Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 No. Comedy gimmicks aren't required to put on great matches. World Champions are. When Booker gets a world title push the caliber Lesnar has, come back and argue with me. Why push a comedy wrestler in his late 30s when they can push the Next Big Thing? I agree with vandelay...legitimacy goes a long way in pro wrestling.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 What makes Lesnar so special? His ringwork isn't outstanding, he hasn't gotten over on his own..he's big, and white, and grunts, and does the Hampster Dance..and throws a mean shoulderblock. Yeah, that's sure qualifications for giving a guy a World Championship. The problem is, with the exception of the F5..it's all stuff we've seen before. With every Hoss. Repeatedly. It's nothing new, and his isn't the only one that looks convincing. He's vanilla.
Guest art_vandelay Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 ..and as I said many posts up the page..has Booker been given anything resembling a world title push? No. Does it matter if his matches aren't stellar if he's in a comedy gimmick? No. Comedy gimmicks aren't required to put on great matches. World Champions are. When Booker gets a world title push the caliber Lesnar has, come back and argue with me. Well, I certainly don't think any of Lesnar's recent matches have been "bad" by any means. Even his match with Rikishi was better than the usual Rikishi-fare. Put him in the ring with the Benoits and Angles, then you'll see for sure.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 It doesn't have to be extensive (Flair, Hart) But it has to be GOOD. And since it's no longer 1987 (By my count) The Bear Hug, shoulder blocks and clotheslines can be elininated. Why don't you let a 6-something foot tall, 300+ lbs. man ram his shoulder into your gut 5 times and put you in a bearhug before you tell me that. Moves don't have to be flashy, they just need to look CONVINCING. And Brock Lesnar shoulder blocking a guy is definately more convincing than a Stone Cold Stunner. If Brock had shitty-looking offence, then I'd agree, but he doesn't. Every move the guy does looks BRUTAL. I don't care if he isn't a technical wizard, he just has to make it look like he kick a guy's ass. So give Albert the God Push. Or Mark henry. Hell, dig up Mabel. They can all pound on someone. Should they get the belt?
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 He's strong as a bull, he performs awesome feats of strength that *impress* and *entertain* the fans, he's agile, he's got good wind despite what the Internet says, he's got a killer look, he's intense, he works hard, he's coming along at a very rapid pace for a guy who's only been in the big leagues for 6 months, he knows how to mat wrestle if he *needs* to, he can pull off a Shooting Star Press at 6'4", 292 lbs. if he *needs* to, he's got a great high-impact/power moveset...need I go on? No. Key words have been starred.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 ..and as I said many posts up the page..has Booker been given anything resembling a world title push? No. Does it matter if his matches aren't stellar if he's in a comedy gimmick? No. Comedy gimmicks aren't required to put on great matches. World Champions are. When Booker gets a world title push the caliber Lesnar has, come back and argue with me. Well, I certainly don't think any of Lesnar's recent matches have been "bad" by any means. Nothing "good" either. Yet he still gets the belt.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Albert and Mark Henry don't look convincing. They look fat, lazy, and hairy.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 He's strong as a bull, he performs awesome feats of strength that *impress* and *entertain* the fans, he's agile, he's got good wind despite what the Internet says, he's got a killer look, he's intense, he works hard, he's coming along at a very rapid pace for a guy who's only been in the big leagues for 6 months, he knows how to mat wrestle if he *needs* to, he can pull off a Shooting Star Press at 6'4", 292 lbs. if he *needs* to, he's got a great high-impact/power moveset...need I go on? No. Key words have been starred. Holy Christ, that is eerily Big Show-esque. As for good wind. Look at him in that confrontation with Angle after he LIFTED A GUY UP. He is dying.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Feats of Strength. Been done. Repeatedly. Entertain? *chirp, chirp, chirp*. The NYC crowds were an exception, but they don't wrestle all the time in NYC. Isn't it just a coincidence that they moved him to Canned Heat Heaven? Has he shown that he can mat wrestle? Has he pulled a Shooting Star Press on WWE tv? Neither. Having an "intense" look dosen't really stand him out from the crowd of others that have the same thing.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 And look at Angle at WrestleMania X-7 after mat wrestling Benoit. That's one gassed mofo.
