runs with the World Title. Not that you were a mark for the belt, but that symbolically is a reward for what you’ve accomplished when you get that title. Did you get any sense at all that that was in the cards? That’s why Christian left WWE, because Vince outright told him, “I don’t see you as a top guy.” That was the final straw for Christian to jump to TNA. Did you ever get the feeling that Vince saw you as a guy who would be top top? Hall: I like Christian. I think his interviews are very entertaining. The whole World Title thing, it didn’t bother me. I only wanted the money. When you go to the bank, they don’t go, “Did you win or did you lose?” They just want the money. Keller: So there was no consideration given to wanting to headline several PPVs in a row as champion, as happened with Kevin, Bret, and Shawn. It really was just money and an opportunity to do you thing that was most important? Hall: I never really considered myself a mark for the belt, bro. I never really did. I don’t know. To me, it’s always been a business. Keller: What did you think during that stretch of time about the dynamic between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels? Do you think Vince played them off of each other? Do you think they naturally were such different people that that led to a lot of the tension backstage? Hall: I think there was a little bit of a half-shoot going on and Vince capitalized off of it. It got kinda nasty. I don’t care to comment about it. Shawn can be Shawn, and Bret can be Bret. Neither one of them is a day at the beach if you catch them on the wrong day, you know what I mean? Keller: I know you’re real close with Shawn, and Bret wasn’t your best friend like Shawn was, but do you think they were strong guys to be on top during the time that they were on top? Because they kind of broke the size barrier, too. Hall:I don’t think there was anybody else. Vince was out of options. He had to put Bret on top. He didn’t have anybody else. Keller: Shawn really tore the ring up. He had a really nice run as champ in terms of just putting on great matches. That’s when the show-stopper name started. Hall: Well, he stole that from Yoko(zuna). He rocked it, man. Keller: How about Undertaker. During your run when you guys were really powerful and really prominent on WWE TV, how did Undertaker as a locker room leader himself, play off of that dynamic he had? Hall: Taker’s real quiet, man. He don’t say a whole lot. Keller: Did you guys get along with him just fine? Hall: I have a lot of respect for him, but like I say, he minds his own business. He handles his business very professionally. He’s not a gossip. He don’t talk no trash. He’s a straight up dude. Keller: I want to go back to Hunter late in your run there, travelling with you guys on the road. What was it that bonded you guys when Hunter was such a different person than you guys were in terms of how he lived his life on the road? Was it just the love of the business that brought you guys together? Hall: Well, he could work, plus we needed a designated driver. (laughs) Keller: What are your memories of Owen Hart? Hall: Me and Owen were good friends. When I was working for that company in Germany, my trailer was right next to his trailer. We’d hang out, go to the gym together. Back then, our wives would go jogging together. It was a lot of fun. Anybody who’s ever been around Owen knows he’s crazy. You can’t grow up a Hart and not be crazy. But at the same time, Owen was so talented. I was at the Kemper Arena, I guess it’s been about three years ago now. It was hard for me to work because I felt down. Because that’s where Owen lost his life. We still miss him. But I know Owen’s in Heaven now. I just pray for him and I hope he’s doing great.

Easily the worst show of the year although I'm glad the tag titles finally changed hands (Just wish Piper didn't look eight months pregnant) and Booker T made history by becoming the Champion of Champions. This is definitely one of the best years of his career.

