Another Theory I Have on Brock

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

That's exactly my point. LESNAR DIDN'T EARN THE TITLE.

 

He came in, beat up the Hardys, Rikishi, RVD, and assorted midcarders. When that and winning the KotR failed to work, they fed him Hogan. Then fed him Rock. He didn't earn it. He just got put over a lot of guys, and handed the world title.

 

Lesnar's no different from Goldberg (who at least built up heat first). He's the reincarnation of the Ultimate fucking Warrior, almost. Good look, so here, here's a world title.

 

He didn't -earn- it. There's nothing special about him. He's big. That's as far as it goes. He's the EXACT SAME THING as every other Hoss on the Roster, except for the fact he's an NCAA champion. That means exactly crap.

 

Go ahead. Keep no-selling the arguments. The fact is, he dosen't deserve the damn belt. There are what, five other guys who should have had it before him, and who all at one time were WAY more over than Lesnar. Despite the hype the WWE spoon-feeds their fans, Lesnar is NOT special. He's yet another Vanilla Big Man with no character, no personality, and no visible talent. Without Heyman, he's going to be sunk.

[Guest art_vandelay]

It doesn't have to be extensive (Flair, Hart) But it has to be GOOD. And since it's no longer 1987 (By my count) The Bear Hug, shoulder blocks and clotheslines can be elininated.

 

Why don't you let a 6-something foot tall, 300+ lbs. man ram his shoulder into your gut 5 times and put you in a bearhug before you tell me that. Moves don't have to be flashy, they just need to look CONVINCING. And Brock Lesnar shoulder blocking a guy is definately more convincing than a Stone Cold Stunner.

 

If Brock had shitty-looking offence, then I'd agree, but he doesn't. Every move the guy does looks BRUTAL. I don't care if he isn't a technical wizard, he just has to make it look like he kick a guy's ass.

So give Albert the God Push. Or Mark henry. Hell, dig up Mabel. They can all pound on someone. Should they get the belt?

Those guys are all hideously ugly. Lesnar at least has a proper haircut and tremendous build. Once again, the "look" sets him apart from other hosses.

Oh, for Christ sakes. We're pushing guys based on their HAIR STYLE? Damnit, and just when Nowinski drops the perm, too.

You're belittling my point. It's the entire look that matters, hair is only a part of it.

Yeah, Mark Henry doesn't Look like a Big scary ass Black man. My imagination again.

 

Besides, that hair JUST WON'T DO!

Oh yes, there's that signature Anglesault wit I've been holding out for this entire thread. That's good.

 

Mark Henry doesn't look scary. Now if he walked up to me in a dark alley, then you can bet I'd be scared. But in the company of men who look just like, or not very different from him, he's not scary at ALL. Those blue tights and the whole desperate sex addict thing didn't help either.

[Guest Anglesault]

Who cares about the hair?

 

Brock is a BEAST~!

Speaking of, do you think Bam Bam Bigelow should have gotten the belt just because he's a scary looking human being?

 

Do the head tattoos meet the hair requirement for a title push?

 

You're onto the whole "deserving" honour system thing. I'm stating that the WWE has this guy who looks like a million bucks in developmental, and has legit credentials as an Am-wrestler to boot. They plan on bringing someone like him in the most effective way possible, as a guy who can't be stopped. The coup de grace of the push is the guy winning the title. It's a neccessary thing to do for this push to succeed.

 

I'm sure that's got to be GREAT for morale.

 

"Well, uhm, Chris benoit, I know you've been in the business for a long ass time and always put on good matches, but Brock here looks scary, and he has hair that really lights up the party scene, so we're going to push him over you. Oh, here's this meaningless secondary belt. Do something with it."

 

Benoit must have LOOOVED that.

 

Or Angle, considering that Austin is gone, Angle is the only guy in the company who was able to stay and put on great matches all year long last year. This year, as a reward, Brock and his PARTY HAIR~! get the push while Angle does nothing.

[Guest art_vandelay]

That's exactly my point. LESNAR DIDN'T EARN THE TITLE.

 

He came in, beat up the Hardys, Rikishi, RVD, and assorted midcarders. When that and winning the KotR failed to work, they fed him Hogan. Then fed him Rock. He didn't earn it. He just got put over a lot of guys, and handed the world title.

 

Lesnar's no different from Goldberg (who at least built up heat first). He's the reincarnation of the Ultimate fucking Warrior, almost. Good look, so here, here's a world title.

