RavishingRickRudo

Fuck, this "Benoit's dogging it" myth is still floating around?

Benoit's the most fluid wrestler in the WWE - his movements are so smooth. Add in the stiffness and he's the only guy right now who I enjoy watching. Flair is just disturbing to watch.

Because they have Benoit... ... I thought that was already stated?

That's right. Maybe if he landed on someone. I forgot to mention innovating...

You seem way to obsessed with this and seem to have some sort of strong dislike to ROH that rivals that strong like that ROH fans have for the product Obsessed? How? I posted my distain for the ROH fans in one thread, and how Dragon/London wasn't MOTY in another... boy, I sure am obsessed. 2 whole threads dedica - no wait, a dozen posts maybe? IN ALL? Hardly a threads worth... I wanted to like ROH. I heard the hype, saw a few choice matches on-line, bought a tape.. the tape was supposed to be one of their best shows. I couldn't stand what I was seeing. If I wanted Japanese Wrestling, I'd buy Japanese wrestling... not some imitation (oops "innovation")... I dunno, maybe I'm too "old school" but I don't want business exposing announcers and crowds surrounding my wrestling.... and I don't want my wrestling to be two guys pretending to be Misawa. "Thank you both," Thank you for what? Oh, for putting on an athletic contest full of flashy moves and high workrate~? They sure did "work" that crowd. I'm glad the ROH audience was couteous enough to not only clap for them, but to explain that clapping meant appreciation... I fail to see where the crowd trying to get themselves over is a bad thing. It doesn't matter why they're chearing as long as they're there and making some noise. Ok, and I can't find it annoying-as-hell when fans are more interested in chanting than watching the match unfold?

I can't believe people see "the total package" in people who can't do high flying...

Both shows suck, but only one show has Benoit. He's basically the only reason I am watching the WWE right now.

Why are you shocked - I'm pretty sure I've stated my Hogan Mark tendancies on this board a few times.... I don't see a lot of style differences with the "big" promotions in Japan. I found the transition quite easily into All Japan style since the pacing was similar to Hogans matches and the slow build wasn't an issue. Maybe promotions like Toryumon and Mich Pro where its more Lucha-based, but even then that's not a huge leap as say, Lucha Libre is. If you want a reference, why don't you just say "who do you like in the WWE or WCW?"

If I had to watch Flair over-and-over-and-over I'd end up shooting myself in the head by match 13... The indy guys are more ~fun~ to watch, than "better". I dug AJ vs. Ki from Zero-One a ton.

I don't know why wrestlers have to be broken up into "American" and "Japanese" since the Japanese style has been heavily influenced by the American, and vice-versa. Only in non-traditional promotions like UWF-i or Pancrase, I can see the issue being made, since they have different rules and standards for a match.

I did not say that Hogan is/was a better wrestler than Flair - it just means that I would watch a Hogan match before a Flair match. I dig Hogan's matches.

That's cause I like Hogan more than Flair (maybe you can see why I hate Flair marks now )

STOP IT!! *covers ears and cries* STAAAAHAAAAHAAAAPITT!

I don't dislike Flair. Infact, I like Flair very much. I just hate Flair Marks who think he is the unquestioned lordgod of the ring when I wouldn't even put him in my top 10. If I had a choice to watch a flair match, or a match of the following, I would pick the following without a second thought... -Benoit -Guerrero -Misawa -Kawada -Kobashi -Jumbo -Hansen -Hogan -Vader -Takada -Lyger -Hart -Austin ah hell, lets throw some indy guys in there too.. -American Dragon -Low Ki -AJ Styles

I've seen better.

Because *the crowd* is *competing* with *each other* for no reason (I'd understand if they had been doing it during a spot where Dragon and London were trading holds and the crowd support dictated the pace of the match - but it didn't). When they started doing that, when they started trading chants at each other, it stopped being about the match and started being about *them*

WildPeg, that's silly, ROH fans are the best fans in the world... just ask them. RRR: Waiting for a "We're the best" "We're the best" "We're the best" chant. And hopefully there will be other people in the arena/gym that will add "Fans in the World" to help fill in the blank for all those who can't figure it out... cause you know, they're polite...

