The one & only War On Terror thread

[Guest danielisthor]

By your logic, we don't need any allies. We don't need any friends.

Correct.

 

 

which will be why bush is oh so keen to have blair on board.

 

oh and lets not forget that the american way started with the oppression of the indigenous peoples of the north american continent. which is kind of democratic.

Blair has been at our side since 9-11. so its not like we are trying to get him on our side, he's been there all along.

 

The rest of your post doesn't deserve or dignify a reply.

[Guest Sagrada3099]

Wasn't me.

 

And the opression of native peoples started back when explorers thought that America was India, for chrissakes. You're right, it wasnt very democratic.

 

You know, considering that they weren't coming from a democratic nation.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

And the tone of this particular attack on unilateralism was false, self-serving, and stupid anyway. Of course we would like our allies to join us. It's good for PR if nothing else. The point is that we will not allow anyone to hold our actions hostage to a veto. We will not run a war by committee, and our allies do not get to vote. If you want to join us, by all means get on the train, but don't ever imagine for one instant that we'll sacrifice our war aims to cater to you.

That is what a unilateralist stance means. That is precisely what the President is doing. He's letting the world know that his goals are set and his principles are clear. They can either help us or get out of the way. And whatever they do, we'll remember.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you build an effective coalition without being hamstrung by it.

[Guest danielisthor]

I think Daniel's statement about teachers' salaries was the most pertinent one. They simply don't get paid much. And that's the average. Here in Tennessee, it's a rare sight indeed for a teacher to be making anywhere near $40,000 a year, even with a graduate degree and many years of experience. My point is thus: if they have all this power, why the hell haven't they gotten themselves more pay?

i guess the question to you is:

 

Would you give somebody a pay raise if they are failing at their job?

[Guest EricMM]

As a hopeful teacher your statements about American teachers dismays me. That may be wishy washy but I'm trying to set the tone

 

I have heard horror stories about teachers from my Grandmother's county school board. But besides that I've never really considered teachers pay that much. Probably because I come from Montgomery County which has like... the best paid teachers anywhere (I mean we have Potomic for chrissakes...)

 

But teachers are very necessary. I don't think most teachers are trying to dumb down their students. I know I had some very insightful teachers. I plan to be one.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Good luck Eric!

I had some great teachers at school, and some who didn't give a fuck.

 

In news today:

 

Ramzi Binalshibh, alledged co-ordinator of the 9/11 attacks and member of al-Qaeda, was flown out of Pakistan under US custody.

 

Also, Saudi Arabia virtually gave America permission to use its bases to attack Iraq.

[Guest danielisthor]

As a hopeful teacher your statements about American teachers dismays me.  That may be wishy washy but I'm trying to set the tone

 

I have heard horror stories about teachers from my Grandmother's county school board.  But besides that I've never really considered teachers pay that much.  Probably because I come from Montgomery County which has like... the best paid teachers anywhere (I mean we have Potomic for chrissakes...)

 

But teachers are very necessary.  I don't think most teachers are trying to dumb down their students.  I know I had some very insightful teachers.  I plan to be one.

So does my girlfriends sister. By the time she graduates in 2+ years, her starting salary in New Jersey is expected to be in the mid 40's. After 3 years she'll get tenure and her job will practically become secured for life.

 

 

I believe teachers are essential and needed and need to be paid well. my main problem is not with teachers, its their union, that does nothing to really help them, collects and distributes dues to political concerns and parties that they have no business bothering with.

 

One of the complaints in the articles is that their medical insurance went up 7% and they can't afford it because they don't get paid enough. YET the voted to increase their dues!?!?!?! WTF. How can you not afford to have medical coverage, but afford to increase your union dues?

 

My medical insurance went up around 17% from last year to this year. From $42.45 to $49.75. Single Man, no dependents. 17% My salary is slightly above the teachers average. I haven't bitched, i haven't asked for an increase to help cover that.

 

Here is my problem with teachers. If a tenth of my job failed to meet expectations, i would be fired. Teachers aren't. Teachers aren't held accountable for failure and neither are the school boards or the teachers' union that backs them.

 

 

And Eric, i wish you the greatest luck in your future profession.

[Guest danielisthor]

Good luck Eric!

I had some great teachers at school, and some who didn't give a fuck.

 

In news today:

 

Ramzi Binalshibh, alledged co-ordinator of the 9/11 attacks and member of al-Qaeda, was flown out of Pakistan under US custody.

 

Also, Saudi Arabia virtually gave America permission to use its bases to attack Iraq.

Saudi's must of realized how precarious they're power is if we ever pulled out.

