UseTheSledgehammerUh

I wish these guys had some better looking outfits (Tajiri's possee)... Matrix-like Maneuver? I've never understood the back-flip off the guy that the cruisers do...it does less damage then the damn Worm...and looks fake.

Yang really messed up the spinning headscissors. The bigger guy "Taketa?" reminds me of the Orient Express' Sato.

To the guy that just said "whose fault is it" that RVD and Booker T aren't seen as credible challengers, I'll answer that. It's the fault of both RVD/Booker, and the WWE writers. RVD's peak was Summer/Fall 2001, shoulda been taken care of there. Was defeating Austin & The Rock then...now is losing to Sylvain Grenier in flag matches. His lack of microphone skills hurts his chances for a long title reign. The writers have also fucked up RVD. You fans blame HHH for holding RVD down? RVD was granted a RAW TITLE match at Unforgiven 2002....less than a MONTH after the RAW TITLE was established. You honestly think they would've had a title change so SOON? Why? Cause the SHITTY buildup was there only because RVD was a stupid 4 corners match? Please. WRITING screwed RVD, not Triple H. Booker T just isn't a credible challenger, sorry man. From his "poor man's version of The Rock" in WCW 2000, including STEALING HIS FUCKING FINISHER, he has always been a second-rate character. The writers in WWE have realized this, jobbing him to everyone, everywhere, in his hometown, etc. He's an ok workers, but not Championship Material "People Like Him" honestly DON'T deserve to main event with HHH. That's not racist, just an opinion of his skill. He gets Undertaker heat...pops during his entrance, but limited ring skill, with ridiculous moves "the wait 20 seconds...axe kick..." COME ON. The writers have to do a better job. Kane, RVD, and Goldberg are the only potential credible challengers for Triple H. RVD isn't right now, but could be with the right venues and writing. Kane's a boring heel right now, so that leaves Goldberg. Yay.

I don't think anyone questioned whether HHH and Foley would produce a **** match. The question was "what would this match serve a purpose for?" Honestly, besides Goldberg, HHH (as of now...and time is running out...) has no credible opponents for WM. Unless they seriously, seriously build a RVD/HHH title match (which I personally believe will happen...despite RVD swimming in the deep end of the crowded midcard pool right now), HHH/Foley is just fine. It adds star power, and I'm sure the two could work something good. <thinks back to days before SummerSlam '02... (Scott Keith rant) "OH MY GOD HHH SUX AND HBK IS CRIPPLED!!! NEGATIVE FIVE STARS!!! THIS PROGRAM IS ALL ABOUT THEM!! ITS GONNA SUCK AND IM GONNA LAUGH!" And Foley ISN'T returning from a broken back. Plus, HHH is better in the ring than he was in Aug. 2002.

Foley would defeat Triple H is and only if he is in shape. Why would Foley get the win, while RVD and Booker wouldn't you ask? Foley is a 3-time World Champion that has history...and in some cases, had drawn well with HHH before. RVD and Booker T are midcarders on RAW. Feuding with Christian and Scott Steiner.

Hey Andrew, could you stop salivating over Foley for 5 minutes and think before you type? "HHH shoulda learned from Foley"... Learned what? No offense, I think Foley had a nice run, but besides the hardcore bumps in a few matches, Hunter has had just as many great bouts as Mick. He's also headlined more big shows. He's also been praised by the internet until getting injured...and now the marks on here, who verbally blow Angle and such, have nothing but hate for Hunter, who is forced to work with stiffs on RAW...while Angle gets Benoit, Guerrero, Lesnar, Cena, etc. on Smackdown, at least in big PPV matches. I'm not gonna blast Foley, but don't diss HHH just because he went over Mick when Mick was ADMITTINGLY 5 months past when he was supposed to retire. Idiot.

"WAHHHHHHH!!!!!! Foley is gonna lose!!! WAHHH!!!!" Honestly, I think Foley should go over. One last win in MSG, as long as he is in shape, over the guy he could never beat, HHH. If Foley is out of shape/bringing nothing to the table, I hope he gets Pedigreed through the mat, again, from a fan's POV.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that realizes what a boring, bland wrestler Booker T is. Give Triple H a run with some OVER, CREDIBLE TALENT and then see if his ringwork improves. His JOB is to represent the RAW brand as either the biggest name (World Champion) or the top heel challenger. His job is not to make RVD seem like a credible challenger. That's RVD's job through his ringwork and promos. One of which he doesn't do. His job is not to make Booker T see like a credible challenger. Sure, he gets nice pops for his entrance, but his boring ringwork is what makes him UNINTERESTING and not CREDIBLE...not "HHH being unbeatable". Anyone bashing HHH for his position is full of shit. He deserves it more than a glorified WCW tag team wrestler or The Comic Book Guy.