Part Three Wade Keller: At the meeting with Vince (McMahon where you proposed the Razor Ramon gimmick), did you sense there was any apprehension about letting you create your own gimmick? Scott Hall: But he owned it. Keller: So it didn’t matter then who came up with it. He was cool with that. Hall: I created it, but he copyrighted it. See, you gotta understand about Vince at that time, had I already licensed Razor Ramon, he wouldn’t have used it. He was pretty brutal. I was one of the first guys to ask Vince for more royalties. He told me no. Before I left Vince to WCW, I said, “Can I work in Japan?” Let me have four weeks a year in Japan. I wanna work for you; let me work in Japan. I said, “Vince, I know there is only so much box office money, only so much pay–per–view money, so let me work in Japan. I still wanna work for you. Let me work there. It’s their money. It’s not yours. You see, back then it was a private company. So if you made more money, Vince made less—and that’s the way he looked at it. It was coming out of his pocket. So then he went, “No.” I said, “Well, sh––, Vince, I ain’t no mathematician, but what about like if you move that point over a little bit on the royalties, the Hall family would really benefit. Would the Vince McMahon even notice the difference?” He went, “Well, no. Maybe in the future, but I’ll give you the same thing I give Taker and Shawn (Michaels) and Diesel” and blah blah blah. I went in with two offers and he turned me down. Keller: Did it ever come up in conversation with other top guys about forming a union or some sort of organized labor, either official or just grouping together and going in as a group saying, “Vince, we want a bigger merchandise cut”? Hall: Well, the closest thing was the Clique. But, you gotta remember, too, with independent contracts, promoters are slick. If I was a promoter, this is what I’d do. I’d go to my top few guys and I’d say, “Look, I’m gonna take care of you and f––– these other guys.” Right? Why would you ever let anybody unionize, right? Keller: That’s the whole key—make sure the guys who make 90 percent of the difference are 100 percent happy. Hall: Yeah, if you take care of the top guys, f––– the other guys. One thing I always remember about Vince, too. I remember my first match in Madison Square Garden; it was with Randy Savage. Half way sold out. My last match there wasn’t a pay–per-view and it was sold out, which makes me proud. The music is playing, Vince is there, and I’m stretching, waiting to go out. And he goes, no wait. Make ‘em wait. So I went out and all that. Blah blah blah. We had our match. It was what it was. I beat Randy. But, the feeling I got was before you go through the curtain, you’re a big star. Then when you come back through the curtain, you’re lucky to have a job because there are twenty guys who would do it for less. So keep that in mind. And you better pack your bags and get to the next town. Which is all fair, you know. I signed on for it, you know? Keller: Do you followed the UFC at all? Hall: I’ve been starting to watch it. Keller: Because, they’re pay structure is the same thing. Chuck Liddell gets $250K plus a massive pay-per–view bonus percentage, and you go two spots down on the card and the top payoffs are between two thousand and ten thousand. Hall: Well, good. F––– them. Whatever. Who’s making all the money? Dana White and his partners. Keller: And they poured a lot of money into it. They lost a lot of money with no guarantee of a return. Hall: Those guys are beating the f––– out of each other and they ain’t making nothin’. Keller: The lower guys don’t make a lot, but Dana White’s attitude is, everyone is happy because they’re making more than they could make anywhere else. I think that was Vince’s attitude. If you’re not happy, go see how if the grass is greener elsewhere. Hall: You have to remember, there is nowhere else to go. There is no place to go, unless you’re bad ass enough to go to Japan. There’s K1 or one of the bad sons of *****es who go over there, because they’re all heavyweights. The UFC guys are all like 205. You go to K1 and they’re big sons of guns. Keller: Pride actually has a heavyweight division and UFC has three guys who are not even at the same level as the top guys in Pride. Hall: Well, the heavyweights are brutal. At 205 is the money weight. I watched Liddell the other night and I thought it sucks. It was so short. Keller: That’s one of the downsides of UFC. You end up with no guarnatee you’re going to see (a good fight). It’s like boxing. You don’t have a guarantee that it’s going to be competitive. At least with wrestling, Vince’s contention is that wrestling will outlast MMA, mixed martial arts, “because we have control over the storylines.” Dana White’s response is, “You can’t create reality better than actual reality.” The problem is, with UFC, you know there’s a chance there’s going to be a letdown. It’s just like the Super Bowl. It might be 35 to 3, or it might be 6 to 3, or it might be a classic. It depends on whether fans are willing to be patient and take the good with the bad. Hall: See, I always enjoyed the drama. See, I never had a problem, like I told you before—I don’t care if it’s real or not real, is it fun or not fun? I don’t care about all them crazy naked rear chokelocks and all them armbars and all that sh––. I mean, is it fun, is it not fun, did you get your forty bucks worth or not? Cause, I’ll tell you what, with that Liddell thing, that sh–– ended, and then they always have some preliminary guys who you don’t even want to watch. Liddell knocked the punk out so early, then they had some other guy and I turned it off. I didn’t even wanna watch these guys. Keller: That’s the tough part with UFC. There’s good and bad with it being real. The good is, you know it’s real, so to a lot of people it makes a difference. Then, to other people, they’re going to stick with pro wrestling because they know the main event is going to come last and they know it’s going to go 15, 20 minutes. At least in wrestling if it’s not a good show, you actually have someone to blame. In UFC, if it’s not a good show, sometimes it’s just the way the cards fell that day. Hall: Ask (Ken) Shamrock what he likes better. Keller: I’d think he likes MMA better. Hall: Because he’s trying to get his rep back. Keller: That’s where his natural passion lies. That’s where he’s a hero in wrestling. He was kind of just another guy who wasn’t pushed quite right (in the WWF) and he didn’t quite know how to… Ken’s one of those guys, when you were talking about promos earlier, Ken’s one of those guys who did a great promo in the mixed martial arts world when he was being himself. Not to compare him to Jake Roberts, but in that same sense, he would just talk calm, with confidence, authoritatively, and he didn’t yell. Then he got to WWF and they had him do these yelling and screaming promos. Hall: Yeah, the angry guy interviews. I just hate angry guy interviews. Keller: You had mentioned size, and 205 is where it’s at in UFC. I wanted to talk for one second as a sidebar about light-heavyweight wrestlers. When 1-2–3 Kid came along, that was a huge break from WWF tradition that he got a push. So, talk a little bit about the dynamic you had with him, which I’d say broke a size barrier in wrestling. And then talk in general about whether you think smaller guys have a chance to draw money, but just aren’t given the chance. Hall: I’ll tell you one thing that led to that, when I first started working with Shawn Michaels, he had come out of that tag team situation. I came in and was working with Shawn, but he’d still have to do spots where one dropkick, double dropkick to get guys down. Because I was considered a pretty big guy. But when I worked with Sean, I said f––– that, man. I used to go down off a punch. To me, if you can’t get in trouble, then