Hawk 34

Kane's been stuck on RAW forever and he could give ECW a boost as I'd want him to avoid Smackdown in fear of another UT program.

Drop it, Quasar. You're bombing. Leave the comedy attempts to Rando.

Religious wacko of the first order. Voted "Most likely to go Koresh" for the past 4 or 5 years probably. He basically thinks everyone who doesn't agree with him is a homosexual and is bound to burn in Hell. Also, a brilliant self promoter. WWE could learn a lesson or two.

Just for once, I want the fucking blue bars back.

Probably next week on the season premiere. That's great they are FINALLY changing the damn song but let's see change in stage and production value.

Depends on how stuffed they are after the Kurt Warner sampler.

Just a quick question relating to what you just said from Meltzer, what was the basis of using Montreal in the Owen Hart case?

If Hayes was simply working on building promos, I'd be all for it. That being said, why did they change it? SD had been good lately, so whomever (I thought Lagana or Rhodes) shouldn't be moved anyways.

Since you aren't aware of the wrestlers, you should know that Nigel, Colt and Danielson are major mat wrestlers.

I'm really pissed that Cleveland not going for a lousy FG at the end of the game and just killed the clock instead.

Doubtful. McMahon, had a hard on for Harry for years and kept tabs on him throughout his development before he ever signed with them. The 2nd generation aspect will be a crucial part of his inital push he'll get.

Once again, there is a difference between doing a 60 minute draw with a purpose and doing it for the sake of doing it and ROH isn’t doing it for the sake of doing. This isn’t Chris Hero and his masturbatory marathon matches. I covered why all three of the matches worked out despite the fact all three of them went 60. None of the matches were comparable, all had a different objective. Draw #1-Put over the equality between Dragon and Joe. No different then Punk and Joe in 2004. A ferocious, well worked match that served to put each man over and to extend a money program. That’s logical booking right there. Draw #2 Nigel McGuiness won the 1st match via count-out, in order to preserve his championship reign. It was presented that Danielson had been outsmarted here, something he wasn’t used to. Danielson realized he was heading that direction in the re-match, so he used the “under the ring” ploy to capitalize and score a flash pin. The third match was a decisive match to unify the two singles titles but it was emphasized that Danielson had never came that close to losing throughout his title reign. This time, neither used nefarious means to win. They booked the 4th match to be a 2/3 fall match and that match had Danielson playing defense and pushing for the draw. He got that and used the advantages this time (like Nigel did in the first encounter) Draw #3 Danielson defeated Cabana in 6 minutes in April (after spending 6 months doing brawls with Homicide and CZW) This played an important part in the final title shot he would receive. Cabana returned the favor and stole a fall from Danielson very early in the match. Cabana knew that he really can’t beat Danielson under normal circumstances so he had to pull a trick from Danielson’s own playbook and force the issue of a draw and knowing the title would change via the one fall rule, he worked towards it. Danielson had to chase and struggle. He spent the whole time trying to out-wrestle Cabana, but after so many title defenses and a 60 minute draw the previous night, he really was running on fumes. He had to cheat to win, something he felt he wouldn’t need to do with Colt Cabana. That’s three different matches all worked completely differently. It’s like complaining that a promotion worked 3 straight cage matches in a month against 3 different people and they all ended with the same guy hitting the floor first with the escape finish. Does that automatically deject the importance of the match? No. That’s what those draws were about. 3 challengers who keep getting the champion on the ropes but the champ got away by some means. It puts over the champion as a fighter and his willingness to win, puts over the ability of two men many didn’t think could hang with the champion (this series with Danielson made Nigel McGuiness a SUPERSTAR main event caliber name for ROH) and re-established Cabana’s ability after months of being a glorified brawler and tag team partner for hire. That’s why these matches worked so well, because they all served a greater purpose then just putting over a champion's endurance and doing 60 minute draws for the sake of doing 60 minute draws. It’s not weak booking, its called building your talent and getting them over. It’s a foreign concept in this day and age but ROH pulls it off in this particular instance. The part about it burning out the fan-base is ludicrous because the heart of their core fan base that makes ROH a profitable promotion eats up work-rate and as long as they deliver the quality, they'll buy it. The reason some people are complaining is because, as I alluded earlier, it’s the nature of the wrestling business and the progression of the general fan base to be much more apathetic towards something that requires lengthy viewing. ROH is built as a bridge from the days of NWA with the constant touring in specific cities, the longer matches and more wrestling based approach with the modern adaptation of the internet, DVD sales and implemented storylines more along the lines of early ECW. That’s how its marketed to its fan base and it succeeds in that effort.