Um, anyway, basically I'll end my objections to the stupidity of this thread bashing Triple H for the following reasons: 1)Don't bash HHH for Booker T's lack of credibility and success in the world title feud. I could care less how Vince ruined Booker T during the invasion. My point was that HHH put over Booker as best he could. Booker wasn't credible? That's not Trip's fault. He gave him a pinfall lost, a WM World Title Match, and a rematch. T failed to draw as a challenger, not Trips' fault. 2)Trips was AWFUL in 2002, I'll admit it. He came back way too soon and didn't deserve the God-push. 3)Trips has gotten in much better cardio-shape, as well as improved drastically in the ring in 2003. He was booked with Steiner in Jan-Feb, a guy that hadnt worked a long, major PPV match since what, early 2001? Steiner blows. He's also been booked with stiffs like Nash. He has given exciting bouts with the likes of RVD and Kane, as well as the Booker rematch. 4)Trip's "work" in Elimination Chamber was brilliant, as he did nothing, looked like a pussy, and kept the title. That's how a cocky heel champ works sometimes. It put massive heat on Goldberg (at least until the next RAW, you can't argue that), and the HHH/Berg Unforgiven match was booked brilliantly, considering Trips' condition. (Berg screwed at SS, HHH gloats, goats him into a stip., sends his goons after, Berg wins it...). 5)I'll take Trips' working ok/decent matches with the crappy RAW roster over say giving Booker T, a guy that in the fans eyes is a midcarder, a "big reign" as champ. Didn't we see this in fall 2000 in WCW? Booker T sucks. 6)Trips will put over Goldberg (again...) at Survivor Series. Or he won't, and I'll still be happy. Learn to enjoy the focus of the show more...the undercard sucks, yes, but until your midcard darlings prove they can draw and seem credibile in the eyes of the crowd/company, Trips had no competition (with the exception of Goldberg) on the RAW Brand. Honestly, that SUCKS. I'd like RVD to win (as I am a big RVD fan) at SSeries and get pushed as a serious threat in the world title picture. But lately all he seems to do is cry about politics in his little comic book shop. Learn how business works, RVD.

First of all, how did HHH "shove Booker T to the midcard" ? I didn't know HHH had 100% booking power. HHH-Hogan This is 2002, doesn't matter. Hogan had an awful match with a totally healthy Rock. Not HHH's fault. HHH-Booker T(Both on Raw) The second one was pretty good. The first was right before SurSeries 2002, and I dont recall it being awful. HHH-RVD(Raw) The Lumberjack Match was just stupid booking. The second was exciting and well, well worked. It also made HHH look like a PUSSY (Flair interferes, intentional DQ, Orton interferes, 3 Vs. 1. It PUT OVER RVD, who 5-starred Hunter, kicked Flair AND Orton's asses for 5 minutes. RVD lost, but looked great.) HHH-Taker(KOTR) This is 2002. Doesn't matter. HHH-Steiner(RR,NWO) Steiner is awful. I'm sure Hunter didn't wish to work with him. And BTW, for the idiot that said "Test got better matches outta Steiner, yee-haw!". This was MONTHS after Steiner started wrestling again, and got a little better after TV matches, house shows, etc. I'll give you that, Test/Steiner was EONS better than HHH/Steiner...but I think its an unfair comparison. HHH-Nash(JD,Didn't See Bad Blood) Well, the Hell in the Cell was overbooked, and wasn't awful. Not great. Why does HHH get all this shit for having terrible opponents to work with. HHH-Flair(The night he got handed the Title) 2002. Doesn't relate to my argument. Do you know how to READ? (But BTW, HHH/Flair DID have an exciting Raw atch (the one w/ the untelevisied Flair ceremony afterwards). Why? Cause Flair got support to tackle the unstoppable, credible champ. HHH-Kane(On Raw) This was the mask match, and wasn't bad. Look at the RAW roster...who is there for HHH to defend against? They couldnt do HHH/Berg yet. It was Kane/RVD, and he worked fine matches with them. HHH-Buh Ray Dudley(Raw) 2002. Read my posts, please. HHH-Hurricane(Raw) Umm....Hurricane got 90% of the offense in this one, the night after WM 19. It gave the undeserving Shane Helms, who had no place in a match with the RAW Champ the night after a WM 19 World Title match, some credibility. HHH-Jeff Hardy(Raw) 2002, LEARN TO READ. HHH-Maven(Heat) Didn't see it. Maven sucks. HHH-Taker(Raw) The night after SummerSlam 2002? LEARN TO FUCKING READ. Great opponents, there, save for Booker/Kane/RVD.

