RavishingRickRudo

The bottom line is, wrestling is predetermined and the storylines are fake. So? It's called suspension of disbelief. People are able to do it with television, film, and theatre. People take guys hitting tiny balls with sticks of wood seriously. It's not necessarily difficult to get people "into" things. Yet Pro Wrestling, especially on an indy level, can't do it. Is it because the fans are "smart" to it?? I don't think that's the real reason - people are able to watch movies and know everything about the actor, and still laugh and cry and be emotionally involved despite being -what would be called in wrestling- "smart" to it. Yet wrestling/ROH fans would rather chant some silly shit than watch a match intently. The ROH fans get into the matches and storylines regardless, but when all is said and done, they still appreciate the wrestlers themselves, whether they're supposed to be faces or heel. From what I have seen, ROH fans aren't nearly "into" the matches as they like to appear to be. You look and listen to crowd heat at other events - Hogan/Andre, Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Furnas/Kroffat - and its another level of interest. These fans aren't conscious of what they are doing - they are too busy experiencing it. ROH fans aren't that way (I generalize ROH fans, I am sure there are a few that I wouldn't want to punch in the liver). Chanting "thank you" to a heel CM Punk on his last night isn't a problem. I think it is. It reeks of self-importance. The real problem is when the fans blatantly ignore the face/heel dynamics during the course of a storyline and cheer the heel anyway, ala Homicide. But really, that's not just restricted to ROH fans. I seem to recall Steve Austin and The Rock being cheered by WWE fans when they were trying to heel it up. Nothing wrong with that, to me. Cheering heels because you genuinely enjoy the character is fine. It's up to the wrestler and promotion to adapt. I think a big part of the sincerity of the crowd is lost in ROH.

Isn't it implied that by cheering loudly, you are saying "thank you" or "welcome back"? You don't hear crowds chant "Thank you" at any sporting event, or after any live theatre. But then again, those crowds understand their roles at the event while ROH fans think they ARE the event. Actually, those crowds don't even know they have a role, while ROH fans are so into themselves that they think they are relevant. That ROH fans find the need to bring up all the shit they chanted at the event certainly is a problem. At least to me it is. It's fucking annoying.

But do people go to the shows FOR the feuds and storylines? Or do they go for the "good matches"?

WWE was trimming the fat and saw a reason to fire him.

"You fucked up" falls under the same category that I'm talking about. Fans have forgotten what their purpose is. ROH fans go to ROH to see good matches, not to see feuds or storylines. Actually, maybe the fans *do* know their purpose, it's ROH that has forgotten. Cause ROH doesn't really do feuds or storylines, their objective is to put on good matches. So you don't really see fans cheering or booing genuinely for their favourites, you hear them chanting in relation to the match quality. "You fucked up" is to reference a mistake and is a criticism of the match, while "Thank you" is the opposite (both equally annoying to me). I don't really think it's appropriate for the crowd to chant either, the crowd should react to the story of the match and particular spots. But where's the fun in that? You're not part of the show, then. You won't be able to get over. And if you can't leave the show thinking how great you were, then why did you go in the first place??

Mach is the comeback fighter of the year, no doubt. 2004 had him go 1-2, and so far in 2005 he's 4-0 with a big win over a top 5 LW fighter. He looked fabulous in the tournament and if he throws those leg kicks at NYE, it might be a long night for Mr. Gomi. That the division is weak doesn't mean that Cro Cop and Nog are weak. Name some fighters you think could do what Fedor did to them. I'm having a hard time coming up with names. Heavyweights are naturally less-skilled than the lighter guys, but that shouldn't be a detriment to Fedor for being so skilled. That he is so well rounded at 240lbs, that he throws 6 or 7 punch combinations, that he can move around on his back so quickly, that he is able to come up with superb gameplans should be lauded, not dismissed. The list of guys who are better on their feet than Cro Cop and better on the ground than Noguiera in all of MMA is very slim. If HW won't do it, I bet you could take anyone at 205 -the majority of whom cut down from a larger weight - and put them up against Fedor and he'd smoke em. Liddell? If Fedor could take Cro Cop and get him winded, Chuck hasn't a chance. Couture? Couture got overpowered by Ricco, Fedor would pound the stuffing out of him. Silva? If he had problems with Arona, Fedor would disgrace him.