AL MVP 1. Derek Jeter 2. Travis Hafner 3. Joe Mauer 4. Johan Santana 5. David Ortiz 6. Justin Morneau 7. Frank Thomas 8. Raul Ibanez 9. Grady Sizemore 10. Carlos Guillen NL MVP 1. Albert Pujols 2. Miguel Cabrera 3. Carlos Beltran 4. Ryan Howard 5. Lance Berkman 6. Alfonso Soriano 7. Brandon Webb 8. Chase Utlley 9. David Wright 10. Jose Reyes AL Cy Young 1. Johan Santana 2. Roy Halladay 3. Justin Verlander NL Cy Young 1. Brandon Webb 2. Roy Oswalt 3. Bronson Arroyo L Manager of the Year 1. Jim Leyland 2. Ron Gardenhire 3. Joe Torre NL Manager Of The Year 1. Joe Giradi 2. Willie Randolph 3. Jerry Narron AL Rookie of the Year 1. Justin Verlander 2. Jared Weaver 3. Jonathon Papelbon NL Rookie of the Year 1. Dan Uggla 2. Ryan Zimmerman 3. Hanley Ramirez

How can you make that statement after 1 week. Plus Heroes was the Premier, tough to judge because of that/ Two episodes. Heroes had a huge rating and that dropped for Studio 60. There's something to be said about a drop off like that.

That's cool and you'd have to get the actual content and see why it works so well because it isn't broadway matches done for the sake of it. That's exactly what you're getting here, VERY GOOD wrestlers putting on fantastic matches getting fans involved. The instance of using three of those finishes in six week period is to put over Danielson along with Joe, Nigel (especially Nigel) and Cabana by showcasing three very different approaches to 60 minute matches. Prior to this series, ROH had only done three broadway matches (the first two installments of Joe/Punk and Punk/Daniels). That's three guys primarily involved in these matches with 4 1/2 year history with some amazing workers that have walked through those curtains. Considering how many people worked 60 minutes with Race anf Flair in the 80's, it's sort of refreshing to see that limited number of people going 60 in ROH. The worse offense of "broadway" was Shane Douglas and Tully Blanchard. That was booking for the sake of going broadway.

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws. Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit. Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches. People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even). It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it. I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution. So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit. It's hardly the same match and finish. Danielson/Joe was them going at it non-stop in a intense battle that Joe simply ran out of time (similar to Punk for WTC and JvP2) and couldn't score the victory. The next two were 2/3 falls. Danielson/Nigel, was Danielson knowing that no one takes him to the limit like Nigel does. So he was trying for the draw after Nigel took the second fall. He knew that he needed cheap tactics to win the 2nd match and escaped with a victory by the skin of his teeth for the 3rd match. So he kept working the clock and he scored the win. Colt/Danielson, was a completely different match. It was pushed throughout that weekend that if there was a draw and there was only one fall, the winner of that fall gets the victory. Guess what happened? Colt got a flash victory early in the match. (which was a throwback to their first match in April where Danielson won in just 6 minutes). That meant Danielson couldn't play on the defensive side anymore. He NEEDED to pin/submit Cabana before time ran out. What happened? He takes a legitimate shoulder injury. Instead of being in control, Danielson was scrambling to score a victory and he resorted to cheating with just 30 seconds to go to steal a quick fall and that meant time expired. Danielson, chased Cabana(in his hometown) for 45 minutes trying to score the tie and once he realized he wasn't going to get it done the honorable way, he cheats and escapes with the title. - The only thing that was identical was the result "Bryan Danielson wins a 60 minute draw" but the match and the road followed throughout the matches were completely different. So it was used for gimmick matches. Ok that works. I thought they just had 3 regular matches do a broadway finish. Joe/Danielson, wasn't a gimmick. However, the crowd was clued in that it would be a draw (just like the fans in Chicago were aware that JvP2 was going broadway) and yet the crowd still eats it up and forgets the logical nature that it was heading towards, which is a tremendous testament to each men's ability to play the crowd. I'll take Danielson's 60 minute draws over Hart and HHH's forced iron-man matches where the match isn't built until the final segment. A pre-set 60 minute match rarely works because you can't convince a crowd to care until the final segment. ROH has really done a great job of making the 60 minute draws mean something. In the NWA days, they were so common place that the fans just accepted it. ROH blends the ability of utilizing that NWA mind-set but works it enough that they still seem special and stand out. They have also done a good job of making certain matches appear to be an obvious broad-way match only to cut it off at the 56 minute mark (Strong/Danielson III, for example). You seem to treat the notion of a 60 minute draw as weak booking where in the instance of Danielson's reign, it's been beautifully crafted. My only real gripe with Danielson's reign is that he constantly defends the title and he has now went through repeat challengers Strong-4 shots. Nigel-4 shots. Cabana-3 shots. Delirious-3 shots. Joe-2 shots (but three matches) He has also worked 2 matches per night on multiple occasions throughout his reign and it's nearing the edge of overkill but he has managed to be so effective that you can neglect that aspect.