 

He didn't -earn- it. There's nothing special about him. He's big. That's as far as it goes. He's the EXACT SAME THING as every other Hoss on the Roster, except for the fact he's an NCAA champion. That means exactly crap.

 

Go ahead. Keep no-selling the arguments. The fact is, he dosen't deserve the damn belt. There are what, five other guys who should have had it before him, and who all at one time were WAY more over than Lesnar. Despite the hype the WWE spoon-feeds their fans, Lesnar is NOT special. He's yet another Vanilla Big Man with no character, no personality, and no visible talent. Without Heyman, he's going to be sunk.

What the fuck does the title mean anyway? It's just a prop which gives the holder one more thing to add to his list of credentials. Who cares if he didn't "earn" it. Well maybe him actually holding the title will eventually lead to him being deserving. You're missing my point. They needed to give Lesnar the title in order to cement the push. If he didn't win the title, his reputation as the unstoppable monster would be tarnished. There's no other way to do it. So what if he's the next Goldberg or Warrior, didnt' they provide their respective companies with success? If you don't see talent in someone like Lesnar then I don't even know why I should argue with you. You are clearly blind.

[Guest art_vandelay]

You're onto the whole "deserving" honour system thing. I'm stating that the WWE has this guy who looks like a million bucks in developmental, and has legit credentials as an Am-wrestler to boot. They plan on bringing someone like him in the most effective way possible, as a guy who can't be stopped. The coup de grace of the push is the guy winning the title. It's a neccessary thing to do for this push to succeed.

 

I'm sure that's got to be GREAT for morale.

 

"Well, uhm, Chris benoit, I know you've been in the business for a long ass time and always put on good matches, but Brock here looks scary, and he has hair that really lights up the party scene, so we're going to push him over you. Oh, here's this meaningless secondary belt. Do something with it."

 

Benoit must have LOOOVED that.

 

Or Angle, considering that Austin is gone, Angle is the only guy in the company who was able to stay and put on great matches all year long last year. This year, as a reward, Brock and his PARTY HAIR~! get the push while Angle does nothing.

If it's done in good intentions of the company, then fuck morale. I'm sure Benoit agrees.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

It's just more of this "You don't like it, but you will or else" nonsense the WWE likes to cram down our throats. Remember the little thing called the "King of the Ring" PPV? Remember the guy that got the chants, the pops, the cheers? Oh, yeah. RVD. That's his name. Remember the guy who got nothing at all? Lesnar. Remember what happened when Lesnar won? It was like the air had been let out of a balloon. Nobody cared that Lesnar had won. Nobody cared ABOUT him. Even a lot of the marks I know knew that Lesnar was going to get the title.

 

Now is it right to push somebody because they're liked in the office, or push somebody that's liked by the crowd..who buy tickets, merchandise, pay per views..

 

When everybody realizes what's going on, and Lesnar gets staler than he is, I hope there's a nice backlash. If he's the next Big Show, I won't shed any tears over it.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Oh. The sucess argument.

 

Yes, they did..but only for a very short period of time.

 

As compared to an Austin ,who the crowd liked before they got a big push..

 

This "initial monster unstoppable push" has NO longevity, and only winds up blowing up in the company's face. It's been that way every time it's been tried..who's blind now?

 

Once he loses, his novelty is gone. Then he's just "Brock". No character, no personality. Just "The Next Big Thing". They can't have him win forever. It'll wind up biting them in the ass more than likely.

[Guest Anglesault]

Why did the push need to be cemented? Why is Brock being pushed? Why couldn't they push one of the over guys who was on the cusp. Why are they ALL stuck in the midcard while Brock main events? Angle gave the company everything he had last year. And THIS is his reward? benoit and jericho have been putting on Good matches forever, and THIS is what they get? RVD is the most over guy in the company...And he is gonna job to HHH.

[Guest Anglesault]

You're onto the whole "deserving" honour system thing. I'm stating that the WWE has this guy who looks like a million bucks in developmental, and has legit credentials as an Am-wrestler to boot. They plan on bringing someone like him in the most effective way possible, as a guy who can't be stopped. The coup de grace of the push is the guy winning the title. It's a neccessary thing to do for this push to succeed.

 

I'm sure that's got to be GREAT for morale.

 

"Well, uhm, Chris benoit, I know you've been in the business for a long ass time and always put on good matches, but Brock here looks scary, and he has hair that really lights up the party scene, so we're going to push him over you. Oh, here's this meaningless secondary belt. Do something with it."