Using Meltzers ..of the year, dates, Fedor beat Nog and Cro Cop - widely considered the 2nd and 3rd best fighters in the world. That's a pretty strong statement to make. The guy is the only undisputed champion, IMO, out there. At all the other weights there can be debate made on who is the top fighter, but there is no doubt with Fedor. That said, Shogun beat 4 Top-10 fighters in 8 months. That's unprecidented. Sure, there are questions with him and how he'd fare against a Randy Couture, a Chuck Liddell (not necessarily from me ), a Babalu, and even Wanderlei that you don't really get with Fedor, but in terms of _performance_, no one tops him. Fight of the Year: Cro Cop/Fedor, with an insane amount of honourable mentions. I need to review that match. Fedor... STANDS... with Cro Cop. This goes beyond Fedor staying in Nogs guard when it comes to Fedor's off-the-wall-but-utterly-brilliant strategy.

I'm definitely seeing it again. Fuck spoiler tags, don't read it if you don't wanna know shit. The theatre was at about 40% where we we at and it was only running in one room, but the crowd that was there really enjoyed it. I'd say about 100 people were there in total. My thoughts: The first part of the movie wasn't very good. Joss sucks at having to write a lot in a little period of time. The best example of this is comparing Serenity (the Firefly pilot) to Train Job (the series premiere). Serenity moved along at a slow, but constant, pace and gave you everything you needed to know and it never felt forced. The Train Job was exposition city. The first half hour was The Train Job, with worse special effects. My god were those effects bad. And the first 5-10 minutes had all the sound dubbed in as they were following the crew around, which was annoying as shit and completely unnatural. The characters felt like parodies of themselves, they certainly didn't have the feel they had in Firefly. This had me so down. Then something happened. I dunno when in the movie that it happened, but after Joss got all that 'splainin out of the way, he let everyone do their thang and the movie finally got started. It didn't feel like Firefly again, but it did feel like the Firefly characters that I fell in love with in a different universe. I think the moment was when Inara and Mal were talking over the video phone and everyone was listening in. It felt a lot more "relaxed" after that. Everything fell into place. Summer Glau, Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin, and Chiwetel Ejiofor were all top notch in this. Everything that Jayne said was gold, and The Operative was a great, great character. Glau and Fillion are just huge stars. But like all stars, it takes time for us to see their light. Glaus fight scenes were so sweet, and no one gets beat up like Nathan Fillion. Both were able to hit so many notes in this. I thought Book and Inara were used well, as I wasn't expecting much from them in the first place. Though, a simple "so, how much you pressin now?" from Jayne to Book would have warmed my heart. While they had some funny lines, Kaylee and Wash were just there. Simon wasn't nearly as effective as he was in Firefly. I liked the Mr Universe stuff more than I thought I would. The Reavers and Miranda were a good inclusion and the last 15 minutes were insane. Though I've known for months that Wash would die, I never saw it coming and it hit me pretty hard, especially when I think "oh god, that's WASH... and BOOK... The dinosaurs and hawaiian shirts... the strawberries and the hair... these are people I've enjoyed watching and they are gone. Fuck, that hurts. Though I probably am complaning more than I am gushing over it, I can tell you that I am feeling really fucking great right now and loved it despite its initial flaws. The movie is so damn quotable, and once it got its bearings it went from B-movie to something special.

It's the last quarter of the year, so... Fighter of the Year and Fight of the Year

Good God Damn, it's been too long since our last Big Show Weight Loss Update. Thanks Jim.

I figured he gave Lorelai the ring when episode 1 was over.

How come they haven't paired up the ALLSTARS in TJ and Paris?? Seriously, when Michel gets scared, it's sooo good. It's odd how Rory managed to go from "HOT" to "Not so much" in a single episode. TJ with a messiah complex works on so many levels.

Exactly. Plus, the difference between a 3.2 rating and a 32 rating is a fucking dot. Jeez, you people are such doom and gloomers.

Last week the cold war heated up when Lorelai and Rory collided. No doubt both women are fuming after their bitter exchange of words. Tonight, will these two former best friends reconcile, or will the battle between mother and daughter be taken to a whole new level? Find Out, TONIGHT, on Raaaa.... GILMORE GIRLS~!

.... I don't think they'd get it.