you’re not worth any money. You’re limited the number of opponents you can work with. See, you’ve never been in the ring with Kid, obviously, because Kid will knock your teeth out. Kid is a crowbar. So, I’d rather work with Kev (Nash) than Kid. But I learned to sell. Plus, I learned from Ricky Steamboat that when you’re selling, guess what? The camera’s on you, bro. You want the camera on you. So, let the guy whip my ass. Put his sh–– over, because I’ll tell you one thing, it’s a relationship. The better you sell for the guy, of course, the better he’s gonna give you a comeback, you know. Then you do whatever the boss tells you to do for the finish. Keller: What made the dynamic with you and 1–2–3 Kid work so well on camera, because historically, I don’t think it gets enough credit for what it changed. Small guys had worked with big guys before, but that was just one of the more successful angles and it broke from what had been the tradition in the WWF. A skinny guy like Sean would not have gotten a push at any other time. What was it about him that made Vince give him the opportunity to get a push? Hall: Six months before we did the angle with Kid, Vince called me into his office and he goes, “Scott…” Actually, he always called me Razor. He said, “Razor, the people are starting to chant your name in towns. I know you hear it. We gotta do something about it.” He said, “I don’t want to turn you babyface like every other f–––in’ guy where we run in and make a save or some sh–– like that. I got this guy who weighs a hundred and twenty pounds soaking wet.” Back then, remember when Global (Wrestling Federation) was on (ESPN)? He said, “I’ve seen this kid in Texas.” I said, “Lightning Kid?” He said, “Yeah, yeah, you know him?” I said, “I don’t know him, but I’ve seen him and I love him.” I said, “You know when he got over with me, Vince?” Because in Global, on the outside, he got thrown out. He had a 20 count to get back in. Instead of ten, it was twenty. So I’m watching the match one time and some guy throws kid out to the floor. Back then, he looked like he was nine. So what he does is, the referee is going “two, three, four…” But Kid knows it’s twenty, right? So he lays on his side, puts his elbow under his head, and makes the referee count to eighteen-and-a-half, then he rolls in. When I saw that, I went, “This f–––in’ guy knows.” Because it was just heat. Plus he could go. So when Vince said that, he says, “Look, we’re gonna do this thing. This guy is gonna beat ya’. Then six weeks later, you keep offering him money, six weeks later we’re gonna have a rematch for ten grand. He’s not going to beat you, but he’s going to steal the money and run away. Then what we’re gonna do…” This was before we did live TV when we used to syndicated market interviews. He said, “Every heel, no matter what they say about their opponent, right at the end, they’re going to go, ‘Oh, speaking of losers, Razor Ramon, what a loser.’” So then he told me, six months ahead of time, you’ll work with, I think, (Ted) DiBiase at Summerslam. Just beat him with your finish. And that’s what I did. But what worked so cool was all the heels, when you get people talking about ya’, that’s better than being on TV. So all the other heels kept burying me. Pretty soon, I didn’t change, the fans changed. That’s the most important thing about turning. Chief Jay Strongbow taught me that. You don’t change, the people change. You don’t change a move, you don’t change nothing, you stay the same. You can’t be slappin’ hands and all that sh––. Pretty soon, the fans started going, “We don’t like you, Razor, but we can’t let him say that about ya’.” It built for six weeks. We had the rematch. Kid ran off with the money. I don’t know, man, it launched his career. Keller: Yes it did. Were you ever hesitant to sell for somebody of his size? Hall: No, not at all. Keller: A lot of guys would be who didn’t understand. Hall: No. I always prided myself on trying to be a television entertainer. It’s sports entertainment. I broke in when it was ‘rasslin, then Vince made it sports entertainment. I was very happy to be a part of sports entertainment. I had no problem with that. I had no problem with that. I’ll tell ya’ what, when Kid beat me on Raw, seventy percent of the people thought it was a shoot. I’ve had guys in Mexico tell me, “Man, his thigh hit you in the head. We thought you were knocked out.” If you look at the audience picture, there were actually people with their hands on their heads going, “Oh my god!” Keller: It was an amazing moment in Raw history. Hall: Let me tell you this. I remember asking Vince, “Should I jump up and go, ‘No, no! Two!’” He goes, “No. Don’t do that. You have to say it was a fluke, but you have to be beat.” Which is crucial. If I jumped up and went, “No, two! Two!” I had to lay there and get beat, then jump up and go, “What the f–––!” It was the highlight of my career. I’ve done lots of jobs. I mean, I don’t care about losing. I’m one of them cats who can lay there and lose and they still chant my name. I ain’t blowing my own horn, but check the footage. Keller: Promoters took advantage of that a little bit, I think, over time, where you were so confident you could survive a job that I think you kind of became a guy they would go to more often than maybe was best. Hall: Well, one thing, too, that the Wolf Pac innovated was, if you beat one of us, you beat all three of us. Because, how could you beat Kid, with me and Kev on the apron. F––– no, we’d make the save. So we invented the pin all three guys. I don’t think anybody in history has ever done that. You can’t find three top heels who would all lay down on a pay–per–view. We did it, and we did it repeatedly. We did it at house shows. We didn’t care. You know why? Because it was the right thing to do. We always thought about giving the people their money’s worth. You know what I always thought about—you know, by the time the people get to the parking lot, man, they aren’t talking about who won or who lost. They’re going, “Man, what a great show. I’m coming back next time.” I mean, they may be talking about who won or lost, and it doesn’t matter, but I want ‘em saying, “Wow, what a show. I’m coming back next time.” Keller: Do you think with UFC pushing the smaller guys who are shorter than Waltman and in most cases thicker than Waltman, but just in general size-wise, they walk down the street in street clothes, and they look like they go to the gym, but a lot of average guys think they could take him in a bar fight. That really gets in the way of Vince McMahon promoting smaller guys. When it comes down to it, you get your money’s worth if a smaller guy who’s a great athlete and has a good personality and he knows how to work smart—not just doing a bunch of spots to do a bunch of spots—I think a smaller guy can make money, but I get the feeling Vince doesn’t think that or he doesn’t have time for them. I think he could learn from UFC and learn from what happened with Waltman that the public doesn’t care. Like you said, they just want their money’s worth. Hall: Well, first of all, Kid’s way different than anybody you’ll ever meet. Have you ever met Vince face to face? Keller: Yes, several times.. Hall: He’s a big man. When he’s taking supplements, he’s even bigger. And Vince has always preferred big men. Back before all the cool commercials and all the different ways to get guys over, you had to parade your guys around in public appearances and they had to be big, scary looking muscle guys. Hulk carried Cyndi Lauper to the Emmys in a tuxedo with the sleeves cut off. I mean, Tacky McTacky. But you gotta remember, that’s the way we did business back then. I ain’t knocking Hulk (Hogan) at all because I love Hulk. But I’m saying that the way business was done back then. But now, I don’t know. I still think Vince prefers big guys.