 

Benoit must have LOOOVED that.

 

Or Angle, considering that Austin is gone, Angle is the only guy in the company who was able to stay and put on great matches all year long last year. This year, as a reward, Brock and his PARTY HAIR~! get the push while Angle does nothing.

If it's done in good intentions of the company, then fuck morale. I'm sure Benoit agrees.

If the Morale sucks, the matches will suck, the shows will suck, and the company will suck...

[Guest art_vandelay]

You can't win with El Psycho Diablo. If the WWE sees something in you and pushes you to the moon, you didn't earn it.

 

The only other option is being stuck in mid-card Hell with all of the other guys that the WWE is afraid to pull the trigger on.

 

I'm glad for Brock. He's been given the ball and he's running with it.

Because I don't belive in pushing guys based on their look. You do that, you wind up with a failure like Lesnar.

For the last time, it's not solely on his look. The guy didn't get a contract just because he's a bodybuilder.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

He sure as hell hasn't shown much in-ring talent. 90% of the guys on the roster can do what he's doing now, and a lot of them..better.

[Guest Anglesault]

You can't win with El Psycho Diablo. If the WWE sees something in you and pushes you to the moon, you didn't earn it.

 

The only other option is being stuck in mid-card Hell with all of the other guys that the WWE is afraid to pull the trigger on.

 

I'm glad for Brock. He's been given the ball and he's running with it.

Because I don't belive in pushing guys based on their look. You do that, you wind up with a failure like Lesnar.

For the last time, it's not solely on his look. The guy didn't get a contract just because he's a bodybuilder.

And his perfect hair.

 

Then why is he being pushed? The am-wrestling skills he DOESN'T SHOW?

[Guest art_vandelay]

Once he loses, his novelty is gone. Then he's just "Brock". No character, no personality. Just "The Next Big Thing". They can't have him win forever. It'll wind up biting them in the ass more than likely.

Well, there you might have a point. We've seen it before with Yokozuna and others. But still, even Yoko provided a great heel during that period of time. Hopefully they'll figure out a way to prevent that from happening this time around.

 

Why did the push need to be cemented? Why is Brock being pushed? Why couldn't they push one of the over guys who was on the cusp. Why are they ALL stuck in the midcard while Brock main events? Angle gave the company everything he had last year. And THIS is his reward? benoit and jericho have been putting on Good matches forever, and THIS is what they get? RVD is the most over guy in the company...And he is gonna job to HHH.

 

All this has been previously addressed. The best way for an angle of this type to work is if they do it off the bat. Kurt Angle, IMO possesses a more prominent spot in the company than Lesnar. He doesn't need the title, in fact, he's at a place where he can elevate mid-carders to main-eventer status. That's much more important than being champ. Benoit was on the brink of a title run before his injury, which has brought him back down. Jericho already had his turn, which didn't go too well. RVD will get his turn, I predict by the end of the year.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Angle's too over and too useful to be in that position, though..(which should be HHH and Undertaker, honestly.) He's also been treated like a joke.

 

Benoit..eh. I'll leave this alone.

 

Jericho: Treated like a joke.

 

RVD: Wait and see..

 

Why should Lesnar get to be treated better than not one, but four guys?

[Guest alfdogg]

Benoit: had to job to Bubba Dudley in a table match.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

What's worse, having to job to Bubba..or knowing that both Benoit and Eddy were pinned by a glorified BUTT Drop?

[Guest alfdogg]

They're both down there.

 

At least Rikishi has had a main event feud before, though.

[Guest art_vandelay]

If the Morale sucks, the matches will suck, the shows will suck, and the company will suck...

 

The morale will not go down if things are done in the best interest of the company. All this "paying your dues" shit is only taken seriously in the IWC.

 

He sure as hell hasn't shown much in-ring talent. 90% of the guys on the roster can do what he's doing now, and a lot of them..better.

 

Please, what a crock of bullshit. You're telling me 90% of the roster can do the moves he does better than him? You're telling me 90% of the roster can sell better than him, given his size? Besides, he hasn't been given the opportunity to demonstrate much other than power.

 

And his perfect hair.

Then why is he being pushed? The am-wrestling skills he DOESN'T SHOW?

 

First, fuck you and your immaturity. God, you can annoy sometimes.