I don't think I can convey how good this show was with a simple "thumbs up". As a formality... Thumbs Up. I can't compare this show to WM 17, which is still thought to be the standard bearer for a great PPV. The reason being, WM 17 is to Bushido: The Tournament, as the WOW PPV was to WM 17. This is the new standard. I don't think anyone who hasn't seen this show can properly understand how amazing this show was. It is an absolute tragedy that most audiences in the states won't be able to see it until November. If you had the ability to see this show and didn't choose to, you made a huge mistake. Pick up the replay. If you didn't have the right cable company, find a tape of the show any way you can. I can't compare this show to any other show I've seen before it, Super J Cup 94, WM 17, Final Conflict 2003, When Worlds Collide.. they simply wouldn't do it justice. Best Match: Gomi vs. Kawajiri Sakurai vs. Pulver Gono vs. Acacio Edwards vs. Hansen Hansen vs. Sakurai Gomi vs. Azeredo These are all FOTYC's, in my opinion. And this is 2005. The same year as Uno/Hansen and Bonnar/Griffin - I'm putting these 6 matches up with those. Worst Match: Baroni/Minowa The story of Gomi/Kawajiri was perfect. You had Kawajiri, the SHOOTO champion, the guy who doesn't seek fame or fortune, the guy who just wants to be recognized as the best - which many thought he was. Against Gomi, who has been Mr. Bushido, who has been getting all the fame and recognition that many thought Kawajiri deserved. This match had Gomi taking the title of #1 fighter in the world. That he's the real deal. Kawajiri threw some hard shots at him and he took them. Gomi threw some hard shots at Kawajiri and Kawajiri took them. However,.the longer it went, the more Kawajiri shrank and the more Gomi grew. Sakurai/Pulver, had Pulver as the much smaller man trying valiantly -but ultimately fruitlessly- to beat the seemingly brand new Mach. The leg kicks by Sakurai were sick. The combinations and body shots and exchanges were tremendous. This was a constant throughout the night, and it made for exciting battles. Gono/Acacio really got the ball rolling. Superb leg kicks, almost chopping the Brazilian down. About halfway through the fight I was like "hey, this is a really freakin good fight", and they just kept going. Gono throwing double leg kicks and bodyshots and hooks with the same hand was nuts. Edwards/Hansen - debatable finish, as Edwards put together some INSANE combos, up to the point of 7 or 8 strikes put together in one flurry. He was also better on the ground than Hansen. The last 3 minutes of the fight were dominated by Hellboy (german suplexes!), so I can sorta accept the decision, but I don't necessarily agree with it. At a point in the second round I figured Hansen would have had to finish the fight in order to win it. Hansen/Sakurai - Sakurai completes his comeback beating a top ranked fighter like Hansen. I guess I am not so mad that Hansen won the Yves fight simply because this fight was so good. An Andy-hug style spinning back kick was the highlight for me, but this was all good. If I had to choose, it would either be this fight or Gomi/Kawajiri as FOTN. Gomi/Azeredo - Gomi just proves his heart here, as he clearly wasn't at 100% going into it, and Az was after his quick win. Gomi just throwing everything he has into the flurries was pure guts. Awesome, awesome, awesome. This show was not only fantastic, but it also set up 2 HUUUUGE matches in Sakurai/Gomi and Henderson/Bustamante. The first time Dan and Murilo met up, it was a huge disappointment. This time, at this level, for the title that both should have been fighting for instead of moving up in weight, greatness will happen. The story of Sakurai and Gomi, training at the same gym. Gomi being the hot new star, while Sakurai making the comeback of the year and looking incredible in the process. Sudo/Yamamoto has some competition. I also have to say that Mauro and Rutten were top notch. Letting the final moments of the last fight speak for itself was a nice touch, and they didn't ruin the fights when they go to the ground by bringing up the "boring" label. Mauro deferred to Rutten excellently at times, and Rutten was really doing some of his best work here explaining the holds and counter-holds. Ranallo got over the importance of the tournament and how really freakin good it was, and made it seem special. I also liked the pre-fight B&W UFC-style interviews. It helped get over the characters of the fighters. Now if they could get David Sahadi to do their promo vids, they'd be perfect

Best show I've ever seen. No words. Should have sent a poet.

"Deadly Death Drop" Redundant? *Edit: Hey, I just read someone else say this Redundant!*

I just assume her fragile lil feminine mind is just taking longer than our strong, massive, man-minds. Surely, such brilliance has to go recognized at some point.

