Hunter's Torn Quad

I haven't seen Joe vs. Punk I, but I have seen III. I liked III, but it was only ok to me. I didn't think it was as good as II, and certainly not the ***** that some have given it.

Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - ROH Joe vs. Punk II, October 16th 2004 - ****3/4 Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Satoshi Kojima - New Japan, February 20th 2005 - ***3/4 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yuji Nagata - NOAH, September 12th 2003 - **3/4 Keiji Muto vs. Hiroshi Hase - New Japan, June 6th 2001 - ***1/4 Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - NOAH, December 23rd 2000 - ***1/2 originally, ****1/2 now Yuji Nagata vs. Masahiro Chono - New Japan, October 26th 2002 - ***1/2 Of those matches, the only one I've seen fairly recently was Kojima-Tenzan and the Kobashi-Akiyama match. Kobashi-Nagata, Muto-Hase and Nagata-Chono I watched at a time when I was being incredibly hard on matches. So I'd expect to view all 3 in a better light when I rewatch them. (and you saw how much of a difference it made for Kobashi-Akiyama) **3/4 seems way off base for Kobashi vs. Nagata. Muto vs. Hase is a match that Meltzer didn't rate, because he didn't think it would be fair or something, given the style it was wrestled in. I loved that match. I gave those matches: Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - ROH Joe vs. Punk II, October 16th 2004 - ***** Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Satoshi Kojima - New Japan, February 20th 2005 - ***** Kenta Kobashi vs. Yuji Nagata - NOAH, September 12th 2003 - ****1/2, but I want to watch it again to be more fair. Keiji Muto vs. Hiroshi Hase - New Japan, June 6th 2001 - ****1/2 Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - NOAH, December 23rd 2000 - ****3/4 Yuji Nagata vs. Masahiro Chono - New Japan, October 26th 2002 - *****

What did you give the rest of the matches on my Top Ten list?

It just seemed to be missing something to put it at that level for me. Needed more of an epic feel I think, which would have been achieved had the moonsault and necklock come into play (in the case of the moonsault, being countered better or hit, in the case of the necklock, just used). I think their 7/10/04 match was heading towards ***** level into they totally shitted it all away. Oh well. I didn't think much of their 7/10/04 bout. I don't know if it was all the hype, not that I paid much attention to it, or what, but I only gave that ****. It was kind of like Kobashi vs. Misawa from '03 for me.

The first category are the kind who really benefit from going on the road with WWE, just doing house shows. Put them against top class workers for 15-minutes a night, and they'll learn a great deal, and will have improved by leaps and bounds after a year of this. The second category almost all have one thing in common; 'the look'.

I had it at ****3/4, but I feel like it really does deserve *****.

Explain the Boogeyman then. He is not ready. Vince has been told he isn't ready and has done less than 5 matches in front of people. Yet if it weren't for Boogeyman hyperextending both knees, he'd already be on TV. They ran the ads for him and everything. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They ran those spots for Boogeyman before he'd even wrestled. At all. Yes, Vince McMahon, the 'smart businessmen', ran spots to hype up a guy before he had wrestled one match in his entire life. And yes, he was another guy Cornette didn't use at all untill WWE forced his hand.