And of course, you can't be biased by your participation in the aforementioned chant... right? In 2001 when Austin was in his "what" phase, and Kurt Angle was getting his "You suck" chant during his entrance - it eventually evolved into "You Suck - WHAT" "You Suck - What"... chants evolve, it's just a matter of self-interested fans and time. And it was trading chants - if they actually did care about supporting the wrestler there would have been overlap - it would have sounded like "lets go longran" or "Lets go Dradon" where eventually the louder side wins... You know, Like the Ortiz/Couture fight, or Rock Hogan...oh, but I forgot, those ROH fans are more courteous than those other fans and politely let each other have their turn for no reason other than supporting their wrestler-of-choice.

It's the "taking turns" part that really does it. I can't read minds, but I know what I see and hear. I've heard legitimate emotion being poured into a chant, with a legitimate reason behind it. I don't see this in that match with those fans.

I wasn't a big fan of "Billy". I thought the character was fascinating and had a really ominous look that juxtaposed well with Angels and they built him up really well in the eps. where Angel had to fight Skip and the prison of fire and whatnot (see, not good with eps names) ... and then he's in it for a single eps? Dats bullshit. Though it did have a "serious issue" involved, I just didn't think it just wasnt satisfying.

Don't worry, I suck at eps. titles too. http://www.tvtome.com/Angel/ I tend to reference this site for help.

So you're calling the ROH fans courteous? Oh my... Hey Jeff Hardy... what do you think of the ROH fans? Wrestling is fake yet the fans still present real emotions in a lot of instances - that ROH match isn't one of them. Hogan vs. The Rock WM18, there were people chanting for Rocky, they just happened to get drowned out by the Hogan fans - there was no "taking turns" so each side could "get over".

You'll have all the arc in the world for Season 2, 3 and 4 - so quitcherbitchin Joss is the Arc-Angel ( ) of building long-term storylines. (I'm so baaaad)

It's about passion. If you're passionate about something why would you wait for someone to get finished? Why would you take turns? I dunno bout the arguments you've been in, but the ones I've been in and seen involve people trying to talk OVER the other person. The emotions in Tito/Randy were REAL, you could feel it. And it reflected the match and the personalities in the match. I got goosebumps from that, I didn't get anything from Dragon/London.

