Guest Big Poppa Popick Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Err I just wanted to correct one thing Dopey said Umm, Christianity if you accept it is not the only true religion in the world You're forgetting the Jews...and as far as I know, we don't really conflict with them religiously So there's in fact...two just clearing that up thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted January 16, 2003 there's no such thing as one true religion. that is all...go back to boring me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Err I just wanted to correct one thing Dopey said Umm, Christianity if you accept it is not the only true religion in the world You're forgetting the Jews...and as far as I know, we don't really conflict with them religiously So there's in fact...two just clearing that up thank you Big Poppa, I don't have too much time right now, but if you read Romans and Galatians, you see that us gentiles are the 'wild olive tree' grafted in among them. See Romans chapter 11 for quick study. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 there's no such thing as one true religion. that is all...go back to boring me. "Jesus said to him, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." John 14:6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Samurai_Goat Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Here's something I wonder about. Let's say God tempts you to do something sinful. Yes, yes, it does say God isn't tempted by evil, so God won't tempt any people, but, hey, God tempted Abraham in Genisis 22:1, and last time I checked, Abraham should be a person. Anyway, God tempts somebody. But God is the all powerful, all knowing, all seeing divine dude. So, God would know beforehand whether you would give into temptation. Is it really your fault if you give in at that time? I mean, that's major entrapment here. (And if this makes no sense, tell me. I had to do a bunch of tests at the doctors, and I'm a bit woozy at the time. So I apologize.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Yeah and I said: "Religions all suck, so they're all equaly true" David 14:69 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Samurai, the tempted in Gen. 22:1 should be translated tested. Most of your modern translations will render the word tested. I have the New King James and that is the way it is translated. The Hebrew word is 'hon' or transliterated 'now-saw'. It means: To test, try, prove, put to the proof or test. God tested Abraham, and Abraham passed the test. It is an awesome study when you see the big picture. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son!!! Do you see the connection between God the Father and Abraham? No, Adam was not set up. Adam was perfect and could have passed a simple test by not eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. YOU would fail every time!!! But Adam was perfect and without sin, and was able not to sin. He willingly chose to rebel against God and ate of the forbiden fruit. There was NO entrapment. Adam was a dirt-bag!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Samurai_Goat Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Wait, my knoledge of the bible is admittedly shaky at best, but I know that a person can't be perfect and a dirtbag at the same time. And if he isn't able to sin, and then he rebelled against God, that would mean that rebelling against God isn't a sin, right? So what's the problem? Cheese pizza, everybody, My place. Let's just drown our misery, or relgion, or...toenails for all I care, I just need to lose this freakin' pizza, it's been here too long! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted January 16, 2003 God tested Abraham, and Abraham passed the test. It is an awesome study when you see the big picture. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son!!! Do you see the connection between God the Father and Abraham? I've always wondered about this story. I know the idea is that man should always obey god, and I understand that Abraham passed that test and was rewarded, but...yikes. Killing your own son? Personally, if I were in a position to make such decisions, and I told a man to kill his own son, and he was going to go along with it...well, I'd be embarrassed for the stupidity and mutability of my creation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Samurai_Goat Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Yea, if I was God, I'd want my creations to question anything. I'd want to make someone who would look up at me, after I tell him to kill his own son, and go "What are you, God? Fucking stupid?" I'd so reward that guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted January 16, 2003 He would get a ready and willing harem of wives, all of whom he could turn into pillars of salt if they neglected their baking and sponge-bathing duties. Ah, omnipotence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Wait, my knoledge of the bible is admittedly shaky at best, but I know that a person can't be perfect and a dirtbag at the same time. And if he isn't able to sin, and then he rebelled against God, that would mean that rebelling against God isn't a sin, right? So what's the problem? Cheese pizza, everybody, My place. Let's just drown our misery, or