He put Booker T over by taking a mid-card tag wrestler who hadn't been on the previous PPV and working a world title program with him for 2 months. "Putting over" refers to making a wrestler look good. Not "jobbing" to him. He was pinned by Booker T, and gave Booker a competitive match at Mania, as well as a hyped rematch on RAW that was the main event. That's how he put him over.

My point was that HHH/RVD was much better than Booker/RVD would have been at that time. HHH had much more credibility than T, and Booker, quite honestly, aside from what, his WCW run as TV champ, being carried by Benoit and Martel, did nothing for me. He bored me. HHH's run was shit? Well...business didn't plummet, nor did it get better. Yet during his run thousands on here had SOMETHING to say about him, business was steady, and you all still watched. "Shit" my ass.

HHH defended the strap against RVD on the RAW after Kane lost his mask, I do believe. The marks hyped it on here as "Kane turning on RVD is predictable, but I think we'll be surprised and HHH could drop the title". The excitement during the match on the boards was evident, as people went nuts during Flair's interference that ended it in DQ, as well as being happy for The Bisch restarting the match. You think Booker T Vs. RVD for the title would have heat? RVD/HBK sucked last November...and HBK, as bad a draw as he is, is a much more believable champion than Booker T, who was a boring/shitty IC champ for his 3 weeks, and you want him to hold the Raw title? HAHA.

Uh....Knox...let's see: Booker T, start of 2003: An over midcard tag wrestler that has just jobbed the straps to the Incredibly Boring Duo of Regal/Storm, who I don't recall even making the PPV at No Way Out 2003. The HHH feud came. Hunter did a "racist"-type storyline, that he didn't have to. He lost to Booker T by PINFALL on RAW (for the second time in 4 months while holding the title), and worked a decent WM match, which was NOT hurt by the ending. T's leg was destroyed, he hit the Houston Hangover, but his leg (which took the impact, was destroyed. HHH hit the Pedigree for a convincing win.) Booker T was then given a leg up on Flair/HHH, and granted a rematch that was hyped big time. It went to a no-contest, but T was kept around til the six-man at Backlash, and he did not take the fall, BTW. Who knows...perhaps Booker T's merchandise sales BLEW during Jan-May 2003. He's just not a credible world champ, sorry people. HHH put him over to the point that he deserved, a non-title pinfall loss and a WORLD TITLE MATCH at WM 19.

Stop bitching about Hunter...he's the only other guy on RAW that could credibly be the champion right now. (Not picking a fight with the Y2J, Booker T, and RVD fans, as they're good workers, but are involved with their own feuds in the midcard for now/the past year). Personally, I don't feel Triple H will win the title back at Survivor Series. I definately think Raw will feature Batista Vs. Goldberg at Armageddon, but promoting Batista to a singles World Title match so soon is chancey, so maybe Triples will win WWE World Title #8 on RAW after SS. At any rate, Hunter has worked a MUCH BETTER 2003 than his disasterous, too-soon from injury 2002. He got booked with shitty Steiner, not his fault, for 2 months. His feud with Booker T was good. He put The Book over on RAW, worked a decent (but not great) WM match with him, and built to an exciting rematch on RAW that people TOOK BOOKER T seriously in! He got stuck with Nash, and produced a not-bad main event at BBlood. Trips had a couple of exciting bouts on RAW with Kane and RVD, that got people on here excited during the show, as seen on the boards. His World Title reign was extreely credible, and he's been boggled down with injuries lately. Still, he'll hopefully be back to 100%, and hopefully reclaim the title from Goldberg. He's also allowed Batista to become a main player, via using HHH's heat during the "bounty" storyline to enable only a "name" to collect. Batista isn't a name, but slowly is becoming one due to HHH's involvement. Also, Orton and Flair continue to have credibility due to their association with Trips, and their role as his henchmen sees to have kept the RAW ratings consistent. It doesn't help to have so much SHIT (Rico, Jindrak, Cade, Maven, Rosey, Hurricane, Henry, Heidenreich, Gail Kim, La Resistance....) surrounding the group, so don't leave your "Evolution has done nothing for the ratings" crap. Stop HHHating....

For 49.00 or whatever this crock of shit costs, I bet you can learn "the dirt" on how cruiserweights "arent mainstream" and how Lex brutally murdered the lovely Elizabeth. Give it up, Vince.

Chapter 121: "A-Train...why, let's push him!"

BONUS EPILOGUE~! Mark Henry and 10 year contracts.