You should. I do, and I've got gigs of stuff on here. Analysis will come later, but these are my Top Ten of the matches from 2000-2005, that I remember off-hand, that I’d rate at ****1/2 or higher Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - ROH Joe vs. Punk II, October 16th 2004 Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Satoshi Kojima - New Japan, February 20th 2005 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yuji Nagata - NOAH, September 12th 2003 Keiji Muto vs. Hiroshi Hase - New Japan, June 6th 2001 Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki - NOAH, July 18th 2005 Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - NOAH, December 23rd 2000 Yuji Nagata vs. Masahiro Chono - New Japan, October 26th 2002 Chikayo Nagashima vs. Manami Toyota - AJW, October 20th 2002 Kurt Angle vs. The Rock - WWF No Mercy 2000 Kurt Angle vs. Edge - WWE Judgment Day 2002 I don't suppose you have those WWE matches on your HD? (The ones you mentioned as well as the one's Loss mentioned) Luckily I have the rest of those, bar the AJW match. Tenzan-Kojima I just watched recently. I thought there were some selling problems (mainly Kojima being stupid) that dragged it down a bit, along with the totally flat and poorly executed ending. Other than that it was just a fantastic match. Kobashi vs. Sasaki analysis will come when I get to the 7/18/05 Dome Show. I'm watching some NOAH stuff in order at the moment, and I'm at the 4/24/05 Budokan show. I'm going to rewatch the other stuff. I don't, but I can always look around for them. I haven't watched it since watching it live so I can't tell what I'd think of it now, but in the there and then it was all kinds of awesome. In case you set some stuff on VHS, you have to get Destiny on DVD in some fashion, and get the live version. It comes as close as you can get to watching it live, and it really makes the chopfest come across in almost all its glory.

You should. I do, and I've got gigs of stuff on here. Analysis will come later, but these are my Top Ten of the matches from 2000-2005, that I remember off-hand, that I’d rate at ****1/2 or higher Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - ROH Joe vs. Punk II, October 16th 2004 Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Satoshi Kojima - New Japan, February 20th 2005 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yuji Nagata - NOAH, September 12th 2003 Keiji Muto vs. Hiroshi Hase - New Japan, June 6th 2001 Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki - NOAH, July 18th 2005 Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - NOAH, December 23rd 2000 Yuji Nagata vs. Masahiro Chono - New Japan, October 26th 2002 Chikayo Nagashima vs. Manami Toyota - AJW, October 20th 2002 Kurt Angle vs. The Rock - WWF No Mercy 2000 Kurt Angle vs. Edge - WWE Judgment Day 2002

I'm glad someone is finally seeing the light. Normally, I would agree, but trying to debate with someone like Fishyswa is pointless. He's been proven wrong over and over again on the point he tried to make, and yet he still refuses to admit he was wrong. What else can you do with someone like that? One more for the good guys.

Is there anyone of value left to shoot on?

Shut the fuck up, you moron. How's that for shooting on you?

From Meltzer

He gave the Flair/Carlito rematch ***3/4

Bryan Alvarez gave these ratings: Flair v Carlito: ** Victoria and Torie v Trish and Ashley: * Show v Snitsky: 1/2* Benjamin v White: **1/2 Edge v Matt: ****1/2 Superlosers v Murdoch and Cade: ** Shawn v Masters: *** Angle v Cena: ***1/2

Ok, fun's over. Let's try and get back to the topic at hand.

If he did that, then he wouldn't post at all. Hey, I think you're on to something.

How can Hassan be blamed for going along with the terrorist angle? He got heat for turning down minor angles, so how much do you think he'd have got for turning down a major one?

Heidenreich was used on OVW tv for a while, but he almost never wrestled, and was pretty much confined to doing run-ins and talking. Cornette never used Nathan Jones or Sylvan Grenier at all, in any fashion, because he knew they were terrible. True story: a couple of years ago, WWE asked Cornette and Danny Davis to list all the talent in OVW from most ready to least ready. The last three on the list were Mark Jindrak, Orlando Jordan and Linda Miles. Guess who the next three to be called up were.

Very hard. Well, for one person at least.

But that doesn't matter. Heidenreich can do clotheslines, so basic training isn't important.

Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Suck – Part 5 The Undertaker v Hulk Hogan – Judgment Day 2002 The first major happening actually takes place when Undertaker comes out, because, thanks to new music, he gets very little response, which makes you wonder how much of Undertaker’s reaction is down to people popping for his elaborate entrance, rather than actually popping for The Undertaker himself. Hogan comes out, and slides into the ring allowing Undertaker to attack him with a bunch of stomps, which doesn’t exactly make Hogan, who is the babyface, look smart for basically opening himself up to get attacked. On a side note, I hate this spot, because it makes whoever falls for it look stupid, especially when it’s happened over and over again since almost the dawn of wrestling time. Are we meant to believe that nobody was smartened up to the fact that rolling into the ring under the ropes while your opponent is standing there leaves you open to attack ? Anyway, back to the match, and Hogan is on offense for the first few minutes, which means poor brawling, punctuated with his typically weak punches. Another side note: Why has Hogan never learned to throw a punch that at least looks like it could break an egg ? Even in his prime, Hogan’s punches, which made up the bulk of his arsenal, looked pretty lame. What made Hogan completely unable to throw a decent looking punch ? The highlight of this part of the match takes place on the floor, as when Hogan reverses an Irish whip, and Undertaker takes his knees first bump into the stairs, some fan at ringside, who sounds hammered, yells out at the top of his voice, “Holy Shit, did you see that ? Go get ‘em brother.” Somewhere in here, Undertaker briefly takes charge, and goes for his rope walk, but Hogan crotches him on the top rope, and then, after a brief discussion with Undertaker, hits a superplex. This pops the crowd, though Undertaker couldn’t have liked the landing, because he took most of the bump on his upper back, rather than it being evenly distributed over the whole of his back, so I’m guessing that might have been what their conversation was about. The next big spot of the match happened, or was mean to happen, when Undertaker ducked a clothesline, and grabbed Hogan by the throat for a chokeslam. The only problem was that Hogan didn’t appear to want to take the move, and we had yet another discussion between the two, apparently over what to do. Undertaker wound up chokeslamming Hogan, but it was probably the worst chokeslam on record, and the crowd groaned. Hogan hulked up, and hit his big boot and legdrop finisher, but Undertaker kicked out, which naturally bamboozled Hogan, who responded by grabbing his head like he had a migraine, and bulging his eyes out like someone had shoved something up his ass. After getting a two count from his leaping DDT, Undertaker got a chair from ringside, which the referee tried to stop him from using, allowing Hogan to kick it into his face and hit a legdrop. At this point, Vince hit the ringside area, distracting the referee (notice a pattern in Hogan matches?), to which Hogan responded by pulling Vince into the ring, decking him with a right hand, and legdropping him. As the referee rolled Vince out of the ring, and Hogan stood over them, Hogan tensed up like he was trying really hard to execute a bowel movement, but it turns out he was just waiting for a chair shot from Undertaker, and after Undertaker finally hit the chair shot, he then hit a chokeslam and got the pinfall to win the Undisputed Championship. After the match, Undertaker got the chair back in the ring, and held it, edge first, against Hogan’s throat, before ramming the chair into the mat, which resulted in Hogan rolling around like he was having a fit, and grabbing at his throat like he’d just eaten a five-alarm chili. The highlight of this dire affair, apart from the aforementioned drunk at ringside, was that Hogan was getting noticeable boos throughout the contest, showing that the nostalgia factor, which Jim Ross alluded to on commentary, had already begun to fade away. Rating: A DUD for the ages.

And so she says a bunch of stuff that their fanbase are going to laugh at and know is blowing smoke to a such a degree as to be nonsensical. That's what is stupid, because the majority of her fanbase are either laughing at her for being an idiot, or shaking their heads at her for being clueless.

This thread is funny for all the wrong reasons. Congratulations are in order.

New Japan would be agreeable to Lesnar going to NOAH if he was going to win, but there lies the problem, because Misawa is notorious for not wanting outsiders to go over NOAH guys unless it's to set up a NOAH guy winning in the end. Lesnar vs Kobashi would be an awesome match, because Lesnar can work like crazy, and Kobashi has the intangibles needed to make the match truly special. Lesnar vs Sasaki would be stiff as hell. Lesnar vs Nagata would be awesome too, because their amateur backgrounds would lead to some blistering exchanges on the mat. Takayama might not be wrestling ever again, and even if he was, I don't want to see him wrestle Lesnar. It might be a great match, but I don't want to see Takayama take any more punishment. I'd keep Tenzan away from Lesnar. A win over Tenzan would mean little because he doesn't mean much anymore thanks to some terrible booking, and a win for Tenzan would damage Lesnar too much because of Tenzan's lack of credibility.