YOUR SUPERCARD Fight and Fighter of the day ARE: Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic Name: Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Noguiera Team: Brazilian Top Team Height/Weight: 6'3 / 231 lbs. MMA Record: 20-2-1 Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu From Brazil Last Fight: vs. Ricco Rodriguez (Win *Decision* - PrideFC: Total Elimination 2003) Notable Fight: vs. Heath Herring (Win *Decision* - Pride 17: Championship Chaos) vs. Name: Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic Team: Cro Cop Squad Gym Height/Weight: 6'2 / 217lbs. MMA Record: 7-0-2 Style: Kickboxing From:Croatia Last Fight: vs. Dos Caras (Win *KO* - PrideFC: Bushido) Notable Fight: vs. Heath Herring (Win *TKO* - Pride 26: Bad to the Bone) Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic made a name for himself in the world of combat sports by compiling a record 17-7 in K-1. Among those losses are likes of Ernesto Hoost (3 times), Andy Hug, Mike Bernardo, and Michael McDonald. Not too shabby. On the winning side of that coin, he's defeated Peter Aerts, Bob Sapp, Mark Hunt and Remy Bonjasky, amongst others. Alas, K-1 is not MMA. But Cro Cop did develop an amazingly powerful striking game while fighting for K-1 and that has carried over into his MMA style. Unlike some of his K-1 counterparts, Cro Cop has been able not only to compete, but succeed in MMA, as his record of 7-0-2 will attest to. A big part of this success can be credited to the fact that he has not relied solely on his striking skills to get him by in MMA competition. Yes, all of his wins have come by KO, TKO, or decision, but that's not completely attributable to his striking. Cro Cop has been training specifically for MMA for a long time. We haven't seen much of him on his back, but we have witnessed his ability to sprawl and keep the fight standing, as well as his ability to get back up to his feet when the fight does go to the ground. His dedication to becoming a true mixed martial artist has led Cro Cop to be considered one of the top five, if not top three, heavyweight fighters in the world by most. Of course he had a head start with his K-1 career and earlier full contact kickboxing successes, but to rise to the top of the MMA world in just two short years is nothing if not amazing. Strengths: Striking, striking, striking. What else can you say? Cro Cop is one of, if not the, most feared striker in the world of mixed martial arts. He throws a high kick to the head that would drop an elephant (oh wait, he nailed Sapp with a punch). Yes, his hands are pretty solid as well. Weaknesses: Hmmm.... Well, the big unknown is Cro Cop's ground game. He's got a good sprawl and can pound guys, but we haven't seen much of him on his back. It may or may not be a weakness, but, at this point, it is a question mark. What This Fight Means: For one, this fight would help solidify Cro Cop's recent ascension to MMA's top five rankings. Also, this fight is for the Pride Interim Heavyweight Title guaranteeing the winner a shot at Fedor Emelianenko once he is healthy enough to defend his heavyweight title. More than that, this is a true test of where Cro Cop stands among the world's best heavyweight fighters. Though he defeated the legendary Sakuraba, Sak is a middleweight at best. Heath Herring has been on a bit of a downturn this past year and Igor Vovchanchyn is at the end of his amazing career. Make no mistake, these are all still big wins for Cro Cop, but to prove that he is truly one of the best heavyweights in the world, he has to defeat some of the other top ten heavyweights around. Nogueira fits that bill nicely. ------------------- It wouldn’t be far into his life before Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira faced adversity. When he was just 10 years old, the young Nogueira was run over by a truck which damaged his liver and broke his ribs and leg. As a result, he spent 4 days in a coma and it took nearly a year in the hospital to recover from the injuries. On the advice of his doctor, Nogueira then restarted training in Judo which he had done previously for 3 years starting at the age of 5. When he was a teenager, he started to train in boxing and has been doing so ever since. Believe it or not, he did not start training in Brazilian Jiujitsu, which he is known for, until 1995. He was a quick study in jiujitsu and started winning competitions even as a white belt. He now is a Black Belt in both Judo and BJJ and trains under Mario Sperry and Murilo Bustamante at Brazilian Top Team. He had his first MMA fight in 1999, but didn’t really make a name for himself in the sport until he submitted Mark Coleman at Pride 16. That fight put him on the map and made him a star in Japan. From there, he defeated Heath Herring to become Pride’s first heavyweight champion and solidified his dominance in the sport by submitting the man-mountain, 375-pound Bob Sapp. Just when Nogueira was seeming invincible, along came Fedor Emelianenko, dominating him for 20 minutes en route to a decision win at Pride 25. Nogueira bounced back, sort of, with a controversial decision win over Ricco Rodriguez back in August of this year. He now will square off with Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic in a fight that, if he wins, would vault him back to the top of the heavyweight division. Strengths: Great submission fighter with improving stand up skills. Constantly moves from submission to submission keeping opponent on the defensive. Weaknesses: Stand up can be exposed against a strong striker. Has a tendency to fight from his back which can be exposed by a strong ground and pound fighter like Fedor Emelianenko. What This Fight Means: Minotauro is coming off a huge, if controversial, victory over Ricco Rodriguez. Defeating top ranked contender Mirko Cro Cop will not only give him the PRIDE interim title, but will more importantly give him an opportunity to gain redemption against current champion -------------- -Credit: MMAWeekly