 

When the time calls for his amateur skills to show (ie. feud with Angle) then you'll see. You or I haven't seen enough of what he can do to correctly judge. I can only assume that the WWE sees something in him that we haven't seen yet to give him a push of this magnitude.

 

 

 

FUCK, I missed the first half of Oz because of this shit.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

It dosen't matter if he hasn't been given the oppertunity. He dosen't show it, he dosen't have it. There's no reason to push a guy based on what they "could" do. If they don't do it for whatever reason, then they don't do it. The moves he does are basic at best, and yes, a lot of people do them better.

 

"Paying your dues is only taken seriously in the IWC", eh? Explain the impressive debuts, and subsquent massive depushes some people get.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Angle's too over and too useful to be in that position, though..(which should be HHH and Undertaker, honestly.) He's also been treated like a joke.

 

Benoit..eh. I'll leave this alone.

 

Jericho: Treated like a joke.

 

RVD: Wait and see..

 

Why should Lesnar get to be treated better than not one, but four guys?

Because it's Lesnar's turn. When it's time for Benoit's World Title reign, Lesnar may be jobbing to Bubba, who knows. Don't get me started again on why he deserves his turn.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Good. Because he dosen't.

[Guest art_vandelay]

It dosen't matter if he hasn't been given the oppertunity. He dosen't show it, he dosen't have it. There's no reason to push a guy based on what they "could" do. If they don't do it for whatever reason, then they don't do it. The moves he does are basic at best, and yes, a lot of people do them better.

 

Not if the reason is because they're told to wrestle a certain style by the bookers? Not if the reason is to do what he's told? For the record, I don't know if management tells him to wrestle the style he does, but for my money, I'm willing to bet they do. And as for 90% of the roster doing moves better (more convincing-looking) than Lesnar, *sigh*, I have nothing to say.

 

 

"Paying your dues is only taken seriously in the IWC", eh? Explain the impressive debuts, and subsquent massive depushes some people get.

 

Allow me to clarify, paying your dues in the Tough Enough winner sense does exist. I meant that if decisions by management are made and they seem like they hurt morale, but are done for the good of the company, wrestlers will more often than not have no problems. (Bringing in the nWo, Bischoff, pushing Lesnar.)

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Just like everything else. Until I see him do it where it matters (on TV) it dosen't exist. All the talent in the world dosen't matter until it's used.

[Guest MrRant]

So... if someone here hasn't seen Rey Jr. bust out all the moves he did in WCW he should doubt his talent? Just playing devils advocate here.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Just like everything else. Until I see him do it where it matters (on TV) it dosen't exist. All the talent in the world dosen't matter until it's used.

Fine, then I have no use in trying to convince you of otherwise. Because since you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

There's quite a difference about hearing a guy's potential while seeing them do bearhugs and shoulderblocks..and hearing about a high-flying move while a guy bounces about the ring.

 

Rey's visibly shown on WWE TV that he can fly.

Brock hasn't shown that he can am-wrestle worth crap.

 

(edit) Or to put it more easily.

 

Rey does what they shill him as. A high-flying little guy.

Brock does nothing of what they shill him as. An amateur wrestling champion. When Rey busts out springboard ranas, you could possibly belive he'd pull something amazing. When Lesnar pulls shoulderblocks, he shows nothing more than what every other Hoss has done.

[Guest art_vandelay]

There's quite a difference about hearing a guy's potential while seeing them do bearhugs and shoulderblocks..and hearing about a high-flying move while a guy bounces about the ring.

Rey's visibly shown on WWE TV that he can fly.

Brock hasn't shown that he can am-wrestle worth crap.

 

So because he hasn't done it in his 6 months in the WWE, it means he can't do it, period?

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

No.

 

But when they're using it as a point to justify giving him a belt he's done nothing to deserve..the highest prize in the "sport" that some guys never attain..and that guys have literally shed blood for to get..and then have this rookie come in and have the belt handed to him..

 

My point exactly.

[Guest Nater]

Vince has never outsmarted anybody outside of something he scripted.

[Guest art_vandelay]

But when they're using it as a point to justify giving him a belt he's done nothing to deserve..the highest prize in the "sport" that some guys never attain..and that guys have literally shed blood for to get..and then have this rookie come in and have the belt handed to him.

 

They don't justify his win by that fact alone. They don't build him up solely as "a great amateur wrestler." And the only way for the push to work to its full potential IS if they hand the belt to him. I maintain that morale will not go down if the decision is made in the best interests of the company.