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws. Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit. Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches. People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even). It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it. I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution. So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit. It's hardly the same match and finish. Danielson/Joe was them going at it non-stop in a intense battle that Joe simply ran out of time (similar to Punk for WTC and JvP2) and couldn't score the victory. The next two were 2/3 falls. Danielson/Nigel, was Danielson knowing that no one takes him to the limit like Nigel does. So he was trying for the draw after Nigel took the second fall. He knew that he needed cheap tactics to win the 2nd match and escaped with a victory by the skin of his teeth for the 3rd match. So he kept working the clock and he scored the win. Colt/Danielson, was a completely different match. It was pushed throughout that weekend that if there was a draw and there was only one fall, the winner of that fall gets the victory. Guess what happened? Colt got a flash victory early in the match. (which was a throwback to their first match in April where Danielson won in just 6 minutes). That meant Danielson couldn't play on the defensive side anymore. He NEEDED to pin/submit Cabana before time ran out. What happened? He takes a legitimate shoulder injury. Instead of being in control, Danielson was scrambling to score a victory and he resorted to cheating with just 30 seconds to go to steal a quick fall and that meant time expired. Danielson, chased Cabana(in his hometown) for 45 minutes trying to score the tie and once he realized he wasn't going to get it done the honorable way, he cheats and escapes with the title. - The only thing that was identical was the result "Bryan Danielson wins a 60 minute draw" but the match and the road followed throughout the matches were completely different.

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws. Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit. Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches. People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even). It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it. I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

Also, I don't think the Raiders are going 0-16. No one goes 0-16. They'll win some ugly turnover-filled game 13-10, possibly even against some playoff contender's second string in the closing weeks of the year. Next week (49ers) and week 13 (Texans) are probably the most logical dates for Oakland to secure that first (and likely, only) victory but I'm sensing they'll play inspired football and catch a lucky break and beat rival Denver in week 10. Looking at Tennessee, aside from their games with Houston, none of them scream WIN except, maybe New England (resting its players) in week 17. TB has a rough schedule and aside from Cleveland in week 16, none of them really looks like a sure-thing for the Bucs.

I thought they were being called "Teacher's Pets". That is a name that probably won't work in the long run but it's not as if WWE will keep these two together for longer then another year at the most.

ESPN is already talking that we'll be seeing a rematch of SBXX.

How did you get into the butcher game? I'm planning on quitting my job tomorrow, so I'm curious. Aren't you teaching? Yeah, but I absolutely hate it. Didn't you realize you hated it when you did student-teaching?

It's like Barkley but without the intelligent analysis, humor and honesty. Equal doughnut consumption, however.

How much would it cost the NFL to scrape "Reggie Bush" off the inscription?

Yeah, and how is this different then FOX's outrageous annual claim to having "the best NFL coverage" despite shitty announcers, horrible gimmicky graphics and a crap filled pre-game show? FNIA is a well-produced show, you have to admit. I coucur, see the "coverage" thread. It's not exactly a peculiar statement to make about your own product, which I thought was UTSU's objective. Especially a show that is well produced despite Bettis doing a poor Charles Barkley impression.