Part Two Wade Keller: You indicated you don’t like Magnum T.A. Did you have any run-ins with him personally? Scott Hall: No. He was a big star when I first got to Charlotte. But I got nothing bad to say about him. I hope he’s doing good. We had a few run-ins, but I ain’t gonna bad-mouth him. Keller: The Magnum P.I. comparisons aside, you were billed as the next big thing in the AWA in the 1985-’86 era. You were given a lot of pressure early on to produce as a top guy. Hall: Yeah, but can I tell you something? That ship was sinking. I remember being around the Freebirds. I learned a lot from the Freebirds and that’s where I created the Wolfpac. Because I was such a big fan of the Freebirds, I wanted me, Kev (Nash), and Kid (Sean Waltman) to be the Wolfpac because you know they were the same, but they were different. They were brothers. Michael (Hayes) wore the robe; Terry Gordy wore the vest; Buddy Jack (Roberts) wore the baseball sh–, but it was all the same colors, just like me and Kev and Kid. You always had Wolfpac rules. You never knew which two of the three were going to wrestle, and guess what mother f—er? All three of them aren’t wrestling. I always thought that was somethin’ f—in’ special. It had never been done since them. I don’t know, I just thought that was the sh–. Keller: That was the era of bookend tag teams and you guys kind of broke that pattern. Hall: Exactly. Who you wanna see? Two matching guys? “We’re the Road Warriors! Bleaaah!” I just think that’s stale. That’s why I think me and Kev are the best tag team in the world. Keller: You and Kev or you and Kid? Hall: Me and Kev, certainly, and Kid’s gonna be there. Keller: You teamed first with Curt Hennig in the AWA and had a pretty good chemistry. As green as you were at that point, it helped to have someone like Curt there to learn a lot from. Hall: Curt helped me tremendously. I can’t thank him enough. Keller: Did teaming with him come first or the friendship? Hall: I have to say this about Curt. When I moved to Kansas City, I was pretty much in my prime physically. I was f–in’ jacked, bro. As far as Curt knew, I moved there and we were both babyfaces. I was there to take his job, right? You know what, he went out of his way to show me around town. Every road trip we ever made, Curt drove. He used to come to my apartment and pick me up because I didn’t know how to drive in the snow. I’m a Florida boy. But, I mean, he would drive to every town and all the way he was always talkin’ to me, teaching me business, teachin’ me this, teachin’ me that, you know? Another thing, too, is you know what Curt did because he knew it was right because he was second generation? Curt always sold and gave me the hot-tag. He felt that’s what the people wanted to see. He always steered me in the right direction. I learned a few habits from him, but I ain’t gonna dwell on those. But he was an angel as far as I can say professional wrestling wise. Keller: At that point in the AWA, was Curt’s attitude, We can make this work. Let’s make the AWA competitive and successful again? Or was he looking toward the next step also? Hall: You know what I did, man? I’m not from up there and it was cold as hell to me, bro. There were a couple of times when I opened my door and it would be like, “Wheewwishheww!” I just closed my door. One time I didn’t even go to a show in Wisconsin. The next day Verne (Gagne) called me and said, “Where the hell were you?” I said, “Verne, there was travelers advisory. They said don’t drive if you don’t have to.” He said, “That doesn’t matter up here. You were supposed to show up at the show.” Blah blah blah blah blah. You see, they’d do all their business in the winter time because, hell, it only gets nice for about three or four weeks up there. And that’s when you can’t get people to sit in the arena. In the winter time, they do go to the shows. They used to pay great, but then in the summertime, you only work once a month. Like, you get paid great, but you only work two, three shows a month. I remember, I went into Verne and said, “Verne, I got to have more money. I can sell suntan lotion on Cocoa Beach and make a couple grand a week. This is your hometown, bro, it ain’t mine.” He went, “The money comes later.” I said, “My bills come right on time every month.” He went, “I can make you a star.” I said, “Verne, I don’t have to be on your TV to feel good about myself. I like who I am.” He goes, “I’m rich!” I said, “Yeah, I wanna be rich, too. How’s it feel?” He said, “It feels great!” I said, “I wanna be rich, too, Verne. What the f–?” So I gave him my notice and I finished up. Keller: That was the moment you decided to leave, because he wouldn’t give you a raise. Hall: It was the weather and sh–. Another thing, too. I guess it sounds egotistical, but I did not want to be the champion on a sinking ship. So I passed that belt to Curt. The AWA was going under, man. I did not want to be known as the guy who sank that ship. Keller: Do you think Curt realized it was going under, too, or was he still thinking we can make this work? Hall: I think it did wonders for Curt’s career. He got tons of publicity out of it. You know what? I didn’t want the publicity. I didn’t want it. But I’m different than Curt was. I’ve spent so much money on therapy, I’m just trying to figure out who I am, all right? Keller: You worked with Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal, too. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers, too. Any thoughts on those four guys? Hall: I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. Jimmy Garvin’s a pilot now. He flies for Federal Express or something. He was great. Buddy Rose and Doug Somers were great. We didn’t work with them much. They worked with the Rockers the most. That was such a cartoon character. You had the two little pretty boy Rockers, and then you had Buddy and Doug. We didn’t get to work with them that much. We worked with the Long Riders a lot, but I thought they both sucked. God bless Scott Irwin. He was wonderful. His brother Bill Irwin’s a **** and I don’t care if you print that straight out. Keller: Why is that? Hall: Because he was a selfish prick. You know why he hated me? Because I was getting a push and he didn’t think I deserved it. Keller: You weren’t happy in the AWA because of the weather and the pay with Verne. Was the overall attitude in the AWA that it was a sinking ship? I’m interested in this because this was right before I started writing the Torch and I’m fascinated with AWA history. I was a fan then, cheering for you, because Hogan abandoned the AWA and you were the replacement guy. Hall: You know why Hogan left? You ever heard that? Keller: I’ve heard a lot of different stories. Hogan told me his version. Hall: I guess if you heard it from Hulk, you heard the truth. Keller: (laughs) I wouldn’t go that far. Hall: What I heard, and I don’t know how accurate it is. I think it’s pretty damn accurate was, Hulk’s not a mark. Hulk’s a businessman. Anybody who doesn’t think that has not spent any time with Hulk. What he wanted was, he had been going around the loop with Nick (Bockwinkel), and let’s face it, Hulk was a monster then. He was, like, 330. He’s wrestling Nick. I like Nick, but Nick does hit little wrestling moves and all his bullsh– and all Hulk wanted was in St. Paul, he just wanted to win the belt. He said, “Look, I’ll drop it back to ya’, but I’ve been promising the fans for months that I’m gonna win the belt. When you’re a babyface, if you don’t win eventually, you’re f—ed. The way I heard it was, Hulk kinda wanted the belt, and they didn’t want to give it to him, and it was adios amigos. He went to Japan then. Keller: He also had a problem with merchandise money, too. That was at issue. Hall: Verne was so behind the times on merchandise, I’m sure, any merchandise Hulk was getting was, like, t-shirts. There were no videogames, there were no dolls back then, bro. We’re talking the ’80s. Keller: I think he started to realize the potential in it. That was the very beginning of Hulkamania. Vince