relgion, or...toenails for all I care, I just need to lose this freakin' pizza, it's been here too long! Adam was not a Dirtbag before he sinned. He was a Dirtbag after he sinned. Adam was perfect and sinless. He was able Not to sin, and able To sin. We are sinful and not able Not to sin. Adam, was perfect and sinless and still rebelled against the Word of God. He had the ability to sin and did so. Hence, plunging all mankind into sin!!! This is the doctrine of Original sin. ---------------------------------------------------------- Abraham is called the father of Faith! If you read about the test God gave him, it was an awesome display of faith!!! "Then he said, "Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?" Then Abraham said, "My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering." God provided that day, and then a few thousand years latter He provided JESUS!!! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!! <<<--- --->>> busts a move Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted January 16, 2003 1. The priest is not needed for God's forgiveness. God's forgiveness can come from prayer, confession, etc. But he is needed for the Sacrement of Confession which is a very special way to ask God's forgiveness. A sacrament is a visable sign of God's invisible grace. it's just a TYPE of forgiveness which we hold very dear as Catholics. Mr.Zsasz, this is the over the top one. How do you see this passage of scripture? "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 I ask out of curiousity, I am not trying to start a Protestant vs. Roman Catholic mini-war. All brothers in Christ should stick together. Granted, I am protestant to the tenth power, but I see no reason to fight it out to the death. If we disagree on something, well then we do. We can agree to disagree on certain issues, and still be brothers in the Lord. But I would like your take on the 1 John passage. I personally believe that the sacrement of Reconcilation is one of the most benefical things a man can do. Really, it's nothing more than telling God your sins, and having the priest give you personal advice on how NOT to screw up again. Once you both leave, that sin is forgotten by God, as if you born anew. There is nothing in Catholic tradition that says that the sacrement is the ONLY way to have your sin forgiven, but I tell you now Dopey it is a very powerful feeling. As I said before, you can pray for forgiveness Reconcilation is simply a very special way to recieve forgiveness not the ONLY way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Mr.Zsasz, good answer. Well thought out, and clear. Ok, now: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. ... In Him aslo we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the councel of His will," Ephesians 1:3-6, 11 I'd love to hear your take on this very deep passage of scripture. Take as much time as you need. This is very deep, I hope it doesn't hurt your head. Even though it is extremly awesome, it still hurts my head sometimes!!! But I do love the deep waters of the Word of God!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kibagami Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Every time I start to hope that you might be a gimmick poster, you post something painful enough to dash that hope. Every time you post, Baby Jesus cries because it makes God kill a kitten. K. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 16, 2003 You know, there was a Mormon dude a couple years ago that thought God was testing him like Abraham and he stabbed his fucking baby with a butcher knife. It was sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Old Me Report post Posted January 16, 2003 OH COME ON!! I make a classic quip and you NO SELL IT?!? bastards. I think someone beat you to it. But I really AM God Well then, in that case, they are bastards! anyone who worships Nirvana as I must be god like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 16, 2003 You know, there was a Mormon dude a couple years ago that thought God was testing him like Abraham and he stabbed his fucking baby with a butcher knife. It was sick. Mormons are actually considered a cult by most Christians. From what research I've done into the deeper levels of their doctrine, they stray from the basic principles of who the Father is, who Jesus is, and who Holy Spirit is. Very interesting stuff, their doctrine. VERY wrong by Christian doctrine, I should point out. I've been researching it heavily the last few days, actually, which is part of the reason I said I was burned out a few posts back. Not that I'm saying what that guy did is excusable by Mormon standards, as I'm sure it most certainly was not. I'm sure the Mormon church was very unhappy with his actions as much as any other sane person would be. But I did want to point out that there's a distinction between Christian/Catholic doctrine and Mormon doctrine. As well as between Christian/Catholic and Jehova's Witness doctrine as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Oh yeah, I know it's not the same. Mormon doctrine is interesting. I probably know more about that than I do Christian doctrine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 16, 2003 I've come into quite a bit of knowledge with it. The deeper I go, the