 

One less evil person to worry about. hundred's of thousands to go.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

As a hopeful teacher your statements about American teachers dismays me

I've been a teacher. Like Daniel said, the problem isn't the profession, it's the unions. If we want America's children to be educated properly, they have to go. I don't mean reform, I mean destruction. Disband them. Ban them. Get rid of them. Abolish them. Eradicate them. The unions are an enemy of the children and they must be wiped out completely.

[Guest J*ingus]

Jesus wept, I give up.

 

All I know is this: my mother is a teacher. She has been since she graduated from college, long ago. She's a very smart woman, and could've easily gone into the corporate world and made money.

 

But she didn't. Why? Because she wants to help kids.

 

That's one thing your arguments are leaving out: why the hell would anybody want to do a bad job? Nobody gets into teaching with some sort of evil plan to screw up kids lives, which seems to be exactly what you're suggesting. As we've mentioned, the pay is shit. The conditions are often horrible. So what's with the conspiracy theories? Like I said, you STILL haven't answered my question about why the salary is so terrible.

 

My mom has been physically attacked by students on several occasions, and has sometimes had the idiot parents threaten to sue her after their mongoloid kid got punished for it. The school board wouldn't have stood up for her; any time there's a possibility of legal action, the administration will throw the teacher to the fucking wolves, right or wrong be damned. I've seen it happen. (Did you know that, in this state at least, it's illegal for union members to go on strike? Name me ONE other union which lacks that power.)

 

Thankfully, mom has been in the private sector for a little while now. But the last time she worked for a public school, a mere two years ago, she was most certainly NOT paid that $40K "average". In the single wealthiest county in the entire state. And she has a master's degree from Vanderbilt's Peabody School (widely recognized as one of the best in the world in education) and twenty-five years of experience.

 

To put it bluntly, she got assfucked with no vaseline for decades. All for wanting to help children. Me and my brother did without, because of her lifelong commitment. So excuse me if I get just a little pissed at someone shitting all over my her desires and my family by saying that her, and people like her, are responsible for "the dumbing of America".

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Your blindly emotional rant changes nothing. Your mother may be the finest teacher on earth, and she may have done immeasurable good for countless people. No one is attacking her. No one is attacking the importance of her profession. No one is saying teachers should have to live on a starvation-level salary.

 

What Daniel and I are saying and what we have been saying all along is that first of all, public school teachers' salaries are NOT tied to performance as they should be, the pay is NOT bad in view of the fact that almost zero qualifications are required, and the UNIONS (please read that word carefully, since you seem to have missed it repeatedly in previous posts) do NOT have the children's interests at heart NO MATTER how caring, hardworking, and dedicated individual teachers may be.

 

What, you think I've never had a good teacher? You think I hate the people whose job it is to educate children? Why in God's name would I? And listen, I've done the same goddamn job as your mom, not for nearly as long but the same fucking thing in a fucking public school, so don't you dare imply that I don't understand the importance of the job or the dedication doing it properly involves or the scant rewards it offers.

 

It is the UNIONS (once again, note that I am NOT talking about individual teachers) which screw the children over by refusing to open up the job market. With her qualifications your mom should have been making a six-figure salary and if I had my way she would be, because good teachers would be in demand and experience and degrees would actually mean something.

 

Both Daniel and I have explained over and over again why teachers' UNIONS don't want good, competitive teachers to be rewarded for the excellence of their performance. We have made this clear and Daniel has used FACTS and the UNIONS' OWN BLOODY WORDS to demonstrate this absolutely. And I HAVE addressed your question about salary:

 

THE JOB MARKET FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS IS NOT COMPETITIVE.

 

I hope my fucking typing was legible that time.

 

And of course a school administration will throw an individual teacher to the wolves at the drop of a hat. Of course. Have you read one word anyone else in this debate has written? The unions are NOT concerned about individual teachers, they are NOT concerned about educating children, and they are CERTAINLY NOT concerned about questions of right and wrong. They are in the game as a political group and they act to preserve their power. You expect them to fight legal battles on behalf of individual members? How naive. They don't have the time for that. They're in the Capitol, scaring the shit out of Congressmen and the DNC. One teacher? They can't even see her.

 

As for not having the power to strike, cry me a fucking river please. Why the fuck SHOULD teachers have the power to strike, thus disrupting thousands if not millions of young lives?

 

Get your head out of your ass, stop fucking crying, and try to think logically for a moment. I like you, but Christ on a goddamn rubber crutch, the world doesn't revolve around you and your problems. So what if your family suffered? Millions of teachers and their families suffer every day, and it changes nothing in the argument. The UNIONS are assfucking ALL the good ones in order to maintain their hold on power.

[Guest danielisthor]

Teaching is a noble profession, same as firefighters and police officers. You do it because you have strong convictions to help, protect or educate your fellow man. Anybody who goes into these professions, thinking they are going to make a ton of money are disillusioned.