McMahon takes credit for Hulkamania, but it absolutely was exactly the same act in the WWF that it was in the AWA. Hall: When Hulk first left Verne, he made huge money in Japan. Then he did the movie. When he went to Vince and he got red-hot, he was making ten million a year reportedly, although who knows? There ain’t nobody making ten million a year now. Keller: Not even close. Hall: Ten million a year in the ’80s, bro? Hooo. Keller: Greg Gagne was around then, too. Did you have to deal with him much? Was he helping to run the company at that point? Hall: Yeah he was. Keller: Was he competent in his job? Was he a lot like Verne? Was he trying to be better and different than Verne? Hall: It’s really hard for me to knock Greg because he’s a real kind-hearted person and all that. I actually saw a little footage of him when he inducted his father into the Hall of Fame. Oh my god, he looked rough. But, I mean, to me, I’ve always thought you gotta look like a wrestler. Keller: He didn’t even try. Hall: You got any Greg Gagne merchandise in your collection? What about “Jumpin’” Jim Brunzell? Let me get this right. Your finish is a dropkick? I’ll never forget the time, I can’t remember who, but they brought these heels in to work with the High Flyers. The guys said, “What do you guys do? What do you do off the top?” They said, “We don’t do anything off the top?” They said, “Well, you’re called the High Flyers, right?” “Well, yeah, yeah.” I actually thought they were kinda brutal, but you gotta remember, it was simpler times, man. Keller: The movie, “The Wrestler,” ended with a dropkick. Verne had a soft spot for the dropkick because that was his finisher. He downed Bill Robinson at the end of the movie with it. Hall: F—in’ Billy Robinson is a ****. Keller: I’ve heard that. You deal with personally at all? Hall: I’ve been around him. He was just one of those bitter old school guys. He’s like Lou Thesz, Bruno (Sammartino). “I’m really a tough guy and f— these guys, I didn’t make any money. F— these guys.” Keller: What about Larry Nelson? He was a cult favorite of mine because he was so off the wall. Hall: To me, he was a little bit white bread. He was a little bit too much. I prefer the era of wrestling when the announcers started to tell the truth. I liked Jesse Ventura. I liked Gorilla Monsoon. I liked Bobby Heenan. I liked Vince. I liked Perfect. I liked guys where if you missed a move a little bit, they’ll say, “Ah, it looked like they missed him with that on.” I always wanted to wrestle in front of Jesse Ventura. You know why? I knew I could get over without the office holding me back because Jesse would tell the truth. Because if you did something in front of Jesse and it looked good, he’d go, “Wow, that looked good.” At the same time, if somebody did something in front of Jesse and it looked bad - Gorilla, too - they’d go, “I don’t think he caught him with all of that.” I liked that. I think the referees have to have authority. If there’s no rules, there’s no heat. I remember when I first went to work for Eric Bischoff, they were doing a divorce angle between Macho (Randy Savage) and Elizabeth and (Ric) Flair, and he was spending her alimony. And they were doing some other sh–. I said, “Wait a minute, we’re doing a divorce angle?” Guys would do interviews going, “I’m gonna kill you!” I said, “Eric, no, man. No no no. How long can you go with that sh–?” We’ve got a weekly program. The belts have to mean something. It has to. It’s all about winning and losing matches. Like, me and Shawn wrestled for almost three years. Everybody knew we were friends, but it was, “I’m better than you.” “No you’re not.” “Yes I am.” “Well, prove it. I’ll be there. I’m the pretty mother f—er with the velvet black hair. After the match, I’ll meet you in the bar and guess what, I’ll drink it to you, ya’ prick. It’s not a hatred thing. I don’t think hatred draws money. I think all that negativity is the wrong way to go. I watched TNA the other day and it was so bush. I was watching the guys going, “Somebody’s going to die. I’ll do anyyyythiiiinnggg!” I’m thinking, “No you won’t. You gotta be back next week, you f—in’ goof.” Keller: I’m not crazy about promising death to anybody. Hall: Did you see TNA where they juiced the tag team champs, Angel (Christopher Daniels) and A.J. (Styles)? So guess what? Forty-five minutes go by, they interview them in the back, and they still got juice. How come they’re not bandaged up? How come they’re not all cleaned up? And why is everybody so mad? That’s so basic wrestling interview 101. “Okay, man, I’m gonna get you, I’m gonna kill ya’, I’m gonna kill ya’.” Why don’t you go, “Okay, you got me, man. You’re pretty tough. Guess what, I’m pretty tough, too, man. I’m gonna heal up. I’m not gonna think about nothing until I see you again.” That’s what draws money. Not this ranting and raving bullsh– that nobody buys. Keller: If everybody is yelling at the same volume, nobody stands out. Hall: And they all do it. You can hear it from the kitchen. That’s one thing I learned from Jerry Blackwell. Jerry Blackwell used to talk like this [whispering]. Then he’d get real, real quiet [softer]. Like this. You know why? Because you’re leaning forward to your TV set then. Keller: I loved Blackwell’s whole act. Hall: You know why? If somebody’s yelling and ranting and raving, blah blah blah blah blah. F—in’, you can be in the kitchen making a sandwich, it doesn’t matter. You know who I thought was sweet was Jake. I’m a huge fan of Jake the Snake because he had the look, he had the rap, he had the moves, he’s money. There’s a few guys I patterned my career after. Jake, (Bruiser) Brody, and (Stan) Hansen. Not their moves, but they’re mentality. F—, I don’t need to throw the Ricky Steamboat deep armdrag. I need to get over. I want to make money. I want to draw money. Keller: Let’s jump from the AWA to your first run in WCW when you were renamed the Diamond Studd. Hall: I was Scott Hall first, bro. I was Scott Hall going nowhere. Keller: When did the Diamond Studd come up in that run, then? Hall: Ric Flair was booking. He booked me with Terry Funk twice on TV. The first time I was out with Terry Funk’s daughter all night. I didn’t do nothing’ with her, but I was out all night with her, treating her with a lady. Nothing like that. But the next night that f—er hit me with a branding iron so hard, I got like eight stitches. So blah blah blah, time goes by. I get to next TV, they got me booked with Terry Funk again. I went to Flair - plus I had already called Otto Wanz, this wrestling company in Europe and Austria. I said (to Flair), “Look, I’ve already put the prick over on TV once. I’m not doing it again.” Flair said, “Nobody’s asking you to do it.” I said, “Ric, f– you, man. You’re the one calling the shots, you’re writing the TVs. Don’t f—in’ tell me you didn’t write this down. I’m not doing it. And by the way, I’m giving my two weeks notice. F— you!” So I went and worked for Otto then. Then I was kind of unemployed and I came back from working with Otto. But I left on kind of good terms, you know what I mean? I did jobs on the way out. But not on TV. And then I called (Dallas) Page and now I’m coming back with my wife six months pregnant from Europe. I was just going to go work at Sears. I figured I thought I had it, but I guess I don’t, so f— it. I called Page and told him to get me a job. And so that’s when the Diamond Studd was born. It could have been way better, but they had me in that jobrini spot. Keller: It was a weird era for WCW because it seemed like they were trying to find what their niche was. They were no longer the We Wrestle promotion. Hall: Wade, you know what my only comment has been about it when people ask me about these things? I always make this distinction. WCW is a television program that programs wrestling and the WWE is a wrestling company that programs wrestling. Know what I mean? Turner, they put wrestling on their station, but Vince (McMahon) is a wrestling company that produces and programs wrestling shows. That’s the