Guest art_vandelay Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Alright, well if Brock Lesnar was the first guy to blankly stare at his hand, then spin on his head for no apparent reason in the middle of his matches and building that up as the "The Most Electrifying Move in Sports Entertainment" then he'd be just as over as Book. . Then you should give him the title. But he didn't, and he isn't, so you shouldn't. That MEANS it's traditionally tougher to build a guy up as a legitimate contender rather than a comedy figure. Part of the build as a legitimate contender is THE WRESTLER BREAKING THROUGH THE RANKS AND CAPTURING THE TITLE WITH LITTLE EFFORT. BTW, comedy figures don't win titles.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Isn't it just a coincidence that they moved him to Canned Heat Heaven? Nothing I've heard has lead me to believe that Brock's heat is canned. It doesn't sound canned at all, and all of the house show reports are telling us that Brock is getting mega-heat. So until you can *prove* that the heat is canned...thank you, please try again.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 He didn't break through the ranks at all! He was simply handed the world title! He didn't have to "struggle through" the Euro and IC belts. He just got shoved up to the top.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 He didn't need to struggle. He was ready. He proved that at SummerSlam when he and Rock tore the f'n house down. Being ready doesn't mean having ***** classics every night. For the most part, the fans have to buy you as champ. And the fans buy Brock.
Guest art_vandelay Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 It doesn't have to be extensive (Flair, Hart) But it has to be GOOD. And since it's no longer 1987 (By my count) The Bear Hug, shoulder blocks and clotheslines can be elininated. Why don't you let a 6-something foot tall, 300+ lbs. man ram his shoulder into your gut 5 times and put you in a bearhug before you tell me that. Moves don't have to be flashy, they just need to look CONVINCING. And Brock Lesnar shoulder blocking a guy is definately more convincing than a Stone Cold Stunner. If Brock had shitty-looking offence, then I'd agree, but he doesn't. Every move the guy does looks BRUTAL. I don't care if he isn't a technical wizard, he just has to make it look like he kick a guy's ass. So give Albert the God Push. Or Mark henry. Hell, dig up Mabel. They can all pound on someone. Should they get the belt? Those guys are all hideously ugly. Lesnar at least has a proper haircut and tremendous build. Once again, the "look" sets him apart from other hosses.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 And look at Angle at WrestleMania X-7 after mat wrestling Benoit. That's one gassed mofo. Look what he was doing that match. There is a difference between getting gassed when you are actually doing ma wrestling and when you get gassed LIFTING A GUY UP AND WALKING TO THE BACK
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Oh, his look is fine..until you..y'know..look at his face.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 It doesn't have to be extensive (Flair, Hart) But it has to be GOOD. And since it's no longer 1987 (By my count) The Bear Hug, shoulder blocks and clotheslines can be elininated. Why don't you let a 6-something foot tall, 300+ lbs. man ram his shoulder into your gut 5 times and put you in a bearhug before you tell me that. Moves don't have to be flashy, they just need to look CONVINCING. And Brock Lesnar shoulder blocking a guy is definately more convincing than a Stone Cold Stunner. If Brock had shitty-looking offence, then I'd agree, but he doesn't. Every move the guy does looks BRUTAL. I don't care if he isn't a technical wizard, he just has to make it look like he kick a guy's ass. So give Albert the God Push. Or Mark henry. Hell, dig up Mabel. They can all pound on someone. Should they get the belt? Those guys are all hideously ugly. Lesnar at least has a proper haircut and tremendous build. Once again, the "look" sets him apart from other hosses. Oh, for Christ sakes. We're pushing guys based on their HAIR STYLE? Damnit, and just when Nowinski drops the perm, too.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 I've never even seen this alleged incident where Brock got gassed. You make it sound like it wasn't even part of a MATCH. Then again, this is from the guy who is claiming that Smackdown! got a low rating because of Brock, when it was pre-empted in major markets. Then you prove yourself to be even more insane by claiming that if people *really* wanted to see the show, they would buy a satellite dish. Not only is this argument just plain retarded, the ratings come from people with Nielsen cable boxes, not dishes.
Guest art_vandelay Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 He didn't break through the ranks at all! He was simply handed the world title! He didn't have to "struggle through" the Euro and IC belts. He just got shoved up to the top. He beat Hogan, he beat The Rock, he won the title after being given his first shot. If that's not breaking through then I don't know what is. Having him hold the Euro or IC would simply slow down his rise to the top, not to mention fuck up guys like RVD.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Oh, wow. He beat up Hogan..the biggest legend in the buisness..and The Rock..the most popular man in wrestling. Wow. Who WOULDN'T get over by doing that? Making the two guys that usually run over the rest of the roster is a surefire way to go. Oh, yeah. That makes Lesnar really special.