Does that mean that ROH should just throw lame duck challengers at Danielson for the first four months until people will start to believe the title can switch hands? Yes. Absolutely. Because guess what? Any challenger going up against him in those first few months will be lame-duck anyways. Why waste the guys now that you can push down the road? It's not like ROH is the kind of promotion that draws on the basis of main events and superstars - the same amount of fans will be there for Dragon vs. Dick Bumfuck next month as there would be for Dragon vs. Strong. They built up Strong NOW to be a main eventer and when the time comes for him to make a serious run at Danielson and the title, he will still have that stigma of being a amina eventer that was solified tonight. That's why I say delay it. Sidetrack Strong, don't feed him to Danielson now. Let him carry the momentum of last nights win and when the time is right, when the crowd is ready for Danielson to lose, THEN put Strong in there. Storyline wise, last night's win makes Strong MUCH more of a threat to be Danielson. Should ROH not try to build up Strong in character because some of their fans [think they have] figured out that Danielson won't drop the championship in the first few months? It seems like that is what you are saying: That ROH fans don't think Strong will win Danielson due to non-storyline reasons, so they shouldn't try to build him up with storylines. That's exactly what I'm saying. "On Paper" Strong _should_ be considered a threat. But in reality -which is what matters the most- the dude isnt't. And I don't think it's just "some" of the fans, I'm pretty sure the vast majority see Dragon coming out with the win. The fans shouldn't have to force themselves to believe Strong is a contender just because the storylines say so. That's not the role of the fans, that's the role of the booker. And by positioning Strong/Dragon for next month, so early into Dragons reign, Gabe failed to do that. And worse, he's trying to overcompensate by wasting a win like last night to build Strong up. It's pointless. I don't agree with that. ROH is presenting Strong like a tough challenge to Danielson with in storylines. I don't think the fact that people have "non-kayfabe" reasons for seeing him as a non-challenge should present how they present him in-character. You can't mix storyline expectations (Strong convincingly won Survival of the Fittest and has had some other big matches recently, so he could very well give Danielson a run for his money) with "non-kayfabe" expectations (Danielson just won the title and after two "short" title reigns, he will probably hold it for at least a few months). You are wrong. This is what the WWE does, they just did this with Jericho last month. Not only can you mix storyline expectations with real expectations, but you should -as a booker- mix them. Especially in this case. If they have a guy who the fans don't think will beat the champ, and you want them to believe it, but there is no way at this point in time that they'll buy it, then you save it until they're ready to buy it. You can't just force things on the fans that they don't accept. You write off "non-kayfabe" as if it doesn't exist or matter. What the fans think - no matter why they think it - matters most. If the fans don't buy that Strong has a chance to beat Dragon, then that's it - they don't buy it, it doesn't work. You can throw all the "buts" and "shoulds" and "in storyline terms", but if the fans aren't buying it, they aren't buying it, and it's your fault for trying to sell them it. No....it DID do something for Strong. This is what you either don't get or won't allow yourself to get. Strong going over a bunch of top guys last night cements him as one of the top guys in ROH. It accomplished moving Strong from a mid carder being pushed to one of the legit top guys in ROH. In other words, it solidified him as a guy who can main event shows now. It isn't that hard of a concept. But he challenged Dragon. So it wasn't about being pushed as a "top guy", it was being pushed as legit challenger for the title. And in building up a challenger for the title, it didn't erase the notion that he won't beat Dragon. When you build a challenger, you either build the underdog -which this is not-, or you build a guy who is the odds-on-favourite, or you at the very least build a "I have no idea what is going to happen, who is going to win?" scenario. This did none of that, because at the end of the day, Strong won't beat Dragon. So it was a fruitless win in that -the main- regard. You're problem is you are taking the idea that this win doesn't make it any more believable that Strong will beat Danielson and deciding that since it didn't accomplish that, it was worthless. You need to look at the things it did accomplish and what it was meant to accomplish. It was meant to accomplish Strong as a legit contender for the title, no? Strong didn't say "I'm a top guy now!!" after the match, he challenged Dragon. The intent was to build a challenger for Dragon. At the end of the day, a wrestler needs to have some wins over top caliber guys to be considered a top caliber wrestler himself. Would you disagree with that? Strong can't be portrayed as a top guy ("really, really good") without actually having some victories over other top guys. So the answer is "no"....I do not think he could be booked as a top guy just under Danielson without having some big wins under his belt. Let's go back to what you wrote: "booked as a guy who is really, really good but wasn't able to beat Danielson " That can't be accomplished by a competitive match? Like I already said, you are stuck on the win not accomplishing (in your opinion) what YOU think it should have accomplished without looking at what it DID accomplish. The win theoretically makes him a top/main event wrestler in ROH. The win benefitted him a lot then. THEORETICALLY?! Oh god. And with that you've crossed the line into trolling. And this is... ? I had to re-read what I wrote because I was pretty sure what I did write didn't implicated any sort of "glass ceiling". It was right. The best I can tell is you are saying that Strong not beating Danielson on his first try would mean that there is a "glass ceiling" in ROH. Is that right? Otherwise, I have no idea what you are talking about. Is Strong going to beat Dragon, despite being -theoretically- presented as a top contender? No? Why? No room for advancement, despite being presented as such, seems like a glass ceiling to me. If that is what you are saying, it is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this board. Wrestlers never being pushed to that next level (the main events) and sticking there is what constitutes a glass ceiling. A wrestler being pushed to the top of the cards, losing one match to the champ, and still being pushed as a top guy (assuming that is what happens), is hardly a glass ceiling. I don't really care what happens after the match. My basis of reasoning is soley on last nights show, and next months show and that last nights show did nothing to benefit next months show or the guys competing in it thus making it pointless.