distinction. It’s not hard to tell the distinction when you watch the show. I mean, it’s like watching good porn and bad porn. Vince’s show is way tighter, way better, although it’s deteriorating in my opinion. I’ve always said this, too. You’re only as good as your opponent. DX is red hot right now. I want to say kudos to the whole defacing the property and the spray paint. Wow, how original! It’s kudos. They’re my boys. They’re paying me and Kev tributes by copying our sh–. How can DX be DX, just two of them? How long can that last? I just think right now they’re the hottest thing in wrestling, without question. Shawn Michaels is one of the most gifted, talented wrestlers and athletes in the world. Hunter is, Paul, whatever you want to call him, is also equally talented. He’s super. Between the two of them, they get it. They know how to make money, they know how to do business. But guess what, Wade? Who are they going to work with? Keller: The McMahons and that’s it. Hall: Gee, wow, that draws money. How many times can you put them (against each other). Now it’s Hell in a Cell! Oh gee, a lot of people are going to buy that. Keller: I think a lot of fans look at DX and they like them from a nostalgia standpoint. They’re not the same as the original. Hall: They need Road Dogg, they need Billy Gunn, they need the whole crew. Keller: And (Sean) Waltman, more than anybody. I think fans see this as just a short term reunion tour of the band. I don’t think they see it as something long-term. I think that does limit them. Hall: That’s why it’s withering. Okay, let me ask you this? This may be too soon, because you may want to end (the interview) after this. I ain’t tired of talkin’ This gets me psyched. What’s their main music? What happens if you hear, “Are you ready?” So what happens if they play that and then the arena goes dark, and then you put that (sings music) f–in’ NWO porn music? What’s gonna happen? Keller: What would happen if that happened? I don’t know. Hall: Well, would the people just sit there and twiddle their thumbs? Keller: They would pop because they would anticipate something about to happen that’s pretty newsworthy. Hall: Then put us on the TitanTron. On the Tron. I don’t know. Keller: I want to tie a bow around that first run in WCW. You talked about how it felt like a conglomerate that happened to be running a wrestling show. You hadn’t advanced to the WWF yet, but was there anything you took from that experience at that time that you either learned what to do right or what to do wrong given the way the company was run. Hall: You want to hear a funny story? Keller: Yeah, of course. Hall: My good buddy Curt Hennig was working for Vince right? I used to call there once a month. I’d call Pat Patterson’s office. I get his secretary. “Can I speak to Pat? Can I speak to Pat?” “He’s busy right now.” “Well, tell him Scott Hall called.” The first time I debuted on Vince’s TV, I come in for a tryout, them *****es make me drive from Orlando. So after a sh– box drive from Orlando, I can’t afford no hotel. So I drive right back home. And I got three messages on my phone. So I called Pat. All of a sudden I get right through, boy. Funny as heel. “Hey, Scott, how you doing!” (imitating Pat). That’s when I went to the black and the stubble and I changed my look. Pat says, “God damn, Vince loves your look. He loves it. Tell me, did you sign a contract with those guys?” I said, “Pat, I just signed a one year deal with those pricks.” I said, “I don’t wanna work there. I wouldn’t have called your office if I had wanted to work there.” You know what he said? He goes, “Don’t worry, in a year you’ll be able to tell them New York wants you.” So, I just put in my time and tried to get over as good as I could. Keller: So you knew for the last year you were in WCW that you were going to head to (the WWF)? Hall: Yeah, but Vince still makes you earn it. He makes you earn it. I mean, a year went by. He makes you earn it. You see, I earned it. Keller: What’s the best part of that run in WCW? Was it getting to know Dallas Page? Hall: Don’t get me wrong, I loved Dally and he did a lot of things to help me, but have you ever met Dallas Page? Keller: Yes. Hall: He is exhausting. Keller: (laughs) That’s a good word. Hall: And I’m not. You know what I mean? But Dally is a wonderful person and I wish him nothing but the best, but he was like holy roller. Keller: It doesn’t slow down, it doesn’t stop. It’s 98 percent him. Hall: He’s a total self-promotion guy. He’s always on, you know? Keller: He doesn’t seem to realize it, though? Hall: You know what? Dallas is an overachiever, man. And you know one thing I will say in all pride is that anybody ever treated me good in this business, I always paid them back. Like, one night in New Orleans in the Super Dome when the NWO was red smokin’ hot and it was me, Kev, Hogan, and we might have had Giant. We’re growin’. So we called Dallas out. We were offering him a t-shirt. So he takes the t-shirt, puts it on. Kev goes to the corner and stands in the corner and raises his hands in the corner. I pick Dallas’s arm and raise it up. Dallas spins me into the Diamond Cutter, bang, peels the t-shirt off, throw it on me, Kev charges him, boom, sidestep Kev, backdrop him over the top rope. F–in’ people going crazy. Dallas runs up the crowd in the SuperDome. That was the first time he ever did that and it became his gimmick. He rode up in the SuperDome and it made me feel good because I was paying my boy back, you know. And it made him. He was the first guy to say no to the NWO. It was pretty sweet. But you know how we always talked about it, you gotta have opponents. That’s why I was talking about DX before. DX is great and the Outsiders are great. You know, how far can they milk that sh– with the McMahons? They’re gonna need opponents. Keller: When you did go to the WWF, was it a matter of money at all, or was it total faith that that was the place to be where the most opportunity would be and that’s where you wanted to be? Hall: It was a dream come true, bro. I’ll never forget going into a meeting. Vince goes, “Well, I understand…” Because Vince back then, business was different. Everybody was a Bossman or a Firefighter or a Convict. Why can’t you just be a wrestler, right? And luckily I had Hennig with me. So we went into Vince’s office. He goes, “Well, I understand your father’s in the army.” See, I knew I was going to meet with Vince, and I had been around six, seven years, so I wasn’t that nervous. At this point I figured I had nothing to lose. What are you going to do, send me home? F— you, man. I’ll bounce in a bar. I don’t care. Like, when you don’t care, you have power. There’s two times in this life, in my opinion, you have power. When you have enough power you don’t give an F. And when you have so little money, you don’t give an F. At that point, I said, “Vince, you want me to be a G.I. Joe, I’ll be the best G.I. Joe I can be. Did you ever see Scarface?” He went, “Wella, uh, no, I didn’t.” I went, “Say hello to the bad guy.” I just started to doing all that schtick with him. And having never seen the movie, Vince thinks I’m a genius. (laughs) Know what I mean? “You need somebody like me, man, so you can point your stinkin’ finger and whisper, Look, there goes the bad guy. You’re never going to see another bad guy like me.” He’s looking at me markin’ out. He’s never seen the movie. He doesn’t know I’m doing Tony Montana. He thinks I’m making this sh– up. He said, “We need a name.” I said, “Well, how about Razor?” I had been thinking about it. I had tossed around a few names. I liked Razor. At that time there was Razor Ruddick, the boxer. I went, “I’d kick his monkey-f—in’ ass.” And Vince started laughing and went, “Fine, fine. We need a last name.” So I ran out there and I was taking a piss, and Tito (Santana) was washing his hands. I said, “Tito, I need a last name that starts with an R, man.” He went, “Ramon.” I went right next to him and said, “Razor Ramon.” He said, “That’s it.” And that was the birth of Razor Ramon.