Guest art_vandelay Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 It doesn't have to be extensive (Flair, Hart) But it has to be GOOD. And since it's no longer 1987 (By my count) The Bear Hug, shoulder blocks and clotheslines can be elininated. Why don't you let a 6-something foot tall, 300+ lbs. man ram his shoulder into your gut 5 times and put you in a bearhug before you tell me that. Moves don't have to be flashy, they just need to look CONVINCING. And Brock Lesnar shoulder blocking a guy is definately more convincing than a Stone Cold Stunner. If Brock had shitty-looking offence, then I'd agree, but he doesn't. Every move the guy does looks BRUTAL. I don't care if he isn't a technical wizard, he just has to make it look like he kick a guy's ass. So give Albert the God Push. Or Mark henry. Hell, dig up Mabel. They can all pound on someone. Should they get the belt? Those guys are all hideously ugly. Lesnar at least has a proper haircut and tremendous build. Once again, the "look" sets him apart from other hosses. Oh, for Christ sakes. We're pushing guys based on their HAIR STYLE? Damnit, and just when Nowinski drops the perm, too. You're belittling my point. It's the entire look that matters, hair is only a part of it.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 I've never even seen this alleged incident where Brock got gassed. You make it sound like it wasn't even part of a MATCH. A Match between Mark Henry and Kurt Angle...
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 It wasn't even a match. Lesnar walked out there, F5'ed Henry, and went to the back, as I remember.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 You can't win with El Psycho Diablo. If the WWE sees something in you and pushes you to the moon, you didn't earn it. The only other option is being stuck in mid-card Hell with all of the other guys that the WWE is afraid to pull the trigger on. I'm glad for Brock. He's been given the ball and he's running with it.
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 It doesn't have to be extensive (Flair, Hart) But it has to be GOOD. And since it's no longer 1987 (By my count) The Bear Hug, shoulder blocks and clotheslines can be elininated. Why don't you let a 6-something foot tall, 300+ lbs. man ram his shoulder into your gut 5 times and put you in a bearhug before you tell me that. Moves don't have to be flashy, they just need to look CONVINCING. And Brock Lesnar shoulder blocking a guy is definately more convincing than a Stone Cold Stunner. If Brock had shitty-looking offence, then I'd agree, but he doesn't. Every move the guy does looks BRUTAL. I don't care if he isn't a technical wizard, he just has to make it look like he kick a guy's ass. So give Albert the God Push. Or Mark henry. Hell, dig up Mabel. They can all pound on someone. Should they get the belt? Those guys are all hideously ugly. Lesnar at least has a proper haircut and tremendous build. Once again, the "look" sets him apart from other hosses. Oh, for Christ sakes. We're pushing guys based on their HAIR STYLE? Damnit, and just when Nowinski drops the perm, too. You're belittling my point. It's the entire look that matters, hair is only a part of it. Yeah, Mark Henry doesn't Look like a Big scary ass Black man. My imagination again. Besides, that hair JUST WON'T DO!
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Who cares about the hair? Brock is a BEAST~!
Guest Anglesault Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 You can't win with El Psycho Diablo. If the WWE sees something in you and pushes you to the moon, you didn't earn it. The only other option is being stuck in mid-card Hell with all of the other guys that the WWE is afraid to pull the trigger on. I'm glad for Brock. He's been given the ball and he's running with it. Because I don't belive in pushing guys based on their look. You do that, you wind up with a failure like Lesnar.
Guest art_vandelay Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 Oh, wow. He beat up Hogan..the biggest legend in the buisness..and The Rock..the most popular man in wrestling. Wow. Who WOULDN'T get over by doing that? Making the two guys that usually run over the rest of the roster is a surefire way to go. Oh, yeah. That makes Lesnar really special. You're onto the whole "deserving" honour system thing. I'm stating that the WWE has this guy who looks like a million bucks in developmental, and has legit credentials as an Am-wrestler to boot. They plan on bringing someone like him in the most effective way possible, as a guy who can't be stopped. The coup de grace of the push is the guy winning the title. It's a neccessary thing to do for this push to succeed.
Guest RazorxEDGE Posted September 7, 2002 Report Posted September 7, 2002 You're on your own, vandelay...it's obvious that these guys are Brock-hating for the sake of Brock-hating, and I got better things to do...like do bicep curls with the RAW set. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! Note to Anglesault: You can't call Brock a "failure". He hasn't held the belt long enough. Come back in a few months.
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