more tangled it gets. While not confusing exactly, there's a few surprises in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ram Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Dopey is actively turning me towards athiestism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Mormons are actually considered a cult by most Christians. Indeed. And by former-Catholics-turned-atheists, too, I might add. I have an aunt and uncle who are Mormons, and I try to avoid them whenever I can. The whole problem with the Mormons is the Book of Mormon/Book of the Dead/Book of Coming Forth By Day, or whatever else they might be calling it now. Supposedly, it's the fifth Gospel, available for translation only by the Mormons. How lucky they must be. Besides, the difference between "Mormon" and "moron" is one letter, and that's too close for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big Poppa Popick Report post Posted January 16, 2003 I can echo the sentiments about Mormons...and thats from a protestantized catholic. And yes Dopey, I know Roman Chp. 11. You could've just said "Yeah BPP, you're right" instead of being all like high and mighty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 Dopey is actively turning me towards athiestism. "The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork." Psalm 19:1 "Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying,"Teacher, we want a sign from you." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. The Queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here." Matthew 12:38-42 Ram, before God created the world, He already had a plan of salvation. Seeing that "From everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Ps. 90:2), God is in the future as well as in the past. The 'fishbowl' of the universe, as I like to call it; this fishbowl that we are living in is bound by the four dimensions. We, Ram, are bound by TIME; God is not!!! Yes! He knew that man would rebel and sin against Him. Did He still create us? Yes! Why? For His pleasure (Eph. 1:5; Rev. 4:11). That's it. God just felt like creating everything that you see. Knowing full well that we would be rebelous and sinful. Therefore, He made a plan of salvation, before He created the world. From Adam, to Abraham, to Jacob/Israel, to Judah, to David, all the way to the virgin birth of JESUS CHRIST in the town of Bethlehem of Judea. And then the crucifixtion, death, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. And one day He will come back to this earth to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords, for 1,000 years. After this 1,000 year reign, He will destroy all evil, and make all things new. God is going to make a new heaven and a new earth. All those who believe in Christ Jesus the Lord, will be with Him forever and ever. Those who do not, will perish in the everlasting lake of fire, prepared for lucifer and his angels. That's the bible in a nutshell. Maybe this will help to clear some things up. I know it is really brief, but whatever I left out, just ask and I'll try and fill in. May God bless you this day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 16, 2003 I can echo the sentiments about Mormons...and thats from a protestantized catholic. And yes Dopey, I know Roman Chp. 11. You could've just said "Yeah BPP, you're right" instead of being all like high and mighty BPP, my apologies. Sorry if you got hit with some friendly fire, I must've got some wires crossed. I am usualy dealing with so much hatred and flaming and bad doctrine that I sometimes just shot-gun blast something off-the-cuff. If you are a true brother in the Lord, I am truly sorry, and I mean no offence. "Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven." Matt. 18:21-22 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Samurai_Goat Report post Posted January 16, 2003 "All those who believe in Christ Jesus the Lord, will be with Him forever and ever. Those who do not, will perish in the everlasting lake of fire, prepared for lucifer and his angels." I'd really like to believe that God would have the wisdom to see beyond "Either you're with me or against me" type thinking. I mean, I have a dog, and if that dog disobeys me, I don't set him on fire. The dog might not understand what he did wrong. What you're saying is the equivalent of letting the dog pee on the floor for five years, then decapitating him with an axe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 16, 2003 The issue is that God can't allow the sinful being into Heaven. He doesn't want anyone to go to Hell, but some will go along the designated path to get cleaned up and some will ignore it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 16, 2003 God should have made more than one Hell. A good Hell and a bad Hell. You can imagine why. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big Poppa Popick Report post Posted January 16, 2003 apology accepted Dopey, that got you a +1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted January 17, 2003 What you're saying is the equivalent of letting the dog pee on the floor for five years, then decapitating him with an axe. Something hilarious about that line........especially the "decapitating with an axe" bit.....hahahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