For the first time in history, all three world champions face off in the same match! John Cena Vs. King Booker Vs. The Big Show Which championship do you want to be defended? - The WWE Championship - The World Heavyweight Title - The ECW Heavyweight Title HBK & HHH Vs. Edge & Randy Orton Who do you want to be the referee? - Vince McMahon - Eric Bischoff - The Coach Intercontinental Title Match Jeff Hardy Vs. ? Who do you want to be Jeff Hardy's opponent? - Carlito Cool - Shelton Benjamin - Johnny Nitro World Tag Titles Match The Spirit Squad Vs. Ric Flair & ? Who do you want to be Flair's partner? - Dusty Rhodes - Roddy Piper - Sgt. Slaughter Umaga Vs. ? Who do you want to be Umaga's opponent? - Kane - Chris Benoit - The Sandman Womens Championship Tournament Finals Lita Vs. Mickie What type of match do you want to see the Divas in? - No DQ - Submission - Divas Lumberjack Charlie Haas & Viscera Vs. Cryme Tyme Vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs. The Highlanders What type of match do you want to see these four teams compete in? - Fatal Four Way - Tag Team Turmoil - Texas Tornado For me:

NPH is still awesome.

Easily one of the best movies I have ever seen although I just WISH that As for the pregnancy bit, I really wanted I figured it happened because of the whole "bitches are attracted to assholes" thing. The moment they kissed / started fucking, I yelled "WHORE!" to get some laughs from the audience.