I think the place was Gibson's. Anyway, I really liked that place. I hate eating at The Ground Round, because the food blows and the chicken has soe chemical that induces crapping 20 minutes after eating EVERY time. Best fast food: Taco Bell, Something about Mt. Dew in those plastic cups makes it colder and better. Worst fast food: Boston Market Drive Thru. God, could they seperate the food any worse??! I don't like chicken crushed in cheese and spiced apples and the "secure" (ha!) container cracked and my seats covered in grease/cheese/who knows what else. I guess Boston is cursed with having everything shitty. -EdO

I visited Chicago during August 2001, and got invited to eat dinner with some voice actors/actresses of the Dragonball Z show (Bulma, Krillin) and later Jason Mewes of J & SB fame. It was during Wizard World's 2001 Chicago convention and the restaurant was directly across the street from the Rosement Convention Center. It was super high-class and extremely pricy, but forever remains the greatest food/drink I have tried. Anyone have an idea of the name of the place? I believe it's one word.

And Hogan, much like Triple H, is a genius at doing business. 19 World Title reigns, brother.

Rudo, yes he does. The other aspects of Orton far outweight Helms, however. Helms has reached the peak of what he can do. He's pretty repetitive right now, but DOES sell merchandise with his ridiculous gimmick. Where does Helms go from here? Orton, on the other hand, is finally being pushed with purpose, not just pushed "up there with HHH and Flair" as a placeholder in Evolution. Orton has nowhere to go but up.

Orton's had shitty workers to build his worth against. The one's that he has wrestled that are decent, take The Hurricane, he goes over and everyone bitches because "Hurricane should be pushed, not Randy!" Even though Hurricane has less of a box-office future. The "smarks" seem to forget that pro wrestling is a business sometimes...and that it isn't always about who's best being pushed. It's about pushing talent that is 1)marketable (Orton's got the look), 2)believeable (he's a ripped guy that has some of the best character movements on RAW, and believably can hurt people) and 3)can draw (Orton's moveset and skill is developing, and he's becoming a bigger star, and able to work bigger matches...you'll see).

Two things: Orton has not been getting his character over for a year. He was hurt immediately after he joined Evolution (as was Batista) in a house show tag Vs. the Dudleyz. His character started the Raw following Bad Blood (or at Bad Blood, when his interference established him). That's July to November. 4 Fucking Months. In that time, he has worked with: Maven (ugh...), Goldberg (squashed on the road to Unforgiven), Shawn Michaels (in a decent match), Booker T (in a 1 minute spot where T kicked his ass), and was used as fodder in the Elimination Chamber to hide HHH's weakness. "we all said Orton would have a breakthrough at Summerslam and Unforgiven..." BULLSHIT! He was NOT going to shine at SummerSlam in a six-way fucking cage match where he was the least exposed on TV of the 6. Unforgiven...hey, he worked a decent match. He's on his way. And my 2nd point: The "Internet Match" thing was simply a plea for you "holier than thou" supersmark posters to view The Smackdown tag as Benoit/Angle Vs. The Hosses....a plea for you to enjoy their struggle, and hopefully, their victory. It reflects (once the dead weight on their team is gone) the two top mat-workers Vs. The Slugs. You people will never, ever be happy unless a new star is perfect from day one. Fuck that. Stunning Steve sucked his first WCW year. I found Mankind lame his first year. Michaels was a chubby, awful singles wrestler (take HBK/El Matador, WM 8....zzz...) until Oct 92... Give Orton a fucking break and notice positive changes, not negatives. Or don't, and keep bitching. At least some of us can see the state of wrestling for what it is now: Rebuilding and Establishing New Faces.

Give Orton time, jeez. He's been doing alright for a new character (as of what, Feb. 2003, was when his Evolution ran began) placed next side to HHH and Flair. His character hasn't really had that much time to grow. He's good on the mic, and his in-ring skills, while not great, are improving. My reasoning for Orton adding heat to the match is that his heel character truly stands as an individual, not as "the skinny guy" when HHH and Flair are out there. At SSeries, he's on a tea representing himself. Less stubborn fans who can enjoy the product will not like him as a character, so that works. And if you want to talk about crickets, Anglesault, I suggest you watch Angle/Stasiak.....Angle/Blackman, etc...a character needs times to grow, as Angle did. It didnt hurt that Angle was also booked with great talents afterwards, like Jericho and Benoit. Angle was always booked as a comedic doofus at first, so he got clown heat after his debut. Orton is booked as a cocky asshole...it takes time to take him seriously. Even more time to take him seriously when he's always surrounded by the essential "cocky" heels, HHH and Flair. I think SSeries will be a breakthrough for him, or if nothing, a chance to see how he does away from Evolution for the night. Give the show a chance.