 

I feel for your mother and she probably did her profession proud and i hope Eric and my girlfriend's sister do as well, but on par, they are making the same amount of money as the normal joe blowsin America does. The fact that their union is stabbing them in the back is not my problem until my taxes go up to cover the expense and then i'm going to use my right to free speech to voice my displeasure.

 

I don't complain that my step-father was a correctional officer in Broward County, Fl. (that's the Ft. Lauderdale area), my mother had odd jobs to help cover bills and was feeding a family of 6 on less than 30 grand a year. There was no union for him, to help get his pay up, There was no union there when he got sick and they put him disability and then let him go straight out. He went got a new job, and got paid twice what he was before and life got a tad bit better for us. My mom went back to school, became a nurse's assistant, life got even better.

 

There are choices that everybody makes in life. Your mom should be commended for her service. But what i am getting out of all of this is just strict anger from your part. I am not sure who you are trying to blame, but i sense some hostility on your part torwards your mother for having this job and making you and your sibling "do without" all those years.

[Guest J*ingus]

I still disagree with some of what you say, but I doubt any of us can the others' minds, so I'll let it rest. Sorry if I got a bit heated.

[Guest DARRYLXWF]

As a hopeful teacher your statements about American teachers dismays me

I've been a teacher. Like Daniel said, the problem isn't the profession, it's the unions. If we want America's children to be educated properly, they have to go. I don't mean reform, I mean destruction. Disband them. Ban them. Get rid of them. Abolish them. Eradicate them. The unions are an enemy of the children and they must be wiped out completely.

I feel like that way here in Australia, but banning them would be an extremely undemocratic thing to do, and I don't know about the US, but it wouldn't go down too well in here.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I'd like to ban all unions entirely, but there's that pesky freedom of association thing.

[Guest Kingpk]

Looks like Iraq finally takes the hint.

 

Iraq OKs Inspectors

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

I just found that out and was a little surprised. I didn't really expect them to let the inspectors in.

[Guest B-X]

I think Bush just dumped his pants.

 

He'll find a reason to attack anyway. Far too much money to be lost if this conflict doesnt happen.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

0% chance Bush, or Marney, cares that Saddam is now giving into the demands. Now, we just look like asses in front of the world if we attack... which was probably gonna be the case anyway.

[Guest DeputyHawk]

they had to know this was going to happen. hussein is stalling for time while he loads up his donkeys with all the WMDs and sends them off to hide in the desert. what happens now? america are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Saddam isn't giving into anything. He'll just let a weak inspection grew into certain areas, and place his weapons in Mosque where he'll forbid inspectors from going.

 

He's pulled this before why in the hell would it be different this time.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The terms are "unrestricted", which means mosques too.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Hey, sigh of relief from me, why fight a war when we don't have to?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

DH, Vern, and Outcast are correct (partially correct, in Outcast's case). We knew this was coming, we fully expected it all along, and we don't care. It's too little, and ten years, several billion dollars, tens of thousands of lives and litres upon litres of anthrax too late.

 

The White House is not interested in inspections. We are interested in one thing and one thing only: disarming Iraq and making Iraq comply fully with all other UN resolutions as well. Iraq's offer is nothing but a tactical step taken to offset the likelihood of strong UN action (which is sort of an oxymoron anyway).

[Guest DARRYLXWF]

Let's us use the example of the Gulf War. Iraq invaded Kuwait. So America and the UN gain back control of that land. Now answer me this, who did they put in a leader of the Kuwait?

 

Unsure, well it was the Kuwaiti dictator, who has some of the worst human rights records in the history of the world especially over women's rights. All stories about what they Iraq did while in Kuwait have been proven false. Tell me Andrew is that liberating?

 

This was posted in another forum, but I think Marney will probably do a better job at kicking this guy's ass than me (verbally that is). Seriously, this stuff REALLY shits me up the wall.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

If I'm going to be a hitwoman, I want to be paid.

[Guest DeputyHawk]

This was posted in another forum, but I think Marney will probably do a better job at kicking this guy's ass than me (verbally that is). Seriously, this stuff REALLY shits me up the wall.

jesus, can people stop doing stuff like this? yes, marney's an intelligent, confrontational and entertaining poster, but geez enough with the worship already. if you've got an opinion, air it intelligently yourself - don't wait for someone else to do so like a little fanboy.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

have you seen the poster with 'Marney is God' in his/her signature?

[Guest danielisthor]

have you seen the poster with 'Marney is God' in his/her signature?

That would be mine and i don't have a need for Marney to post rebuttles for me or attack idiot post *note i didn't say posters, though sometimes they are*. i do very well on my own.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Fair enough...I just found it a little sycophantic.