Saw it yesterday. It was better than I expected. If you like unrealistic action movies like the Transporter, Cena's movie is definitely worth a look. I'll cut him some slack after all, this is John's first movie, but Robert Patrick definitely MADE this movie enjoyable. Pretty much your standard 80s era action hero role (Think Commando / Hard Target). The Rock could have easily done this. Thankfully Cena didn't do any of his trademark moves except for the shoulder block. It was kind of funny seeing him no selling punches as Van Damme does the same thing. His acting wasn't terrible, but then again he was playing a grunt so there wasn't really much to it. The Marine was A LOT better than most of the direct to video action movies you see in the video stores so yes they actually did put effort into this film. WAY better than Kane's movie. Of course, there was an explosion in the movie every 20 minutes. I agree they went overboard with it, but it was actually fun to watch. I just wish they were more violent (camera cuts away whenever somebody gets shot / killed), it would have made the movie better. I could actually see Cena moving on in a couple of years. He has so much potential being an "actor" as well as getting his music career to flourish. Best part of the movie: - Q

Somebody made an exact copy of the Spider-Man 3 teaser trailer using clips from the 90s cartoon. Very well done IMO!

I love the SAW series. I mean it will gross people out, but it has elaborate storytelling to make up for it, not like Hostel where it has gore just to have gore. And I've seen a lot of horror movies so visual doesn't really bother me anymore unless it has something to do with the eyes. I'm more sickened by sound like when . Hearing a snap or a crack will make me cringe. Quick question: About Jigsaw: About Dr. Gordon and Det. Matthews My only gripes: But even with those small gripes, it didn't affect my overall enjoyment of the part 3. Hope they keep milking the series for all its worth!

I saw the trailer for STF. It looked pretty good. As for Carrey's serious work, I really enjoyed the Majestic.

About time. I'm guessing he ran out of souls to steal energy from to continue hosting.

I want Brainiac damn it!!!

Plus Eddie gave his blessing and helped convinced management to have JBL be the WWE Champion since they were chums.

You might as well just get Tivo / DVR and burn it to DVD. I'm sure the Rumble anthology will just like the WM set. They'll either release a big box or separate it into four little boxes. I'm not worried about the last one since I have 2000 - 2006 on DVD already. If they turn out to be the VHS versions, you might as well just import the Rumble DVDs from Silvervision. All the music, WWF references, and apparantly the WWF scratch logo are kept intact. So far, they have 1989 - 1998 out now.

Fabulous fucking sucks.

1979 kicked ass.

I think the Rumble one will be like the Wrestlemania that they'll be in their "full live entirety" except with the obvious music editing unless Vince decides to pay up Jimmy Hart. The reason I see is because those were just 1 disc and they've both accomplished A LOT more since then. 619 covered his life up until WM XIX. Word Life was from his debut to Christmas In Iraq 2003. I don't mind, hopefully they'll have good selections this time.

In Memory of Eddie Guerrero

Well, the World Series sucked.

I'm glad to see you can put a cord into the controller.

Definitely getting the Rumble Anthology. The Horsemen DVD is going to be awesome. The Ladder one sounds pretty good. Still iffy on Cena considering what matches they decide to put on it since on Word Life they left off on Christmas in Iraq. And I'm surprised they're releasing another Austin DVD, I thought that's what the Stone Cold Truth was about? Edit: Nevermind about what I said about Austin, I forgot TSCT was just one disc.