Sahadi is one of wrestlings greastest assets. Those videos were perfect.

Martin Sheen in Hot Shots Part Deux "I LOVED YOU IN WALL STREET!" *thumbs up*

I am not getting this. So a promotion shouldn't put one guy over a bunch of other top guys unless he is going to win the championship? Why? It's not winning the championship that matters, it's being -in the peoples eyes- a legitimate contender for the title, that matters. Did Strong become any more of a legitimate contender after winning this match, to where people actually believe he'll go over Dragon when they wrestle? Didn't think so. A promotion shouldn't put one guy over a bunch of other top guys unless it actually does something for that one guy - this didn't. Why can't Roderick Strong be booked as a guy who is really, really good but wasn't able to beat Danielson in their one singles bout? Can't he be booked like that without going over all those guys? Completely unnecessary booking. Sloppy, even. It would be one thing if they had Strong go over four guys then jobbed him out to everyone or had him lose to a relative mid carder. However, having him lose to the champion, in a match that will most likely be wrestled in the "either guy could have won" fashion, hardly makes his win pointless. The _match_ could have been like that anyways. The _point_ is that every knows Dragon will win, so no one will actually BELIEVE Strong has a chance. You'd think a win like the one last night would have benefitted the guy, but it doesn't. So what was the point? All losing to Danielson does is say that Roderick isn't the champion. It does nothing to state that he isn't ONE of the top guys right under Danielson or even that he couldn't beat Danielson on any other night. The end-result doesn't even matter, it's _going into the match_ believing that Strong is not only "one of the top guys" it's believing that he CAN beat Dragon. When I said "Will Strong beat Dragon?" I am betting there was a uniform answer of "no". He's going into the match having already lost it. You are acting as if the heirarchy in ROH (or any wrestling promotion) is one dimensional. As if there is the champion and then everyone else. That is not the case. Roderick Strong can beat four guys, position himself as one of the top 5 wrestlers in the promoion and then lose to the champ without it being pointless. Tonight's win will have still cemented him as a top 5 guy regardless of whether he beats Danielson. If Strong ends up back in the midcards losing to a bunch of random midcarders, then your point might be valid. Until then, it is not. Hey, glass ceilings are cool by me if they're cool by you, bro... As an aside, I should probably mention that, if I read the results right (and I think I did), one of Strong's eliminations came with the help of Daniels (Daniels hit the moonsault on Joe, Strong hit Daniels with a back breaker, and then pinned Joe), one after Aries hit Lethal with the Brainbuster, and then two on his own (vs. Cabana and Aries). It isn't like he completely squashed four of their top guys or anything. You are reaching here. Hey, my reaction was similar to a lot of those who read it - in particular HTQ and KNK - are they reaching too? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't take this as a loaded question, it's just something I've been wondering about because -to me- this is something that has been a bit of a pattern throughout ROH history, or at least from what I have observed from ROH. Would it be safe to consider Strong as the least likely winner going into that match, at least on paper? Would it be safe to say that ROH has a track record of having the least likely guys end up winning various gimmick matches/tournaments/hoorahs? Not always, but more than most companies would?

"LoMonico and Hughes" would be a better alternative to everything rumoured so far. Cept for the Mudley Boyz. That still owns. Maybe the Studley Boyz. Maybe the Jim Cuddy Boyz, based on the lead singer from Canadian Country Band Blue Rodeo. Perhaps the Spudley Boyz, with a whole Potato Schtick goin... no?